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compensateme
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DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:29 pm

DL will be suspending SEA-HND effective 10/1; currently, it's scheduled to resume 3/29. This was very clearly a last-minute decision -- less than 10 days' notice and the flight wasn't removed from DL's electronic timetable. Makes you wonder how much money the route was losing...
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:38 pm

Which makes one ask how effective this push to make SEA a hub for the Pacific Rim is for DL?
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compensateme
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:59 pm

In fairness, SEA's role for DL has long been overstated on a.net. SEA is DL's western Asian gateway, which is why the build-up has focused on key western markets. While SEA hasn't been successful into secondary markets (KIX and HND), as a whole it's seemingly performed well for DL, per its investor relations communication. DTW will remain as the primary Asian gateway for DL's core network, hence why flights are flown with comparatively larger equipment. DL never intended to expand into SEA-RDU, SEA-IND, etc. although reading numerous postings on here would lead you into believing otherwise.
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avi8
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:03 pm

^^^ well they did say they want to eventually have around 150 flights per day and they're at 80 ish flights a day so they have to add flights to the east in some form or another. Maybe the plans are changing??
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:17 pm

This route was bleeding money, no real shock here. Nothing was getting better on the HND route seemed like HND was always overrated even if they were able to get a better time it seems rough to justify loosing so much money. Most americans just don't seem to know or care which airport they are flying into.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:18 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 1):
Which makes one ask how effective this push to make SEA a hub for the Pacific Rim is for DL?

It shouldn't. Haneda's problems (awful departure and arrival times) are unique to US-48 flights to Haneda. AA couldn't make JFK-HND work even after it dropped JFK-NRT.
 
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compensateme
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:22 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 3):
^^^ well they did say they want to eventually have around 150 flights per day and they're at 80 ish flights a day so they have to add flights to the east in some form or another. Maybe the plans are changing??

Doubling their SEA presence in less than three years is an over ambitious goal. There's tremendous cost in expanding the operation, and feeding it with long, thin flights that are essential overflying + siphoning traffic from multiple incumbent hubs would be an incredibly poor business decision. If DL is successful in doubling its operation, most of the traffic would could from Western markets (new revenue streams) + a few token key business markets to build its consumer base in SEA, if necessary. But IND, RDU, etc.? Not a chance.
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azjubilee
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:40 pm

How long until DL petitions the DOT to move, yet again, their traffic rights to HND? My guess is they'll continue to try to move this slot to HNL. I mean, DTW was to be successful, then it wasn't, then SEA was going to be better, now it's not. How's LAX been? At some point will DL quit, like AA? or keep brainwashing the DOT into allowing them to move the authority every time it seems to not work out? It seemed like overkill to operate HND and NRT (with a 744 for a bit) side by side. Perhaps the Tokyo bound passengers were preferring NRT and helping make it hard for HND to meet with success.

[Edited 2014-09-20 10:43:48]
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:50 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 5):
It shouldn't. Haneda's problems (awful departure and arrival times) are unique to US-48 flights to Haneda. AA couldn't make JFK-HND work even after it dropped JFK-NRT.

Exactly. People are going to read too much into this I think.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
How long until DL petitions the DOT to move, yet again, their traffic rights to HND? My guess is they'll continue to try to move this slot to HNL. I mean, DTW was to be successful, then it wasn't, then SEA was going to be better, now it's not. How's LAX been?

DL already tried to move LAXHND to HNLHND and that was rejected.
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LAXintl
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:09 pm

UA might send DL a thank you card. Their SFO-HND starts in Oct, so this can only help.

Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
This was very clearly a last-minute decision -- less than 10 days' notice and the flight wasn't removed from DL's electronic timetable. Makes you wonder how much money the route was losing...

Yes forward bookings must have been pretty terrible to pull the plug so late.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
How long until DL petitions the DOT to move, yet again, their traffic rights to HND?

I guess we will see next week.

They will need to serve a notice of dormancy since the cut is more than 90-days.
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azjubilee
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:24 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
DL already tried to move LAXHND to HNLHND and that was rejected.

They tried, in an unofficial round about way. They attempted to change the rules, during the competition for the AA slot, which UA subsequently was awarded. The DOT said no, essentially because what DL wanted was not relevant at the time. As LAXintl says, a dormancy filing will take place and we'll see where this goes.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:28 pm

HND wasn't in the flight attendant bid package which was released by Sept. 5, so it's been known a little bit longer than indicated.
 
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compensateme
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 12):
HND wasn't in the flight attendant bid package which was released by Sept. 5, so it's been known a little bit longer than indicated.

If that's the case, shame on DL for giving consumers impacted in October only days notice when they could've had at least a month. Pretty odd (unusual) that DL would leave immediate flights available for sale, despite knowing for more than two weeks they were going to be 86'd...
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Gabrielz
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:39 pm

My guess is that only UA will be able to make HND work because it is the only US carrier with enough Tokyo O&D traffic today to make HND make sense.

-G
 
Prost
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:40 pm

No, HA has been successful with HND haven't they?
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:45 pm

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 14):
My guess is that only UA will be able to make HND work because it is the only US carrier with enough Tokyo O&D traffic today to make HND make sense.

The issue is not demand. It's clearly the slot times providing less than ideal arrival and departure times at HND.

Quoting Prost (Reply 15):

Indeed.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 16):
The issue is not demand. It's clearly the slot times providing less than ideal arrival and departure times at HND.

Which is still a demand issue, ultimately.
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 13):
If that's the case, shame on DL for giving consumers impacted in October only days notice when they could've had at least a month. Pretty odd (unusual) that DL would leave immediate flights available for sale, despite knowing for more than two weeks they were going to be 86'd...

Meh...they can be rolled over onto NRT and not many will care.
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sr117
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 14):

My guess is that only UA will be able to make HND work because it is the only US carrier with enough Tokyo O&D traffic today to make HND make sense.

JAL's SFO-HND was moved to a schedule that mirrors NH's LAX-HND service to avoid the late night arrival time into HND, and let's not forget that it was switched to a smaller 787 from a 777.

Even JAL struggles with late night North America arrivals into HND (and they probably have better O/D traffic than UA), so UA will likely find it just as hard to make this work, especially with a larger 777. Even with NH feed on the Tokyo end, the flight arrives much too late to make any connection work, except for BKK and SIN.

The only routes that seem to make it are the ones with very big traffic numbers, like LAX and HNL.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:21 pm

Just received notification that my SEA-HND-SEA flights changed this morning for a trip in a few week.. rerouted via LAX (which is pointless on the outbound but still works on the return since I can have dinner with customers on Friday night and still get home Friday night. Bummer to see this go, it has certainly been a lot fuller in recent months vs. when it first started. For me (someone who travels SEA-> Tokyo) this flight was perfect... left later on Sunday afternoon to HND (i still had a weekend at home).. landed Monday night, 4 full days of meetings, even a dinner Friday night, then out Sat @ 1am, but home in time to sleep in my own bed on Friday night in Seattle. I honestly think one of the biggest issues with this fight was awareness... NOBODY KNEW ABOUT IT! My friends in Tokyo had no idea there was a HND->SEA flight and most of the people I work with thought the NRT flight was still the only option. I really never saw this marketed and nobody knew to even look for the flight. I turned many people on to the flight and everyone who started using it loved it. I will say that a 1am departure time along with crossing the dateline confused a lot of people when looking for the flight. If you looked for a flight on "Friday" it didn't show up, you had to search for "Saturday" even though you were leaving very late Friday (okay, Saturday) and still getting back to Seattle on Friday evening.
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting sr117 (Reply 19):
Even JAL struggles with late night North America arrivals into HND (and they probably have better O/D traffic than UA), so UA will likely find it just as hard to make this work, especially with a larger 777. Even with NH feed on the Tokyo end, the flight arrives much too late to make any connection work, except for BKK and SIN.

Keep in mind, UA has strength on both ends of the route thanks to their ANA JV. For JAL, AA does not help them much at all in the SFO end.

I think UA will be fine as the route is simply one of more than a dozen joint services across the Pacific with ANA and gives then a second West Coast-HND flight to market.
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 13):
If that's the case, shame on DL for giving consumers impacted in October only days notice

You would want to find out how many consumers were impacted before I can second that statement. Maybe the flights ahead were pretty empty.
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 2):
DL never intended to expand into SEA-RDU, SEA-IND, etc. although reading numerous postings on here would lead you into believing otherwise.

With everything that's gone on between DL/AS and their SEA build-up, wouldn't it be karma to see DL retrench? Maybe SEA-HKG will be next on the chopping block....SEA-ICN? Seat maps show plenty of availability this week for both.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 13):
If that's the case, shame on DL for giving consumers impacted in October only days notice when they could've had at least a month.

Yes, not very nice of them to continue to sell a flight that was internally known to no longer exist. Seems the DOT might have a thing or two to say about that.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Which is still a demand issue, ultimately.

The point is that there is NO lack of demand to Tokyo from any of the presently served gateway cities. The HND marketing times are less than desirable, causing people to choose different flights, which is the root of the issue. The demand to Tokyo has not changed.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Keep in mind, UA has strength on both ends of the route thanks to their ANA JV. For JAL, AA does not help them much at all in the SFO end.

I think UA will be fine as the route is simply one of more than a dozen joint services across the Pacific with ANA and gives then a second West Coast-HND flight to market.

True, they are in a good position to make it work. But with HND flights, history has shown that strong positions help little to counter-balance lousy schedules. AA's JFK-HND and DL's DTW-HND would have fared better otherwise.

Taking a gander at seat charts (I know, not the best indicator). It looks like UA will not fare any better than AA or DL in that regard. Unless they've got lots of unseated bookings, seems that they have an uphill struggle as well.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:00 pm

I still think that with the HND slot times, the only markets between the United States and haneda that are economically viable are HNL and GUM. The timings are perfect for HNL. Maybe even KOA could work.

Bad connection opportunities on both ends combined with terribly jet lag inducing departure and arrival times means that it was not really SEA that failed but rather HND.
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azjubilee
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 26):
The timings are perfect for HNL. Maybe even KOA could work.

Yeah... exactly why HAL was trying to win the slot award.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):

How long until DL petitions the DOT to move, yet again, their traffic rights to HND? My guess is they'll continue to try to move this slot to HN

No way the DOT should allow this. Put it up for rebid and let HA get their KOA flight like they want.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 24):
The demand to Tokyo has not changed.

It sort of has. Demand to Tokyo is down from peak highs, mainly because people who were connecting at HND and NRT are overflying it into India, China and Korea. That means the traffic that's left is more O&D focused, and HND is more desirable for O&D but only if you can get there at a decent time.

Quoting sr117 (Reply 25):
Taking a gander at seat charts (I know, not the best indicator). It looks like UA will not fare any better than AA or DL in that regard. Unless they've got lots of unseated bookings, seems that they have an uphill struggle as well.

Not really fare to compare since UA's service hasn't even started yet. Routes take time to build awareness. DL has had a year to build up advance bookings.

[Edited 2014-09-20 14:25:11]
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 2):
In fairness, SEA's role for DL has long been overstated on a.net.

I would agree with this statement. Every time DL has tried HND service it has not worked. I am wondering if passengers destined for TYO still prefer NRT. Or does tis mean that DL needs to upgrade the inflight service in the premium class to increase market share.

Other carriers have tried HND service and it has not panned out.

What is going on? TYO is a huge O & D traffic market. The proximity of HND to downtown Tokyo is much better than NRT which is about 60 miles from city center. This should be a no-brainer.

Granted, the time slots given to US carriers are terrible. Perhaps a little tit-for-tat is in order to catch Japanese aviation officials attention? Maybe ANA or JAL would like a 0220 IAD or JFK arrival slot and an 0555 departure?.
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting boilerla (Reply 28):
t sort of has. Demand to Tokyo is down from peak highs, mainly because people who were connecting at HND and NRT are overflying it into India, China and Korea. That means the traffic that's left is more O&D focused, and HND is more desirable for O&D but only if you can get there at a decent time.

I realize connecting traffic demand via Tokyo has decreased. That wasn't my point. My point was that traffic to Tokyo is what it is and that the marketing times to HND are the challenge, not the lack of demand as proposed in reply #14.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
Maybe ANA or JAL would like a 0220 IAD or JFK arrival slot and an 0555 departure?.

I don't get all the talk about the time slots being so bad. If you want to make a connection then yes, they probably are bad, but if you're just going to Tokyo they aren't too bad. You can get a full day of business in before leaving SEA at around 730p and you arrive in HND around 10p, in time to get to your hotel and get a nights sleep before the next day. Coming back you leave late enough to have a full day of business (including dinner) then arrive SEA in time to sleep in your own bed for the night. What's so wrong with that? If you were going to NRT and wanted to make a connection then yes, the times are bad, but if Tokyo is your destination these aren't so awful.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting sr117 (Reply 25):
Taking a gander at seat charts (I know, not the best indicator). It looks like UA will not fare any better than AA or DL in that regard. Unless they've got lots of unseated bookings, seems that they have an uphill struggle as well.

You wont see all the group bookings from agencies that have block of seats.

But first few weeks HND-SFO sector selling stronger then SFO-HND, though westbound leg surprising good C class bookings for being this far out (some days more than the SFO-NRT).

If fleet size allowed they would have launched with 787.

Imo, flight will be OK as it fits nicely within the grand scheme of the NH/UA JV and gives them two US HND-West Coast flights now.
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alfa164
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:48 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
Or does tis mean that DL needs to upgrade the inflight service in the premium class to increase market share.

   I usually fly to SE Asia via NRT, but I have taken the LAXHND flight a few times (connections to DPS are good). The inflight service to and from HND cannot compare to the service to and from NRT; Business Class selections are limited, and even the (famous!) ice cream sundae is missing.

I hate to admit I would choose to fly to a particular airport because of differences in meal service... but I do.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
I am wondering if passengers destined for TYO still prefer NRT

I think at least 50% of the passengers going to Tokyo don't know the difference - at least, until they get there.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 30):
I realize connecting traffic demand via Tokyo has decreased. That wasn't my point. My point was that traffic to Tokyo is what it is and that the marketing times to HND are the challenge, not the lack of demand

It isn't just connecting traffic; the O&D traffic to Japan had fallen (as the Japanese economy has suffered) over the past 2-3 years. Until Japan's economy picks itself up from their continuing malaise, traffic just won't return to previous levels.

That is one of the reasons both UA and DL have chosen to overfly Tokyo; they just don't need the seats to go there that they previously needed.
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LAXintl
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:05 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 33):
It isn't just connecting traffic; the O&D traffic to Japan had fallen (as the Japanese economy has suffered) over the past 2-3 years. Until Japan's economy picks itself up from their continuing malaise, traffic just won't return to previous levels.

Incorrect. Traffic at both HND and NRT are at record levels, and populations propensity to travel is increasing as low fare sector expands.

The decline of historic transit traffic via Japan has been more than replaced by organic local growth.

Also Japan is becoming ever more popular inbound tourism market having passed the 10mil mark for the first time in 2012.
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tu154m
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:17 pm

Not a surprise. Until US carriers get better times at HND, most of these routes will not be a big success. On a side note-does anyone else think that SEA will be PDX 2.0 for DL?? I remember back in the late 90s I think DL tried to build up PDX as an Asian gateway with the MD-11s-I forget which cities, but I think NGO, FUK, NRT, etc. It lasted maybe 2yrs. Does anyone see SEA doing this also?? I am just wondering where they will get room at SEA to operate all these flights-I havent been there in awhile, but I remember it being kind of a small airport for the city of its size. I also remember it being on a hill and surrounded by buildings-in other words, no room to expand. The Pacific NW is geographically well located, and does have a large Asian populous, but I just dont see this lasting........
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jetblue1965
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:48 pm

Quoting tu154m (Reply 35):

SOME US-HND can succeed if you're willing to land before 7, sit the plane at HND Tarmac the whole day, then leave after 10
 
NickLAX
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:55 pm

Am I missing something, isn't part of this RON issues? Limiting time on the ground in HND means AWFUL arrival/departure times. Contrast this with ANA's LAX-HND which arrives HND around 5AM and leaves around Midnight meaning transit is much easier vs a late PM arrival into HND.

This means an extended RON unless the carrier shuffles aircraft and also has an AM departure somewhere else (maybe mixing in HNL with a main 48 US flight to balance limited RON?)
 
commavia
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:57 pm

Not surprising, and it wouldn't shock me if this simply never returned next spring.

As with all the other HND attempts outside of the obvious Japanese O&D juggernaut that is Hawaii, this was likely doomed to fail from the start. The glut of capacity in the SEA-TYO market once SEA-NRT went 744, coupled with the overall declining reliance on NRT as a transfer point as SEA got more Asia nonstops, thus freeing up even more seats on SEA-NRT for O&D, like didn't help either.

Personally, I still think that United's SFO-HND does actually stand a chance - true, likely long-term as a 787 rather than 777, but still - because at least it can rely on the O&D and connectivity of the SFO market and hub, which thus far no other U.S.-HND market has been able to tap into.

Nonetheless, I agree that until U.S. carriers area allowed better slot times at HND, nothing there will make much sense.
 
Viscount724
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:38 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
Other carriers have tried HND service and it has not panned out.

What is going on? TYO is a huge O & D traffic market. The proximity of HND to downtown Tokyo is much better than NRT which is about 60 miles from city center. This should be a no-brainer.

Granted, the time slots given to US carriers are terrible.

The bad HND slot times are probably a factor. AC's YYZ-HND-YYZ flights (788) that started July 1 for most days the coming week have fewer seats open (in several cases close to full westbound) than the NRT 77W flights. AC has good slot times on both.

YYZ-HND 1300-1455 HND-YYZ 1740-1640
YYZ-NRT 1405-1555 NRT-YYZ 1750-1640
 
PWMRamper
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:40 am

As a non-rev who's taken this flight 3 times, it bums me out. It was great for a long weekend in Toyko. Leave on Friday, get there Saturday, spend all day Sunday in Tokyo and catch the Haneda flight home, back by Sunday night.

But loads were poor whenever I was on board.
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:58 am

Would it make sense for UA to go after this slot once it goes dormant to run GUM-HND?
 
questions
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 5):
Haneda's problems (awful departure and arrival times) are unique to US-48 flights to Haneda.
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
Granted, the time slots given to US carriers are terrible.
Quoting tu154m (Reply 35):
Until US carriers get better times at HND, most of these routes will not be a big success.
Quoting commavia (Reply 38):
Nonetheless, I agree that until U.S. carriers area allowed better slot times at HND, nothing there will make much sense.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):
The bad HND slot times are probably a factor.

What are the slot times for AA, DL and UA vs JL and NH?
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:10 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 29):
Or does tis mean that DL needs to upgrade the inflight service in the premium class to increase market share.

How is DL's inflight service lacking? What would you do to make it more competitive?

How is Delta perceived in the Asian markets? Wasn't NW considered a cheap carrier from a price point perspective?
 
Carpethead
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:17 am

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 41):
Would it make sense for UA to go after this slot once it goes dormant to run GUM-HND?

I would suppose they apply for it and run it with a 738. Versus HA applying for HND-KOA with a A332.

Quoting questions (Reply 42):
What are the slot times for AA, DL and UA vs JL and NH?

The same. JL & NH also abide by the same arrival & departure rules too.
By the way, AA no longer serves HND and UA's service starts next month.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:36 am

I can't believe the U.S. and Japan still haven't come to an agreement on daytime HND slots. Surely it is in the economic interest of both countries to strike a deal sooner rather than later. While operators from both countries are surely chomping at the bit to offer much better timed flights between Tokyo's preferred airport and prime U.S. (mainland) markets, Japan has temporarily awarded the HND slots designated for daytime U.S. flights to charter operators as negotiations continue.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...-charter-flights-at-haneda-airpo-0

The U.S. is expected to receive 4 daytime HND slots, which would then be allocated by the DOT to various U.S. airlines. DL can reasonably expect to get 1 or 2 such slots, so they'll probably apply for DTW-HND (first choice) and SEA-HND (second choice). The vampire slots will probably all end up being used for Hawaii and GUM routes thereafter.

It seems like this service has done so poorly that DL would rather let the slot go rather than continue taking heavy losses for the sake of brownie points that may (or may not) come in handy when daytime HND slots finally become available.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
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RWA380
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
It seemed like overkill to operate HND and NRT (with a 744 for a bit) side by side. Perhaps the Tokyo bound passengers were preferring NRT and helping make it hard for HND to meet with success.

Hawaii is the one US market where the huge predominance of travellers are Japan origin traffic, to those folks they know the difference between HND & NRT, and these same passengers are on holiday, not business timing isn't quite as important as convienience.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 31):
I don't get all the talk about the time slots being so bad. If you want to make a connection then yes, they probably are bad, but if you're just going to Tokyo they aren't too bad.

Except the trains from HND do not run during the mid-nite hours.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 33):
I think at least 50% of the passengers going to Tokyo don't know the difference - at least, until they get there

That is where you can tell if your travel agent is doing their job informing you of your options properly.

Quoting tu154m (Reply 35):
On a side note-does anyone else think that SEA will be PDX 2.0 for DL?? I remember back in the late 90s I think DL tried to build up PDX as an Asian gateway with the MD-11s-I forget which cities, but I think NGO, FUK, NRT, etc. It lasted maybe 2yrs.

It was a lot longer than 2 years my friend, read this article that explains the DL PDX hub operation. As I have said before about this article some facts are missing, like the DL flight to BOI from PDX that ran starting late 95. It's a decent read.

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/...es-history-in-portland-guest-blog/
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 46):
That is where you can tell if your travel agent is doing their job

Travel agent? What's a travel agent?

 
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5628
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting questions (Reply 47):
Travel agent? What's a travel agent?
I am a travel agent, well was, we are fewer & further between than just a decade ago. Unless you work for a decent sized company with a travel management company, or you are a savvy world traveler, most people don't use our services here in the US.



[Edited 2014-09-20 22:24:26]
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8739
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RE: DL SEA-HND Suspended Effective 10/1

Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:30 am

DL has been having HND problems long before their recent SEA build up. I don't think we can really judge the success or failure of DL's SEA push on SEA-HND. DL has already pulled/moved their HND slots from 2 other cities (IIRC) and they aren't failing at those cities

I wouldn't read too much into this

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