Amsterdam
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:36 pm

Delta can acquire 49% of AFKL.
Even better would be to seperate KLM from AF with Delta owning 49% of KLM.
Everyone can keep codesharing and jointventuring together.
But the best option would be if AF would really reorganise well and become healthy again, so AF and KLM could stay together and prosper.
But dont see that happening. A much larger Transavia will not be enough.
One small example. KLM aircraft at CDG get pushed back from the gate by at least two people on the ground.
In AMS all the push backs are done by 1 person.
So this is already one example of twice the amount of people doing work that 1 man can do.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:38 pm

Yes outcome is almost guarantee for future action if up coming negotiations do not solve the basic issue at hand.

But at end, AF saw how painful and costly this was, so might act more sensibly going forward.

I would recommend people think twice about utilizing AF in the mean time until this is clarified as industrial action could flare up at any minute (2-day notice).
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par13del
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:42 pm

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 100):
Delta can acquire 49% of AFKL.

I would not expect that to happen, not saying its not legal but I would be shocked if multiple roadblocks were not put in place, including American carriers complaining.

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 100):
Even better would be to seperate KLM from AF with Delta owning 49% of KLM.

Is that even possible, assumption being the evil that is it, I assume when the initial merger was done a few poison pills were put in to prevent such a breakup without serious damage.
 
skiaplg
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:20 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 102):
I assume when the initial merger was done a few poison pills were put in to prevent such a breakup without serious damage.

Probably. AF-KLM is not going to be splitting up anytime soon. It's been ten years, so it's likely that on top of any poison pills, a breakup would be hugely costly to both.

The pilots clearly lost, and no one is really going to be crying much over it - the public has no sympathy for them. Neither does the rest of AF staff. Hopefully after this, de Juniac will have a much stronger position, the changes that need to be made will be.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 44):
Is there a metal neutral JV between AF and DL?
Unless the DL pilots implement a sympathy action, it is in DL and AF best interest for DL to do their best to accommodate the pax. The action continues to hurt AF as DL cannot pick up all the slack, just the routes to the US that they both fly, the effects would be minima,l but for the pax on those routes the less inconvenience the more likely they are to stay AF clients.

Doesn't work that way.
you aren't going to get union members to fly other union members routes.

Let me put it another way, If DALPA wouldn't let Delta fly extra flights during the Comair strike(and they pretty much hated the Comair pilots) then you aren't going to see them fly AF flying.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 47):
There is only so much DL can overtly do. Yes a random upgauge here or there, but things like extra sections which are clearly meant to replace strike flying would create host of issues for DL itself with its pilots.

How do you think ALPA would view AF operating extra sections to the US if DL was on strike?
Its a can of worms not worth opening for DL imo.

              

Not only that but most unions have it in their contracts that you can't force them to fly struck work.
 
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:59 pm

I think we will see Transavia grow a lot in NL, where certain routes will be flown by Transavia only (for instance, the more holiday oriented routes are flown by Transavia, and also get to act as feeders for the long-haul network). Don't forget it was aquired by KL many years ago.

Here's a question though. I am not sure if my theory is correct. Transavia can grow to a certain number of planes, but that's the French Transavia, not the Dutch right?? So in theory,Transavia Holland could fly routes like NCE-AMS, TLS-AMS. And perhaps also do a AMS-NCE-LIS routing?
 
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:52 pm

Statistic for Sunday

Scheduled: 796
Cancelled: 573
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Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 105):
Here's a question though. I am not sure if my theory is correct. Transavia can grow to a certain number of planes, but that's the French Transavia, not the Dutch right?? So in theory,Transavia Holland could fly routes like NCE-AMS, TLS-AMS. And perhaps also do a AMS-NCE-LIS routing?

You're absolutely correct.
That is one of the trump aces Juniac had at his disposal... Please note that Transavia Holland is double the size of T.France : It is because they have no such agreements on size / utilization AF does with its pilots.
And NCE-AMS already exists...
But...

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 105):
certain routes will be flown by Transavia only (for instance, the more holiday oriented routes are flown by Transavia, and also get to act as feeders for the long-haul network).

We have to be careful here : The AF and KL short haul networks are very different : the problem is that France has an internal market which is well defended against the likes of EasyJet and Vueling, if only through AF group penetration and a still very advantageous slot allocation ( grandfather's rights have never earned a better name elsewhere ).
LoCo penetration in France is the lowest in Europe - see the vid I posted earlier .
T.Holland has no such market : they naturally develop outside the Netherlands and poach on others' domestic / leisure / VFR... etc... market.
In the long run, it wouldn't be very difficult to integrate T.Holland program into the hub at AMS... theoretically.

The big question is : "would premium class passengers accept to fly a no frill high density cabin on part of their long journey ?" So far, nobody has a clear answer... so nobody has run that risk yet.

This Transavia Interactive network Map gives a very good idea of the possibilities the Group could develop :
- The northernmost base is Amsterdam
- Transavia is at the moment concentrated on the southern sunny routes : all the close Atlantic isles are served, along with the Mediterranean destinations
- Transavia is not present in Germany, the UK, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe - bar Prague and Budapest.

Strategically, Transavia development is a mlatter of survival and grwth for the Group.

Now compare the above map with EasyJet Route Map.
It is obvious that the war has already started as these two networks overlap each other a lot ; the main difference is the UK... What the maps don't say is that EasyJet uses six times more aircraft , a situation Juniac wants to change quickly.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 101):
the basic issue at hand.

Pray remind us what the strike was about ( in your opinion, of course ! )

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 101):
But at end, AF saw how painful and costly this was

So in your own words, the pilots didn't see that it was ?

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 101):
industrial action could flare up at any minute (2-day notice).

Face it : the pilots have lost just about everything, including credibility and no one in France except themselves, the communist party and probably Mr proletarian melanchon-ist sees them as defenders of the French jobs against the dastardly delocalisationist capîtalist Juniac.
Some press excerpts : "... a social murder by a corporatist rectionnary union .." ( BFM)
..." a conflict for naught as they obtained nothing..."
"A strike... and for what ?"
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:24 am

Widebody fleet cancellation from Monday Sep.29

AF066 LAX 388
AF636 IAH 77W
AF192 BLR 332
AF422 BOG 343
AF226 DEM 332
AF682 ATL 772
AF3832 LOS 332
AF958 DLA 772
AF514 ABV 332
AF028 IAD 388
AF548 NIM 332
AF416 ORD 332
AF438 MEX 744
AF3994 DXB 77W
AF378 DTW 343
AF520 BSB 772
AF292 KIX 77W
AF072 LAX 772
AF946 HAV 77W
AF702 ABJ 772
AF356 YYZ 772
AF090 MIA 77W
AF166 BKK 77W
AF718 DKR 77W
AF010 JFK 772
AF348 YUL 77W
AF246 KUL 772
AF442 GIG 77W
AF274 HND 77W
AF704 ABJ 772
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OO-VEG
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 107):
The big question is : "would premium class passengers accept to fly a no frill high density cabin on part of their long journey ?" So far, nobody has a clear answer... so nobody has run that risk yet.

Lufthansa has a few long haul routes from DUS. They let germanwings feed these lines. I think that's a fair test for the german market. How it will work out in France? I think they are not that different though there is a point when lcc is not favourable anymore. A 50 minute flight won't be the dealbreaker.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:40 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 107):
Face it : the pilots have lost just about everything, including credibility and no one in France except themselves, the communist party and probably Mr proletarian melanchon-ist sees them as defenders of the French jobs against the dastardly delocalisationist capîtalist Juniac.
Some press excerpts : "... a social murder by a corporatist rectionnary union .." ( BFM)
..." a conflict for naught as they obtained nothing..."
"A strike... and for what ?"

Good! I have nothing but praise for Juniac for winning against the pilots. What the pilots have failed to realise is that their employer is not a charity. The company should run profitably, keeping jobs local shouldn't be very high on the priority list. When the day comes (hopefully soon!) that crews won't be required in as high numbers, will pilots strike because they're being replaced by machines?

I think what the pilots have done over the past two weeks is irresponsible and selfish and they most certainly deserve no respect from anyone that was inconvenienced by their self-interest.
 
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:47 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 107):
The big question is : "would premium class passengers accept to fly a no frill high density cabin on part of their long journey ?" So far, nobody has a clear answer... so nobody has run that risk yet.

I don't know how it would play out in Europe, but in the US, DL tried this a decade ago with their "song" product. They replaced the first/business class products on many flights, including a good portion of the important JFK->LAX/SFO/SEA routes, with a 100% all economy aircraft. The premium passengers said..."hey, what's this? Where is my first class seat??" and then proceeded to flee from DL as quickly as they could, running over to AA/UA/CO. DL was left with mostly the backpacker and college kid crowd to fill its planes.

So, just as back then, when DL tried to fly a business class passenger NCE (dl) JFK (song) SFO, and because of this, those passengers left DL to go to different airlines, I think the outcome would be the same if AF tried to use a no frill cabin on their important feeder routes into CDG. It took DL quite a number of years to recover from that mistake, and to earn those business passengers back.

On top of all this, it looks like that the recent trend has been in putting back premium seats, not taking them out. Many of the smaller regional jets in the US have gone from all economy to having a few rows of first class/premium, GOL in Brasil is putting in a comfort class, jetBlue putting in Mint, and so on.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:45 am

Iberia is using Iberia Express to fill their long.haul ops from Madrid. I connected from DUS via MAD on some recent flights. With the MAD-DUS leg been flown by IB Express.
 
varig md-11
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:05 am

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 105):
So in theory,Transavia Holland could fly routes like NCE-AMS, TLS-AMS. And perhaps also do a AMS-NCE-LIS routing?

Exactly what I was thinking.

A few years ago I used to fly HV on AMS-BOD-AMS and then AMS-MRS-AMS

If De Juniac has troubles with AF clown pilots and their objecting to the development of TO he could maybe have HV flying AMS-NCE-MAD-NCE-AMS for example. Planes and crews would be Dutch registered and again, because of these Melenchono-communist unions, France would lose opportunities to create jobs.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 108):
Widebody fleet cancellation from Monday Sep.29

Why the hell are you displaying everytime the number of long hauls cancelled?
You're not AF staff (so you say) and you're in favor of the strike: so what's your point? is it so funny to advocate the strike with your Leninist point of you and show to the world how ridiculous we are in France?
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OO-VEG
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 113):
Why the hell are you displaying everytime the number of long hauls cancelled?

Let's not fight here. The cancelation overview had been objective information on the impact of the strike.
 
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:49 am

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 114):
Let's not fight here. The cancelation overview had been objective information on the impact of the strike.

Objective information about cancellation rate we have plenty in the news and on AF site
Furthemore AF is sending email & sms to those directly concerned about the issue.

What I don't understand is the sick need some people have to overheat a discussion from the start of the thread, pointing out "lack of dialogue" from AF management and "consequences of this lack of dialogue from management" and how "everything would be solved if we listened to pilots"

This is called propaganda, not information.

And I am not the only one to realize extreme pro-union puppets are "animating" the thread
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deltal1011man
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:51 am

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 110):
When the day comes (hopefully soon!) that crews won't be required in as high numbers, will pilots strike because they're being replaced by machines?

One can only hope that it happens to a good guy like yourself first.  
Quoting ocracoke (Reply 111):

I don't know how it would play out in Europe, but in the US, DL tried this a decade ago with their "song" product. They replaced the first/business class products on many flights, including a good portion of the important JFK->LAX/SFO/SEA routes, with a 100% all economy aircraft. The premium passengers said..."hey, what's this? Where is my first class seat??" and then proceeded to flee from DL as quickly as they could, running over to AA/UA/CO. DL was left with mostly the backpacker and college kid crowd to fill its planes.

Don't forget TED for United.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 113):
You're not AF staff (so you say) and you're in favor of the strike: so what's your point?

some of us think it adds to the discussion

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 114):
Let's not fight here. The cancelation overview had been objective information on the impact of the strike

              

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 113):
is it so funny to advocate the strike with your Leninist point of you and show to the world how ridiculous we are in France?

Plenty of people across the globe that support the AF pilots and find this anything but funny, FWIW
 
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:04 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 116):
Plenty of people across the globe that support the AF pilots and find this anything but funny, FWIW

The purpose was not to be funny at all.

Support AF pilots all you want that's fine

I don't. Like most AF staff don't. Like most French people don't

You have the right to express yourself and I do too
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deltal1011man
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:11 am

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 115):
And I am not the only one to realize extreme pro-union puppets are "animating" the thread

Worse so than the extreme anit-union in this thread? I think not.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 117):
Support AF pilots all you want that's fine

Well thank you.      

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 117):
I don't

Don't think I said anything about that but good for you i guess.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 117):
Like most AF staff don't

would love to see that data

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 117):
Like most French people don't

or this data

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 117):
You have the right to express yourself and I do too

        
Well once again, glad to have your blessings but how are you going to say this when your calling out others for posting valid info in this thread?            
 
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 118):
Worse so than the extreme anit-union in this thread? I think not.

Since you seem to care about unions, for your info I am an active union member for more than 10 years. But when it's going overboard, it really is.

Do you know the reason of all this travesty of a strike at least?

AF pilot union wouldnt accept their guys would go to Transavia under another contract with another union: they spilled the beans and admitted in the press it would be a loss of control on their guys.
Please, what is it? the moon sect?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 118):
would love to see that data

You probably don't read or watch French media but our local CNN (BFM TV) released a poll where 65% of French population stated they didn't support pilots strike.

That's only a poll but don't count on people to support cry babies earning 13000$ a month for 50 hours (when they are supposed to fly 70)

Also there were many demonstrations of AF staff, downtown Paris and at CDG, either blue collars and white collars, where they were name calling pilots and where people expressed their being sick and tired of being put in danger because of sellfish pilots action.

You want data? a unionist ground staff at CDG revealed 7% of AF staff is putting in jeopardy the collective efforts of transform 2015.

Other data? main pilot union leaders appeared as "on vacation" or "training" or "union activity" on the roster so that they were not counted as "on strike"
This way for each day of "training" or "vacation" they were getting paid while calling the others to strike.

But tha'ts usual isn't it?
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Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:27 am

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 119):
Do you know the reason of all this travesty of a strike at least?

I have asked the same question a few times...
No response..
BTW, Varig, I can't send you messages. Send me your email, pls.
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vv701
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:14 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 113):
Why the hell are you displaying everytime the number of long hauls cancelled?

Quite. This thread is titled 'Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2'. It is obviously totally wrong for it to include any factual information about the strike and its impact. There is probably so much more biased conjecture that is yet to be expounded here and the facts would just get in the way.

So let's ban all actual facts about the strike and its impact from this thread.   
 
Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:59 pm

Facts ?
Yes, of course.
Unfortunately, these look suspiciously like victory yells from one poster.
I just ignore them.
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LAXintl
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:49 pm

I think its great someone is taking the time to post statistics on cancellations which allow us to gauge the massive impact the strike has had.

Its also amazing some posters here are complain about the materials being posted by some, yet in return they themselves don't contribute anything positive with all their derogatory comments.

Anyhow - thanks mercure1 for staying on top and being willing/able to post daily factual statistical update in the strikes impact. This is information I don't see listed in my media sources so its nice to see the numbers to get a sense for events.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 123):
they themselves don't contribute anything positive with all their derogatory comments.

Is that a confession ?
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factsonly
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 107):
In the long run, it wouldn't be very difficult to integrate T.Holland program into the hub at AMS... theoretically.

The big question is : "would premium class passengers accept to fly a no frill high density cabin on part of their long journey ?" So far, nobody has a clear answer... so nobody has run that risk yet.

The integration of HV into the KL hub at AMS has been happening for some years already, as KL codeshares on HV flights to destinations KL does not serve itself.

Here are some examples:
- AMS-NAP
- AMS-PSA
- AMS-ALC
- AMS-AGP
- AMS-OPO
- AMS-VLC
- AMS-CMN (yes longer distances as well)

The HV product is below KLM Y-class and yet C-Class pax. accept the downgrade as it saves them significant time and money. Remember that these are destinations with little C-Class traffic, so it is not a major issue. Pax accept it, as it is particularly useful for long-haul connections to/from these cities, as there are relatively few alternatives.
 
Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:55 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 125):
The HV product is below KLM Y-class and yet C-Class pax. accept the downgrade as it saves them significant time and money. Remember that these are destinations with little C-Class traffic, so it is not a major issue. Pax accept it, as it is particularly useful for long-haul connections to/from these cities, as there are relatively few alternatives.

Very true : It's hard to distinguish the point to point to the hub feeding business on these flights. (I have already made some commenbts on that network )

Did KL pilots strike against it ?
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mercure1
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:18 pm

Air France cancellation statistics for Monday Sep.29

Scheduled: 812
Cancelled: 491


For those that inquire as why I post widebody cancellations, its because likely not very interesting to post info about 500+ shorthaul fleet route cancels as they are very repetitive, but rather more interesting and impactful to see the longhaul fleet effect.

But if you desire, for next strike I will ensure every cancelled rotation is duly provided and listed in such threads. Merci for guidance.
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Amsterdam
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:20 pm

If you have agreements with any union, you have to honor those agreements.
Thats what men do.
If you want to amend an agreement you have to talk about it.
I wasnt there, but it might be that the AF top has launched plans that went against existing agreements.
It doesnt matter whether these new plans are good or not, if you give your word, you can not take it back onesided.
If the KLM top would do this, the Dutch pilots also wouldnt take it.
I dont know if this is what happened, but if this did happen, then its understandable why the french guys are so angry.
 
varig md-11
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 121):
It is obviously totally wrong for it to include any factual information about the strike and its impact
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 123):
Anyhow - thanks mercure1 for staying on top and being willing/able to post daily factual statistical update in the strikes impact. This is information I don't see listed in my media sources so its nice to see the numbers to get a sense for events.

You guys really don't get it.

instead of concentrating on one "fact" please read the posts of this precise individual you confide in so much from the start of the thread instead of biting in the bait
He rejoices the scale of the strike is so massive and he's taking nasty pleasure in heralding the arm it is doing since his aims is to take pilots side only.

And spare me the "derogatory" part: I didn't say anything derogatory for a start, and we French are not so prim and proper to find something derogatory in a heated discussion. We have a different culture and say things differently
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LAXintl
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 129):
You guys really don't get it.

Sure we do. You don't like his/her opinion.

But everyone is entitled to one, and as all disputes there are two sides the the debate. AF and its management are certainly no saints.

Atleast in addition to personal commentary which we are all entitled to, he/she has shared factual data as well in this thread.
It been very interesting to see the numbers and the impact the strike has had on AF operations and nice to see such provided here as its 100% to the topic of this thread.
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deltal1011man
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 119):

You probably don't read or watch French media but our local CNN (BFM TV) released a poll where 65% of French population stated they didn't support pilots strike.

Which means nothing. I can make a poll where 100% of the the voters support the Strike.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 119):
AF pilot union wouldnt accept their guys would go to Transavia under another contract with another union: they spilled the beans and admitted in the press it would be a loss of control on their guys.

Uh....duh?
Do you understand the point of a union? It isn't to help the other employees of AF and it isn't to sell its own members up the river for the company.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 129):
You guys really don't get it.

No we get it. You don't like our opinions on the matter thus they are worthless and shouldn't be in this thread. however it is completely okay for you to express your opinion on the matter because you simply believe that you are right, we are wrong.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 119):
Since you seem to care about unions, for your info I am an active union member for more than 10 years.

Good for you.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 119):
But when it's going overboard, it really is.

you became the final judge on this exactly when?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 130):

Post of perfection. Very nice.
 
MD-90
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:50 pm

Has it ended yet?

My church was affected by this because we had a mission trip to Niger completely canceled last week. Air France couldn't get them there, period, and apparently wasn't able to rebook them (I'm not a member of the team so I don't know the exact details). They were supposed to leave on the 20th, then it was pushed all the way back to the 25th, then AF canceled their tickets completely.
 
vv701
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:26 am

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 129):
You guys really don't get it.

How very sad that an individual is happy to use this forum to express a totally valid opinion but wishes to sensor the publication of factual data that does not support that opinion.

Welcome back to the dark ages.
 
Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:22 pm

I would have agreed with you on a similar event.
Point is : AF OCC publishes the list of cancelled flights everyday at 11:00 hr.
Was that list the basis for what we saw on this thread ?
I wonder.

Second : there are still quite a lot of work in order to get back to normal operations - even more when the other union is still striking...
I' ve waited this far... and no... our so interested in the common man's information poster is now silent.

So, my feeble brain and my especially skeptical mind tell me it was just another form of propaganda.
Contrail designer
 
OO-VEG
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:31 pm

Earlier there were posts of extra capacity by Delta to compensate fir the high demand. It was stated that this wouldn't happen. Interesting is that yesterday there was a 744 leaving ATL for CDG. Not sureif that's a normal rotation or that delta is now helping out??
 
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par13del
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 135):
Not sureif that's a normal rotation or that delta is now helping out??

If the strike is over and the AF pilots and management request assistance from the JV partner why would they not assist?
 
OO-VEG
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Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:39 am

A letter from AF to the affected passengers: source af

 
"Dear Sir/Madam,
The strike action which started on Monday 15 September has finally come to an end. We would once again like to offer our sincere apologies for the difficulties caused by this situation.

Beyond dissatisfaction, many of you have sent us messages of encouragement and support for which we thank you most sincerely.

As this conflict has affected your activities and your lives, we owe you an explanation.

The air transport market has changed, your travel habits have changed and it is up to us to adapt. There is increasing demand for low-cost flights in Europe and France, and while our offering was insufficiently adapted to this segment, our competitors have been taking advantage of this growth.

We are now going to step up development of Transavia, the Air France-KLM Group’s low-cost airline in order to compete with our rivals on a level playing field. This project is vital for our Group, which is why, even if we made every effort for the strike to end as quickly as possible, we had no choice but to move forward with this plan.

The development of Transavia in France is good news for you as, in addition to Air France and HOP!, we plan to extend our product line and better meet the needs of customers seeking low fares while taking advantage of the quality services provided by the Air France-KLM Group. This will also be the opportunity for you to discover new destinations.

The development of Transavia in France is also good news for the French people, as the project will create 1,000 new jobs, including 250 for pilots.   

Our strategy is to offer you a wide range of services, including low-cost and very high premium products, for both your professional and leisure trips. We will therefore be progressively introducing our new long-haul cabins, bringing you the Company’s best products and services.

With the support of all Air France staff, we are pleased to welcome you back on board our flights and will make every effort to regain your trust.
 
Frédéric Gagey
Chairman and CEO of Air France Alexandre de Juniac
Chairman and CEO of Air France-KLM""
 
76er
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:43 pm

In an interview with Le Journal de Dimanche Alexandre de Juniac said AF will press on with their LCC plans. Remarkable: a contingency plan will be in place in case the pilots intend to go on strike again.


http://www.lejdd.fr/Economie/Entrepr...Juniac-veut-tourner-le-page-693530
 
Pihero
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RE: Air France Strike 15-22 September Part 2

Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:39 pm

An interesting piece of news came at 16:00 L today :
Air France and the SNPL have agreed on the Transavia plan, as proposed by Juniac during the strike.
- Pilots with Transavia will be paid on the Transavia salary scheme.
- They will keep their seniority with Air France during their posting.
- Some copilots will receive an *enticement* to fly Transavia planes for the time the overstaffing exists at the mainline.

Comments :
- This is the Juniac's proposal even before the notice of strike, which means that these SNPL clowns have won exactly NOTHING...
- but the cost of the strike - some 500 M € - will be felt throughout this year, the financial result will be impacted, the long term effects of flight cancellations, loss of trust will affect the airline finances for some time.
- Juniac's threatening to go Transavia regardless of pilots' agreement was apparently sufficient to mollify the resolve of the die-hards
- The SNPL got a bloody nose and will see quite a lot of defections to other unions... as for next spring elections to the board... another lost opportunity.
The other airline employees' unions are openly making fun of the SNPL, plus some rather bitter resentment. Pilots want heads !
- The share saw a rise of 6% right after the news was broadcasted.

the news as it came ealy afternoon

and...an
Article from LeMonde in French
Contrail designer

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