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787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:11 pm

Here is the continuation of the previous discussion:

787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 32 (by bnatraveler Aug 11 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Enjoy  

Ben Soriano
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WarpSpeed
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:34 pm

From the end of the previous thread:

United 787

As always, thank you to All Things 787 (NYC777) and others for the information that is summarized here.

DELIVERED TO DATE: 184 Aircraft to 24 Airlines & 4 VIPs – 181 787-8 & 3 787-9

DELIVERIES PRIOR TO AUGUST: 170
787-8 NH-28; AI-16; JL-15; QR-14; UA–11; CZ-10; HU-8; ET-8; DY-7; BA-7; LO-6; LA-6; BY-6; AM-5; JQ-5; BI-4; VIP-3; KQ-3; AC-3; TB-1; OR-1; TG-1
787-9 NZ-1; NH-1

AUGUST DELIVERIES FINAL: 13
L/N 196 - ET-ARE – 8/1/2014 - ET #9 – 787-8
L/N 199 - JA831A – 8/3/2014 - NH #30 – 787-8
L/N 195 - CC-BBG – 8/4/2014 - LA #7 – 787-8
L/N 193 – HZ-MF8 – 8/8/2014 – VIP #4 – 787-8 - Saudi Ministry of Finance (BBJ)
L/N 200 – VH-VKH – 8/14/2014 - JQ #6 – 787-8
L/N 203 - JA832A – 8/14/2013- NH #31 – 787-8
L/N 197 – G-ZBJH – 8/15/2014 - BA #8 – 787-8
L/N 206 - JA834A – 8/20/2014 - NH #32 – 787-8
L/N 204 – 5Y-KZD – 8/22/2014 - KQ #4 – 787-8
L/N 189 – VH-VKG – 8/24/2014 - JQ #7 – 787-8
L/N 194 – JY-BAA – 8/26/2014 – RJ #1 – 787-8
L/N 188 - A7-BCO – 8/28/2014 - QR #15 – 787-8
L/N 201 – B-2768 – 8/29/2014 – MF #1 – 787-8

SEPTEMBER DELIVERIES TO DATE: 1
L/N 181 – N38950 – 9/2/2014 - UA #12 – 787-9

ON THE FLIGHTLINE - AIRCRAFT THAT HAVE COMPLETED MAJOR ASSEMBLY & CHANGE INCORPORATION*
L/N 205 - CC-BBH – ZA543 - LA #8 – 787-8
L/N 209 – HS-TQB - ZA589 – TG #2 – 787-8 – (ILFC)
L/N 212 – 5Y-KZE – ZA659 - KQ #5 – 787-8 (Charleston)
L/N 208 - VT-ANR – ZA246 - AI #17 – 787-8 (Charleston)
L/N 207 - A7-BCP – ZA475 - QR #16 – 787-8
L/N 220 – C-GHPV – ZA613 – AC #4 – 787-8 - (Charleston)
L/N 216 - ET-ARF – ZA269 - ET #10 – 787-8 (Charleston)
L/N 224 – 5Y-KZF – ZA660 - KQ #6 – 787-8 (Charleston)
L/N 202 - JA833A – ZB198 - NH #33 – 787-9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 210 - CC-BBI – ZA544 - LA #9 – 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 211 – 4K??? – ZA740 – J2 #1 – 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 213 – ZK-NZF – ZB004 - NZ #2 – 787-9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 214 – JY-BAB – ZA566 – RJ #2 – 787-8 – (ILFC) Awaiting first flight
L/N 215 - A7-BCQ – ZA476 - QR #17 – 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 217 – N780AV – ZA665 - AV #1 – 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 218 – G-VNEW – ZB027 - VS #1 – 787-9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 219 – JY-BAC – ZA715 – RJ #3 – 787-8 – (CIT Leasing) Awaiting first flight
L/N 221 – JY-BAE – ZA716 – RJ #4 – 787-8 – (CIT Leasing) Awaiting first flight
L/N 222 – JA837J – ZA195 – JL #17 - 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 223 – N19951 – ZB168 - UA #14 – 787-9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 225 - A7-BNR – ZA477 - QR #18 – 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 227 – B-2769 – ZA681 – MF #2 – 787-8 (Charleston) Awaiting first flight
L/N 228 – N781AV – ZA666 - AV #2 – 787-8 Awaiting first flight
L/N 226 – HS-TQC - ZA590 – TG #3 – 787-8 – (ILFC) Awaiting first flight

*Not including the delivered aircraft and test aircraft (ZA001-006 & ZB001-002 & 021)
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hkcanadaexpat
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:18 am

Next up...

Deliveries:
> 5Y-KZE (Kenyan Airways #5) (@ Charleston)
> HS-TQB (ILFC #14/Thai Airways #2) [EIS: 20-Sep]
> CC-BBH (LAN Airlines #8) [EIS: 23-Sep]

First Flights:
> CC-BBI (LAN Airlines #9)
> ZK-NZF (Air New Zealand #2)
> N780AV (Avianca #1)
> JA-833A (All Nippon Airways #33)
> JY-BAB (ILFC #15/Royal Jordanian #2)
> B-2769 (Xiamen Airlines #2) (@ Charleston)

FAL Rollout:
> C-GHPX (Air Canada #5) (@ Charleston)
> JA-838J (Japan Airlines #17)
> A6-BGA (Etihad Airways #1)

Cheers
A
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:07 am

I am a bit confused, Are Etihads 787s going to be A6-BG_ or A6-BL_? The All things 787 spreadsheet says A6-BL_ but planespotters and hkcanadaexpat say:

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 2):
> A6-BGA (Etihad Airways #1)
319 320 A20N 321 332/3 346 359 388 737/8/9 74L/4/8 752/3 763/4 77E/L/W 788/9 AT75 CR7/9/K DH4 E145 E170/5 E190 MD88
4O 6E 9W AA AF AI AS AT AZ BA CA CX D7 D8 DI DL DY EI EK ET EY FJ I2 IB IR JJ JQ KL KQ LB LH MH MI MU NZ PC QF RJ SG SQ TG TP TT UA VA VY
 
boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:24 am

Kenya Airways will take its 5th dreamliner this week

http://twitter.com/KenyaAirways/status/508938082947579905
 
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KPDX
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:53 pm

Just saw an unpainted Kenyan 787 flying over the DFW area at FL430 headed to VCV.
 
boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:08 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 5):
Just saw an unpainted Kenyan 787 flying over the DFW area at FL430 headed to VCV.

Kenya Airways 5Y-KZF L/N 224 to be precise  
 
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KPDX
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:12 pm

Thanks.  

Going in for paint?
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 7):

yup callsign BOE660
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:26 pm

Some more updates to the spreadsheet:

LN364......ZA827.....40628.....787-8.......American Airlines
LN365......ZB179.....35880.....787-9.......United Airlines
LN366......ZB560.....35267.....787-9.......Air Canada
LN367......ZA671.....37508.....787-8.......Avianca
LN368......ZB235.....38760.....787-9.......Royal Dutch Airlines (KLM)
LN370......ZB034.....37973.....787-9.......Virgin Atlantic Airways
LN372......ZA769.....42379.....787-8.......Oman Air
LN374......ZB366.....38620.....787-9.......British Airways
LN380......ZB545.....38761.....787-9.......Vietnam Airlines
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boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:09 pm

some pics from today

1)Air Canada C-GHPV finished painting at Portland
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3923/14995743259_ed002a9e68_o.jpgC-GHPV by sabian404, on Flickr

2)Virgin Atlantic G-VNEW inside the EMC

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3872/14996438790_71fe1bc984_o.jpgVirgin atlantic Birthday Girl Boeing 787 by moonm, on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3847/14996543907_2e41f2ba0e_o.jpgVirgin atlantic Birthday Girl Boeing 787 by moonm, on Flickr
 
boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:55 pm

All Things 787 made a huge update on the delivery dates and it seems that all of the teens got one     Many thanks to NYC777 for all the hard work 

2014: L/N 6,11
2015: L/N 12,14,22
2016: L/N 13,15,17,18,19
2017: L/N 5,10,16
2018: L/N 4
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting boefan (Reply 10):
2)Virgin Atlantic G-VNEW inside the EMC

Looks like interior installation is taking place.

Quoting boefan (Reply 11):
All Things 787 made a huge update on the delivery dates and it seems that all of the teens got one

Seems they are planning to deliver, very roughly, one a quarter. I'd think they would want to move a bit faster than that... a teen now or in 2015 is worth quite a bit more than one in 2017. I also expect this schedule is subject to substantial revision if the right deal comes along.

Quoting boefan (Reply 11):
2015: L/N 12,14,22

Who is (are) the customer(s) for these three, originally designated for Transaero?   
 
rwessel
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:11 am

Quoting boefan (Reply 11):
2017: L/N 5,10,16
2018: L/N 4

Just wow.

How much of a discount do you get for a seven or eight year-old aircraft (both 4 and 5 first flew in 1H2010)?
 
flightsimer
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:18 am

Quoting rwessel (Reply 13):

9 years old in case of LN4 as it was rolled out in 2009. Production on it began in 2008, so really you could say its a 10 year old aircraft having already been flown for 8 years.

Who would have thought that would even be possible for all of these aircraft to be delivered so late.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:01 am

Boeing announced that the runway the teens have been sitting on forever will reopen by July 2015. I figured that meant that they'd at least have them all at the EMC by mid year next year, but I guess they could keep a couple of them stored at the tower apron or on the south side somewhere. Or maybe fix them up early and store them in the desert for a few years. Those teens represent a really embarrassing chapter for Boeing, and they need to get them off the lot before their curse transfers over to some other program   
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:12 am

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 9):
LN364......ZA827.....40628.....787-8.......American Airlines
LN365......ZB179.....35880.....787-9.......United Airlines
LN366......ZB560.....35267.....787-9.......Air Canada
LN367......ZA671.....37508.....787-8.......Avianca
LN368......ZB235.....38760.....787-9.......Royal Dutch Airlines (KLM)
LN370......ZB034.....37973.....787-9.......Virgin Atlantic Airways
LN372......ZA769.....42379.....787-8.......Oman Air
LN374......ZB366.....38620.....787-9.......British Airways
LN380......ZB545.....38761.....787-9.......Vietnam Airlines

Mostly 788s... My prediction on 788 to 789 conversions might really happen.  
Quoting boefan (Reply 11):
All Things 787 made a huge update on the delivery dates and it seems that all of the teens got one

I'm more interested in October 2014. Did I just count 17 deliveries scheduled for that month?!?   

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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:28 am

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 15):
Boeing announced that the runway the teens have been sitting on forever will reopen by July 2015.

That announcement was made last year, plans might have changed a bit.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting boefan (Reply 10):
Virgin Atlantic G-VNEW inside the EMC
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 12):
Looks like interior installation is taking place.

So with very high Line Numbers going directly into MC, does this mean that EMC is now a sort of (permanent) FAL No.5 position?
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 18):
So with very high Line Numbers going directly into MC, does this mean that EMC is now a sort of (permanent) FAL No.5 position?

It seems from recent experience like the 7/month schedule doesn't yet allow enough time to complete certain aircraft: 787-9s and first frames for particular airlines. The EMC is cleaning up the unfinished work on those frames.

I would expect that as the production system continues to improve (assuming Boeing doesn't do anything dumb like prematurely laying off a big chunk of the workforce CHS-style) fewer frames will have to go to the EMC for completion.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 17):
That announcement was made last year, plans might have changed a bit.

Might have changed, indeed.

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/509416982283038720 "Over capacity: as Boeing's inventory of unfinished 787s grows the early model jets are being parked on Kilo 7 at KPAE"

Runway 11-29 has overflowed to Kilo 7 again, and the tower apron is near saturated with 747s. Looks like KPAE is taking steps backwards towards the 2012 time frame, when there were unfinished jets covering every last square inch of land and every delivered 787 has to go through the EMC.

I wonder why they rushed line 5 back to KPAE after the PIP flight test, just to half dismantle and store. Maybe the customer bailed, but in hindsight it would have been smarter to fly it into the desert for storage.
 
boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 20):
Runway 11-29 has overflowed to Kilo 7 again, and the tower apron is near saturated with 747s. Looks like KPAE is taking steps backwards towards the 2012 time frame, when there were unfinished jets covering every last square inch of land and every delivered 787 has to go through the EMC.

A quick count shows that today 9/9/2014 there are 56 widebody aiplanes all around the airport (excluding FAL)

34 x 787 (including teens)
8 x 777 (8 ER's + 1 F)
9 x 747 (6 F's + 3 i's)
5 x 767 (4x tankers + 1 FedEx)

way to many planes sitting around KPAE IMO

Thanks
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 20):
Runway 11-29 has overflowed to Kilo 7 again

So they moved two 787 frames (LN 5 and I think LN 10, although it might be LN 16) from 11/29 to Kilo 7. What is taking up the vacated space on 11/29, if anything? Or is this just "getting out of the way" frames with later expected delivery dates that aren't expected to be touched before 11/29 is reopened?
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:07 pm

Kilo 7 storage area:


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr
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WarpSpeed
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 23):
Kilo 7 storage area:


Maybe they are being added to the vintage display nearby.....   

Quoting boefan (Reply 21):
A quick count shows that today 9/9/2014 there are 56 widebody aiplanes all around the airport (excluding FAL)

34 x 787 (including teens)
8 x 777 (8 ER's + 1 F)
9 x 747 (6 F's + 3 i's)
5 x 767 (4x tankers + 1 FedEx)

way to many planes sitting around KPAE IMO

Way too much $$$$ sitting idle.
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):
So they moved two 787 frames (LN 5 and I think LN 10, although it might be LN 16)

moonm's pictures make clear that the other frame on K7 is LN 16.
 
boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 24):
Way too much $$$$ sitting idle.

almost 14 billion $$ without the tankers at list prices
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:48 pm

More recent photos of the other storage areas:


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr


Around KPAE 9-9-14 by moonm, on Flickr

It remains fascinating.

[Edited 2014-09-09 14:49:35]
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:00 pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/15192347652/in/photostream/

This photo by moonm appears to show the following frames still on 11/29, in this order, with nothing new added:

LN 12 (facing camera)
LN 17 (facing camera)
LN 10
LN 15
LN 18
LN 19
LN 13

If you pluck from the edges and go in, this is nearly the same as NYC777's new projected delivery order, with only LN 15 and LN 18 (slated for delivery one month apart) reversed.

LN 5 and LN 16, moved to K7, are slated for delivery after all of the above.
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 12):
Seems they are planning to deliver, very roughly, one a quarter. I'd think they would want to move a bit faster than that... a teen now or in 2015 is worth quite a bit more than one in 2017.

Every time one of these early aircraft are delivered, on a non-GAAP bases they will have to take a very large loss as these aircraft were some of the most expensive to produce. I suspect they will want to space out the deliveries to delay the financial impact all in one quarter.

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 29):
Every time one of these early aircraft are delivered, on a non-GAAP bases they will have to take a very large loss as these aircraft were some of the most expensive to produce. I suspect they will want to space out the deliveries to delay the financial impact all in one quarter.

I understand that they will have to recognize a paper loss at delivery of each of these aircraft (and a larger one for the very early frames), but analysts already realize that, and I would think it would be more important to maximize the actual cash brought in from the deliveries. That implies delivering sooner, because a big part of what value the teens do have is in availability. But then again I'm not in the C-suite at Boeing.  
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:44 am

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 1):
UA #12 – 787-9

Has she entered service yet?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
hkcanadaexpat
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:49 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 31):
Has she entered service yet?

just bookmark this link to keep track of it.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N38950
A
 
iahcsr
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:03 am

Ship 950 is still doing the induction thing at SEA. Don't see any status changes for the next couple days at least.
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lightsaber
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:45 pm

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 24):
Way too much $$$$ sitting idle.
Quoting boefan (Reply 26):
almost 14 billion $$ without the tankers at list prices

Definitely a financial problem to be fixed.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 29):
Every time one of these early aircraft are delivered, on a non-GAAP bases they will have to take a very large loss as these aircraft were some of the most expensive to produce. I suspect they will want to space out the deliveries to delay the financial impact all in one quarter.

Agreed. But it is a cash flow improvement.  

What is the anticipated loss per 'terrible teen' on paper?

Lightsaber
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:22 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
What is the anticipated loss per 'terrible teen' on paper?

Based on the production cost of the early frames, plus all the re-work and costs related to their long-term storage, I believe it would have to be in the nine-figures range, which would be multiples of whatever their sale price was.
 
WarpSpeed
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
What is the anticipated loss per 'terrible teen' on paper?
Quoting Stitch (Reply 35):
Based on the production cost of the early frames, plus all the re-work and costs related to their long-term storage, I believe it would have to be in the nine-figures range, which would be multiples of whatever their sale price was.

Has Boeing done anything from an accounting standpoint (such as preemptively taking an accounting charge) with respect to some or all of the Teens or was that just for LNs1-3?

Safe to assume that a good portion of the Terrible Teens would be in the EMC right now if frames did not leave the production line with uncompleted jobs?
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:03 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 36):
Has Boeing done anything from an accounting standpoint (such as preemptively taking an accounting charge) with respect to some or all of the Teens or was that just for LNs1-3?

Nope, not yet. The teens and their attendant production costs are sitting in inventory and some of that inventory value will have to be written off when any teen is either delivered or scrapped. To my knowledge none of it has been written off to date.

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 36):
Safe to assume that a good portion of the Terrible Teens would be in the EMC right now if frames did not leave the production line with uncompleted jobs?

The traveled work isn't helping, but I think the slow pace also reflects a deliberate decision on Boeing's part. They were pushing out reworked frames far faster even early in the program when the line was chaos. Granted, the remaining frames require more rework than most of the ones completed early in the program, but still... LN 7-9, 20, 21 all went faster than what we're seeing now.
 
anstar
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:19 pm

What is the plan for the 787's in storage? Do they all have homes?
 
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:47 pm

I noticed that AA's first -8 (LN241) is now in final assembly. Does anyone have any pics yet? Has there been a roll-out date announced?

Thanks in advance for any updates. Looking forward to finally getting a ride on a Dreamliner!
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting bradmovie (Reply 40):
noticed that AA's first -8 (LN241) is now in final assembly. Does anyone have any pics yet?

Section 41 was spotted two days ago.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/15183160091/

It's the best we have.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
bradmovie
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:33 pm

Thank you, the anticipation is building!
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:46 pm

I'm starting to wonder whether flight test at Everett can keep up with the scheduled deliveries this month. Two 787-9s (LN 202 for ANA, LN 213 for ANZ) and three 787-8s (LN 210 for LAN, LN 214 for RJA, and LN 217 for Avianca) scheduled for delivery this month have yet to fly, less than three weeks before the end of the month.

Quoting anstar (Reply 39):
What is the plan for the 787's in storage? Do they all have homes?

Nope. LN 11 is headed to Korean Air. LN 10 and LN 16 are headed to LAN, but apparently not until 2017. We have not yet heard about customers for any of the others (LN 4, 5, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19, 22), although Boeing is actively doing rework right now on LN 14 and LN 22, and they previously implied that LN 5 had a customer.

[Edited 2014-09-10 13:53:48]
 
n471wn
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:18 pm

One is going to the Mexican Air Force as Presidential aircraft and one is going to Korean Airlines
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:56 pm

Line 3 should be handed over the Museum of Flight in November.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...th-a-dreamliner-you-cant-sell.html

Still disappointing to me that the first three frames have no future in service. What a waste, and reminder of how messed up the 787 program has been. Part of me is still skeptical that they'll be able to place lines 4, 5, and all of the teens into service. How many museums worldwide want 787s?   
 
boefan
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:04 am

question : is L/N 3 in flyable condition after 2 years sitting at KMWH ? last flight 25/7/2012 do we have any pictures of it since it went into storage?
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:07 am

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 45):
Still disappointing to me that the first three frames have no future in service.

Boeing kept the second 727, the first 737 (NASA), the first 747 (MOF), the first 757 (F22), and the first 767 (AOA). The first 777 was the first one they had no intention of keeping and it finally was re-engined (PW-RR) and delivered to CAT in 2000. Considering the 787 was a fairly drastic departure from previous airplanes as well as being probably the most extensively instrumented airplane so far it makes sense at least the first few wouldn't end up with an airline or a rich man -- just too hard to return to a certified state.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:32 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 47):
Considering the 787 was a fairly drastic departure from previous airplanes as well as being probably the most extensively instrumented airplane so far it makes sense at least the first few wouldn't end up with an airline or a rich man -- just too hard to return to a certified state.

As I'm sure you know, Boeing originally intended to deliver all of them, even LN 1. And I'm not sure they could have ever delivered LN 1, given its extremely overweight state, but they definitely could have delivered LN 2 and LN 3 had the program been better managed. Instead, after mismanagement and poor recordkeeping, Boeing determined it would cost more to get those two frames into deliverable condition than Boeing would bring in from the sale. I don't think the non-sale of 2 and 3 says anything about the 787 itself; it's purely a consequence of bad program management.

Quoting boefan (Reply 46):
question : is L/N 3 in flyable condition after 2 years sitting at KMWH ?

Should be good enough to fly to BFI after some engines are put on and it undergoes a functional check.

[Edited 2014-09-10 17:35:27]

[Edited 2014-09-10 17:37:56]
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 33

Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:09 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 48):
As I'm sure you know, Boeing originally intended to deliver all of them, even LN 1.....

Agree totally with mismanagement comments -- all the way back to it's inception at the hands of Mr Mullaly. They also planned for one flight (B-1) and out the door before they figured out the customers had other ideas so their fallback was 2 flights (B-1, C-1) and out the door from the beginning -- in a few more years they may get there. All stemming from "if it's not the answer I want, I don't want to hear it". Hey that would be a good title for a book about the whole mess.

[Edited 2014-09-10 19:21:57]

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