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kaichinshih
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Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:54 am

http://talkairlines.wordpress.com/20...oeing-747-8i-interior-information/

PY on the 74H will the CA's first attempt to create a PY cabin.

Miami posted earlier about CA launching 74H operations to FRA. Besides FRA, Chinese news media also talked about LAX being the next 74H destination. Congratulations LAX!

[Edited 2014-09-29 22:54:32]

[Edited 2014-09-29 22:54:55]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:29 am

Here's the seat map:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2rcokfc.jpg
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LH422
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting kaichinshih (Thread starter):
Miami posted earlier about CA launching 74H operations to FRA.

Nice for us in FRA but it's a bit unfair for the other cities that have never had 747-8 service...
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:40 am

The jet has been delivered, here's the press release:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2014-09-...lines-First-747-8-Intercontinental
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:40 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

THANKS A LOT FOR SHARING! Interesting how C is in the nose section while F is behind C. It seems to me that the same products on the 77W will be used while PY is simply Y with extra legroom.
 
747400sp
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:14 am

Yes!!!! So long to those to those 77Ws, CA are bring the Queens back to LAX, in a big way.                         To bad CI did not follow their lead.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:18 am

I am not surprised as I thought that LAX would be one of the destinations that make the most sense... Well done CA!

Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 4):
Interesting how C is in the nose section while F is behind C

I was thinking the same thing. Looks like they have gone with the config that utilizes the available space the most efficiently...
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nethkt
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:19 am

Somehow I love the idea of First class suite cabin located between Door 1 and Door 2.
It's too curvy at the nose but well, the 747 nose is one of the coziest thing in air voyage.

Thank you for the information.
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:53 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Just found a legit version of the seat map and translated it:

 
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hilram
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:25 am

Looks like Premium Economy is different from Economy only in pitch. It is still 10-abreast.    Not like the LH-approach with wider Premium Economy.
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 9):

You're right. Only difference is the legroom.
PY has 120% more legroom than Y
 
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hilram
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:17 am

And even so this plane only has room for 369 passengers. Seems like Airbus is right in calling Boeing's bluff of "469 passengers in a 3-class config". So far the highest configured 747-8i is Lufthansa with 405 passengers. The 747-8i is a 400-passenger plane, not a 470 passenger plane.
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777Jet
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:19 am

BTW I'm glad to see that there are the usual three rows of 2 seaters on each side of the plane at the back! That's where my party of two usually tries to sit  
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:37 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 11):
And even so this plane only has room for 369 passengers. Seems like Airbus is right in calling Boeing's bluff of "469 passengers in a 3-class config". So far the highest configured 747-8i is Lufthansa with 405 passengers. The 747-8i is a 400-passenger plane, not a 470 passenger plane.

Umm... Isn't the example shown a 4 class configuration? And in any event, no matter what the number of classes wouldn't the mix of seats be kind of important?
 
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hilram
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:52 am

True, it is 4-class. But my point is that so far the max config by any ariline has been 405. Is it likely that we will ever se a 747 ever come close to Boieng's 469 seat "prediction" ? I was actually expecting that Air China would give us the highest density 747 ever, but I was wrong. Now, the only ones left who might fulfill Boeing's "vision" is TK. I believe they could stretch up to at least 450 seats, with their 3 classes only config. (Business, Economy Plus, Economy). That is - if they choose the 747 over the A380.
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godbless
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:48 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 11):
Seems like Airbus is right in calling Boeing's bluff of "469 passengers in a 3-class config".

What exactly is your point here? It's not that we see all that many A380 flying around with the highest amount of seats possible...


Quoting hilram (Reply 11):
So far the highest configured 747-8i is Lufthansa with 405 passengers.

It's not really surprising that LH has the highest seat-density of all current 74H operators. Actually they currently fly a max of 386 seats around and with the introduction of Eco+ this number will shrink.
 
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:30 pm

Quoting godbless (Reply 15):


Looking for high density?
Wait for Transaero.
That airline is likely to fill its 74H with 500 people 

Wonder what the KE 74H configuration will be like
I can recall how its A380 was marketed to be the A380 with the lowest density.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:46 pm

This so-called "premium" economy is nothing close to a PY ... it's freaking 3-4-3, exactly same as regular econ, just a few inches more legroom

at least the US carriers use creative names like EC or EP when denoting a product that's barely improved from regular Y
 
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:54 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 14):
True, it is 4-class. But my point is that so far the max config by any ariline has been 405.

Right now the sample size is 2 airlines. One has 4 classes. One has a high proportion of premium seats to Y seats (higher than on their A380s). If Korean Air and SQ (with the all C upper deck) were the only operators of the A380 would you call that a 400 seat plane?

[Edited 2014-09-30 06:56:11]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:25 pm

As I posted a few months ago, CA has requested a terminal move at LAX in order to accommodate the 748.

They proposed to do this in January, but have yet reached an agreement with the airport so we will have to see how this plays out.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
seat38a
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:50 pm

So First Class is behind Business Class?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting seat38a (Reply 20):
So First Class is behind Business Class?

Correct  
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seabosdca
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 14):
Is it likely that we will ever se a 747 ever come close to Boieng's 469 seat "prediction" ?

Yes, we'll see a 747-8 go well beyond that prediction.

The catch is that it will be with the second owner.

The sort of airlines that buy 747-8s (and A380s) new from the factory are generally going to have very premium configurations.

Transaero is an exception and may come close to 469 seats when it takes its 747-8s.
 
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:24 pm

Speaking of seating capacities: When Boeing was still making and selling 744s, it stated that the 744 would typically seat 416 for three classes and 524 for two classes, yet almost all airlines that have operated the 744 used seating configurations that seated significantly less than the numbers Boeing gave.
Long live the Boeing 747!
 
boeingmd82
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:20 pm

Heavens I wanted to love the A380, but when you go by pure looks, the 747-8i has no competition.
 
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:25 pm

Why does Air China not use the traditional First Class location, its the only airline to use the second cabin for First Class. It does this on their 744's too. Even Lufthansa, who had First on te upper deck on the 744, located their First Class in the nose on the 748.
 
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:30 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 25):
Why does Air China not use the traditional First Class location, its the only airline to use the second cabin for First Class. It does this on their 744's too. Even Lufthansa, who had First on te upper deck on the 744, located their First Class in the nose on the 748.

Probably CA felt that it *needed* 12 F, and the nose simply can't fit that many of their big box seats (BA can fit so many in the nose because of how small their F seat is)

747 upper deck is actually really inefficient for F. LH did 16F in their old config that doesn't even come with all-aisle access, or merely 8F with their super spacious but space wasting design of seat + bed (I tried it once on the 9pm JFK-FRA and loved it)
 
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 14):

It's true that Boeing uses an outdated method for seating capacity as they still use 60" for first, 40" for business, which practically nobody does anymore. Boeing does need to be more realistic these days.

Airbus first touted the A380 as able to carry 555 passengers but on average carry less than 500.

Just like with every aircraft, it all depends on the airlines configuration.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 8):
Just found a legit version of the seat map and translated it:

Great job kaichinshih   
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hilram
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 18):
Right now the sample size is 2 airlines. One has 4 classes. One has a high proportion of premium seats to Y seats (higher than on their A380s). If Korean Air and SQ (with the all C upper deck) were the only operators of the A380 would you call that a 400 seat plane?

The A388 is marketed as a 550-seat plane. The most common configuration is Emirates' 525 seats. That is a 5% miss (overshoot).

The B748 is marketed as a 469-seat plane. No config so far higher than 400-ish seats. That is a 17% miss (overshoot).

And in B marketing, these numbers are used in calculating seat-mile cost between the planes.


THAT is the bluff.
 

That being said, you are right in that the sample size is very low so far. I believe if TK selects the 748 we will se numbers above 400.
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 11):
And even so this plane only has room for 369 passengers. Seems like Airbus is right in calling Boeing's bluff of "469 passengers in a 3-class config". So far the highest configured 747-8i is Lufthansa with 405 passengers. The 747-8i is a 400-passenger plane, not a 470 passenger plane.

But this is nothing new for long-haul widebodies. Airbus said that the A380 could carry up to 800 passengers...and it can, but it probably never will. OEMs always market with a much higher density seat count than would actually be used in service. Less so on narrowbodies.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Airbus said that the A380 could carry up to 800 passengers...and it can, but it probably never will. OEMs always market with a much higher density seat count than would actually be used in service.

That's single class Economy. We don't know how many seats a realistic single class 747-8i or A380 would have because nobody uses that configuration.

For a three-class cabin Boeing uses outdated pitch in F (61") and J (39"), resulting in an unrealistic configuration. Therefore the average three-class cabin configuration with F, J and Y will have significant less seats than advertised.

Quoting hilram (Reply 29):
The A388 is marketed as a 550-seat plane. The most common configuration is Emirates' 525 seats. That is a 5% miss (overshoot).

Airbus uses a more realistic pitch in F and J, though that's going to change soon as airlines are moving from 60" seats to 80" flat beds in J.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 13):
Umm... Isn't the example shown a 4 class configuration?
Quoting hilram (Reply 14):
True, it is 4-class.

Even in three-class, the configuration would be 400-410 seats. Far away from 467.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):
Transaero is an exception and may come close to 469 seats when it takes its 747-8s.

I don't know, the airline will deploy its 747-8i's on premium routes while the A380s will be used on bulk routes.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):
The sort of airlines that buy 747-8s (and A380s) new from the factory are generally going to have very premium configurations.

True, although even a "normal" three class (Boeing) cabin will have significant less seats than advertised due to the reasons mentioned above.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 27):
Just like with every aircraft, it all depends on the airlines configuration.

True, but that doesn't change the point about the outdated OEM configuration.

[Edited 2014-09-30 15:31:17]
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:06 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):

I agree on everything you said. Makes me wonder what kind of an airline would be that stupid to believe in the OEM figures manufacturers provide...
 
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:04 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HygGwI3Ziw4

Advertisement of the CA 747-8
Showcases the carrier's history with the 747.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:20 am

Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 33):
Showcases the carrier's history with the 747.

Looks like a 777 around the :50 mark...

Just saying...
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kaichinshih
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 34):

Yes indeed! It should be B-2060, a 777-200 wearing the 'RED PHOENIX' livery

Great observations!!!

[Edited 2014-10-01 00:37:40]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 32):
Makes me wonder what kind of an airline would be that stupid to believe in the OEM figures manufacturers provide...

Don't worry, airlines don't look at the marketing figures  
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air China Releases 747-8I Cabin Info+Fly To LAX

Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 25):
Why does Air China not use the traditional First Class location, its the only airline to use the second cabin for First Class. It does this on their 744's too. Even Lufthansa, who had First on te upper deck on the 744, located their First Class in the nose on the 748.

It's probably because J is where they have the best potential to generate revenue so might as well focus on J. Chinese carriers have never had a strong reputation (or market) for an F class product. It's probably only being operated for prestige purposes. They'd be better off dropping F and adding more seats they can actually sell, meaning more Y seats.

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