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goldcrest
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:16 am

A friend sent this on to me just a few moments ago.....

British Airways is to resume direct flights from Heathrow to Kuala Lumpur in summer 2015.

The daily service from Terminal 5 will be operated by a four-cabin Boeing 777-200ER, featuring 12 seats in First, 48 in Club World, 32 in World Traveller Plus and a further 127 in World Traveller.

Flights begin on May 27, 2015. BA last flew to the Malaysian capital in 2001.

Lynne Embleton, Director of Business Strategy, said: “We have been working to resume flights to Kuala Lumpur for a long time, so it’s wonderful to be back in the heart of Malaysia once again.

“We are re-starting the route in response to commercial demand from our customers who have been asking us for direct British Airways flights to Kuala Lumpur, which opens up new connecting routes around the region.

“A thriving economy offers fantastic opportunities for UK businesses, while holiday-makers can enjoy some stunning destinations around the country and beyond.”
Kuala Lumpur is the world’s largest aviation hub not currently served directly by British Airways, and a major centre for oneworld airlines. Malaysia itself has strong ties with the UK and a large, rapidly growing economy with a focus on international trade.
 
kl911
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:36 am

Wow, didnt see this one coming. That will hurt KLM.

Is there really a first class market to/from KUL? Or is there just no other plane available?
 
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777Jet
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:42 am

Quoting goldcrest (Thread starter):
“We have been working to resume flights to Kuala Lumpur for a long time, so it’s wonderful to be back in the heart of Malaysia once again.

If so, I bet the lack of confidence in MH is one reason BA might have given this the go-ahead  

Why not start that route now, if ever, given the issues MH is facing?

I think the timing is good, but I also hope that by next May MH is in a better position than it is now...
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atal17
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:44 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):

I think BA will take over one of MH's flights to LHR, but I'm curious as to how that'll work.
 
Ferminios
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
Why not start that route now, if ever, given the issues MH is facing?

Perhaps this will pave the way for MH to cut one of its two daily LHR frequencies?

If they move the A380 that becomes available to AMS, and cut FRA that eliminates the need for MH to operate the 777.
 
kl911
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:54 am

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 4):
If they move the A380 that becomes available to AMS, and cut FRA that eliminates the need for MH to operate the 777.

What's wrong with operating the 777? I like the A380 at AMS idea though.
 
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777Jet
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BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:55 am

Quoting atal17 (Reply 3):
I think BA will take over one of MH's flights to LHR, but I'm curious as to how that'll work.
Quoting atal17 (Reply 3):
Perhaps this will pave the way for MH to cut one of its two daily LHR frequencies?

If they move the A380 that becomes available to AMS, and cut FRA that eliminates the need for MH to operate the 777.

In other threads there is talk about MH restructuring and getting rid of the A380s has been discussed however we don't know the likelyhood of that happening. But if MH find it hard to fill an A380 to LHR now then if BA add capacity to the route I imagine MH will find it much harder to deal with the A380. It will be interesting to see what MH's restructuring plans are when they become final as well as how this plays out given that some confidence should return to MH before BA resumes flights to KUL next May. Interesting times ahead. Also note that the BA 772 seems premium heavy...
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atal17
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:59 am

The timings coincide with MH2/MH1.
 
Ferminios
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 5):
What's wrong with operating the 777? I like the A380 at AMS idea though.

Not much, but the 777s are MH's oldest aircraft (most of them delivered in the late 90s), and they were looking at replacing them already anyway before this year's events: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...r-for-17-jets-to-replace-777s.html

As to the A380 at AMS, I hope that the market is not too badly affected by MH17. I specifically recall that when AMS started preparing for receiving A380s, it was to accommodate MH, not EK.
 
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777Jet
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 5):
Quoting Ferminios (Reply 4):
If they move the A380 that becomes available to AMS, and cut FRA that eliminates the need for MH to operate the 777.

What's wrong with operating the 777? I like the A380 at AMS idea though.

Nothing wrong with 777s. However, they are on the way out at MH and MH refers to them a 'gas guzzlers'...

After the 777s are gone, their long haul fleet will just be A380s and A330s. They only have half a dozen or so A380s and IMO they are not suited to MH's operations and were only ordered so that they can say the operate the world's largest commercial aircraft as their competitons like SQ and to a lesser extent TG operate A380s (they might not be suited to TG either and TG most likely ordered them for face - the same reason MH ordered them). However, the A330s apparently don't have the range to Western Europe from KUL. See the dilema at MH? Only the A380 and 777 have the range to Western Europe so after they drop the 777 that only leaves the A380. So, seeing the MH A380 at AMS might not be that far fetched of an idea because if they keep to their plans and get rid of the 777s it will either be an A380 to AMS or nothing (unless they order something like the 787 / A350 - there was talk in another thread about MH picking up the 'terrible teen' 787s for a good price as they could reach Western Europe unlike their A330s)... So, maybe the 777s exit the fleet and one LHR frequency is cut and that A380 operates to AMS instead???
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kl911
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:23 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 9):
So, maybe the 777s exit the fleet and one LHR frequency is cut and that A380 operates to AMS instead???

That might work now with the KL/AF codeshares , but there is talk of EY and AF/KL getting a revenue sharing deal ala BA/QR and EK/QF on the Australia/South Asia routes. And with MH in OneWorld now I can see KL withdrawing the codeshare in favor of EY.
 
parapente
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:51 am

Good move by BA. It is an important destination that they should be serving
 
commavia
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:08 pm

Quoting goldcrest (Thread starter):
British Airways is to resume direct flights from Heathrow to Kuala Lumpur in summer 2015.

Cool. KUL is a great city and Malaysia is a great country. It is awesome to see how BA has used its expanding slot portfolio at LHR over the last few years to do pretty much exactly what it said it would - add new flights to new markets (AUS, ICN, CTU, now KUL, etc.) that expand and enhance the overall value of the hub.

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 4):
Perhaps this will pave the way for MH to cut one of its two daily LHR frequencies?

It would seem to make sense, particularly if, as has been speculated, BA and Malaysia deepen their cooperation.

If that is the case, though, my personal speculation is that Malaysia would cancel its morning westbound and evening eastbound, leaving a "joint" schedule between the two of, say, 1200 (MH) and 2030 (BA) eastbound, and 2300 (BA) and 0030 (MH) westbound. That schedule would fit the pattern of Malaysia's other (once daily) European routes, and align well with BA's schedule.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 6):
In other threads there is talk about MH restructuring and getting rid of the A380s has been discussed however we don't know the likelyhood of that happening.

Malaysia should never have ordered the A380 to begin with - it is way, way too large an aircraft for their network. The 77W would have been, and still would be, a vastly more appropriate aircraft - and even then, only for a few of their routes. Nonetheless, at this point, I've seen press speculation that the capital required to dispose of, and replace, the A380s is simply more than the airline can finance at this point, so they may well be stuck with them.
 
AAMDanny
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:09 pm

I'm not surprised they are doing this after all the unfortunate tragedies at MH. They should easily be able to fill a 4 class B772 without any difficulties, if the route does well it could be upgraded to a larger type in the future.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:33 pm

Malaysia is also an important destination for the oil industry, so there will be a lot of demand for transfers to/from Aberdeen. The company I worked for had just moved all manufacturing to Malaysia and opened a regional office there, and I'm sure they were not alone.

This should help win back a few customers from AF/KLM
 
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allrite
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:32 pm

Quoting goldcrest (Thread starter):
British Airways flights to Kuala Lumpur, which opens up new connecting routes around the region.

This statement indicates some sort of codeshare arrangement, probably with MH. Who else could provide connecting routes from KUL?
I like artificial banana essence!
 
ZKOJH
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:54 pm

It would be interesting to see if BA use KUL as a new base for onward flight in the future. e.g flight to SYD and AKl, etc, as MH goes through this drastic turn around, could well become an A380 flight down the road. good luck to them..
Air New Zealand ~ dreams of flying
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:13 pm

Just wondering where the aircraft to fly the route will come from? Does the timing of the route opening coincide with the arrival of the first 787-9s, which would then be allocated to an existing route?

Personally I would have preferred a BA code share with MH on their A380s [MH could do with a friendly helping hand I guess right now] and was hoping instead for a non-stop to CGK as the next far eastern destination .
 
Andy33
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:31 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 17):
Just wondering where the aircraft to fly the route will come from? Does the timing of the route opening coincide with the arrival of the first 787-9s, which would then be allocated to an existing route?

All the 788s have been delivered and the first 789 isn't due until September 2015, the only long haul deliveries due between now and the start of the KUL route are two A380s, though those could displace aircraft to operate KUL.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:58 pm

Here is the schedule.

BA033 LHR-KUL 2015-1600 772
BA032 KUL-LHR 2305-0525 772

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 18):
All the 788s have been delivered and the first 789 isn't due until September 2015

thanks I couldn't find a date for the first 789s to arrive.
 
fcogafa
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:12 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 20):

Here is the schedule.

BA033 LHR-KUL 2015-1600 772
BA032 KUL-LHR 2305-0525 772

Not quite the current MAS timings then?
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:29 pm

So how is BA accommodating an 05:25 arrival at LHR? Has something else moved, or has BA picked up a slot from somewhere (QF?)?
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
spud757
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:02 pm

Lets hope BA-MH develop a good code share agreement at both ends of the sectors.

Look forward to seeing MH code on BA's domestic network and also Western European cities.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:54 am

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 22):
So how is BA accommodating an 05:25 arrival at LHR?

I do not know. However MH2 is currently scheduled at LHR at 05:50. But my Winter 2009-10 timetable shows it was then scheduled at 05:25. However this might be a coincidence.

Back in Winter 2009/10 there were no arrival slots timed at 05:50. However there were two timed at 05:45 (SQ322 and KQ102) and another two at 05:55 (BD774 or '76 - depending on the day of the week - and BA010).

It is worth remembering that arrival slots at LHR between 04:50 and 06:00 are not constrained by runway space but by the cumulative noise of the aircraft operating those slots. So back in the Winter 2009/10 Timetable there were only 19 assigned slots between 05:00 and 06:00. For any other one hour period in the day there were and still are approximately twice that number. So the timing of the BA KUL arrival slot may not be relevant to its origin.

As an aside it is also worth remembering that there are no assigned LHR arrival slots between 06:00 and 06:30. This period is used to land primarily TATL services scheduled to arrive after 06:30 but arriving over the UK early because of the weather, primarily the strength of the North Atlantic jet stream. This helps to minimise time such aircraft spend in an LHR holding stack.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:33 pm

Great to see BA return to KUL after many years of absence. With MH's reputation sadly currently in the toilet, this replacement of one of the MH frequencies (if indeed that's what this is) will hopefully help the performance of both airlines.

BA said it would expand Asia and they are certainly sticking to their word in recent years, good luck BA
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 24):
As an aside it is also worth remembering that there are no assigned LHR arrival slots between 06:00 and 06:30. This period is used to land primarily TATL services scheduled to arrive after 06:30 but arriving over the UK early because of the weather, primarily the strength of the North Atlantic jet stream. This helps to minimise time such aircraft spend in an LHR holding stack.

It's off-topic, but that seems to be an inefficient use of LHR slots considering that the airport operates at about 99% of capacity. Not assigning any arrival slots for that 30 minute period to facilitate early arrivals must mean that the slots assigned to the flights that arrive early aren't being used on those days. They could land another 20 or so aircraft during that 30 minute period if they ignored the early arrival issue and let them hold.

And these days, weather and wind forecasts are quite accurate so when winds are stronger than usual the aircraft could simply delay their departure from the point of origin to avoid arriving early. I've had that happen several times on transatlantic flights, especially to ZRH, when winds were going to result in the flight arriving before the strict night curfew ended at 0600. We just sat at the gate (at YUL in my case) for another 20 to 30 minutes and still arrived on time.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:36 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
And these days, weather and wind forecasts are quite accurate so when winds are stronger than usual the aircraft could simply delay their departure from the point of origin to avoid arriving early.

The total number of legally available slots at LHR is restricted by the so-called 'Air Transport Movement Cap'. This is the maximum allowed number of weekly LHR Air Transport Movements, that is arrivals plus departures.

The LHR ATMC for the current Summer Season is 9,564. All of these available slots are allocated. So using the infrastructure available to increase the number of possible operational LHR slots by, for example, operating mixed mode or using the post-06:00 time period for assigned slots, would not in practice result in any more arrival slots being allocated as the ATMC would be exceeded. (Note here that the ATMC for the Winter Timetable is always lower. Last Winter it was 9,262.)

There is another less theoretical limitation. It is departure slots. Adding additional arrival slots would require finding an equivalent number of additional departure slots. Only then could the additional arriving aircraft depart. But there are no such slots available with the current LHR infrastructure and legal operational constraints.

One correction to my original post. I note I identified a slot free period from 06:00 to 06:30. It should have read 06:00 to 06:20. Sorry for that.
 
fcogafa
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:55 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
It's off-topic, but that seems to be an inefficient use of LHR slots considering that the airport operates at about 99% of capacity. Not assigning any arrival slots for that 30 minute period to facilitate early arrivals must mean that the slots assigned to the flights that arrive early aren't being used on those days. They could land another 20 or so aircraft during that 30 minute period if they ignored the early arrival issue and let them hold.

The vast majority of the time the stacks are full at 0600L so there is no arrival capacity spare and it is the only hour when arrivals on westerlies are permitted on both runways to alleviate the backlog. Subsequently there are few departures scheduled during this hour. The Davies commission recommended that these aircraft be permitted to land earlier to avoid this issue but it is very politically sensitive and has been overruled by the government.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:56 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 28):
Subsequently there are few departures scheduled during this hour.

Yes. I believe (but welcome any correction) that in the relevant period, 06:00 to 06:20, only five departure slots are allocated, three at 06:00 and two at 06:05. Compare this with 18 allocated slots allocated an hour later between 07:00 and 07:20.

It may be of interest that one of the three earliest LHR departure slots at 06:00 is allocated for the operation of LX345 to ZRH.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 15):

Quoting goldcrest (Thread starter):
British Airways flights to Kuala Lumpur, which opens up new connecting routes around the region.

This statement indicates some sort of codeshare arrangement, probably with MH. Who else could provide connecting routes from KUL?

A deeper tie up between MH and BA, with possibly QR thrown into the mix would be a really good outcome.

BA would codeshare across all off MHs Asia network, as well as having access to PER, ADL, MEL, BNE, DRW, AKL and of course SYD which it already serves. I wonder if BA will consider dropping SYD and instead feeding pax onto MHs triple daily services. MH has two evening departure KUL-SYD which could easily take feed from BA.

MH could then also share onto BAs LHR network, the way QF previously did. Despite all that is being said about the EK/QF tie up, MH and BA could replicate this in a similar arrangement. Unserved markets like Spain, Italy etc would be picked up. Not necessarily high yield markets, but volume markets.

QR linking in with MH would also get access to unserved Australian markets, and also offer another alternative for BA to PER.
 
harim
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:30 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
Malaysia should never have ordered the A380 to begin with - it is way, way too large an aircraft for their network.

Partly due to keep up with the Joneses - i.e.if SQ buys, MH has to buy - maybe not in the future?
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:46 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 30):
BA would codeshare across all off MHs Asia network, as well as having access to PER, ADL, MEL, BNE, DRW, AKL and of course SYD which it already serves

Following the demise of the BA-QF JBA hasn't BA signed up for codeshares with CX to many if not all of theses destinations? Maybe BA and MH would focus on SE Asia, excluding Australasia.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:00 am

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 32):
Following the demise of the BA-QF JBA hasn't BA signed up for codeshares with CX to many if not all of theses destinations?

BA code shares with CX to Australia and New Zealand:


HKG-PER (BA4145)

HKG-MEL (BA4139)

HKG-BNE (BA4557)

HKG-SYD (BA4131, BA4133 and BA4137)


However BA still has a more extensive Australasia code share programme with QF:


SYD-PER (BA7453)

SYD-ADL (BA7436)

SIN-MEL (BA7402)
HKG-MEL (BA7410)
SYD-MEL (BA7441)

SIN-BNE (BA7406)
HKG-BNE (BA7408)
SYD-BNE (BA7458)

BNE-SYD (BA7455)

SYD-AKL (BA7417 and BA7421)


So from a BA perspective it is just the QF flights out of LHR that have been impacted by the end of the JSA.
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:11 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 33):
So from a BA perspective it is just the QF flights out of LHR that have been impacted by the end of the JSA.

I agree - but from the perspective of a BA/MH tie up the indernational angle is well covered by the existing BA/CX tie up except for ADL and DRW - though having flown to Oz with MH from LHR I'd be happy to see BA linking with MH as their service was excellent.
 
Eljonno
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 34):
I agree - but from the perspective of a BA/MH tie up the indernational angle is well covered by the existing BA/CX tie up except for ADL and DRW - though having flown to Oz with MH from LHR I'd be happy to see BA linking with MH as their service was excellent.

I flew ADL-HKG in June on a BA ticket, is that not a codeshare flight? The timings were a bit out when I got to HKG, as I had a 9hr connection for my BA flight to LHR though.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:47 pm

Quoting eljonno (Reply 35):
I flew ADL-HKG in June on a BA ticket, is that not a codeshare flight?

Sorry! Yes. It is BA4568.

I missed it because it only operates on Days 1, 3, 5 and 7 and I only checked out Day 4! Thanks.
 
Eljonno
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 pm

RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:35 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 36):
I missed it because it only operates on Days 1, 3, 5 and 7 and I only checked out Day 4! Thanks.

No worries!

As I said the timings were a bit out as well. I would have got to London much quicker if I had gone through to SYD on QF and connected to BA16 (but favoured flying back on a BA A380 instead).
 
Lofty
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:23 pm

RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:26 pm

I understand that KL has been in planning for over a year, so MH issues have not influenced BA to restart.
Also it is about giving people options you can go from the UK to OZ either with BA, BA & CX, BA & MH, BA & QF or BA & QR. With a number of the stop-over options it gives the customer the chance to choose rather than just SIN, BKK or HKG.
 
29erUSA187
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:34 pm

RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 30):

I don't think that BA would want to codeshare that deeply with MH right now. Their reputation is tarnished, so no airline should be too involved with them. Also, MH may liquidate or merge, and that would leave BA without its Asian connections and without a flight to SYD
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5084
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: BA Goes Back To KUL

Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:17 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 39):
without a flight to SYD

?????
There is no proposal, AFAIK, to cancel LHR-SIN-SYD.

Gemuser
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