Will JFK Do A Renovation?

lesfalls · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:18 am

JFK is a pretty old,ugly and dirty compared to many other worldwide airports. Does the port aouthority have any plans on reedoing JFK (I was thinking no but just asking)?

Lesfalls

catiii · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting lesfalls (Thread starter):

With the exception of T2, what needs to be renovated? The oldest terminal (excluding T2) is from 1998. B6 is opening T5i shortly.

lesfalls · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:32 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 1):
what needs to be renovated?

About everything except terminal 4,5 and 8

catiii · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:46 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 2):

Ok so that's 1, 2, and 7. Putting aside 2 which is a disaster and which is gone after 2015, 1 opened in 1998, and 7 had a quarter billion dollar investment in 2003, and has another 30 million dollars going into it now. So not sure what more they can do...

1337Delta764 · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:52 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 1):
The oldest terminal (excluding T2) is from 1998

Actually, Terminal 7 opened in 1970. It isn't nearly as bad as T2, though since it has seen various renovations.

catiii · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):

You're right. It has, however, had almost $300M in investments since 2002.

jfklganyc · Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:58 am

I am also puzzled as to what the OP meant

In last 20 years:

-T1
-T4
-T5
-T7 renovated
-T8
-T3 gone
-T6 gone
New parking garages for T1/2/3,4, 5, 7 and 8
AirTrain
New Control Tower
New Power Plant
Redone 31L
Redone 22L
New Roadway system
New taxiway bridges for 380

Traffic increase from 30 million to 50 million pax

What else can you really want from an airport in 2 decade span? Most in the last decade.

Andie007 · Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:03 am

Where is it ugly and dirty?

I mean, it's not the perfect airport for connections, but overall it's pretty fine (esp. when you fly P2P)

global2 · Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:20 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
-T3 gone
-T6 gone

-T9 is also gone (originally the United Airlnes terminal)--now overtaken by the
new, and much larger, T8.

tlecam · Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:37 am

Odd question. If you have flown in and out of JFK regularly in recent years, it's perenially under construction somewhere.

cpl22586 · Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:01 pm

The Port Authority is also in the process of reconstructing runway 4L-22R. They are currently in the process of installing new high speed taxiways. They are also widening the runway from 150-200 feet to comply with the needs of group VI aircraft. Concrete will replace the existing asphalt. Construction of new taxiway exits leading to the central terminal area, new taxiway access points to the north end of the runway, and other taxiway modifications. Replacing and upgrading communications/navigational aid and electrical systems. Construction of 728 feet of runway pavement on the north side of the runway to maintain departure length.

Jetblue is opening T5i in the middle of November

Delta is also in the process of constructing phase 2 of their T4 project.

HKG212 · Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:58 am

I'm afraid even the phrasing of the question shows the poster knows very little about JFK... possibly not realizing there is no such thing as "JFK" to describe in these terms, but rather an assortment of terminals.

That said, the new/renovated terminals were mostly designed and built under tight budgets, with all sorts of compromises, and are not aging well. Nothing in JFK (or in the US for that matter) comes even close to new-generation terminals like LHR T5 in terms of quality.

norm1153 · Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:04 am

I think SFO is pretty nice. A comfortable stroll through the terminals, while waiting for a flight. Tasteful exhibits, reasonable cleanliness.

TWA772LR · Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:16 am

I've never flown into JFK, but I've read enough on here to get an idea.

In my way-non-expert opinion, I believe they should connect ALL the terminals with a giant horseshoe shape concourse airside to add more gates, capacity, and to make easier connectivity. They can complete the circle by adding a people mover over the road from T1 to T8. I don't believe the air train is airside, but if it is then disregard my post.

But PANYNJ should think about a land reclamation project for another 13/31 runway allowing for 3 parallel approaches at the same time and takeoffs.

Those additions would make JFK a beast of an airport and a very good connecting airport.

jfk777 · Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:23 pm

The terminals at JFK are ias individual as the airlines using them. Terminal 5, Jet Blue, is going to be very modern and slick. T7 is going to be very serious and reserved since BA is the anchor airline. T4 is like the United Nations since all kinds of airlines use it. What will eventually happen at JFK is we wil get terminals by alliances. T1 was built by 4 airlines from all 3 alliances and they are not giving up their customizations. In most major airports we have some alliances using the same termial or areas by alliance.

JFK has some great development possilities with if BA moves to AA T8 for the T7 sight and the old T 2 & 3 sights will be built on. JFK by 2020 wil be different then now.

lesfalls · Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:44 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 11):
That said, the new/renovated terminals were mostly designed and built under tight budgets, with all sorts of compromises, and are not aging well. Nothing in JFK (or in the US for that matter) comes even close to new-generation terminals like LHR T5 in terms of quality.

Thank you ,This is what i meant in terms of rennovation.

questions · Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting CPL22586 (Reply 10):
The Port Authority is also in the process of reconstructing runway 4L-22R. They are currently in the process of installing new high speed taxiways. They are also widening the runway from 150-200 feet to comply with the needs of group VI aircraft. Concrete will replace the existing asphalt. Construction of new taxiway exits leading to the central terminal area, new taxiway access points to the north end of the runway, and other taxiway modifications. Replacing and upgrading communications/navigational aid and electrical systems. Construction of 728 feet of runway pavement on the north side of the runway to maintain departure length.

Wow. A ton of infrastructure upgrades that most passengers will not see/understand but will be part of the JFK experience.

Quoting CPL22586 (Reply 10):
Delta is also in the process of constructing phase 2 of their T4 project.

When is phase 2 scheduled to be completed?

Has funding for phase 3 (expansion of T4A) been approved? If so, when is construction expected to begin and be completed?

Quoting norm1153 (Reply 12):
I think SFO is pretty nice. A comfortable stroll through the terminals, while waiting for a flight. Tasteful exhibits, reasonable cleanliness.

The International terminal, T2 and T3 are nice. SFO is in the process of redevelopment/reconstruction/renovation. A new ATC tower, post security access to all terminals, and a new Sky Club in T1/Boarding Area C are currently under construction. The program will eventually deliver a refreshed T1/Boarding Area C, a new T1/Boarding Area B with 24 gates, and new checkin, security, etc areas. Scheduled for completion.

More info and proposed conceptual renderings can be found here:
http://www.cmaanorcal.org/pdfs/112912_sfo_presentation.pdf

corinthians · Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting CPL22586 (Reply 10):
he Port Authority is also in the process of reconstructing runway 4L-22R. They are currently in the process of installing new high speed taxiways. They are also widening the runway from 150-200 feet to comply with the needs of group VI aircraft. Concrete will replace the existing asphalt. Construction of new taxiway exits leading to the central terminal area, new taxiway access points to the north end of the runway, and other taxiway modifications. Replacing and upgrading communications/navigational aid and electrical systems. Construction of 728 feet of runway pavement on the north side of the runway to maintain departure length.

I thought that was postponed because of a lawsuit from the residents in that area. And Gov. Cuomo wanted more "studies" done to placate the residents of South Queens.

brilondon · Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
But PANYNJ should think about a land reclamation project for another 13/31 runway allowing for 3 parallel approaches at the same time and takeoffs.

Those additions would make JFK a beast of an airport and a very good connecting airport.

I am not sure you can expand JFK or reclaim any more land as it is in the middle of a bird sanctuary. Correct me if I am wrong.

cpl22586 · Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting corinthians (Reply 17):

I thought that was postponed because of a lawsuit from the residents in that area. And Gov. Cuomo wanted more "studies" done to placate the residents of South Queens.

it is currently under construction. The Northern 1171 feet of 4L-22R are torn up and they actually have a onsite concrete plant.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
But PANYNJ should think about a land reclamation project for another 13/31 runway allowing for 3 parallel approaches at the same time and takeoffs.

It would be great to have 3 parallel approaches but with all the surrounding homes and Jamaica Bay just dont see it happening.

by738 · Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Any time ive been to JFK, normally BA T7 ive never been impressed so can see what the OP means.

N62NA · Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
PANYNJ should think about a land reclamation project for another 13/31 runway allowing for 3 parallel approaches at the same time and takeoffs.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 18):
I am not sure you can expand JFK or reclaim any more land as it is in the middle of a bird sanctuary. Correct me if I am wrong.

Environmental reasons, correct. Will never be done.

JFK has some very nice terminals and a few not so nice ones. The not so nice ones will get improved over time.

corinthians · Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 18):
I am not sure you can expand JFK or reclaim any more land as it is in the middle of a bird sanctuary. Correct me if I am wrong.

Quoting CPL22586 (Reply 19):
It would be great to have 3 parallel approaches but with all the surrounding homes and Jamaica Bay just dont see it happening.

There was a study about demolishing some of the northern cargo buildings and make a 13/31 runway right above 13L/31R. I heard a lot of those buildings aren't really in use. So, there would be some room.

Quoting CPL22586 (Reply 19):
it is currently under construction. The Northern 1171 feet of 4L-22R are torn up and they actually have a onsite concrete plant.

Wow...I didn't know they started construction already. So, 4L/22R is not being used at all at the moment? How long is construction supposed to last?

WA707atMSP · Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 13):
But PANYNJ should think about a land reclamation project for another 13/31 runway allowing for 3 parallel approaches at the same time and takeoffs.

In the late 1960s, there were plans to fill in Jamaica Bay, with another 13 / 31 located at Rockaway Beach, and a new terminal complex between the new runway and the north shore of the bay. This proposal, along with a plan to build a supertanker terminal in Sandy Hook, New Jersey (at what's now the Sandy Hook unit of Gateway National Recreation Area), a plan to build a freeway across lower Manhattan, and a proposal to build a bridge across Long Island Sound between Rye, New York and Oyster Bay, Long Island, were all cancelled for environmental reasons - and these projects' cancellation is considered to be one of the first victories of the then-new environmental movement.

gaystudpilot · Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:33 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 23):
In the late 1960s, there were plans to fill in Jamaica Bay, with another 13 / 31 located at Rockaway Beach, and a new terminal complex between the new runway and the north shore of the bay. This proposal, along with a plan to build a supertanker terminal in Sandy Hook, New Jersey (at what's now the Sandy Hook unit of Gateway National Recreation Area)... were all cancelled for environmental reasons - and these projects' cancellation is considered to be one of the first victories of the then-new environmental movement.

And... left the NYC area with a nice nude beach, Gunnison, at Sandy Hook.

questions · Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:39 am

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 24):
And... left the NYC area with a nice nude beach, Gunnison, at Sandy Hook.

Oh wow. That was the first nude beach I went to while on a visit to NYC. Not only was it amazing to be hanging out on the beach totally nek... but it was so cool when British Airways Concorde flew over on approach to JFK. Just about everyone on the beach turned to watch and was in awe of the beautiful site! So amazing!!

aajfksjubklyn · Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:57 am

Maybe he meant LGA? JFK has never looked so good. From the landscaping, new terminals etc.

cpl22586 · Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:23 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 23):
Wow...I didn't know they started construction already. So, 4L/22R is not being used at all at the moment? How long is construction supposed to last?

4L/22R is still open it is just shortened at the northern end. The northern 1171 feet is closed. The current declared distances for 4L are 9780 Feet TORA. 9780 TODA. 22R TORA is 10130 feet and TODA is 10130 feet.

Construction is scheduled to be completed in December of 2015.

"The project, which was started in July, will be complete in December 2015. It will take place in three stages so that three runways will be operational at all times. A temporary concrete plant will be located on site at JFK to minimize the need for concrete trucks to use major nearby highways, thus reducing traffic and emissions in the neighboring areas."

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/jfk-reconstruction.html