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HALFA
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Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Local news outlets here in Honolulu are reporting that the Hawaii Tourism Authority are in discussions with officials in Oslo and Norwegian Air about the carrier's interest in starting the first nonstop scheduled service flight from Europe to Honolulu.
Specifics are not provided, however, the news articles say that the flight would utilize a 787 aircraft seating 291 passengers, and would fly nonstop from Oslo to Honolulu over the North Pole. More here:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/n...ity-discussing-nonstop-flight.html

http://www.kitv.com/news/direct-hono...ulunorway-flight-in-talks/28403632

Aloha,
HALFA
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:53 pm

Although it can seem attractive to serve HNL nonstop from Europe, I'm not sure whether it could be successful even for a company like Norwegian. And Hawaii is not really cheap.
 
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rotating14
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:11 pm

I think its a good idea actually. It gives travelers another option for a winter vacation spot. The 787 would have the legs for the trip and folks who are tired of the French Riviera, Ibiza and Italy can explore the other side of paradise.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:15 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
Although it can seem attractive to serve HNL nonstop from Europe, I'm not sure whether it could be successful even for a company like Norwegian. And Hawaii is not really cheap.

I can't see where Hawaii would be an attractive vacation destination for most Europeans. There are so many other great vacation options that aren't so far away. It would be interesting to see if this market would work but I don't really see it happening.
 
frostyj
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:21 pm

I think that would be a little ffar..
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jetblue1965
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:23 pm

Probably launching it like 2x weekly with agreements / guarantees from tour package operators

The risk for them is low. As long as their 787 reliability improves by then.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:23 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 3):
There are so many other great vacation options that aren't so far away.

That's true, however ten years ago I discovered that many European tourists had travelled for Christmas as far as Thailand, which isn't very close to Europe either.

[Edited 2014-10-04 16:24:31]
 
9w748capt
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:24 pm

Hawaii is an amazing place no doubt - but not sure how LCC and ULH mix...
 
S75752
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:26 pm

Who would Norwegian interline with for island to island? The whole point of Hawaii is that each island is different, interlines are an absolute must...
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
Who would Norwegian interline with for island to island? The whole point of Hawaii is that each island is different, interlines are an absolute must...

How many of the potential crowd of tourists that Norwegian intends to fly halfway around the world, intend to visit different islands, and how many will essentially go there for fun, sea, sun and partying?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:41 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 3):
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
Although it can seem attractive to serve HNL nonstop from Europe, I'm not sure whether it could be successful even for a company like Norwegian. And Hawaii is not really cheap.


I can't see where Hawaii would be an attractive vacation destination for most Europeans. There are so many other great vacation options that aren't so far away. It would be interesting to see if this market would work but I don't really see it happening.

Agree. It's more than 1,000 miles further than other beach destinations popular with Scandinavians such as Thailand.

And it's doubtful that it would be more frequent than twice a week or so which is a costly and inefficient use of crews since they'd be spending 3 or 4 nights in HNL until the next flight, and I can't see an LCC like Norwegian leaving an expensive 787 parked overnight at HNL to permit the same crew to operate the return flight.

And there's no shortage of convenient connections for Europeans who want to visit Hawaii. On such a long trip I expect many would want to include a stopover somewhere else in North America anway. And apart from using up a day of your vacation time in each direction just to get there and back, the jetlag from the 12 hr. time difference (11 in winter) would be a killer.
 
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HELyes
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:49 pm

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 2):
It gives travelers another option for a winter vacation spot. The 787 would have the legs for the trip and folks who are tired of the French Riviera, Ibiza and Italy can explore the other side of paradise.

Southern Europe doesn't offer beach holidays in winter season, the Canary Islands are the closest you get. Hawaii would compete with package holiday destinations like Thailand, Caribbean, Florida. Thinking the Nordic holiday makers, I'm sure an affordable (possible?) package holiday in Hawaii would attract many. How is the price level in Hawaii comparing to Florida?

[Edited 2014-10-04 16:55:35 by HELyes]
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:53 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 6):
That's true, however ten years ago I discovered that many European tourists had travelled for Christmas as far as Thailand, which isn't very close to Europe either.

Thailand can be cheap (and still enjoyable) once one gets there. Hawaii is not cheap.
 
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ua2162
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:55 pm

Lots of Europeans travel here now. It might just work.

I think they could fill it a few days a week. The article said it would be a 13 hour flight time. Not too bad.
 
HALFA
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:01 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 1):
And Hawaii is not really cheap.

Hawaii may not be "cheap" but Hawaii is beautiful. Hawaii has arguably the best climate year round on the planet, and most importantly, Hawaii is safe. Violent crime against tourists is very rare here, something that other so called "beach" destinations popular with Europeans like Thailand, Taba, Mexico, and Rio De Janeiro cannot claim.
Build a bridge and they will come.

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HELyes
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:01 am

Quoting ua2162 (Reply 13):
The article said it would be a 13 hour flight time. Not too bad.

Yes not bad. My AY A343 flight from Krabi, Thailand to Helsinki in Dec takes 11,5h.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:01 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 12):
Hawaii is not cheap.

I know and I said it in my first reply. I use Thailand as an example to show that Europeans don't necessarily stay within two to six flying hours for their beach holidays, even if they have places that can fit in that.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:01 am

Disaster. Hot! But a disaster. Norwegian is losing lots of money on the relatively shorter longhauls it has already, never mind Hawaii.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:02 am

1-2x week should be an easy fill for them. The question is if the 787 is reliable enough for the mission, and what real potential there is to make enough off the run to be worth it? LAS makes more sense to me but, I guess they are going after that untapped market and are probably looking for nice incentives?
 
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HELyes
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:13 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 14):
Violent crime against tourists is very rare here, something that other so called "beach" destinations popular with Europeans like Thailand, Taba, Mexico, and Rio De Janeiro cannot claim.

I would say any crime against tourists is rare in Thailand, my experience is that Bangkok has less pickpockets than a big European city. The mad road traffic is the biggest danger.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:50 am

Norwegians LOVE their winter holidays to warm, sunny beach destinations...I think Hawaii would be a hit. We have relatives from Oslo that have stopped to visit us in SEA before heading over to Hawaii....they love it there! And when it comes to expensive...don't worry about the Norsk. Highest standard living in the world means they can afford to travel pretty much anywhere they like.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:00 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
Probably launching it like 2x weekly with agreements / guarantees from tour package operators

The risk for them is low. As long as their 787 reliability improves by then.

Agreed. Although I think LGW would have more market potential than OSL.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
Agree. It's more than 1,000 miles further than other beach destinations popular with Scandinavians such as Thailand.

Hawaii would be a new, exotic destination for Scandinavians looking for a change from Thailand or Torremolinos. I'm sure Norwegian could be successful with a seasonal 2x weekly flight.
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Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:16 am

Must say I'm a bit surprised by this. I would have thought Norwegian would try for other destinations first than Hawaii ...

What would be the best equipmnet for this route. Would it work With the 787-7 or wil they wait until 2016 when they get the 787-9's ?
 
kl911
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 18):
The question is if the 787 is reliable enough for the mission

That's the issue i'm afraid too. how often do their 787's divert or go tech? Too often IMO
 
S75752
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:58 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 22):

What would be the best equipmnet for this route. Would it work With the 787-7 or wil they wait until 2016 when they get the 787-9's ?

The range is a piece of cake for the -8, but the question is load factor, and in my opinion how they'd get people to other islands and back. Hawaii isn't set where you can just go to HNL and be satisfied, each island offers different things.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:19 am

It says that their also in talks with Oslo airport so it probably means that it will operate form OSL.
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CXfirst
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:25 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
And it's doubtful that it would be more frequent than twice a week or so which is a costly and inefficient use of crews since they'd be spending 3 or 4 nights in HNL until the next flight, and I can't see an LCC like Norwegian leaving an expensive 787 parked overnight at HNL to permit the same crew to operate the return flight.

Perhaps, ARN, CPH or LGW will see 1-2 weekly as well eventually, that should make crewing better.

I think Hawaii can work. There are plenty of Norwegian families that would like a new option that isn't Thailand, especially as Thailand is perceived a bit as a party destination, not all that suited for young families. I know a few that have gone to Hawaii recently, but usually in combination with a big city stopover like New York. But even if they wanted to combine it with New York for instance, they can always fly DY to JFK and back from HNL.

-CXfirst
 
Aeri28
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:51 am

Hawaii has a lot of history, culture, scenery, volcanoes, mountains, surfing, water sports, great weather much of the year and also Hawaii is part of the US,, it's Hawaii, but with the familiarization of America. You can communicate in a unifiying language, you can drink the water, eat the food and it's safe.

I don't really see it as far fetched as some of you . I live here and see and hear a tremdous amount of scandanavian esque speakers , and eastern european accents. Adventurous tourists, lots of students in language schools. It's probablly not just for the benefit of Norwegians, but the general Scandanavia, east europe, southern europe travelers in those areas. Im sure the prices would be lower in comparison with other companies and the shorter connections and non stop service from Norway elminates the need to stop several times en route.
 
Max Q
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:11 am

Are you kidding, have you spent much time in Scandinavia in the winter ?


This will be a huge hit, the ability to fly non stop to Hawaii and get out of all that cold and darkness will be a huge draw.
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BestWestern
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:20 am

No European carrier or tour operator has attempted this for years for a reason - lack of demand at the price need to break even.

Other equally 'exotic' locations are hundreds, if not thousands of dollars cheaper for a two week holiday as the flight duration is shorter, and hotels far cheaper.

For example, two weeks in November at the holiday inn Waikiki resort in Hawaii is 3050USD. A similar date stay in Phuket at the holiday inn resort is 1,500USD.
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ukoverlander
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:40 am

Don't get me wrong Hawaii is nice, (I've been 4 times having lived on the West Coast for 15 years now) but ultimately it's just another tropical tourist destnation. From Europe, given the choice between a 13.5 hour flight to Hawaii with let's not forget, a horrendous 12 hour time difference (and therefore copious amounts of unnecessary jet lag) to get some sun, I'd rather spend my money on a shorter flight with less jet lag to the Far East, the Maldives, Mauritius, the Seychelles, the Caribbean., etc..

There are simply too many comparible tropical destinations closer to Europe and ultimately Hawaii holds much more appeal to the average passport-less Amercan who wants the convenience of spending US dollars, than to Europeans who tend to be are more used to foreign vacations and usng foreign currency.

If Hawaii were an alternative leisure stop-over on an the Kangaroo route (not even sure if that is viable given HA haven't even tried it), then I could perhaps see more value in the proposition. Otherwise I think it would just be a short term "novelty" unlikely stay the course.

[Edited 2014-10-04 22:46:25]
 
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RWA380
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:05 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 24):
Hawaii isn't set where you can just go to HNL and be satisfied, each island offers different things.

That is just a 30-45 minute flight from HNL to any outer island on HA or MW.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 29):
Other equally 'exotic' locations are hundreds, if not thousands of dollars cheaper for a two week holiday as the flight duration is shorter, and hotels far cheaper

Why do people keep bringing up cheap as a qualifier for a vacation? Surely there are those here that do not book vacations based purely on the cheapest destination. As has been pointed out above, Norwegians are well educated & on average, well paid.

My friends sister is engaged to a nice man from Norway, his folks are constantly on vacation somewhere very nice in the world, flying the whole family along. Hawaii has been a destination before, nicely they stay for several weeks given the time zone adjustment hurdles they must overcome.
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KirkSeattle
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:15 am

They have a good business model, but certainly have things to work out if this is their plan. Hawaii? Even to the mainland US can be a hassle if you have a delay. Could you imagine being stuck in Hawaii for 2 days? And before you say, it's not that bad, read this:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11301547

I truly wish them well, if this is what they are in the game for. It would be wonderful to vacation with the wonderful people of Scandinavia!
 
LY777
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:26 am

Hawaii is NOT comparable to any destination in the world.
The atmosphere is different, the climate is FAR better then most tropical islands: Summers are dry, Winters are warmer than Florida or the Bahamas for the example.
And there is so much to see!
The only negative point is indeed the time difference: I was in Hawaii this summer, and it took me 3 weeks to get over it!

Even with a nonstop flight, a European can't say he will spend only 1 week in HI
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KirkSeattle
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:32 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 33):
The only negative point is indeed the time difference: I was in Hawaii this summer, and it took me 3 weeks to get over it!

Most mainland US flights are redeye's. What does that mean for the trip back to Scandinavia?

Quoting LY777 (Reply 33):
And there is so much to see!

It's the one place I've learned to relax! Merci!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:19 am

Price is without question a qualifier for a holiday and considering it otherwise is foolish. For people considering a low cost airline with the shocking reputation of Norwegian Long Haul, price is a major qualifier. If someone can afford twice the room price for a hotel in an 'exotic' location they won't be flying with their knees around their ears for an extra 1,000 miles on a Norwegian ultra high density aircraft.

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 32):

They don't yet have a good business model. They are still seriously loss making on long haul.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 33):

Of course Hawaii is comparable to other holiday islands.

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 34):

Depends when Norwegian actually turn up!
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JetBuddy
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:27 am

I think there's demand for it. Hawaii is a typical honeymoon destination, or fancy holiday destination if you like. I know plenty of people who's been there (fellow Norwegians). It would be like flying to the Maldives or Phuket or any other distant tropical destination. And I am convinced Norwegian has done some research about the demand beforehand.

And it's not really that far, I'm looking at the Great Circle Mapper right now.. the flight would go almost directly across the North Pole, then across Alaska and the Pacific.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=OSL-HNL
 
AngMoh
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:37 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 29):
Other equally 'exotic' locations are hundreds, if not thousands of dollars cheaper for a two week holiday as the flight duration is shorter, and hotels far cheaper.

For example, two weeks in November at the holiday inn Waikiki resort in Hawaii is 3050USD. A similar date stay in Phuket at the holiday inn resort is 1,500USD.

A two week stay in a crap hotel in scandinavia is USD$3250 and up. Add up cost of food and anything else and Hawaii is cheap compared to Norway. On the other hand the Holiday Inn in Phuket is not $1500 USD for 2 weeks, it is around USD$2500. The last taxi driver in Oslo I spoke to was planning a 3 week holiday in the US while the year before he spent 3 weeks in Phuket. If any region in Europe can make Hawaii holidays work, it is Scandinavia and Norway in specific.
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JetBuddy
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:40 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
Agree. It's more than 1,000 miles further than other beach destinations popular with Scandinavians such as Thailand.

It's a 6700 NM flight.. 1000 miles more or less doesn't matter. People already fly to Hawaii and other distant holiday destinations like the Maldives, Seychelles, Bali, Phuket or Mauritius.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
And it's doubtful that it would be more frequent than twice a week or so which is a costly and inefficient use of crews since they'd be spending 3 or 4 nights in HNL until the next flight, and I can't see an LCC like Norwegian leaving an expensive 787 parked overnight at HNL to permit the same crew to operate the return flight.

Norwegian uses cheap labor on their long haul operations (Americans and Thai). I don't like it one bit, but that's how they operate. And I doubt it would be twice weekly. Maybe during the start-up, but I'm pretty sure they would quickly connect Copenhagen or Stockholm making it four times weekly.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
And there's no shortage of convenient connections for Europeans who want to visit Hawaii. On such a long trip I expect many would want to include a stopover somewhere else in North America anway. And apart from using up a day of your vacation time in each direction just to get there and back, the jetlag from the 12 hr. time difference (11 in winter) would be a killer.

No thank you, I do not think most people want to include a stopover somewhere stateside just for fun. Jetlag sucks.. thats true, but westbound it's not a problem anyway.

Quoting hiflyeras (Reply 20):
Norwegians LOVE their winter holidays to warm, sunny beach destinations...I think Hawaii would be a hit. We have relatives from Oslo that have stopped to visit us in SEA before heading over to Hawaii....they love it there! And when it comes to expensive...don't worry about the Norsk. Highest standard living in the world means they can afford to travel pretty much anywhere they like.

Exactly! I don't think most people are aware that most Norwegians have 4-5 weeks paid vacation every year.
 
HALFA
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:06 am

Quoting ukoverlander (Reply 30):
There are simply too many comparible tropical destinations closer to Europe and ultimately Hawaii holds much more appeal to the average passport-less Amercan who wants the convenience of spending US dollars, than to Europeans who tend to be are more used to foreign vacations and usng foreign currency.


If Europeans vacationed in Hawaii, this would be a "foreign" vacation for them and they would be using foreign currency.
I don't get your point.
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pylon101
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:14 am

A Norwegian family or a single male trading Thailand for Hawaii?
I don't know.
Hawaii is a nice place to visit. Once.
However, Europeans used to go to Thailand for two weeks at least.
Thailand is addictive.
One can choose beach and/or trip to the North of Thailand; shopping in Singapore or Kuala-Lumpur. Visiting Khmer temples.
And all these treasures within 1.5 hour flight. And easy on Air Asia.
Besides, EK offers amazing deals for 1-3 day stops in Dubai.
Viability of the route is doubtful.
I am on EK 231/232. The rest is just jet lag.
 
HAL
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 38):
It's a 6700 NM flight..

OSL - HNL is about 5900nm. OSL to both Seychelles and Maldives is about 4400nm, and OSL to Bangkok is about 4700nm.

They're all long flights, but Hawaii isn't an impossible distance farther than the others.

HAL
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BestWestern
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:31 am

Anh Moh, The prices for hotels I quoted above are actual tax inclusive prices I checked earlier for 1 to 15 November. The hotel price is just one of the price equations - add to the extra $1500 hotel cost the higher cost of living, local transport, etc to the extra cost of a 1k longer flight.

If Hawaii is so viable from Europe why is nobody flying the route. Even with the benefit of alliances and connections, nobody has deemed it viable. Hawaiian are not planning Europe either - if anyone knows the market - it's them.
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SCQ83
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:33 am

It is interesting that Norwegian tries to start new routes with no competition. They can in this case attract a different crowd that is willing to pay more just for the convenience of flying non-stop, and not just because Norwegian is "cheap".

This is a market that Ryanair taps in Europe. Many people here moan about how Ryanair is only flown when it is the cheapest available, but the fact is that there are dozens and probably hundreds of Ryanair city-pairs where you have no other option unless you go one-stop.

Doing that LH and even ULH is another story though, since costs are at another level. But interesting nonetheless.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 29):
For example, two weeks in November at the holiday inn Waikiki resort in Hawaii is 3050USD. A similar date stay in Phuket at the holiday inn resort is 1,500USD.

We live in the era of Internet. While Thailand is no question way cheaper than Hawaii, today you can find any kind of arrangements in the Internet to lower those costs; I am thinking for instance of Airbnb , Homeaway, etc. Also Scandinavians have usually traveled since very young age and they have been probably a trillion times to Thailand or Alfas del Pi, so a bit of a change is not bad.

Low-costs in Europe and Asia have stimulated city-break traffic to cities that before saw little tourism, just because of the convenience of (cheap) non-stop connections. The Internet allows people to easily book holidays in remote places or places that were not previously targeted to that nationality. Tourism not only has became global but way more mixed.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:51 am

Without question the flights will be busy.. But... You seriously expect people who will consider slumming it on the floor of an airnb doss house to pay the yield necessary to make such a long haul flight profitable? There is zero business yield or VFR traffic on the city pair, so the average leisure fare will have to cover the operating costs.

Hawaii to Europe is too far to be done efficiently and cheaply. The demand has to stimulated from close to zero which means yields will be trashed.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 43):

Low cost short haul is a different beast to long haul low cost. The business economics are totally different due to the higher aircraft per passenger utilisation, fuel costs and operating complexities.

Can someone work out the average break even fare for OSL HNL in comparison to an OSL HKT on Norwegian?
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Max Q
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 33):
Hawaii is NOT comparable to any destination in the world.
The atmosphere is different, the climate is FAR better then most tropical islands: Summers are dry, Winters are warmer than Florida or the Bahamas for the example.
And there is so much to see!
The only negative point is indeed the time difference: I was in Hawaii this summer, and it took me 3 weeks to get over it!

Even with a nonstop flight, a European can't say he will spend only 1 week in HI

Well said, and the detractors underestimate the totally different 'exotic' appeal of the islands. While many Scandinavians may have travelled to thailand, vietnam etc, Hawaii is something totally different and, like most Europeans will be a big 'bragging point' with neighbours.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
TC957
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:33 am

Providing the travel industry and tour operators in Scandinavia get behind this venture then I'd say to DY give it a go for a season and see how well it does.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:55 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 16):
I use Thailand as an example to show that Europeans don't necessarily stay within two to six flying hours for their beach holidays, even if they have places that can fit in that.

Cost is an essential factor. They choose to fly to Thailand because it is cheaper than closer options such as the Mediterranean. If Thailand was the same price, far less would make the trip.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 31):
Why do people keep bringing up cheap as a qualifier for a vacation?

Because this is how the European market is evolving. The once-a-year somewhat-expensive vacation is being replaced by several cheap trips throughout the year.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:57 am

- Norwegian recently participated in the international route conference in Chicago. There we meet with about 150 representatives from airports and tourism business from many different countries and regions, including Hawaii. There is no doubt that Hawaii is a popular destination, but we have no immediate plans to launch direct flights with the Dreamliner between Scandinavia and Hawaii, says director of information Lasse Sandakerveien-Nielsen Hegnar.no.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2014/10/05/n...egnarno/norwegian/hawaii/35590158/

So nothing set in stone yet then ...
 
AngMoh
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RE: Norwegian Air In Talks To Start Hawaii Flights

Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:58 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 42):
Anh Moh, The prices for hotels I quoted above are actual tax inclusive prices I checked earlier for 1 to 15 November. The hotel price is just one of the price equations - add to the extra $1500 hotel cost the higher cost of living, local transport, etc to the extra cost of a 1k longer flight.

Same booking engine, same room, advance booking for March:
* Holiday Inn Phuket USD$179/night
* Holiday Inn Waikiki USD$199/night

Another minor detail: The season matters a lot. You can get Phuket in July dirt cheap because it is monsoon season (May-November). In the dry/sunny season (December-April) prices go up a lot! For example for weather, July (Europe summer holidays), Phuket is quite miserable. Book for July and the prices are:

Same booking engine, same room, advance booking for July:
* Holiday Inn Phuket USD$125/night
* Holiday Inn Waikiki USD$215/night
And yes, Phuket is suddenly cheap (and windy and wet).

Book the Europe peak season in 2nd January and the prices suddenly are:
* Holiday Inn Phuket USD$237/night
* Holiday Inn Waikiki USD$244/night

7USD a night does not make a difference to a Norwegian. It does not even buy you a beer in an Oslo Supermarket...

And for the other stuff, to Norwegian standards the US is cheap.

If DY can work with the tour operators and run this route without delays (which I think will be the challenge), I can see it work.
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