Huge 747-8 Wing Wave On Delivery Flight

KPDX · Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:59 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnBr3enzW1I

Holy cow. Wow!

solnabo · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:04 am

Woooaaw That was a close call to stall...Scary!

Cheers

[Edited 2014-10-01 03:08:18]

JimJupiter · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:05 am

Wow...

lightsaber · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:11 am

Quoting solnabo (Reply 1):
Woooaaw That was a close call to stall...Scary!

That was my thought... what the... if the aircraft hadn't been light...

Lightsaber

BlueShamu330s · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:31 am

Clearly an ex Airbus jockey...

mwhcvt · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:33 am

Sadly what's the betting someone's going to be getting a serious grilling from their line manager in the not to distant future...lets not forget the CX pilot that also did a little bit of show boating after collecting a brand new 77W a few years back

bunumuring · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:37 am

How close did the port wing come to the ground!
That's amazing!
Thanks so much KPDX for sharing that video!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

747classic · Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:59 am

The next assignment for the crew : report ASAP at chief Pilots office. (or was it the chief Pilot himself ?)

scbriml · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:08 am

Wow, that looked pretty insane. Wow!

N14AZ · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:11 am

Quoting 747classic (Reply 7):
The next assignment for the crew : report ASAP at chief Pilots office. (or was it the chief Pilot himself ?)

I think they can skip this and go directly collecting their stuff in Luxembourg. Then start to write job applications, Hollywood might be a good address...

Seriously, let's hope there is another video from another direction.

[Edited 2014-10-01 04:24:27]

[Edited 2014-10-01 04:24:51]

andrej · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:16 am

Wow....crazy! But I do wish to have been in the cockpit, must have been a cool ride.

Thanks for sharing!

817Dreamliiner · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:25 am

Wow... I've never seen a wing wave done so low to the ground. Usually they would gain some altitude first before doing it.

kaichinshih · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:37 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 9):

People must hate social medias nowadays
Whatever you do just gets spreads around the world
Sorry to the pilots but I highly doubt that they will stay at Cargolux...

CX Flyboy · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:43 am

How would you guys know they were close to stalling? Amazing what people can deduce from watching a video.

holzmann · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:09 pm

Holy! Between 00:16-19 he seems to stand still. I have only seen the DLH pilots do it with their 748s and they do it much higher and at much shallower angles.

N14AZ · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:11 pm

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 13):
How would you guys know they were close to stalling? Amazing what people can deduce from watching a video.

That's why I asked if there is eventually another video from another position.

NC1844V · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:14 pm

Wow, that's crazy.

Thanks for sharing.

LH422 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:15 pm

It would be nice to be able to see this from a different perspective. It's very hard to judge the speed from that angle. But it does look crazy from that angle and awfully low.

trnswrld · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:30 pm

I read all the comments first and thought oh crap this video is going to be insane. Then watched it and was just a couple quick turns. Looked amazing don't get me wrong! You guys fail to realize that because of the angle and zoom it makes things look significantly more dramatic than they are. Airliners.net armchairs at its best.

Revelation · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:43 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 18):
Airliners.net armchairs at its best.

Well, I hope it's an optical illusion. The gear is out so we know he's slow and draggy. The large bank angles are moving the lift vector away from the drag vector, and we see that happen immediately after takeoff so we know he's not been able to pick up much speed. If it's my $300m aircraft I'm not sure I'd be at all happy about this because the maneuver doesn't serve any real purpose.

[Edited 2014-10-01 06:12:04]

Stealthz · Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:49 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 17):
It would be nice to be able to see this from a different perspective.

Absolutely
No professional organisation is going to send a bunch of kids to pick up a 748, if you watch this from side on instead of almost a dead astern, long telephoto it would look like a polite , thanks for making a great plane Boeing, wave

chiki · Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:02 pm

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah Scary !!!!!!

garpd · Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:35 pm

Holy cow. That was epic.

Definitely a ticking off for the PF if HQ see this video!

PanAm1971 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:29 pm

He looks very lite to me. I don't think there was a stall danger. Just the way the aircraft responds in the video says to me it is not heavy. Are we sure this is a delivery flight?

egph · Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:31 pm

Wait till this reaches the FAA!!

Clipper101 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:38 pm

This one looks to be an over done Goodbye wave from this angle, but from the vids on Youtube it seems a common maneuver on CLX delivery flights.

Here are another two with a rather more conservative Goodbye waves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y1cLnFw2ew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yjvhUxtx6E

pilotanthony · Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:47 pm

he definitely without any doubt had the stick shaker!! so close to a stall especially with that amount of bank angle and that slow speed!!

incredible

AeroWesty · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:07 pm

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
Holy cow.

"That's one nice thing about the ~~707~~ 748, it can do everything but read."

DIJKKIJK · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 9):
I think they can skip this and go directly collecting their stuff in Luxembourg. Then start to write job applications, Hollywood might be a good address.

Forget it. All they will get is a slap on the wrist and a 'bad boy! don't do it again!'

Miami · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:10 pm

Incredible!

Cheers to those brave pilots!

redzeppelin · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting Clipper101 (Reply 25):
Here are another two with a rather more conservative Goodbye waves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y1cLnFw2ew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yjvhUxtx6E

Thank you for those videos. When comparing the three, it looks like the flaps are set very differently in the new video than in the two you posted. In fact, in the new video, it doesn't look like the flaps are extended much at all. Is it just my imagination?

wilco737 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 30):
it doesn't look like the flaps are extended much at all. Is it just my imagination?

The 747 has only 2 flap settings for take off: Flaps 10 and Flaps 20. I guess the ones with the lower ones is flaps 10 then.

I am sure the airplane is pretty empty. Only a little fuel. What was its destination? Did they fly to LUX directly or somewhere else picking up some cargo?

Just because of a video we cannot judge how close they were to a stall. I am flying 747's myself and we pilots are well aware of the capabilities of the airplane. So they know how far they can pull the nose into the air and how many margin they had until the low speed warning of the airplane.
Trend vectors of the speed show if you are slowing down or not (or accelerating)...

So, let's not judge about something we haven't seen from the flight deck perspective.

Thanks.

wilco737

flyinTLow · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:27 pm

It is not so much the bank angle as it is much more performing the turn. You can see the spoilers coming up on one wing during the turn. Now just think how good it is for an aircraft to extend the spoilers right during takeoff. Not such a good idea!

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 31):
I am sure the airplane is pretty empty. Only a little fuel. What was its destination? Did they fly to LUX directly or somewhere else picking up some cargo?

The jet stopped in SEA first, delivery flight was PAE-SEA-LUX.

wilco737 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
The jet stopped in SEA first, delivery flight was PAE-SEA-LUX.

Thanks.

And PAE-SEA is a very very short flight. So not a lot fuel and for sure no cargo. So, with a normal take off you are 200 tons lighter than MTOW and that gives you an amazing performance. The take off is almost like an elevator then.

wilco737

N766UA · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:40 pm

Didn't look that crazy to me...

Flighty · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:41 pm

As an non pilot... I don't see much wrong. They were not close to stalling (why would they be?) As long as their speed was up, everything is fine. Considering the climb rate, you can dip the wings. It's just a bit too much.

Can definitely understand that as a philosophical matter, you don't want to play games with a 747 at a critical phase of flight.

psolk · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting flyinTLow (Reply 32):

That is the aileron commanding the roll. They are not deploying spoilers on takeoff, nor do spoilers deploy on one wing only...

I also question how people KNOW they got the stick shaker. Perhaps they were well within performance limitations for their W&B's. Heck, we have seen MUCH worse in demo flights and the wing is nowhere close to the ground BTW.

Let the armchair piloting continue though!

wilco737 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 36):
you don't want to play games with a 747 at a critical phase of flight.

I don't want to play games at any phase of the flight when I am sitting on the controls of the 747

Quoting psolk (Reply 37):
I also question how people KNOW they got the stick shaker.

We don't know. And as I said before, that short flight, they had an incredible amount of power and I am sure they were far away from the stick shaker or even the "AIRSPEED LOW" warning on their EICAS.

wilco737

laxboeingman · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:47 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
That was my thought... what the... if the aircraft hadn't been light...

I doubt they would have done that if they were heavy, or anything but empty. Would't you say this is a case of the pilot showing off what the new bird can do? Nevertheless, it was still careless and not the smartest thing to do.

flyinTLow · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting psolk (Reply 37):
That is the aileron commanding the roll. They are not deploying spoilers on takeoff, nor do spoilers deploy on one wing only...

Look at the video again. The last aircraft to only use ailerons to command roll was... I don't even know. But all aircraft nowadays use their spoilers as roll spoilers. As does the 747-8.

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:53 pm

Quoting Clipper101 (Reply 25):

This one looks to be an over done Goodbye wave from this angle, but from the vids on Youtube it seems a common maneuver on CLX delivery flights.

Here are another two with a rather more conservative Goodbye waves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y1cLnFw2ew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yjvhUxtx6E

Quoting N766UA (Reply 35):
Didn't look that crazy to me...

Wing waves are not unusual.

This one is a bit different though, the crew did the wave much closer to the ground and the bank was more aggressive than before. Other delivery flights make some height first and use less bank. The 787-9 did a similar maneuver at Farnborough and was banned afterwards. If the wing hits the ground it's over.

As wilco737 points out the jet was probably pretty light so the crew had enough power to avoid a low air speed warning. My only concern would be the wing coming so close to the ground.

[Edited 2014-10-01 09:05:04]

wilco737 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
My only concern would be the wing coming so close to the ground.

Exactly.
We have limitations on how much bank we are allowed to use at low altitudes. And usually we don't use more than 25° and these 25° are not allowed below 500 feet above the ground. And of course, the lower the less bank allowed.

wilco737

KarelXWB · Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:59 pm

Someone else manged to capture some photos:

CARGOLUX LX-VCJ Boeing 747-8 by moonm, on Flickr

CARGOLUX LX-VCJ Boeing 747-8 by moonm, on Flickr

See http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/ for more.

[Edited 2014-10-01 09:03:18]

wilco737 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 43):

On these pictures it looks far more dangerous to me. Especially the high bank at low altitude...

wilco737

PanAm1971 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:05 pm

Well... I don't know if these maneuvers were a good idea... but these pics are amazing!

pilotanthony · Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 36):

Quoting Flighty (Reply 36):
As an non pilot... I don't see much wrong. They were not close to stalling (why would they be?) As long as their speed was up, everything is fine. Considering the climb rate, you can dip the wings. It's just a bit too much

as well ALL know. A stall has NOTHING to do with airspeed. but EVERYTHING to do with Angle of attack/bank angle

laxboeingman · Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 44):
On these pictures it looks far more dangerous to me. Especially the high bank at low altitude...

The bank to the port side seems more dangerous and at a lower altitude than the bank to the starboard side. The latter doesn't look as bad in the photo as it did in the video.

wilco737 · Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:09 pm

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 47):
The bank to the port side seems more dangerous and at a lower altitude than the bank to the starboard side. The latter doesn't look as bad in the photo as it did in the video.

For me both look dangerously close to the ground according to the pictures. I mean, the wings are huge and with too much bank they can easily touch the ground. Even during landing we are not allowed to have more than 5° bank or an engine or wing can struck the ground.
Sure, this was a take off, but the bank angle looks a little too steep to me on the picture.
Yes, I wasn't on board and don't know how much bank they had...

wilco737

Dallas · Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 44):

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 43):

On these pictures it looks far more dangerous to me. Especially the high bank at low altitude...

Amazing pictures but wow that looks dangerous at that altitude. 5 seconds later after taking off and getting some altitude would make this a non-topic, but wow on everything. The low altitude, high bank, and looks like it could stall at any second.

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