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bennett123
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:28 pm

When I flew them on Friday, there where only 4 of us aft of the overwing exits, the the flight cost was not excessive.

If that is typical, then it hard to see the route being viable with an A320.
 
luckyone
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 46):
This is only a gut feeling, but this statement stinks of bull****. I can't see any of the Central states of the US having an economy anywhere near that of the UK, and a quick search proves this out. The main reason however why the UK air market is so London centric is that not only are we a small Country, but a large proportion of our population lives either within our capital or within 2 hours driving time of it.

You can read the article for yourself. All I said was IF this is true, then a lot of not-London cities' air service issues MIGHT be explained by it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nd-alabama-and-before-mississippi/
 
bastar1
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 43):
There was an article in the Washington Post last week regarding Great Britain. If Great Britain were a state in the United States it would be the second poorest in front of only Mississippi. If that information is accurate, it may explain why the UK's air market is so London centric.

This isn't correct. In 2012 the UK's GDP was c$38,649, which, when compared with the US states would put it at postition 31, just below Indiana. London, were it to be a state, would be the 12th most populous state and its GDP would be the fifth largest in the union (2010 figures).
 
caaardiff
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 13):
BMI also often used the E145 on the Aberdeen route. Maybe this is an opportunity for the 'new' Midland to return to Heathrow.

My thoughts exactly. The a/c appears more suited to the LF's. But would it push fares up?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 48):
Mmm.

GDP per capita tells us little about how wealthy or poor people in a nation are.

Very technically, that is true: wealth is a stock, GDP per capita is a flow. Example: a household has accumuulated wealth of GBP 500K and an annual income of GBP 100K.

GDP per capita is pretty indicative of spending power, however, as lots of GDP gets distributed as wages and dividends. Air travel isn't a Giffen good for 99.9% of the population; as income rises, so does spending on air travel. Persistently high incomes commonly lead to accumulation of wealth, too. A fraction of that 0.1% can routinely spurn commercial air travel and fly private - lucky them!

The UK has a large and vibrant air travel market. Lack of income isn't what's holding it back, and it doesn't explain the lack of success of Little Red.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 46):
This is only a gut feeling, but this statement stinks of bull****. I can't see any of the Central states of the US having an economy anywhere near that of the UK, and a quick search proves this out.

'Having an economy anywhere near...' is a remarkably non-specific assertion. The Washington Post used a ranking from The Spectator, which presented per capita GDP adjusted to a purchasing power basis. (Pretty routine stuff.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-and-before-mississippi/?tid=sm_fb
 
1400mph
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:19 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 49):

I wasn't telling you anything.

If you're .....was referring to the vast majority of London O&D price sensitive departure point relaxed domestic passengers.
 
vfw614
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:26 pm

Good opportunity for the states of Guernsey to sink some more money into its airline - let it operate to EDI for 18 months and then use the slots for GCI flights so that Guernsey has its Heathrow flights back...

On a more serious note, one really has to wonder if LHR-EDI could attract another operator. LON-EDI must be one of the busiest domestic city pairs in Europe. How about Skyteam in the guise of Transavia Europe as the plan apparently is to have Transavia operating LCC-style out of non-LCC airports (e.g. MUC).
 
bennett123
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:27 pm

GCT64

So why do you now fly to LTN with U2?.
 
1400mph
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 54):

Little Red has struggled because from an O&D standpoint its competing with BA and Europe's LCC giants from Europe's most expensive airport .

It's multiple frequency MAN, EDI and ABZ feeding ops are feeding a network vastly smaller in every way than its Heathrow base competitor.

The extra long haul cash generated on that small scale is less than the running costs. It defeats the whole point of the exercise.
 
1400mph
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:43 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 54):

Lol....I just noticed mighty Germany is only 13th with GDP only 6k higher than Britain. At 42 compared to 36.

With Germany a pretty high benchmark that's perfectly acceptable to me.
 
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GCT64
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:58 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 57):
GCT64
So why do you now fly to LTN with U2?.

I don't, I (mostly) use VS Little Red from LHR. IF, however, it is true and they are going to shut down Little Red then I will go to LTN and the rationale is explained below:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 40):
I don't use BA because (a) I have found them horribly unreliable to EDI and (b) when no one else is operating the route they (unsurprisingly) push up prices. So looks like it is back to EZY at LTN for me.

Choosing EZY is not primarily because of price (and certainly not because of LTN, which is less is convenient for me and not very pleasant) but due to their much higher level of reliability cf. BA (in the context of on time arrivals / less flight cancellations).
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
N1120A
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 9):
bmi and BA competed on LHR - MAN as well but so much of the traffic goes by rail or road that the merger was deemed not to have any competition implications for this route.

From an O&D standpoint, that is absolutely true. Even at 125 MPH, rail is significantly faster in real terms.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 42):

There was an article in the Washington Post last week regarding Great Britain. If Great Britain were a state in the United States it would be the second poorest in front of only Mississippi. If that information is accurate, it may explain why the UK's air market is so London centric.
Quoting bastar1 (Reply 52):
This isn't correct. In 2012 the UK's GDP was c$38,649, which, when compared with the US states would put it at postition 31, just below Indiana. London, were it to be a state, would be the 12th most populous state and its GDP would be the fifth largest in the union (2010 figures).

The big difference here is that the UK has a significantly bigger and more powerful middle class than the US.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:07 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
That's a shame, I've enjoyed watching these.

That's a shame if true, I've enjoyed flying with them.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 40):

When did you speak to them? As I wrote elsewhere in late July I was chatting to one of the cabin managers who said they had been informed that little red would be kept on for 2 additional years past the 3 year original agreement. Loads are up, little red is profitable and VS is happy with it was the message.

Of course things can change but this article is nothing more than pure speculation and filler content.
 
evomutant
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:05 pm

I do wonder why, if it was being axed, they wouldn't have announced it the other day with all the other changes.
 
Andy33
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting evomutant (Reply 64):

Assuming it is being axed, which we don't really know at all, it would be sensible to keep it separate from the long-haul announcement. The long haul changes aren't a reduction in flying, or in UK based staff - they genuinely are an attempt to rearrange the existing resources to increase revenue. They can be presented as positive and most media comments have taken them that way or as neutral - yes there are route cuts, but other routes are increased in frequency and new routes started. So a day or so of favourable publicity.
There's no way to spin the end of Little Red (if that's what is to happen) as positive at all. The story would be "Virgin Atlantic axe seven routes including all domestic flights" and the additional transatlantic flights would be ignored.
 
JRadier
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting phunc (Reply 15):
E170 for example. Easier said than done - trying to find an airline available with the right equipment.

Estonian seemed to have a pretty substantial amount of excess capacity, I haven't seen any airline try so hard to get ACMI flying all summer.
 
Johnwaynebobbet
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting evomutant (Reply 64):
I do wonder why, if it was being axed, they wouldn't have announced it the other day with all the other changes.

Because its not that simple and involves a 3rd party in EI and breaking a contract early.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:17 pm

I hopefully little red can remain flying after the EI contract expires.. hopefully with smaller aircraft and a expanded route map
 
SelseyBill
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 68):
hopefully with smaller aircraft and a expanded route map

I'm afraid Branson and 'Virgin' missed that boat a long tme ago, when they had the chance to buy 'British Midland' at a very reasonable price from Sir Michael Bishop.

A merged 'Virgin'/ 'British Midland' network at Heathrow would have been a very serious competitior to BA.

Branson screwed up that opportunity.
 
steve6666
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 63):
As I wrote elsewhere in late July I was chatting to one of the cabin managers who said they had been informed that little red would be kept on for 2 additional years past the 3 year original agreement. Loads are up, little red is profitable and VS is happy with it was the message.

Of course things can change but this article is nothing more than pure speculation and filler content.

As indeed is the Galley FM broadcast the cabin manager gave you. When you analyse it, it just doesn't make sense. Kreeger is what, a year into the job - why on earth would he be committing to extend an agreement - of potentially dubious value - eighteen months before it requires extending? Especially when he is clearly focusing on making the DL JV work. And if they had committed to extend Little Red for two years, there would have been a public announcement.

As for saying it is profitable, the last wording I remember was words to the effect that it was performing in line with expectations. Not "profitable". But I may be wrong.
A306, A318, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A346, A388, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B73G, B738, B742, B744, B752, B753, B762, B763, B764, B772, B773, B77W, B787-8, BAe-146, Cessna Something, DC-10, E175, E195, ERJ145, MD-11, MD-80, PA Something
 
jetwet1
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:58 am

"Branson screwed up that opportunity."

It was Branson and Bishop, they really could not stand each other, to the point where Bishop was never going to sell to Branson, hence the LH deal.

So VS have to run the route for 3 years in order to secure the slots permanently, correct?

In which case it becomes an accounting question, are the losses sustainable, is there a way to mitigate those loses and what is the ROI on those loses, could the capital used to secure those slot return a better ROI being used in a different way?

So from my point of view, the slots have a known value, it should be a quick and easy 30 minutes inputing figures into an excel spreadsheet. ......Assuming VS wants to keep absurbing the loses on those routes.

Does anyone know the difference in LHR costs between landing an E175/195 and a A320 ?
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:25 am

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 71):
So VS have to run the route for 3 years in order to secure the slots permanently, correct?

But even then can only use them on limited shorthaul and midhaul routes.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
EIDL
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:37 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 72):
But even then can only use them on limited shorthaul and midhaul routes.

If its possible, I'm sure they'd find other airlines willing to buy them to operate to those restricted destinations. 3 years of making a reasonable loss to then make a large profit doesn't sound too bad.
 
vv701
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:36 am

Other media are now reporting the possible demise of Little Red. However there does not appear to be any confirmatory information. They appear to be playing catch-up with the Sunday Times:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-Atlantics-Little-Red-airline.html

The above is a free access site. It is likely it says little more or less than the Times subscription site.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:55 am

From the Telegraph article posted by VV701:

(fair use excerpt)

Quote:
Responding to the report in The Sunday Times, a spokesman for Virgin Atlantic, said: “We look at Little Red through the same lens as the rest of the business – it must deliver on performance, potential or strategic contribution. Little Red is still in its growth phase, so it is too early to comment on these criteria.”

That certainly sounds a lot less than full bodied support. Until now VS having been using phrases such as "maturing strongly" and "in line with expectations", so this is a strategic step backwards in the world of PR BS
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
1400mph
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:58 am

Oh well look fair play to them for having a crack at it.

Had they known about DL back then they probably wouldn't have started Little Red.

As far as VS is concerned having DL on board is a much better prospect than Little Red.

Let's just hope jobs can be retained in some way if it does close.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:47 am

The problem is that VS has a very limited network out of LHR and most O&D passengers would not use LHR, instead taking the train or flying to LCY or STN/LTN.

BA can make its domestic network work because of the connections to both Europe and beyond.

I hope there will be more competition on the UK domestic market but in order to compete with BA it would have to be a big alliance player.. With the new T2 used by Star Alliance, I wonder if there is an opportunity for an airline there to connect through from other UK cities to Star Alliance short and long haul destinations. Maybe Aer Lingus could position itself to do this through codeshares or indeed joining Star Alliance?
Base: BRU
 
Armodeen
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:59 am

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 70):
As indeed is the Galley FM broadcast the cabin manager gave you. When you analyse it, it just doesn't make sense. Kreeger is what, a year into the job - why on earth would he be committing to extend an agreement - of potentially dubious value - eighteen months before it requires extending? Especially when he is clearly focusing on making the DL JV work. And if they had committed to extend Little Red for two years, there would have been a public announcement.

As for saying it is profitable, the last wording I remember was words to the effect that it was performing in line with expectations. Not "profitable". But I may be wrong.

All very valid points which I accept  

I've flown a lot of sectors with little red MAN-LHR-MAN this year, I would say the average load is around 40%. The morning flights are better (maybe 70%?) but the evening flights can go with loads as low as 20%.

That said MAN - LHR is increasing from 3 to 4 daily (with better times) for the winter period again.

Remember little red is not competing so much against BA for O/D traffic, but against rail and road transport and most people wouldn't even consider flying down to London from Manchester unless prices were better than the other 2 options (which they used to be but not anymore due to increases in taxation mostly).
 
Andy33
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:16 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 77):
I hope there will be more competition on the UK domestic market but in order to compete with BA it would have to be a big alliance player.. With the new T2 used by Star Alliance, I wonder if there is an opportunity for an airline there to connect through from other UK cities to Star Alliance short and long haul destinations. Maybe Aer Lingus could position itself to do this through codeshares or indeed joining Star Alliance?

Well Aer Lingus are certainly best placed to do it as they are actually operating the routes now for VS. However they had the opportunity of taking up the slots for EDI and ABZ themselves two years ago, and didn't, probably because they knew the viability of the routes at that time.
The MAN slots belong to VS so if the Sunday Times is correct there's no chance of another player picking this route up. VS or DL will use them for more longhaul work, or lease them out short-term until they identify suitable routes.

BMI was a Star Alliance member and in later years a Lufthansa subsidiary. Throughout this period they lost money. I certainly can't see Lufthansa having another go - they have the exact details of what the connecting traffic was like in BMI days. The problem was that the amount paid to BMI for providing the domestic connections, out of the total ticket price including the long haul segment, was insufficient to cover their costs.
For BA it is a matter of internal accounting as they can allocate revenue as it suits them, and they have a lot of corporate business too.
Terminal 2 will certainly be a better experience than Terminal 1 was, as Little Red passengers will discover from Wednesday this week, but enough to revitalise the EDI and ABZ routes?
Bear in mind that UA fly non-stop to EDI from US hubs, and LH, SK, TK and SN from their respective hubs. For these airlines, adding an extra stop at LHR will lose them passengers. The remaining *A carriers that fly into LHR are important, but maybe not enough to support a *A route LHR-EDI on their own.
 
1400mph
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:03 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 77):

There is massive competition in the U.K domestic market.

Why would anyone use a LHR slot to compete with BA, Flybe, Easyjet and. Ryanair ?

Why would anyone try and compete on MAN-LHR-XXX without the XXX ?

The LCC's put British Midland out of business because the LCC's even though based at other London airports STILL compete with LHR domestic operators.

BA has masses of domestic competition. It doesn't have to be LHR based to be effective.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:17 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 79):

Aer Lingus bid for the route rights, but were deemed less suitable than Virgin Atlantic by the CAA.

In some ways, they were the winner as they 'won' the wet lease supply contract for Virgin, so ended up flying the route with far less commercial risk, if any at all.

Perhaps CityJet could assume the routes? The Avros are probably a similar cost to operate considering they are owned and unlike Virgin - have no lease costs. They could then slot sit for Air France / Delta.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
vv701
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:19 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 79):
The MAN slots belong to VS so if the Sunday Times is correct there's no chance of another player picking this route up. VS or DL will use them for more longhaul work

The three slot pairs to MAN are:

a. 0800 d. 0930
a. 1545 d. 1705
a. 2000 d, 2045

Rearranged I think the 0800 arrival slot looks good for a TATL flight and could be paired with any of the three departure slots depending on the US gateway it flies to.. This arrival slot could also be paired with the 2045 departure slot for a rotation to Asia or Africa although this looks less likely to fit the new VS / DL strategy..

The 1545 arrival and 1705 departure slots might also fit into a TATL service to the mid west or the west coast if the turn round time is long enough. ~Otherwise it may need to be juggled with other VS or DL slots.
 
1400mph
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:45 pm

Let me get this straight and savour it in all its glory....



BD going bust losing money.

BA desperate for slots at LHR.

LH buys BD. (?)

LH loses money on BD.

LH puts BD up for sale.

BA outbids VS and buys BD fair and square. (what's left of it)

BA forced to make available valuable slots. (again)

VS wet leases planes from EI and sets up Little Red with BA's slots.

Little Red loses money and ceases trading.

BA slots remain in limbo just in case they can be put to further ridiculous use before being returned.

[Edited 2014-09-08 05:56:49]
 
Andy33
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:59 pm

You can add a little to this. LH had a stake in BD going back a long time. There was an option in the agreement that said if the controlling shareholder (Sir Michael Bishop) wanted to sell out Lufthansa had to buy his shares. When he decided to retire, he forced LH to implement the option, though apparently they didn't want to because they knew how bad things were at BD. They did try to turn the business round, but failed, so they stripped out some of the LHR slots and sold the rest to BA, who bid a great deal more than VS.

If Little Red stop flying (they won't cease trading because they are just a brand name of VS, not a company) the slots revert to BA, who can keep them and do what they like with them unless someone else comes along with a business plan to use them for flights to EDI, ABZ, MOW, CAI, RUH or NCE. MOW is impossible (unless Easyjet want to have a try) as only BA and EZY have route authority to fly from London to Moscow, and the bilateral only allows 2 UK and 2 Russian airlines on the route. To try CAI or RUH it would have to be an airline with a UK AOC, again because of bilaterals.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:11 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 82):

The three slot pairs to MAN are:

a. 0800 d. 0930
a. 1545 d. 1705
a. 2000 d, 2045

Rearranged I think the 0800 arrival slot looks good for a TATL flight and could be paired with any of the three departure slots depending on the US gateway it flies to.. This arrival slot could also be paired with the 2045 departure slot for a rotation to Asia or Africa although this looks less likely to fit the new VS / DL strategy..

The 1545 arrival and 1705 departure slots might also fit into a TATL service to the mid west or the west coast if the turn round time is long enough. ~Otherwise it may need to be juggled with other VS or DL slots.

The revised schedule is:

LHR - MAN

d 0850 a 0950
d 1225 a 1325
d 1645: a 1745
d 2010 a 2110

MAN - LHR

d 0645 a 0745
d 1030 a 1130
d 1415 a 1515
d 1825 a 1925
 
fcogafa
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:28 pm

No press releases, Twitter or Facebook messages from Virgin denying this yet....!
 
vv701
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:45 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 85):
The revised schedule is:

LHR - MAN

d 0850 a 0950
d 1225 a 1325
d 1645: a 1745
d 2010 a 2110

MAN - LHR

d 0645 a 0745
d 1030 a 1130
d 1415 a 1515
d 1825 a 19

Thanks for that. I see that his revised timetable is the Winter timetable effective 26 October. Did Little Red operate four daily flights last winter? (Note here that LHR Winter Timetable slots are less numerous than Summer Timetable slots and that possession of Summer Timetable slots does not entitle the operator to the same slots in the Winter Timetable. So, for example, many BA flights move around a little as the Timetables change.)

If the new Timetable sees four daily rotations for the first time, it would suggest that the Times report is wrong. However the additional rotation might be specified in the VS / Ei contract.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:21 pm

No it started initially as 4 daily then dropped to 3 allowing delta to use the slot for an additional LHR - SEA if I recall correctly?

I can't remember when it dropped to 3, I think it was April 14?
 
LondonCity
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 88):
I can't remember when it dropped to 3, I think it was April 14?

Not sure of the exact date but I believe with the start of the 2014 summer timetable.
 
vv701
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 89):
Not sure of the exact date but I believe with the start of the 2014 summer timetable.

Have checked it out on The VS Source web site. It confirms that LHR-MAN went from four times daily to three times daily on 29 March, the first day of the current timetable. So the reinstatement of four daily flights at the start of next winter's timetable seems to be long planned and tells us little about the accuracy of the Sunday Times article.
 
anstar
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 85):
d 1225 a 1325

That is a DL slot which is only used int he summer season and is used by little red over the winter season to slot sit.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:38 pm

It's the LHR-SEA run and Delta can make better use of all those other MAN slots than Little Red. That, to them, might make closing Little Red worthwhile. They can then slot swap the MAN slots to get better times.
 
egph
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:54 am

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:47 pm

I have to say I'm not surprised at all with this. I have flown the EDI-LHR route a few times over the past 12 months and gone with both VS and BA. Found them on average fairly well matched pricewise to be fair, sometimes VS were cheaper, sometimes BA were but overall they matched. The service however I felt was won by BA hands down. Therefore I felt VS's days were numbered on the route.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10580
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:59 pm

Imo, the service on VS seemed OK.

There is a limit on what can be done on a short flight.

For me, the big issue is LF.

Unless they fill seats, they will not make money.
 
sk736
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 94):
Imo, the service on VS seemed OK.

There is a limit on what can be done on a short flight.

I agree - on MAN/LHR in particular, there's not a lot of service that can be delivered. What I find interesting is that VS made a big thing before launching Little Red about how different the inflight service was going to be from what was offered by BA. In fact, their inflight service is no different than that offered by BA. The only plus point for VS for me is that you can get a reward flight for 3,750 miles + £17, rather than BA's 4,500 Avios +£17.50.
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1272
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting SK736 (Reply 95):
The only plus point for VS for me is that you can get a reward flight for 3,750 miles + £17, rather than BA's 4,500 Avios +£17.50.

And you earn more too, 750 miles/sector rather than 500. Means a one way redemption every 5 flights instead of 9!

I prefer the experience on VS. I guess a part of that is the low loads, I've gotten used to feeling like I'm on a private A320 when sitting at the back with the nonrevs. Also the gate VS uses at MAN is miles better than the far too small BA ones.
 
hotplane
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:56 pm

I presume the gate 8 area at LHR T1 will be blocked off now VS are T2 and BA use the old Lingus silver tube.
?
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1272
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:20 pm

Probably, which is a bit of a shame if you like to plane watch! Must be the best spot in the whole airport aside from the tower :P
 
hotplane
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: Sunday Times: Virgin's "Little Red" To Close

Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:24 pm

My thoughts exactly! I've actually checked in early several times over the past few years to take advantage.
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