Welcome to the 107th edition of the Australian Aviation Threads. Thread 106 can be found here Australian Aviation Thread 106 (by allrite Sep 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Quote: VA should go back to what it knows... and thats a LCC and also where it made money!

They moved out of that space because JQ and TT had shown up with much lower cost bases, staying in the LCC segment would probably have them in an even worse position.

Frrom Bunumuring in the previous thread:

"Mate, that's a really good analysis. I think jetBlue is an airline with an incredible future, especially if it's estranged step sister airline Azul continues to flourish and the two eventually link up. VA should look carefully at the airline, at things like the 'throne' Mint seat, and maybe differentiate themselves away from QF rather than striving to out do them head on. JetBlue is probably what VA could have been on a slightly different path, if mimicking QF had not been the (reported) mantra amongst VA management, when DJ first took steps to go upmarket. JetBlue is considered cool, sophisticated, hi tech, savvy, trendsetting... Sounds like what VA want to be!"

The thing I find interesting about Jetblue is that they're in exactly the space in the East Coast that Virgin America is in on the West Coast. They're targetting similar types of travellers with similar demographics albeit the Mint product will beat Virgin America's business class on simlar routes. If they can earn a decent ROI on Mint, it makes an interesting case study on how mid market carrier can carve out a profitable niche while not annoying their major competitors in overlapping routes.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 2): The thing I find interesting about Jetblue is that they're in exactly the space in the East Coast that Virgin America is in on the West Coast. They're targetting similar types of travellers with similar demographics albeit the Mint product will beat Virgin America's business class on simlar routes. If they can earn a decent ROI on Mint, it makes an interesting case study on how mid market carrier can carve out a profitable niche while not annoying their major competitors in overlapping routes.

The larger US market may allow for more slicing and dicing. Australia is a lot smaller with much fewer key trunk routes. DJ sort of tried going under QF J class with its original Premium Economy product and it flopped. Sure, it wasn't as extensive as Mint but Mint still needs to generate some serious revenues given the extensive real estate it uses.

You are right about the similarities between B6 and VX apart from their coastal focuses. It is this that often leads to speculation that they really would make good merger partners particularly as their service cultures are quite similar so integration wouldn't be as disruptive as we have seen with other US mergers.

So as it was discussed a few threads back, anyone know why 16L was being used for international A330 arrivals this morning?

KE121 and MH143 using 16L, whilst AI302 and UA838/863 using 16R, so it's not closed (source FlightRadar).

Yes, I would predict a merger or at least very close relationship between Virgin America and JetBlue. Their brands are strong in their respective markets, so perhaps a dual branded merge like LAN and TAM or Air France and KLM might work in the medium term.
Certainly, jetBlue is a model I would be studying if I was John Borghetti....

And I can't wait to see the new Etihad livery live in Sydney! It looks superb!

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

The new VA product looks great, good for them.

Quoting SYDSpotter, Reply=191: VA are going all out to try and gain the corporate market and seem happy to plough millions in doing so (A330 upgrades, lounge upgrades, exclusive lounges etc). I am still not convinced on VA's strategy though, I understand that they are trying to build up their corporate base but it's coming at the cost of an ever increasing cost base. VA seem to be trying to straddle the whole spectrum of the market (I'm not factoring TT at the moment). On way on hand, they offer a very premium J product trans-continental, yet they also offer a "Lite" fare with no baggage, and on certain domestic routes, you need to BOB food/beverage. How much of the corporate market must VA capture to make their model work? 30%, 40% or 50%? Because one thing is for sure, those overheads are building up by the day

  

Their cost base is rising at a terrifying rate. Cheaper labour and outsourced maintenance means that they will never reach parity with Qantas, but at this rate they're doing their best to get as close as possible.

Quoting Sydscott, Reply=193: My take on what Virgin is doing is that with these products they're effectively trying to put barded wire on the beaches in terms of keeping QF away from the pax they have taken. The fact they're reducing the number of seats domestically in the business cabin implies that the fares for the total lie flats must be going up to make up the revenue shortfall. If they don't go up they're banking on being able to gain sufficient extra from the increased space concept to make up for it

  

They clearly don't envisage many more J passengers, and they now need to lock up what they do have.

Quoting TimTam, Reply=198: Why do you think QF announced their seats 12 months ago. Not because they wanted to give VA a heads up. They wanted VA to match them

Fascinating conspiracy theory, and I'm actually inclined to think it might have merit.

Quoting tullamarine, Reply=206: I guess we will never know if VA always had a J Class upgrade in mind or whether the ridiculously early release of the new QF product prompted them into it

I think we can know, because those seats are barely 2 years old.

When VA installed their current J seats CX were already installing the reverse-herringbone and US had been using it for several years already. This is not a "new" product, and they would have installed it initially if they thought that they needed a better product. The fact they didn't clearly shows they felt that the SQ seat was going to be (and remain) a market leading product.

If you are to argue that VA had intended to adopt a new product prior to the QF announcement then that means that VA's management are even more incompetent that I thought. They may as well going and flush some banknotes down the toilet, in fact that would probably been less costly.

Quoting Sydscott, Reply=207: What's going to be interesting to see is whether or not QF opts to take the Skybed Mark 2 out of the A380's and 744's so there is a consistent hard product across the entire widebody fleet

I doubt it. Not only would it be very costly to do, but SkyBed II is arguably a superior product in every regard other than aisle access. It is a larger seat with a wider and longer bed, and one that doesn't end up with your legs under the seat in front.

Quoting bunumuring, Reply=210: I think jetBlue is an airline with an incredible future

Maybe. I'd say they have a very uncertain future.

They are an airline that has perennially under-performed, that is lagging almost all of its peers financially, and that is now under immense pressure to introduce ancillary revenue streams ... i.e. undo everything that makes JetBlue JetBlue.

Quoting bunumuring, Reply=210: JetBlue is probably what VA could have been on a slightly different path

  

I have thought since Brett's time that Virgin Blue should have aimed for the SME market. While (as Tullamarine alluded to) they did sort-of-maybe try this towards the end of Brett's reign, their Premium Economy product was a joke and priced far too high for what it was. Had they adopted a better strategy with a decent mid-market product (a la B6), and gone all in rather than that half-assed effort, it could have worked for them, positioning Virgin [Blue] as Qantas Lite rather than "Jetstar but slightly friendlier"

As it is, I don't think the "corporate" market is big enough for two carriers. Even the UK, with three times as many people and the largest financial centre in the world, only has one (basically). Why Virgin thought that there was room for two in a minuscule market with an even tinier corporate market simply baffles me.

Quoting eaglefarm4, Reply=143: Try the motels and or hotels at Hamilton suburb or the Novotel Brisbane Airport.You will still need wheels but

Bunumurring, I would probably recommend that you look at some of the off-site motels as opposed to the Novotel. Not only are they cheaper, but I imagine it will also be easier to get around. I assume Lomandra Drive will be closed, which means getting from the passenger side of BNE to the other side will be a nightmare. It will probably take longer to drive from the Novotel than from one of the off-site properties.

I can recommend the Quality Inn Airport Heritage. The room was clean and perfectly adequate, and the restaurant was surprisingly good.

Quoting eaglefarm4, Reply=143: In regards to viewing we are still not sure but BAC are trying to find the spotters somewhere but should know soon.

It will be very interesting to see what they come up with.

Quoting eaglefarm4, Reply=143: The Mineralogy MD-82's are still here

Who/what are Mineralogy, and what do those MDs do? Do they ever fly? I've only ever seen them parked up next to RWY32, but they're not there on Google Maps so are they a relatively recent addition?

Quoting EK413, Reply=149: another piece of QF flying art is part of the history books with VH-VXB returning today from SIN sporting the revised QF scheme

Very sad day, but I think we all knew it was coming. She was starting to looking very faded. I'm very happy that I had the opportunity to fly on her last year, as I flew Wunala literally a couple of weeks after she was repainted.

Nowhere near as exciting, but I'm glad I had the opportunity to tick off the Tassie Devil yesterday!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): Who/what are Mineralogy, and what do those MDs do?

That is Clive Palmer's firm and his planes no?

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): Fascinating conspiracy theory, and I'm actually inclined to think it might have merit.

You lknow the saying, if it is a choice between a stuff-up and a conspiracy, take the stuff-up every time. With the current QF mgmt team, I'd always go with the stuff-up.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): When VA installed their current J seats CX were already installing the reverse-herringbone and US had been using it for several years already. This is not a "new" product, and they would have installed it initially if they thought that they needed a better product. The fact they didn't clearly shows they felt that the SQ seat was going to be (and remain) a market leading product.

I think they probably did bring forward the A332 upgrade but they were already working on a new J class for the 777s and, when QF announced their planned upgrade, they moved to the A330s as well. With the high likelihood that the A330s will do some int'l flying sooner rather than later, product consistency was probably important to them.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): As it is, I don't think the "corporate" market is big enough for two carriers. Even the UK, with three times as many people and the largest financial centre in the world, only has one (basically). Why Virgin thought that there was room for two in a minuscule market with an even tinier corporate market simply baffles me.

I disagree. The Australian market is a classic duopoly. Obviously, QF would have preferred a maintenance of their monopoly position but that was always going to be unlikely.

The comparison with the UK is not a like-for-like situation. A 2 hour flight from LHR will get you half way across Europe so the corporate market is made up of a lot more than just BA with significant services operated by AF/KL/LH etc. BA does dominate intra-UK flying but that market is different from Australia in that the comparatively short distances means rail is much more of a competitor there than here.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8): The comparison with the UK is not a like-for-like situation. A 2 hour flight from LHR will get you half way across Europe so the corporate market is made up of a lot more than just BA with significant services operated by AF/KL/LH etc. BA does dominate intra-UK flying but that market is different from Australia in that the comparatively short distances means rail is much more of a competitor there than here.

Hi mate,
I agree with you.
The two markets may have similarities but cannot be directly compared.
I have a cousin who lives in London and is earning over a £million a year (drool - you should see his penthouse suite and country house) and he hardly ever travels by air for work. He and his team will always take the train to Edinburgh (where his satellite office is) and Paris (once a week, for the day) so that the team can work and socialize in a way that they can't on a plane. If his business was in Australia, he would have to fly because we simply do not have the fast trains and convenient schedules that the critical mass of train passengers in Europe allow. Trains are a much more viable choice for business travelers in Europe. The stations are more centrally located in the CBDs where the businesses are based, saving time, and the destination stations are likewise more conveniently located than the airports.
Having said that, the number of three or four day long weekends he takes to ski resorts etc from London City is amazing!
Plus, the GFC hit Europe much worse than Australia, and we have/had the mining/resource boom to entice QF and VA to chase those dollars with haste. Make hay while the sun shines, or in our case, the iron ore and coal and gold are extracted...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): Quoting bunumuring, Reply=210: I think jetBlue is an airline with an incredible future Maybe. I'd say they have a very uncertain future.

  

As in the preivous thread, JetBlue - most analysts believe - is about to change.

CEO Barger has gone and the new CEO Hayes - it is believed - will reduce seat pitch and introduce first bag fees. There has been enormous pressure from Wall Street analysts to do this, leading this interesting headline:

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ing-too-nice-to-its-passenger.aspx

"Is JetBlue Airways Being Too Nice to Its Passengers?"

Wall Street believes that the answer to that question is a resounding "yes." However much JetBlue is admired as an airline, and it is very much admired, it simply isn't making a decent return on investment.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): Their cost base is rising at a terrifying rate.

Virgin Australia isn't presently making any return on investment, of course, with costs as a major issue. This series of charts usefully illustrates the problem, at least thru' 2013:

http://crudeoilpeak.info/despite-pas...stralia-cant-make-money-since-2009

"Despite growth in passenger numbers Virgin Australia can’t make money since 2009"

Everything is shown as relative to ASK - available seat kilometres - with the RASK (revenue per seat kilometre) seriously under-performing the ASK.

But the rise of Labour and Staff costs over the ASK's may be even more dramatic.

mariner

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): Nowhere near as exciting, but I'm glad I had the opportunity to tick off the Tassie Devil yesterday!

What route?

I love to see those 717s (mini Mad-Dogs) occasionally flying above SYD...

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 7): no?

Yes! Sure is. They haven't flown in a couple of years is my understanding, though happy to stand corrected. They've been down near the old ITB the last few times I've been through BNE but assume they have been / will be moved soon for G20.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6): Tassie Devil

I love this thing!

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 11): What route?

BNE-CBR

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 11): I love to see those 717s (mini Mad-Dogs) occasionally flying above SYD

I know that you like to try out new aircraft, so if you haven't been on a 717 yet then make it a priority! They are simply wonderful aircraft. I'm not a huge fan of the MD-80 as a passenger, but the 717 is in a whole different ballpark. 10 months ago I had never been on one before, but it is (probably) going to be my most-flown type this year courtesy of QF making basically everything ex-CBR 717.

Quoting mariner (Reply 10): "Is JetBlue Airways Being Too Nice to Its Passengers?" Wall Street believes that the answer to that question is a resounding "yes." However much JetBlue is admired as an airline, and it is very much admired, it simply isn't making a decent return on investment.

It is sad that a carrier that tried so hard to buck the trend of the US legacies has found itself in this position, but as a publicly traded corporation it is understandable that this wolf is at the gates. WN can get away with it because they have been profitable every year for over 40 years, and are achieving 15% ROIC. WN has a lot of issues it has to deal with, but the fundamental business is sound and Wall St is relatively happy. The same unfortunately does not apply for B6. As much as they are adored by the travelling public, they do appear to flail around financially. While nothing is entirely clear, the core BOS and NYC flying (excluding Florida) is break-even at best and is quite possibly loss making. LGB is almost certainly a black hole, and the only bright spot is Florida/Caribbean/LatAm. I understand the desire of the original investors to recover their investment, but VX is going to face the same problems after their IPO. VX in 5-10 years time will probably look very different from today. B6 possibly more so.

Quoting mariner (Reply 10): "Despite growth in passenger numbers Virgin Australia can’t make money since 2009"

That makes for fascinating reading, thanks for sharing  

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8): The comparison with the UK is not a like-for-like situation.

I was mostly referring to long haul, due to the differences in the short haul markets that you point out. That London - even excluding the rest of the UK - does not support a second full-scale premium longhaul carrier is quite telling IMHO.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8): The Australian market is a classic duopoly

This could be a very interesting discussion. What do you feel makes it a classic duopoly? I appreciate that it almost always has been, but for most of that time the market was regulated. I agree that a duopoly is almost inevitable, but I am not sure that it makes the most sense financially. A three/four tier structure running QF-VA-JQ(-TT) with a highly segmented market strikes me as making more sense than QF/VA competing in exactly the same market spaces, fighting over the same limited pool of passengers.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8): they were already working on a new J class for the 777s and, when QF announced their planned upgrade, they moved to the A330s as well.

Good point, I forgot about that. I still believe, though, that they should have gone all-in when the aircraft were first delivered, and then retrofitted the 777s a couple of years ago, as they have almost certainly lost a ton of money on those seats.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8): if it is a choice between a stuff-up and a conspiracy, take the stuff-up every time

Fair enough   I'm am no conspiracy theorist by an stretch, so admit that you are probably right!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13): They are simply wonderful aircraft. I'm not a huge fan of the MD-80 as a passenger, but the 717 is in a whole different ballpark.

I second that. Love them! Especially when painted in the fantastic Impulse cockatoo colourscheme...

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 12): Yes! Sure is. They haven't flown in a couple of years is my understanding, though happy to stand corrected. They've been down near the old ITB the last few times I've been through BNE but assume they have been / will be moved soon for G20.

I saw them parked along the taxiways of 14/32 back in June. Doesn't he fly a Global Express nowadays? Wonder why he doesn't use the MD80's (or then sell them)?

The 2 MD-82's have not flown for approx 2-3 years.They have been parked on Taxyway Papa for a few years and then about 9 months ago were moved to the area near RWY 14/32.

One requires a engine change and the other is reasonably ok to fly.A month or 2 ago they were being inspected and some repairs carried out to fly one to Seletar, but this has not occurred so far.I don't believe they need to be moved for the G20 as there is enough space to park the 29 aircraft elsewhere around the airport.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13): I know that you like to try out new aircraft, so if you haven't been on a 717 yet then make it a priority! They are simply wonderful aircraft. I'm not a huge fan of the MD-80 as a passenger, but the 717 is in a whole different ballpark. 10 months ago I had never been on one before, but it is (probably) going to be my most-flown type this year courtesy of QF making basically everything ex-CBR 717.

I flew in them when flown by QFLink prior to JQ, and one all white livery the day prior to JQ's existence, then with JQ livery and now back in QF livery. My first flight in one of these sold me (and flying TN DC9's), these 717's are very special, my preferred ac in Australian skies on short haul domestic. There is something real special with rear mounted engines on ac (bring back the VC10!!!)

Story in the SMH re the Alice Springs aircraft storage facility.

Source.

polehillsid,

For the record 16L/34R will now be used in accordance with this NOTAM:
RWY 16L/34R AND RWY 16R/34L AMD PROCEDURES
ACFT UP TO AND INCLUDING A330/B787 SIZE MAY BE PROCESSED TO LAND ON
EITHER OF THE PARALLEL RUNWAYS 16L/34R OR 16R/34L
AMD ENROUTE SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA FLIGHT PROCEDURES 6.3.2
DELETE (IN TOTAL) ENROUTE SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA FLIGHT PROCEDURES
6.3.3

INTL DEP ACFT INCLUDING A330/B787 AND BLW MAY REQUEST OR BE
OFFERED DEP FROM RWY 16L/34R AT CLEARANCE DELIVERY STAGE.
AMD ENROUTE SUPPLEMENT AUSTRALIA FLIGHT PROCEDURES 6.4.1 NOTE 2
FROM 07 312000 TO PERM

Quoting flyjetstar (Reply 18):

Thanks for sharing the article, I'm curious as to why 4 TT A320's or are these SIN registered bird's?

Is Westjet still considering incurring B767's?



EK413

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20): I'm curious as to why 4 TT A320's or are these SIN registered bird's?

According to the article these are SIN based aircraft that are parked there waiting to go back into service

Quoting TN486 (Reply 17): (bring back the VC10!!!)

Hi mate,
That's been my mantra for years! The VC-10 is simply my favourite aircraft of all time. So sleek, so beautiful, so swift ... And reportedly so popular with passengers.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

If QF were to operate the 789 what is the seat configuration likely to be ? Is it possible that there may be more than one layout?

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 22):

And Noisy.

I did my first overseas flight on BA Super VC10 on 30 April 1975 to LHR from BNE via MEL,SIN,DOH.

Loved them.Also did many of the good ones including Caravelle,2 types of DC8's,707,BAC1-11,DC10 to name just a few of many.

Quoting eaglefarm4 (Reply 24): I did my first overseas flight on BA Super VC10 on 30 April 1975 to LHR from BNE via MEL,SIN,DOH.

I loved the ad - "Try a little VC-10derness."

http://www.everystockphoto.com/photo...cfffcf6f7222983d7c48a4491f&npos=39

And here's a trip down memory lane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npn7QMxwZNY

mariner

Sadly, I'm way too young to have flown in a VC-10 or even seen it in operation in Australia...
Although my first flight was as a 6month old on an Ansett-ANA Viscount, apparently... Sydney to Melbourne... And mum still tells people that for the duration of that flight, I was the most excited, most observant I ever was as a baby, lol! Flew back on an Electra, apparently...
Cheers, and all hail the VC-10! The true supermodel of the sky!
Bunumuring.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13): Quoting 777Jet (Reply 11): I love to see those 717s (mini Mad-Dogs) occasionally flying above SYD I know that you like to try out new aircraft, so if you haven't been on a 717 yet then make it a priority! They are simply wonderful aircraft. I'm not a huge fan of the MD-80 as a passenger, but the 717 is in a whole different ballpark. 10 months ago I had never been on one before, but it is (probably) going to be my most-flown type this year courtesy of QF making basically everything ex-CBR 717.

I am 99.99% sure I've flown on a 717 - but not 100% sure. Sadly, nobody can confirm it for me.

I was on a JQ flight in August 2004 from SYD-OOL. It was when JQ was new and I believe at the time they had mostly 717s in their fleet but, at that time, there was just one or two A320s... I'm not sure. If they only had 717s at that time I could rule it as only being a 717. I'm am so sure it was a 717 with the 2-3 or 3-2 config and the rear engines and T-tail, they even had some rows blocked off to keep the weight balanced, but I was tired after the long flight from LAX and could have been day dreaming......

Nonetheless, if I get the chance I'll fly on one again.

Does anybody know what the JQ A320s were doing in August 2004 or when they started service? I'd really like some kind of confirmation that I was on a 717. Too bad I wasn't interested in keeping a log back then...

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 27): I am 99.99% sure I've flown on a 717 - but not 100% sure. Sadly, nobody can confirm it for me.

Maaaate! Simple. Was it five abreast or six abreast in the cabin? I understand how you must've felt after the long haul across the Pacific.
I really wish I had flown on a Jetstar branded 717 - I've flown on Impulse ones, and loved them, but not JQ nor QFLink yet... My next trip out of Canberra however, will be booked specifically to log one of the latter...
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 28): Maaaate! Simple. Was it five abreast or six abreast in the cabin?

That's the problem... LOL

I'm only 99% sure it was 5 across.
I'm only 99% sure it had the T-tail and rear engines.
I'm only 99% sure it was a 717.
I'm even 99% sure I saw the 717 safety card...

The T-tail stands out to me as I have never liked them since the Alaska Air Mad Dog incident in which the poor maintenance lead to the jack-screw failing... So, I'm sure I stood there looking at the T-tail for a while in fear...

Still only 99% sure...  

Quoting EK413 (Reply 20): Thanks for sharing the article, I'm curious as to why 4 TT A320's or are these SIN registered bird's?

Some are A319's as well, all SIN based. Some will be returning but I believe the A319's won't be going back to TR service.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):

Thanks, I must've missed the details...

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 27): I am 99.99% sure I've flown on a 717 - but not 100% sure. Sadly, nobody can confirm it for me.

Definitely a B717... That's 101%... At no point during JQ's launch did they operate anything other then B717's pending delivery of A320's...

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 30): Some are A319's as well, all SIN based. Some will be returning but I believe the A319's won't be going back to TR service.

Is TR not feeling the pinch from their competitors?

EK413

Quoting EK413 (Reply 31): Is TR not feeling the pinch from their competitors?

No, they have realized the benefits of standardizing on the larger A320 with it's lower operating costs etc. The publicly stated that the A319s were to be wthdrawn for that reason.
At one stage, I believe Tiger Australia was to get a small fleet of A319s, to be based in Adelaide if I remember correctly. Those plans were dropped too...

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 29): The T-tail stands out to me as I have never liked them since the Alaska Air Mad Dog incident in which the poor maintenance lead to the jack-screw failing... So, I'm sure I stood there looking at the T-tail for a while in fear...

Oh mate! I was so looking forward to flying down to Canberra with you on a QFLink 717 to have an a.netters' excursion, so we could both log the airline/airplane combo! Lol! Guess it means you don't want to fly on an Mineralogy MD-82 either with me if I can convince Uncle Clive to let them loose!

Cheers,
Bunumruing.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 31): Definitely a B717... That's 101%... At no point during JQ's launch did they operate anything other then B717's pending delivery of A320's...

When I checked planespotters or one of those sites it said that JQ had 1 or 2 A320s in the fleet in Aug 2004. Do you know when the A320s actually started carrying pax for JQ?

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 33): When I checked planespotters or one of those sites it said that JQ had 1 or 2 A320s in the fleet in Aug 2004. Do you know when the A320s actually started carrying pax for JQ?

The first 3 ac that I am aware of were:
VH JQG First revenue pax flight Jul 21 2004 SYD HMI
VH JQL First revenue pax flight Jul 21 2004 SYD AVV
VH JQX First revenue pax flight Aug 15 2004 MEL HMI

JQ launched in May 2004 with 717's exclusively

If you are still in any doubt as to your status as a 717 pax, you now have plenty of opportunity to upgrade your status. Good luck, it will be a delight for you, cheers

Quoting TN486 (Reply 34): The first 3 ac that I am aware of were: VH JQG First revenue pax flight Jul 21 2004 SYD HMI VH JQL First revenue pax flight Jul 21 2004 SYD AVV VH JQX First revenue pax flight Aug 15 2004 MEL HMI

The three daily lines of flying for Aug - Oct 2004 (broken down into the crew pairings) were as follows:

Aircraft 1

301 SYD 0600 AVV 0725
304 AVV 0755 SYD 0915
516 SYD 0945 OOL 1105
521 OOL 1135 SYD 1300

626 SYD 1350 MCY 1520
625 MCY 1550 SYD 1725
548 SYD 1755 OOL 1915
555 OOL 1945 SYD 2110

Aircraft 2

702 SYD 0640 HTI 0905
705 HTI 0935 SYD 1155

708 SYD 1255 HTI 1520
711 HTI 1550 SYD 1810

323 SYD 1910 AVV 2035
328 AVV 2105 SYD 2225

Aircraft 3

742 MEL 0710 HTI 1005
743 HTI 1035 MEL 1325

594 MEL 1425 OOL1625
543 OOL 1655 SYD 1820
552 SYD 1850 OOL 2010
613 OOL 2040 MEL 2250

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 27): I am 99.99% sure I've flown on a 717 - but not 100% sure. Sadly, nobody can confirm it for me.

Do you know the flight number? Given only three of the SYD-OOL flights were A320s, there is a high chance you were on a 717. The 717s had blue or grey fabric seat covers, the 320s were grey leather. That may help jog your memory.

Does anybody know what has happened to the Belfast Shorts of Heavey Lift, is it still up in Carins Airport ? I saw it up there in 2010 aswell as a 727F of heavy Lift that was broken up while I was on a honeymoon up there. Every couple of days they were moving the Belfast around the tarmac so I was woundering what has happened to that aircraft?

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 29):

I think you just need to get yourself to CBR or HBA and get a 717 just to be sure!!

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 32):

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 37):

I'm up for it... A day trip is always fun head over to CBR for lunch & back to SYD just in time for Dinner...

EK413

Quoting EK413 (Reply 38): Quoting bunumuring (Reply 32): Quoting QF2220 (Reply 37): I'm up for it... A day trip is always fun head over to CBR for lunch & back to SYD just in time for Dinner... EK413

Well,we should plan it then! I'm up for it too!

And ummm, while on the way to the footy today at the Olympic Stadium, I could've sworn a 757 flew over us. Does anyone know if it was? Or maybe one of Jetstar's A321s? Just curious.

Cheers,
Bunumuring

Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 35): Do you know the flight number? Given only three of the SYD-OOL flights were A320s, there is a high chance you were on a 717. The 717s had blue or grey fabric seat covers, the 320s were grey leather. That may help jog your memory.

I was on Jetstar flight # 520

31 August, 2004

SYD 1055 - 1215 OOL

I still have the boarding pass  

[Edited 2014-09-27 17:26:59]

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 40): I was on Jetstar flight # 520 31 August, 2004 SYD 1055 - 1215 OOL I still have the boarding pass

Problem solved, welcome to the 717 club.

Quoting TN486 (Reply 41): Problem solved, welcome to the 717 club.

... Love it! Now to get you on a QFLink 717... And then an Alliance Fokker 70...

Heard a rumor that the first Air China 747-8i will make an appearance in Brisbane for G20. Anyone else heard it or know if it is true? I'm dubious...

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21): I'm curious as to why 4 TT A320's or are these SIN registered bird's?

Another arrived via DRW last week for storage... looks odd with out the logo decal..

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 42): Quoting TN486 (Reply 41):Problem solved, welcome to the 717 club. ... Love it! Now to get you on a QFLink 717... And then an Alliance Fokker 70...

If the F70 is as comfy/quiet as the F100 then it will be an awesome flight. I thought the F100 was levels ahead of the B717 in terms of quietness and comfortable levels. I really want to try the F50 from ADL - Olympic Dam.

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 39):

An A.netter catchup wouldn't be a bad idea...

Other news...

The Roo is departing Sydney in style sporting a cowboy hat  

VH-OQL in Hangar 96 ready for the inaugural QF7 SYD-DFW A380 service  http://instagram.com/p/teqznvoHAa/

EK413

Photos floating around on Twitter of the Brisbane West Airport Open Day today. From the photos, appears to be a QF Dash8 Q400, an Alliance F50 and F70, SkyTrans Dash 8, a REX SF34, a PelAir SF34 Freighter and then quite bizarrely, a Nauru Airlines 737-300 and a Nauru Airlines Freight 737-300F.

Now given Nauru Airlines is 100% government owned (IIRC), and is very unprofitable, why on earth would they be sending 2 737s to Toowoomba? They will never serve Toowoomba, and its not like they need to advertise themselves as I can't imagine many/any people visiting Nauru for a holiday and Nauru Airlines has monopoly on flights to INU. The only reason I can think of is they were chartered and used to test/show that the runway and airport are capable of handling 737's. But even then I don't think thats very likely. Anybody care to shed some light?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 44): I really want to try the F50 from ADL - Olympic Dam.

  

Quoting 777ER (Reply 44): I thought the F100 was levels ahead of the B717 in terms of quietness and comfortable levels.

Really? I'm struggling to imagine how you could improve the 717, but you have piqued my interest. I guess I'll have to try and fly one at some point.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 46): Photos floating around on Twitter of the Brisbane West Airport Open Day today. From the photos, appears to be a QF Dash8 Q400, an Alliance F50 and F70, SkyTrans Dash 8, a REX SF34, a PelAir SF34 Freighter and then quite bizarrely, a Nauru Airlines 737-300 and a Nauru Airlines Freight 737-300F.

Argh! And I was so close to a spontaneous trip to Brisbane for the weekend to catch the last QF8!!! wish I'd known about this open day! Really want to get up close and personal with a Fokker 70... And the Nauru twins!
TruemanQLD, was it well-publicized? I didn't see anything anywhere about it...

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 46): The only reason I can think of is they were chartered and used to test/show that the runway and airport are capable of handling 737's

Publicity? If the planes were already at Brisbane, a short hop over to Wellcamp might've been deemed acceptable to management. The airshow organizers would've sent out invites to all RPT companies. I'm very surprised that Virgin didn't respond. They are normally more media-savvy...

Back to the Nauru twins, is it possible that Nauru Cargo is the freight airline the airport owners have mentioned as operating freight flights from the airport? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the owners had something lined up?
Also, sometimes companies send planes for publicity for no apparent reason. I remember the AvalonAirShow last century that featured the Tupolev Tu-204 and IL-76 etc and thinking, 'why why why would a company send jets to an air show half way around the world where there is ZERO chance of selling them in the regional market around that country...' still, as a photographer/spotter, I wasn't complaining!

Quoting EK413 (Reply 45): An A.netter catchup wouldn't be a bad idea...

I'm happy to organise one. PM me ideas and then I can post it in the 'travel, polls etc' forum where it should be.I know of three other a.netters who have discussed it with me and would be interested. Plus a couple of spotting mates who have nothing to do with a.net. I can get wide field data projectors etc to display digital images we can share... everyone can bring popcorn and 'light refreshments', lol! It would be like an old school slide night!

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 46): Now given Nauru Airlines is 100% government owned (IIRC), and is very unprofitable, why on earth would they be sending 2 737s to Toowoomba? They will never serve Toowoomba, and its not like they need to advertise themselves as I can't imagine many/any people visiting Nauru for a holiday and Nauru Airlines has monopoly on flights to INU. The only reason I can think of is they were chartered and used to test/show that the runway and airport are capable of handling 737's. But even then I don't think thats very likely. Anybody care to shed some light?

This may explain it for you:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...worlds-smallest-home-market-186147

Surprisingly enough it's actually a profitable airline and flies alot of charters thanks to our refugee processing centre.

In other news, Borghetta is backpeddling furiously in relation to Tigerair.......

http://www.smh.com.au/business/virgi...n-of-tigerair-20140928-10n6v0.html