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gilesdavies
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Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:18 pm

I was just curious to know what is happening to all the spare capacity now becoming available at Terminal 3, with all the Star Alliance carriers moving to Terminal 2.

United, Air Canada and SAS between them must be freeing up about 40-50 movements a day, with passengers that used the terminal.

You also have the smaller carriers like Turkish, Singapore, Thai, etc that will be releasing another 10-15 slots.

There is lots of talk of carriers moving to the new Terminal two, but seeing much about other carriers switching between terminals. This must be leaving T3 quite quiet now...

I know Terminal 1 is due to close in the 2-3 years, is this just all part of transition when the remaining carriers from T1 will switch to T3?

Will BA be able to move all their T1 slots to T5 when the terminal closes and the new Pier comes online, or will T3 mop up these flights up too?

I was thinking, last week Delta and Virgin announced closer ties on their joint network and would be interesting to see if they look to combining ops at one single terminal. They will then have an advantage over AA and BA.
 
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hilram
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:28 pm

T1 will be demolished first, then T2 will be expanded further onto the site on which T1 currently stands. Finally, T3 will be demolished.
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apodino
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Thread starter):
United, Air Canada and SAS between them must be freeing up about 40-50 movements a day, with passengers that used the terminal

UA moved out of T3 years ago into T1 not long after Bermuda II went away. They now are in T2 since they were one of the carriers that opened the new terminal. I believe SAS was also in T1 when the terminal closed. Air Canada was in T3 but they also moved to T2. This capacity was partially replaced by Delta, which has moved some flights to T3 due to the VS joint venture. Basically, JFK and non DL hub flights use T3, where the flights to the other hubs (MSP, ATL, and DTW) continue to use T4, which is the SkyTeam terminal otherwise. Otherwise...the BA flights that cant fit into T5 will use T3, which include flights now in T1. Also remember that US moved into T3 recently as well as part of the AA merger, and that will add a couple of departures as well.

Quoting gilesdavies (Thread starter):
You also have the smaller carriers like Turkish, Singapore, Thai, etc that will be releasing another 10-15 slots.

There is lots of talk of carriers moving to the new Terminal two, but seeing much about other carriers switching between terminals. This must be leaving T3 quite quiet now...

Turkish and Thai have already moved to T2. Singapore will eventually move into T2 as well as a Star Alliance carrier. Egyptair and Eithiopean are the only other carriers currently in T3 that will be moving to T2. Icelandair could end up in T3 since they are non aligned as well. The other issue is some of the non aligned T1 carriers and where they will end up. El Al will almost certainly end up in T2 due to both T3 and T4 housing flag carriers from nations hostile to israel.


The gate usage and Capacity will all work itself out. I think you are reading way too much into this capacity thing at terminals.
 
seansasLCY
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:39 pm

I read somewhere that BA's T3 flights will get jetways now rather than the bus stands that I've had to use when flying to HEL.
 
anstar
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:04 pm

VS/DL have been using busses on some flights as have BA.

So with these carriers moving out it will mean a reduction in remote stands being used.

BA are also moving some flights to T3 like BCN and I expect DL to move the rest of their operations into T3 at some point as well.
 
commavia
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:11 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 1):
Finally, T3 will be demolished.

I only hope I live to see the day.

Sadly, considering the slower-than-glacial pace at which things generally seem to move when it comes to any improvement at Heathrow, I'm not holding my breath. Nonetheless, I cannot wait until T3 is demolished - it is now, by far, Heathrow's worst terminal. Incremental improvements have been made, in certain areas, over the years, but overall it is still - in my experience - simply not fit to serve as a gateway facility for one of the world's busiest airports, in one of the world's largest and most important cities, in the 21st century.

With all the moves, T3 is likely going to be getting at least somewhat less busy, which is, indeed, great - but it's still not good enough.
 
RedChili
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
I believe SAS was also in T1 when the terminal closed.

No, SAS has been in T3 for years and years. They even had their own lounge there, which was used by many Star airlines.

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
El Al will almost certainly end up in T2 due to both T3 and T4 housing flag carriers from nations hostile to israel.

There are many airports in Europe where it's not possible to separate those airlines, and they co-exist happily together.
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jfk777
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:57 pm

Now that Terminal 4 is the Skyteam terminal and Terminal 2 is the Star terminal is anything at Heathrow going to be the Oneworld terminal ? BA has all of terminal 5 to itself, it doesn't want to share with AA and Cathay. Terminal 3 is the oldest, since the Comet flew, and worst LHR terminal now with high profile airlines carrying some very high paying passengers. A new Terminal 3 should become the other end of terminal 5.
 
anstar
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
is anything at Heathrow going to be the Oneworld terminal ?

T3 is the oneworld terminal
 
boswashsprstar
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:40 pm

DL has announced its intention to eventually move all of its flights into T3 which will take up some of the freed-up capacity.
 
flyingthe757
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 1):

There is a big revamp project ongoing which will recreate T3 and turn it into the oneworld terminal, so it's certainly not getting knocked down anytime soon.

The extra capacity is actually good as it means checkin zones can be worked on easier then if it's was full.
 
BA0197
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:06 pm

As others have said, BA will be switching to a completely jetty-based operating instead of using remote stands from T3 as a result of the movements.

I personally think T1 is by far, without a doubt the worst terminal in the UK full stop, T3 is a godsend compared to that forsaken place.
 
jfk777
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):
T3 is the oneworld terminal

How do you figure that ? Virgin flies from there and their world famous Virgin Clubhouse is there. ITs correct to
say " some OW airlies fly from Terminal 3" but its not an exclusive OW terminal.
 
fcogafa
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:40 pm

There was a suggestion that Qatar would move to T3 before the A380s started service but that has gone quiet.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:44 pm

I wonder if MEA have any plans to move to T4 to join their SkyTeam buddies, or will they stay put in T3 with VS.
 
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teme82
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 3):
I read somewhere that BA's T3 flights will get jetways now rather than the bus stands that I've had to use when flying to HEL.

Next time try AY instead of BA  
Flying high and low
 
Glom
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 13):
There was a suggestion that Qatar would move to T3 before the A380s started service but that has gone quiet.

I hope so. Having to use T4 is such a pain because of all the waiting you have to do to cross the Southern runway.
 
jrfspa320
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:07 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 13):
There was a suggestion that Qatar would move to T3

It would make sense but im not sure after the investment in the lounge in T4, but maybe in the medium term, also for MH to move over. Is UL still in T4 or have they moved to T3 now?

I would still like to still T5 pier D built sooner rather than later (i know moving the fuel farm is a frig but worth it long term), to get all BA ops into one terminal.
 
slinky09
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:49 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
How do you figure that ? Virgin flies from there and their world famous Virgin Clubhouse is there. ITs correct to
say " some OW airlies fly from Terminal 3" but its not an exclusive OW terminal.

T3 clearly is the OneWorld terminal, I don't believe Anstar said "exclusively" but most if not all OneWorld carriers at Heathrow use T3 (AA, BA, QF, CX, IB, MH etc.) Just because VS and DL are also there doesn't lessen the case. If the full development plan happens then T3 will become T5D and T5E in time (IIRC) so that does mean that T5 will eventuallly become OW.

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
Sadly, considering the slower-than-glacial pace at which things generally seem to move when it comes to any improvement at Heathrow, I'm not holding my breath. Nonetheless, I cannot wait until T3 is demolished - it is now, by far, Heathrow's worst terminal. Incremental improvements have been made, in certain areas, over the years, but overall it is still - in my experience - simply not fit to serve as a gateway facility for one of the world's busiest airports, in one of the world's largest and most important cities, in the 21st century.

Ha ha ha, compared to how many US airports has such major improvement as has happened at Heathrow in recent years, one terminal here or there perhaps but US airports problems are well knowm? T5 and T2 are marvellous new facilities, privately funded, offering significantly better experiences for passengers ... yes T3 can be awful but that all depends on your experience, in my view the Virgin Atlantic experience (if you're a top tier FF or travelling in UC) is better than at any airport in the world with the drive through check in, private security and clubhouse. I can be sipping champagne 5 minutes after my car pulls up kerbside. I don't think any airport in the world can match that, not even FRA or SIN or HKG. And that's at T3.
 
Someone83
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:54 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 2):
I believe SAS was also in T1 when the terminal closed
Quoting RedChili (Reply 6):
No, SAS has been in T3 for years and years. They even had their own lounge there, which was used by many Star airlines.

They have been at T3 for between 20 and 25 years
 
anstar
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:05 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
How do you figure that ? Virgin flies from there and their world famous Virgin Clubhouse is there. ITs correct to
say " some OW airlies fly from Terminal 3" but its not an exclusive OW terminal.

I didn't say exclusive.

T4 is not an exclusive skyteam terminal ( They have MH, QR, Kuwait, and alot of unaligned airlines) and neither is T2 (with little red and Aer Lingus).
 
willd
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:46 am

To save JFK777 getting all hung up, this is the plan:

T2: Star Alliance and Aer Lingus and Virgin Atlantic Little Red
T3: One World Carriers, a couple of BA departures, VS and DL (they have stated they want to move all operations into t3 but haven't been able to due to lack of space)
T4: Skyteam plus the majority of non-aligned carriers. Note QR are at T4 because their residency their pre-dates them joining One World. Same with AI and Star Alliance.
T5: BA and IB

Terminal restrictions etc at LHR mean that it will be pretty much impossible for certain terminals to be exclusively for certain alliances/airlines.
 
Andy33
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:53 am

In various statements from the airport itself, they describe T4 as "Skyteam and non-aligned". In previous a-net threads I've read that El Al and Icelandair will eventually move to T4, and the 9 BA routes that will remain at T1 after 28th October will eventually go to T3 - how accurate this is I don't know.
Virgin Little Red and Aer Lingus "ought" to be elsewhere, but neither T3 nor T4 have ever had any facilities for handling domestic flights. When T2 was being designed, BD still existed as a domestic carrier, and they were in Star Alliance, so domestic/CTA arrival facilities were always part of the plan. Cheaper to add Aer Lingus to the mix in T2 than carry out a major remodel in T4. Little Red inherited some of the BD slots/routes via competition remedy from IAG, so they are in T2 as well - obviously they would have preferred T3, but Heathrow weren't going to do that unless VS paid for the terminal modifications. In any case, the flights are actually operated by Aer Lingus for VS.

It will be interesting to see how fast (if ever) airlines such as Air India relocate to T2, QR and MH to T3 and so on to join their alliance partners.
The main reason VS longhaul are still in T3 is the amount of their own money they spent on the kerbside check in and Clubhouse. Does anyone know if these facilities could actually cope with the Delta flights that are in T4 now?
 
omerlich
Posts: 110
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:43 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 22):

I can tel you for sure LY will move to T4.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:52 am

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 11):
I personally think T1 is by far, without a doubt the worst terminal in the UK full stop, T3 is a godsend compared to that forsaken place.

I raise you Manchester Airport Terminal 1... The most vile, unorganised, chaotic airport experience of my life.
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Lofty
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RE: Spare Capacity At Heathrow's Terminal 3...

Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:06 am

BA will have around 95% of T3 flight on Pier from the 17th September. From the winter schedule Dublin and Belfast move to T5 and Barcelona moves to T3. Long term T1 flights will move to T3 as T1 closes date still TBC as T2 has capacity issue that need dealing with. Also BA will be moving 8 Longhaul flights into T3, my guess these will be those with high transfer loads onto other OW flights.

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