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United Airline
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Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:14 am

SQ is far behind CX in North America and I think CX is now slightly bigger than SQ.

SQ used to fly to LAS, ORD, EWR, YYZ, YVR but they are all gone. Will they ever return? Will they expand further into North America? LAX and SFO etc can get additional flights.

Also will SIN-HKG-SFO go A380?
 
atal17
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:17 am

Super doubtful of SQ ever returning to LAS/YVR/YYZ. I can see ORD, but only like every other American service they offer, via some point in EU/Asia
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:25 am

Current discussion covers this topic well. See

UA And SQ (by CHI787ORD Sep 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

=
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United Airline
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:25 am

So SQ has no presence in Canada? CX is doing so well in Canada while SQ doesn't even fly there. Geeeeeeeeeeez
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:50 am

They would be flying to more places, but the thing is, SIN is just too far away.the only real viable stopping points are ICN NRT PEK PVG HKG and CAN. And almost all of those routes have established competition. They could try from places in Europe, but those have more competition. The only ones that are working are FEA-JFK and DME-IAH. Unless SQ wants to get bold and make a scissors hub in Africa. Or make the death blow to QF and fly TPAC from SYD...
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klinit
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
SQ is far behind CX in North America and I think CX is now slightly bigger than SQ.

I suspect one problem with this comparison is that North America flights require a stopover somewhere for SQ and that HKG is much better located for picking up connecting traffic.
 
continental004
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:14 am

Quoting klinit (Reply 5):
Quoting klinit (Reply 5):

Also, HKG is an ideal hub for all of Southeast Asia, while SIN is too far south to be a viable hub for anything but Malaysia, Indonesia, and (from East Coast only) PER. Not much O&D traffic to these places from the USA.
 
United Airline
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:30 am

Should SQ fly to more North American destinations via HKG then?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:46 am

I think upgrading SFO to A380 is about as much as we can expect. Any US destination, you're talking about flying halfway round the world, it's not a trivial matter to launch a new destination that far from base. Plus negotiating traffic rights for the fifth freedom sector (e.g. AMS-ORD or KIX-SEA). Look for the whale at SFO in the future, but that's about it.
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MillwallSean
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:23 am

Quoting continental004 (Reply 6):
Also, HKG is an ideal hub for all of Southeast Asia, while SIN is too far south to be a viable hub for anything but Malaysia, Indonesia, and (from East Coast only) PER. Not much O&D traffic to these places from the USA.

Id say that most transit traffic on SQ from North America would be geared towards India/Sri lanka.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
So SQ has no presence in Canada? CX is doing so well in Canada while SQ doesn't even fly there. Geeeeeeeeeeez

Apart from pretty different geographic locations there is another big point. Singapore hasnt seen the same outward migration as HongKong has. There are alot of HongKongnese in Canada and if you expand the geographic areas and speak about cantonese speakers then there are millions.
For Singapore this isnt the case, not many Singaporeans have migrated and among those that do, Australia seems more common than Canada.
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United Airline
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:14 am

Is CX Group bigger than SQ Group now?
 
infinit
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:37 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):

So SQ has no presence in Canada? CX is doing so well in Canada while SQ doesn't even fly there. Geeeeeeeeeeez

SQ will I suspect never be able to be as competitive as CX in the North American market, simply because of geography. Hong Kong is in Northeast Asia while Singapore is a Southeast Asian country nearly 4 hours flight time South.

With a one stop, I too think its possible for SQ to add another US destination. But rather than via Northeast Asia (NRT/HKG/PEK/ICN), I think SQ has a better shot going via India.

India has a shortage of reliable airlines and SQ with Silkair (and the upcoming Vistara) covers the country well.. They're well poised to fill the under-served India-US market.

As for Canada there is a lot of bad blood between SQ and the Canadian government so I doubt SQ will return. Unlike Hongkong, as Millwall Sean pointed out, Singapore has little cultural ties with Canada either. Most Singaporeans prefer to retire in Australia/New Zealand which SQ already covers well!

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Should SQ fly to more North American destinations via HKG then?

Why will the Hongkong government want to create more competition for HongKong based airlines when the HongKong based airlines already serve that market well?
 
United Airline
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:49 am

I think Hong Kong is having an open skies policy.

Any other potential SQ destinations?

Guess SQ is bigger than CX in Australia/Europe?
 
klinit
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:40 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Should SQ fly to more North American destinations via HKG then?

Unless there is significant HKG based traffic, they'd face the problem of a lack of feed. On say HKG-YYZ CX could carry passengers from Southeast Asia, Southern China, Taiwan, India etc... SQ would be carrying almost exclusively passengers from SIN and HKG
 
strfyr51
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:47 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 9):
Apart from pretty different geographic locations there is another big point. Singapore hasnt seen the same outward migration as HongKong has. There are alot of HongKongnese in Canada and if you expand the geographic areas and speak about cantonese speakers then there are millions.
For Singapore this isnt the case, not many Singaporeans have migrated and among those that do, Australia seems more common than Canada

*************************************************************************************************************************************************
Many in Hong Kong hold British passports and Canada being a close ally of Great Brittan offers open borders to those people.
Some actually continue to migrate to the United States from there.. Where as SIN is not an open border for Hong Kong.
 
United Airline
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:52 am

There are lots of Singaporeans in USA and Canada too right?

Maybe not as many as Hong Kong people especially in places like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Toronto, Boston, New York, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Seattle etc
 
sq452
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:09 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 11):
With a one stop, I too think its possible for SQ to add another US destination. But rather than via Northeast Asia (NRT/HKG/PEK/ICN), I think SQ has a better shot going via India.

Does SQ have 5th freedom rights via India? I don't believe they do unless something has changed, and just knowing how protective the Indian government is of their airlines and turf I don't see them allowing any airlines outside of India and those in the destination countries using them for a transit point. I'll be shocked if this were to ever happen.

I've personally felt that SQ management has been asleep at the wheel over the last few years and it's starting to creep up on them:
-Not having a super effective strategy to tackle the ME3
-Awful revamp of their website that was a disaster about 3 years ago or so
-New routes: their on again off again relationship with ATH is always in flux and their seasonal winter service to CTS is by my recollection their only new route/station launched since GRU which was a couple of years ago already. They've added frequencies to existing stations but only so much organic growth can contribute to the top line.

The airline is still able to stand on their brand and hard product -just barely though- but there's only so many times they can play that card as the competition catches up; the ME3 proved that. SQ's real strength is connecting Australia, New Zealand and Indonesia with Europe and I think that is where they will continue to focus for the time being; smart money is on that move and the tie up with NZ was a wise decision.

But back to North America, there were plenty of places they could have opened up I think. LAS was a fools errand and survived about as long as a broke college student with $50 to his name on a blackjack table on the strip. ORD was bad timing due to 9/11 but they could have gone back in there before the ME3 and CX descended on ORD in force. BOS was another market they were rumored to be looking at ages ago but they missed the opportunity entirely on that and CX is going to prove them wrong on that front. They should be kicking themselves given the amazing growth at BOS with foreign airlines.

IAH must be doing well as that is the one niche route they seemed to have made work that very few people saw or gave a chance of working. You have to give credit to SQ's route planning department for thinking WAY outside the box on that one as they have proved a lot of people on this forum wrong with IAH via DME, myself included.

Ditching the 787's and sending them to Scoot was the right call given how Scoot is not doing so well with those 777's but they should have kept some for themselves in my opinion. If there are any chances for North American routes I think SEA, MIA, ORD, and EWR are probably the best candidates, but again, I think it is a stretch. 787's could be the proper aircraft for a couple of these markets in North America but it will be some time before you see SQ opening up a new station in the US or Canada I think.

Final point: wasn't SQ supposed to do something when they dropped EWR and LAX with the all business class A345's non-stop about a year ago? I vaguely remember there was talk of a replacement service or added frequencies of sorts but nothing materialized. EWR is a surprise as they served that via AMS before the non-stop. Just surprised they haven't gone back in there yet.

[Edited 2014-09-26 07:14:31]
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
flyenthu
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 11):
India has a shortage of reliable airlines and SQ with Silkair (and the upcoming Vistara) covers the country well.. They're well poised to fill the under-served India-US market.

I can see this as a possibility too, something like SIN-DEL-JFK. There will be strong India-US demand for a long time into the future. ME3 have tapped into this traffic, but SQ could get in on it as well. However, that would require fifth freedom, and I wonder if India would be agreeable to that considering AI and 9W flies to US destinations as well. In fact, are there any fifth freedom flights through India? But that a separate discussion.
 
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):
BOS was another market they were rumored to be looking at ages ago but they missed the opportunity entirely on that and CX is going to prove them wrong on that front. They should be kicking themselves given the amazing growth at BOS with foreign airlines.

I think they hedged their bets on the VS relationship for BOS which is still in play and eventually they will put their code on TK's IST-BOS.

BOS is tough for SQ since you wind up overflying the majority of connecting destinations. Indonesia and Malaysia are small BOS markets as well but may be growing due to EK, JL and in May CX now making travel a bit easier to those areas.

I'd love to see them try a 1-stop over the Atlantic but a lot of fifth freedom European routes that are unserved from BOS are highly seasonal: BCN ATH LIS. CPH may be an ok jumping off point. The other wild card would be to enter SIN-ICN-BOS. Does SQ play nice with OZ? One more if SQ wants to think outside the box: BOS-TLV-SIN. Has TLV-SIN ever been served by any airline?
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Viscount724
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:46 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 3):
So SQ has no presence in Canada? CX is doing so well in Canada while SQ doesn't even fly there. Geeeeeeeeeeez

As already mentioned in this thread and many others in the past, CX does very well in Canada because HKG-Canada is a huge O&D market and HKG is an excellent connecting hub for most of the rest of Asia.

SIN-Canada is a very small O&D market and SIN is very badly located (almost on the Equator) to serve as a connecting hub for North America except for a few equally small (or smaller) markets like Indonesia and Malaysia. When SQ served YVR previously most of their traffic was low-yield 5th freedom passengers on the ICN-YVR sector.

SQ must have many much more lucrative potential new markets than Canada.

[Edited 2014-09-26 18:14:29]
 
aznmadsci
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:54 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):
IAH must be doing well as that is the one niche route they seemed to have made work that very few people saw or gave a chance of working. You have to give credit to SQ's route planning department for thinking WAY outside the box on that one as they have proved a lot of people on this forum wrong with IAH via DME, myself included.

I do wonder if it is seasonal traffic or how much other airlines such as KE and TK have taken from SQ's IAH flight as it seems as they were able to hold their own. In August, my flights were completely open in Y where I had a whole set of seats on IAH-DME, DME-SIN, SIN-DME, and DME-IAH sectors. J only had a handful and not sure in F. I know SQ also puts their code on TK's IST-IAH-IST flights. It's a long way to get to Asia/Oceania with them, but I like their service
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SFOA380
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):
Final point: wasn't SQ supposed to do something when they dropped EWR and LAX with the all business class A345's non-stop about a year ago?

Yes...at least here on a.net everyone kept saying it was only a matter of time before SQ re-establishes LAX-TPE-SIN... I thing SQ is about maxed out with 1 daily LAX and 2 daily SFO...
 
infinit
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:06 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 15):

There are lots of Singaporeans in USA and Canada too right?

Err.. nope. Maybe for business but few move there.

As someone above mentioned, many Hongkong natives moved to Canada incentivised with their British passport.

Singapore is a sovereign country that does not allow dual citizenship. You cant hold a Singapore passport and another one.

Also for immigration, Australia and NZ is a much more popular choice here. On that point, Aus/NZ is already SQ's competitive advantage. They're the biggest international carrier out of that region after Qantas and AirNZ.

Fundamentally, on the comparisons you made tl CX earlier, SQ and CX may have similar hub/5th freedom models but they are very different airlines in different markets and regions.. and probably different culturally as well.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):

Agreed. I think SQ has become too risk averse although they are still a very well run airline. I think there is more they can and should do for the north american market. It is still the largest aviation market by far.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:51 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 22):
Agreed. I think SQ has become too risk averse although they are still a very well run airline. I think there is more they can and should do for the north american market. It is still the largest aviation market by far.

I see your point there, but I think the issue (as mentioned above) they can't really get around is that there really isn't much that doesn't already have some competition. Obviously an airline of SQ's caliber compares favorably against many other world airlines, but also given the expense of ULH trips the numbers may not work.

Whether they can do anything about it or not, SQ is just kind of strategically boxed-in. (Worth noting here that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, a la VS's retrenchment to core TATL and token East Asian service in order to maintain brand focus/identity/quality).

One thing that does come to mind though: presuming the 5th freedom issues would be moot or could be worked out, they might have a play using large European markets without too much TATL service (e.g., HAM, TXL, MAN), or alternatively some form of JV or equity stake with troubled Star brethren like LOT or SK (replacing LO and SK flights with SQ). I realize such an arrangement would be much more complicated in real life, but if SQ were THAT determined to increase US service, I would think something along those lines would be as good a plan as any.

My thought here is that while FRA-JFK gets them to NYC, and FRA-JFK is obviously a large and profitable TATL route itself, it still puts them against LH. This would give them more competitive space on routes with little direct competition, which might help somewhat.

[Edited 2014-09-26 23:05:58]

[Edited 2014-09-26 23:07:10]

[Edited 2014-09-26 23:07:46]
 
David_itl
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:37 am

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 23):
One thing that does come to mind though: presuming the 5th freedom issues would be moot or could be worked out, they might have a play using large European markets without too much TATL service (e.g., HAM, TXL, MAN),

Would have to question MAN being included as a market without too much transatlantic service? Daily to JFK, EWR, ORD, PHL, ATL, IAD, 10 weekly to MCO, 9/10 weekly to YYZ, weekly to YVR and YYC. 2 weekly summer ops to LAS Next year extra JFK & MIA. Where would you propose SQ fly to? The only "glaring" market is West Coast USA which I would expect to feature as a Thomas Cook destination within 12 to 18 months on a 2/3 weekly basis but why would SQ go the "wrong" way to West Coast USA?.
 
airbazar
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:28 pm

My opinion is that there will be some expansion but it will come in the form of resuming non-stop services between SIN and the U.S. But I don't really see more destinations added.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 24):
Would have to question MAN being included as a market without too much transatlantic service? Daily to JFK, EWR, ORD, PHL, ATL, IAD, 10 weekly to MCO, 9/10 weekly to YVR and YYC. 2 weekly summer ops to LAS Next year extra JFK & MIA. Where would you propose SQ fly to? The only "glaring" market is West Coast USA which I would expect to feature as a Thomas Cook destination within 12 to 18 months on a 2/3 weekly basis but why would SQ go the "wrong" way to West Coast USA?.

You're right about MAN, I was thinking of the touristy stuff to MCO and then just New York basically, but yeah that's a decent portfolio.

By themselves I don't see much SQ could do -- again, maybe TXL, maybe HAM, STR, too. But it would rely on fifth freedom rights to get segment O&D TATL plus the through demand for SIN-USA.

That's why it occurred to me that the partnership with say SK or LO (maybe even TP) might be interesting. The best way for them to expand US service on any scale might be to replace existing services like these and then tack on their SIN-Europe-USA seats onto those flights. Seems like the only viable way to get at the range problem.

[Edited 2014-09-27 06:51:12]
 
olympic472
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:22 pm

It is the weekend here. Just brainstorming no research whatsoever. I do not know what 5th rights they have, or too much history on the routes:

Auckland - SFO / LAX. Sydney is a non-starter but they are getting cozy with New Zealand.   
SIN - Honolulu. They cannot sell HNL - mainland tickets but are there enough stopover passengers?   
J'berg - EWR ?   
Malpensa - Miami ?   
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flyenthu
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:32 pm

Can SQ not get fifth freedom rights in India for US destinations? SIN-DEL, SIN-BOM are busy routes, and if SQ does a, say, DEL-ORD/JFK/EWR or even DEL-BOS, or BOM-ORD/JFK/EWR or BOM-BOS, then I see more opportunities. The subcontinent market is probably the way to go, because population of India is expected to increase for the next couple of decades. So, there will always be demand. I don't see an upsurge in O/D load between Singapore and the US in the long term.

[Edited 2014-09-27 11:34:40]
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 28):
Can SQ not get fifth freedom rights in India for US destinations? SIN-DEL, SIN-BOM are busy routes, and if SQ does a, say, DEL-ORD/JFK/EWR or even DEL-BOS, or BOM-ORD/JFK/EWR or BOM-BOS, then I see more opportunities

SIN-BOM-ORD always made a lot of sense to me as a potential SQ route, provided that SQ cooperated with UA for feed.
 
avek00
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting flyenthu (Reply 28):
Can SQ not get fifth freedom rights in India for US destinations?

Like USA, India spent the first decade of the 2000s dispatching diplomats around the world to broker as many Open Skies agreements as possible, to protect its air market from unwanted meddling by SQ and others. Your suggestion would harm Indian carriers that would get nothing in return.
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B-HOP
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):

I've personally felt that SQ management has been asleep at the wheel over the last few years and it's starting to creep up on them:
-Not having a super effective strategy to tackle the ME3
-Awful revamp of their website that was a disaster about 3 years ago or so
-New routes: their on again off again relationship with ATH is always in flux and their seasonal winter service to CTS is by my recollection their only new route/station launched since GRU which was a couple of years ago already. They've added frequencies to existing stations but only so much organic growth can contribute to the top line.

No I think SQ's management didn't fall asleep, they have for last ten years battled with low cost carriers at their home front, taking load and yield out from traditional trunk routes like MNL,BKK,KUL,HKG,CGK etc, the bread and butter of their operation, they did well with not to over expose in Europe and not engage in a price/capacity war with ME3, which frankly you can't win. US requires stopover everywhere, even a SIN-HNL-xxx, there just weren't enough feed and have to relies on O&D from SIN/KUL maybe CGK/DPS. They have fight back by using Scoot to connect to 'deep north' Chinese market and low yield traffic to Australia whilst I believe BKK and HKG are for utilization whilst also builds market share.
In US market, expect 359 to change the game, they still (should have) 7X week from TPE and 3X week from HKG and I think they could have tried ORD from TPE with co-operation with UA with 359's range, HKG, maybe YVR or extra SFO flight.

[Edited 2014-09-27 18:58:33]
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aznmadsci
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting olympic472 (Reply 27):

SIN-MXP-MIA does sound a bit interesting, if they wanted to think out of the box. They had done SIN-MXP-BCN before before giving MXP and BCN their own nonstops. While it could fill Y up in the back to cater MNL VFR traffic, I wonder if they could fill the premium cabins using their 77W.

You also mentioned AKL. Does sound interesting and would be interesting to see SQ put their code on NZ flights to LAX, SFO, and YVR. Which makes me think about the future of IAH flight. I feel SQ could and maybe should consider SIN-OSL-IAH in the event of air restrictions via DME. On an odd chance with unlikely odds, it would be interesting if SQ decides a reroute of SIN-AKL-IAH ahead of UA and NZ. At that point I'd probably step away from the bong.
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olympic472
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:03 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 32):
While it could fill Y up in the back to cater MNL VFR traffic, I wonder if they could fill the premium cabins using their 77W.

I tend to agree that MXP - MIA premium cabin may be a stretch to fill, and yes, Y should not be a problem.
BCN is now SIN-BCN-GRU. I wonder how BCN-GRU is doing.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 32):
I feel SQ could and maybe should consider SIN-OSL-IAH in the event of air restrictions via DME.

They should have a second flight from the west to IAH, and AKL may work.

These are 787 routes, long and thin.
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avek00
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:21 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 15):
There are lots of Singaporeans in USA and Canada too right?

Maybe not as many as Hong Kong people especially in places like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Toronto, Boston, New York, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Seattle etc

SQ's beef (vis-a-vis North America) is not with Cathay Pacific, it's with the post-merger UA and DL.
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PA110
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:28 am

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 16):
I've personally felt that SQ management has been asleep at the wheel over the last few years and it's starting to creep up on them:

It's not that they've been asleep at the wheel. They're just painfully, almost paralytically, conservative. They don't make any moves unless they've studied it six ways to Sunday, and back again. When they finally do act, it is slow and deliberate.

That said, they are only interested in premium traffic. If there isn't a productive market for premium traffic, they're not going to open a route simply to keep up appearances.
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airbazar
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:31 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
That said, they are only interested in premium traffic. If there isn't a productive market for premium traffic, they're not going to open a route simply to keep up appearances.

  
In addition, and giving SIN's geographic location their strategy is also to chase 5th freedom routes with premium markets. But there are very few of those left.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 34):
SQ's beef (vis-a-vis North America) is not with Cathay Pacific, it's with the post-merger UA and DL.

Why DL? I can understand SQ's problem with UA since both belong to the same alliance.
 
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Polot
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 37):
Why DL? I can understand SQ's problem with UA since both belong to the same alliance.

I believe he meant more in terms of network strength and competitiveness- the US legacies generally have their costs under control and are no longer complete clusterf*cks like they were 10 or so years ago due to their stronger management. Yes, SQ has better service, but at the end of the day they are always going to be at a disadvantage on most 5th freedom routes (by the very fact that they are the "outside" airline), which are necessary to expand their trans-pacific network.
 
A388
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:14 pm

Will the A350 give SQ potential to open up new routes to the U.S.?

A388
 
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Miami
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting olympic472 (Reply 27):
Malpensa - Miami ?
Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 32):
SIN-MXP-MIA

I wouldn't mind SQ at MIA at all.   

But on a serious note. Is SQ to MIA really a possibility in the future? (Doesn't have to be from MXP)
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USAirALB
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:02 pm

I feel like had their chance in many US cities, but lost it.

BOS for years lacked an Asian carrier, and SQ could have flown SIN-ICN/NRT/HKG-BOS and probably would have been successful.

They could have resumed ORD with a different stopover, maybe HKG but CX began ORD-HKG first.

Here is what I believe SQ should do:

-Resume service to EWR, but with a stopover in ICN. EWR lacks ICN service at the moment.
-Start service to IAD, with a stopover in HKG.
-Resume LAX-TPE
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sq452
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 41):

I feel like had their chance in many US cities, but lost it.

BOS for years lacked an Asian carrier, and SQ could have flown SIN-ICN/NRT/HKG-BOS and probably would have been successful.

They could have resumed ORD with a different stopover, maybe HKG but CX began ORD-HKG first.

Here is what I believe SQ should do:

-Resume service to EWR, but with a stopover in ICN. EWR lacks ICN service at the moment.
-Start service to IAD, with a stopover in HKG.
-Resume LAX-TPE

Good route pairings and suggestions I think. One of the problems with ORD initially when they launched it was it was via AMS; perception for an Asian carrier from ORD is that it should head westward and I think that hurt SQ. Distance wise it was more than 1200 miles further too via AMS. They could have made HKG work back then as only UA was flying it at the time. CX launched it, added frequencies and continues to do so. Opportunity missed by SQ, no doubt.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 35):
It's not that they've been asleep at the wheel. They're just painfully, almost paralytically, conservative. They don't make any moves unless they've studied it six ways to Sunday, and back again. When they finally do act, it is slow and deliberate.

That's part of their problem: they are way too slow. There's nothing wrong with a well oiled machine that runs at a consistent pace and does their homework down to a science. CX has arguably done the same and look how fast they have reacted to the North American market with EWR, ORD and BOS all announced in the last few years and ORD getting additional frequencies. If SQ management is not asleep at the wheel, then perhaps they are comparable to a clueless driver completely unaware of the traffic situation around them, getting overtaken and passed up and not quite adjusting accordingly. That conservative, deliberate methodical type of management and leadership is a good quality to have, but it has to be balanced. It's been the achilles heal for SQ management as far as I am concerned: way too conservative in a competitive environment and way too slow to react and I think that's going to start biting them as they will start to get passed up. If you remember, 15-20 years ago they were very revolutionary and innovative in being the "first" for many things which they proudly mention on their website. But that innovation has stagnated.

The North American market has lots of ripe, premium opportunities which they have been slow and lethargic to capitalize on. Only IAH seems to have worked and I give them credit for that because they saw something nobody else saw.

Quoting b-hop (Reply 31):
No I think SQ's management didn't fall asleep, they have for last ten years battled with low cost carriers at their home front, taking load and yield out from traditional trunk routes like MNL,BKK,KUL,HKG,CGK etc, the bread and butter of their operation, they did well with not to over expose in Europe and not engage in a price/capacity war with ME3, which frankly you can't win. US requires stopover everywhere, even a SIN-HNL-xxx, there just weren't enough feed and have to relies on O&D from SIN/KUL maybe CGK/DPS. They have fight back by using Scoot to connect to 'deep north' Chinese market and low yield traffic to Australia whilst I believe BKK and HKG are for utilization whilst also builds market share.
In US market, expect 359 to change the game, they still (should have) 7X week from TPE and 3X week from HKG and I think they could have tried ORD from TPE with co-operation with UA with 359's range, HKG, maybe YVR or extra SFO flight.

See what I said above but to your point on the LCC's that have sucked traffic away from them in the back of the plane, that hasn't hurt them too terribly from what I understand. The bread and butter of SQ is the people that fly up front in J and F, not the people in Y.

ME3 - yeah, you'll never win a price or capacity war with them but my original post I mentioned they haven't had a super effective strategy to tackle the ME3; that doesn't equate to they should compete with the ME3 on price. Quite the contrary. Effective management should mean having the right strategy in place to deal with carriers that offer a competitive product at better prices...it's business 101. The tie up with NZ was a smart move and the closer relationship to Virgin Australia is also wise.

I do agree that the A359's will change the game considerably and we could see US non-stops resumed from SIN (most everyone knows the economics of the A345's just didn't work this day in age with oil at its current prices).

Quoting airbazar (Reply 36):
In addition, and giving SIN's geographic location their strategy is also to chase 5th freedom routes with premium markets. But there are very few of those left.

On the surface it may seem that way but there are plenty of opportunities that exist that can be capitalized on: good analysis and quick reflexes and they can have them.

[Edited 2014-09-28 15:44:05]
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:15 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 41):
I feel like had their chance in many US cities, but lost it.

BOS for years lacked an Asian carrier, and SQ could have flown SIN-ICN/NRT/HKG-BOS and probably would have been successful.

They could have resumed ORD with a different stopover, maybe HKG but CX began ORD-HKG first.

Here is what I believe SQ should do:

-Resume service to EWR, but with a stopover in ICN. EWR lacks ICN service at the moment.
-Start service to IAD, with a stopover in HKG.
-Resume LAX-TPE

I think there is a lack of understanding to what stopover costs when plans such as these are drawn up.
Sending planes, crew etc away for such a route keeps them away from base between a week and 14 days. It requires 3 or 4 planes to operate the route.
The cost for these routes are not worth it unless there is some specific premium demand on the route. SQ isnt a low cost heaven either. These days they have pretty high costs and salaries in Singapore isnt low.

My assumption is that SQ can make more money by deploying their limited resources elsewhere?
Unfortunately for North American passengers Id say they are not likely to see more SQ routes at present, to the contrary. I dont see a need for SQ to serve North America through an Asian port at all. i just see increased costs and a market which quite frankly isnt especially important to SQ or its passengers.
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S75752
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:38 am

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 29):
provided that SQ cooperated with UA for feed.

The whole problem is that they don't cooperate with UA.

They could do YVR-SIN nonstop with their 77W if they wanted (I think), but I don't know if they cooperate with AC, or if they keep separate from them too.
 
USAirALB
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:58 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 43):
I dont see a need for SQ to serve North America through an Asian port at all. i just see increased costs and a market which quite frankly isnt especially important to SQ or its passengers.

I disagree.

I understand that SQ has a loyal following and carries a good percentage of the local market on SFO-HKG/ICN, as well as on JFK-FRA.

Stopovers are necessary on US-Southeast Asia flights, and probably will be forever. SQ/TG have both found that out. Singapore is a very high-yielding destination from the US, even UA manages to fly SIN-NRT and SIN-HKG.

I don't see SQ retreating from the US.
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Viscount724
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:02 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 44):
They could do YVR-SIN nonstop with their 77W if they wanted (I think), but I don't know if they cooperate with AC, or if they keep separate from them too.

There simply isn't enough Canada-SIN traffic to make that feasible, and as already mentioned, SIN is not well-located to make a good connecting hub between North America and Asia except for very small markets like Malaysia and Indonesia.

When AC served SIN (YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN) almost all the traffic was 5th freedom beyond LHR which BA complained about to the UK authorities. Very little traffic all the way YYZ-SIN. Same thing when SQ operated SIN-ICN-YVR and previously SIN-VIE-YYZ for a while in the early 1990s.
 
S75752
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:21 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 46):
There simply isn't enough Canada-SIN traffic to make that feasible

Well, I bring up cooperation with AC for the sake of codesharing. If they were to cooperate with AC, then they'd get feed from all around Canada, and many from all over the USA too, plus connections via Singapore.

However, if they don't cooperate with AC (which it seems like they don't) then I agree with you, there isn't enough O&D from YVR to make it work.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 46):
When AC served SIN (YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN)

Was the BOM-SIN actually 5th freedom? I thought 5th was only when a service immediately follows after/before the flight between two other nations (the LHR-BOM immediately after YYZ.) Curious there, cause I've been somewhat confused on that.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:56 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 47):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 46):
When AC served SIN (LHR-BOM-SIN)

Was the BOM-SIN actually 5th freedom? I thought 5th was only when a service immediately follows after/before the flight between two other nations (the LHR-BOM immediately after CP operated for many years YVR-MEX-LIM-SCL-EZE they had 5th freedom rights between MEX and all 3 South American points, and between SCL and EZE, but not between LIM and SCL or EZE.

[Edited 2014-09-28 20:00:56]
 
lutfi
Posts: 888
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RE: Will SQ Expand Further Into North America?

Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:10 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 39):
Will the A350 give SQ potential to open up new routes to the U.S.?

A388

No, doesn't have the range for SIN-USA non stops as far as I know,

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