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Mortyman
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World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:57 pm

World record for NATS controllers at Gatwick Airport

Air traffic controllers at Gatwick Airport handled a total of 906 movements on 29 August, breaking their own world record for air traffic movements in a day from a single runway.

The record was broken at the end of the busy summer season and the last weekend of the school holidays, with 906 movements equating to a take off or landing every 63 seconds.

Read more here:

http://www.nats.aero/news/world-reco...-nats-controllers-gatwick-airport/

Impressive

Must be a difficult work load for the controlers ...
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:19 am

It must be amazing and at the end, when everything went well, funny   and don't forget the curfew which seems to be considered in the figures above mentioned  
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:07 am

How ironic then that NATS have just lost the bid to continue providing Air Traffic Services at LGW.

I wonder if going for the cheapest tender will lead to a degradation of service..?

Rgds
Flying around India
 
Dogbreath
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:28 am

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 2):
How ironic then that NATS have just lost the bid to continue providing Air Traffic Services at LGW.

Do you have a reliable 'source' for this statement?
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
gkirk
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:44 am

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 3):

LGW and BHX (IIRC) will be handled by ze Germans now I believe
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
rutankrd
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:45 am

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 1):

It must be amazing and at the end, when everything went well, funny   and don't forget the curfew which seems to be considered in the figures above mentioned

There are no curfews at Gatwick , its a 24/7 operation and and a summer evening/early morning its one of the busiest airports Europe for arrivals !

BTW contrary to perceived wisdom Heathrow doesn't have a curfew either ( Just very controlled slots - 18 per night)

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 3):
Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 2):
How ironic then that NATS have just lost the bid to continue providing Air Traffic Services at LGW.

Do you have a reliable 'source' for this statement?

Reading here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-28363709
http://www.prospect.org.uk/news/stor...July/18/NATS-lose-Gatwick-contract
http://www.atc-network.com/atc-news/...r-tower-services-at-london-gatwick

Enough for you ?
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:03 am

Do keep up Dogbreath.  

Rgds
Flying around India
 
atct
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:09 pm

I've worked many 1,000+ operation days from a single runway. Albeit not airbuses and 737's. It's busy, not impossible.!
Trikes are for kids!
 
evomutant
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:51 pm

Of course, even with the change in provider it will be mostly the same controllers- they will be TUPED over.
 
vv701
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:07 pm

It is interesting to compare the up to 55 Air Traffic Movements per hour at the mixed mode operation at LGW with the 38 to 46 ATMs per hour achieved at LHR with single mode operation.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting evomutant (Reply 8):
Of course, even with the change in provider it will be mostly the same controllers- they will be TUPED over.

With the proviso that NATS will offer retention relocations to those who wish to remain within the NATS family.

The grass is not always greener...

Rgds
Flying around India
 
fcogafa
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:41 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 9):

It is interesting to compare the up to 55 Air Traffic Movements per hour at the mixed mode operation at LGW with the 38 to 46 ATMs per hour achieved at LHR with single mode operation.

I presume Heathrow does the best it can with the vastly different mix of traffic compared to Gatwick
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 11):
I presume Heathrow does the best it can with the vastly different mix of traffic compared to Gatwick

LHR is ham-strung with songle operations which, by their nature, are less efficient. There is no reason that LHR couldn't shift 50 an hour on each runway, other than some good old NIMBYism.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
G-CIVP
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):
LHR is ham-strung with single operations which, by their nature, are less efficient. There is no reason that LHR couldn't shift 50 an hour on each runway, other than some good old NIMBYism.

Well if you can solve the conundrum of London's third runway, please share your thoughts!
 
G-CIVP
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 9):
It is interesting to compare the up to 55 Air Traffic Movements per hour at the mixed mode operation at LGW with the 38 to 46 ATMs per hour achieved at LHR with single mode operation.

Stating the obvious, fewer big jets, e.g. B747's, B777's, to contend with and therefore less separation.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 13):

Both the benefits and problems with mix-mode at LHR have been discussed many times on here. The two central messages are that it will increase runway movements, and that it will never happen.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
timz
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
906 movements equating to a take off or landing every 63 seconds.

So the 906 movements were in 15+ hours? Does LGW have a curfew?
 
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Vasu
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:37 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 16):

Yes it does... Not sure of the specifics
 
kdhurst380
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:02 am

Quoting timz (Reply 16):
So the 906 movements were in 15+ hours? Does LGW have a curfew?
Quoting Vasu (Reply 17):
Yes it does... Not sure of the specifics

It's a noise curfew as opposed to a number of slots curfew, QC4 between 11pm-6am I think? I don't know for sure but I know it's not a slot curfew. During bucket & spade season LGW is very much a 24 hour operation.

Edit: For those unfamiliar with QC classifications, here's an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quota_Count_system

If you have time on your hands, then here's the full CAA document: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ercd0204.pdf

[Edited 2014-09-06 17:05:37]
 
 
vv701
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:59 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 14):
Stating the obvious, fewer big jets, e.g. B747's, B777's, to contend with and therefore less separation.


An obvious that I think you may have missed. Let me be more explicit than I thought I needed to be.

LHR capacity is restricted because, unlike LGW. it is not allowed to operate in mixed mode. With that restriction it achieves a planned number of both arrivals and departures of between 38 and 46 in each one hour period.

On the other hand LGW with a single runway operating in mixed mode has just achieved (exceptionally) 55 combined arrivals and departures in a one hour period.

According to Airport Coordination Ltd the average number of movements per hour scheduled at LGW is 50.4. The average number of arrivals and departures per hour at LHR is stated to be 39.8 and 40.7. Here the difference between the arrival and departure numbers per hour is because early in the morning there is a period when a restricted number of arrivals but zero departures are allowed.

Several studies have reported that in the unlikely event of mixed mode being introduced at LHR then its capacity would increase by 17 per cent from 480,000 to 560,000 ATMs per year. So if we apply that growth to the 40.2 average we arrive at 46.9 ATMs per hour for an LHR operating in mixed mode. This is still below the 50.4 at LGW because of the required greater separation at LHR due to aircraft size.

So if we look at the delta between a single mode LHR and a mixed mode LGW we can see that 66.7 per cent is due to the difference in operational modes leaving 33.3 per cent most probably due to aircraft size / wake turbulence differences
 
fcogafa
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:50 pm

Unless you get it right all the time,which isn't possible, mixed mode at LHR could actually reduce movements, think Terminal position, runway crossing, SID direction, vortex spacing etc etc etc. It is not a simple answer.
 
vv701
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:55 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 21):
Unless you get it right all the time,which isn't possible, mixed mode at LHR could actually reduce movements, think Terminal position, runway crossing, SID direction, vortex spacing etc etc etc. It is not a simple answer.

As ATC at LGW have demonstrably got it right I have every confidence that ATC at LHR would get it right.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:09 pm

VV701 - I thought you were comparing rates per hour against LGW and LHR respectively.

To be honest, I'm really not that interested! Presumably the number of 55 was an official number rather than one computed off the back of an envelope.
 
packcheer
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RE: World Record For Nats Controllers At LGW

Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:33 pm

Question: What is the maximum degree slope, or percentage slope (both numbers would be helpful) for a large commercial runway.


Very outside the box thinking going on here regarding a 3rd runway at LHR.

If distance matters, how much could you slope a 6,000 ft portion of a runway that would still be capable of handling wide body aircraft?
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