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NZ107
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The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:10 am

http://www.ausbt.com.au/etihad-partners-the-fourth-airline-alliance

EY has just formed Etihad Partners - an partnership between airberlin, Air Serbia, Air Seychelles, Jet Airways, Darwin Airline and EY, with synergies such as frequent flyer benefits and more choice over other airline networks. I would expect more airlines to join (if VA doesn't join this partnership, does that push it closer to *A?).

I wonder what this will mean for AB and OW, if it goes on to be more than a 'partnership'.

Interesting times, I suppose.

[Edited 2014-10-08 01:12:40]

[Edited 2014-10-08 01:14:14]
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:34 am

They'll need a fair few more partners if they want to be taken seriously.

With all due respect to the members in Etihad's "inner circle", most of them are "oddballs". The 'member' airlines individually nor in aggregate have any global reach or brand recognition.

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):
and more choice over other airline networks

I hope they don't mean destinations   , because they are missing a member airline on the following continents:

Asia,
North America
South America
Africa

Unless of course, James Hogan has some grand plans up his sleeves and plans on buying into more airlines...
 
PanHAM
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:09 am

Partners? All of the above are depending on EY.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
Unless of course, James Hogan has some grand plans up his sleeves and plans on buying into more airlines...

That might overstretch even an Emir's purse, especially when they find out that they cannot make the intended nuse of the investments because of some local ownership laws and similar nitty gritty and which cannot be overruled by writing checks.
 
runway23
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:24 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
Partners? All of the above are depending on EY.

Not depending. They would all be gone if Etihad were not there to pump millions in them, they are all past life support.

Etihad's playbook is taken directly from what Swissair Group did with Qualiflyer, the difference this time is that Abu Dhabi have an endless pit of money to throw at carriers who at the end of the day have less of a chance of posting profits than pigs starting to fly in Abu Dhabi.
 
JU068
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:28 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
to throw at carriers who at the end of the day have less of a chance of posting profits than pigs starting to fly in Abu Dhabi

Well, Air Serbia did announce that they might record a small profit this year which is quite an improvement given the fact Jat Airways recorded a loss of €77 million last year.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:42 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
Not depending. They would all be gone if Etihad were not there to pump millions in them, they are all past life support.

Very true. We haven't seen any improvement with Air Berlin since they have been partly bought by EY. Hogan claims that alliances are not what airlines need. Fair enough but I would not have flown AB if it was not part of OneWorld and me an Exec Club member.
 
PanHAM
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:54 am

[quote=runway23,reply=3Not depending. They would all be gone if Etihad were not there to pump millions in them, they are all past life support.[/quote]

basically the same. At least AB wuld be gone already if they hadn't been obviously classified as 2too big to fail2 by the German LBA. At a far earlier stage, tiny Air Cargo Germany had their AOC pulled by the same LBA. Looks like they leave that now to the EU commission to decide.
 
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777Jet
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:55 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
With all due respect to the members in Etihad's "inner circle", most of them are "oddballs". The 'member' airlines individually nor in aggregate have any global reach or brand recognition.

Calling Etihad's 'inner circle' partners 'Oddballs' is being nice  
Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
They'll need a fair few more partners if they want to be taken seriously.

They'll need partners that aren't 'oddballs' as well 

I don't see any serious alliance here in the making...

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
Partners? All of the above are depending on EY.

Not depending. They would all be gone if Etihad were not there to pump millions in them, they are all past life support.

  
 
Laxjaydub
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:43 am

What about Alitalia?
 
Nimish
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:05 am

Sounds like a marketing/ brand building activity - for Etihad. I don't get what's in it for customers?
 
B777LRF
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:07 am

News out of Germany is, that EY will have to discontinue code-sharing on around 20 AB flights, and that further expansion by AB cannot be code-shared with EY.

Businessplan well and truly shot down then, and next we hear is this hare-brained idea.
 
xiaotung
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:09 am

Quoting laxjaydub (Reply 8):
What about Alitalia?

Unlike oneworld which doesn't seem to care what members do, perhaps SkyTeam has said no.

Also VA not participating probably means they want to remain open to *A.
 
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777Jet
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:11 am

Quoting laxjaydub (Reply 8):
What about Alitalia?

I think it would be fair enough to apply the below comment to EY's relationship with Alitalia  
Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
They would all be gone if Etihad were not there to pump millions in them, they are all past life support.

From wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alitalia

"" In late 2013, facing bankruptcy, the loss of a major fuel supplier, and a possible grounding by Italy's civil aviation authority, the airline announced a €500 million rescue package which includes a €75 million investment by the Italian state-owned postal operator.[6]
Airbus A320-200 in Alitalia livery
An Alitalia Boeing 777-200ER at landing
Alitalia Airbus A320-200

On August 1, 2014, the Abu Dhabi-based UAE national airline Etihad Airways confirmed it had agreed to terms with Alitalia on taking a 49% stake in the Italian airline. This deal was signed on August 8, 2014.[7] ""


Sounds like Alitalia is already hooked up to the EY life support system  
 
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enilria
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:56 am

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):
http://www.ausbt.com.au/etihad-partners-the-fourth-airline-alliance

EY has just formed Etihad Partners - an partnership between airberlin, Air Serbia, Air Seychelles, Jet Airways, Darwin Airline and EY, with synergies such as frequent flyer benefits and more choice over other airline networks. I would expect more airlines to join (if VA doesn't join this partnership, does that push it closer to *A?).

VA=Virgin Australia?
Seem like the DL deal should lead them to ST. Why not?
 
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Polot
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:01 pm

While EY has signed a deal with Alitalia it must still be confirmed by the regulatory authorities. So it is a little premature to include them in the partnership at this time.
 
Qantasistheway
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:43 pm

It's an interesting development and what seems like a smart move. Clearly it's not meant to be like a traditional alliance, nor rival one, however it does bring on some pretty clear benefits to guests.

I can imagine it will consolidate the frequent flyer programs into a more consistent product across the partners, making it less confusing for members of the existing frequent flyer schemes. The way they work so closely together will probably also make using these points far easier, and I'm sure that EY along with the other more 'established' members will be able to charge premiums for redemptions on their flights - after all you get a lot more onboard an EY flight than you would onboard most others. It's actually a pretty clever way of revitalising or growing the frequent flyer programs of the partners - obviously there were benefits to be had when flying EY for them before, but making it a much simpler process will make it more appealing. There will be a hell of a lot of people that live in markets served will by the partners that prefer other carriers - this now gives an alternative. It also benefits EY in that they can field passengers into Abu Dhabi through a more attractive value proposition.

At the end of the day, it's funnelling traffic through AUH and putting EY at the centre of the partners - linking them together. AUH needs more traffic to grow and the fastest way of doing this is by growing EY and it's partners.
 
aviationaware
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:05 pm

A bunch of second rate airlines. Hardly a serious alliance.
 
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Faro
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:23 pm

You can use several different yardsticks to measure the success -or potential success- of an equity alliance. The most widely used and accepted is financial performance which is not possible with EY given that they do not publish full and transparent financial information.

On a public relations or marketing level, it's easier to make a case for this alliance's success because it's all qualitative throughput...


Faro
 
flyby519
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:28 pm

If the ME3 carriers could all join forces and create an alliance then that would be something to pay attention to. This Etihad Partners looks more like a holding company than an alliance.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
With all due respect to the members in Etihad's "inner circle", most of them are "oddballs"

Jet Airways isn't exactly an 'oddball' and neither is Air Berlin.


Agreed about Air Serbia and Air Seychelles though. Difficult to see what they are bringing on the table.
 
Qantasistheway
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 19):
Agreed about Air Serbia and Air Seychelles though. Difficult to see what they are bringing on the table.

There's a lot of holiday traffic to the Seychelles from Europe - so having an equity investment makes sense for those traffic flows. Further than that though, the Seychelles is a premium holiday destination and it's home airline does have the potential to perform if run well and is an important contributor to the local economy - similar to EY for Abu Dhabi.

Air Serbia deal makes a lot more sense when you look at the economic ties that the UAE and Serbia are building up - particularly in regards to agriculture! There's a bit more going on there than meets the eye!
 
JU068
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:59 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 19):
Agreed about Air Serbia and Air Seychelles though. Difficult to see what they are bringing on the table.

Air Serbia brings the Balkan market which is not that small or insignificant, just look at how long Austrian Airlines has fought to preserve its dominance there, especially in ex-Yugoslavia.
During the 2014 summer season Air Serbia had considerably increased its presence throughout the peninsula, the latest addition being Tirana. Let's not forget that Air Serbia is a small, regional carrier which will handle around 2 million passengers this year.

Interestingly enough, from the start of the winter season, Air Serbia will operate Etihad's daily flight between Belgrade and Abu Dhabi and before the return flight it will also operate EY's flight to Muscat.
I heard a rumour that they will do this because EY plans on transferring the remaining two A319s to JU.
 
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cougar15
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting Qantasistheway (Reply 15):
I can imagine it will consolidate the frequent flyer programs into a more consistent product across the partners, making it less confusing for members of the existing frequent flyer schemes

now this is a good one! I had the pleasure of enjoying this new ´alliance´ on a recent flight from Frankfurt to Perth in Business! The check-in Agent at FRA looked at me in disbeliev! The Routing was FRA-AUH on EY, then a codeshare with Air Berlin from Abu Dhabi to Phuket, and HKT-PER on Virgin Oz !
there I had to collect my luggage in T1 and head over to T2 to join a Virgin Australia 737 to Perth (top Crew, horrid product in comparisem to the 2 widebodys before that, and especially on a 6.5 hr flight).
Everyone at Phuket looked at me with amazed face too, thankfully some local ground staff collected me at the gate to fasttrack me thru customs/security and all of that and even carried my bag to (re) check it at T2 in HKT for the VA PER flt!
seemless experience? yes well, forgive my irony........ no not really !
one top alliance this will be with the Partners involved.

PS nothing wrong at all with either the EY product on the first sector / ok, having lived in Germany for years, even the surprise sector on AB from AUH-HKT was more or less okay, but the whole Thing left a bit of a " what an oddessy, never again.." flavour in my mouth! Thankfully the return, PER-FRA was an all EY & hassle free affair!
But then, this Business flight was 800 bucks cheaper than EK or QR, so who am I to moan I guess!
 
seat38a
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:14 pm

It sounds like Swiss Air's qualiflyer miles. Prop up a bunch of failing airlines and then add them to your alliance. We all know what that propping up did for Swiss Air.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting seat38a (Reply 23):
It sounds like Swiss Air's qualiflyer miles. Prop up a bunch of failing airlines and then add them to your alliance. We all know what that propping up did for Swiss Air.

But this time around, EY has unlimited cash so it can sustain all the losses of these airlines if it wants to... It is about time the EU toughened it is open skies with the ME3s. It is not an even playing field anymore. We see airlines in Europe trying to figure out how to run their business profitably and others being injected money from oil rich countries.
 
UAEflyer
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:31 pm

I think Etihad will keep adding more airlines into its circle or holding company if you like. I would think that they are looking into a North American airline as a next investment, they want a chain from SYD to SEA crossing all countries in between.

Good luck EY, but I found it difficult to understand !!
 
JU068
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 24):

Why should the EU get involved? For years now Balkan airlines were bullied by (mostly) Lufthansa. No one complained back then so there is no reason why Brussels should get involved now. It's just that for the first time big European airlines are sensing on their own skin what they were doing to others.
 
Qantasistheway
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 22):
now this is a good one! I had the pleasure of enjoying this new ´alliance´ on a recent flight from Frankfurt to Perth in Business! The check-in Agent at FRA looked at me in disbeliev! The Routing was FRA-AUH on EY, then a codeshare with Air Berlin from Abu Dhabi to Phuket, and HKT-PER on Virgin Oz !
there I had to collect my luggage in T1 and head over to T2 to join a Virgin Australia 737 to Perth (top Crew, horrid product in comparisem to the 2 widebodys before that, and especially on a 6.5 hr flight).
Everyone at Phuket looked at me with amazed face too, thankfully some local ground staff collected me at the gate to fasttrack me thru customs/security and all of that and even carried my bag to (re) check it at T2 in HKT for the VA PER flt!
seemless experience? yes well, forgive my irony........ no not really !
one top alliance this will be with the Partners involved.

PS nothing wrong at all with either the EY product on the first sector / ok, having lived in Germany for years, even the surprise sector on AB from AUH-HKT was more or less okay, but the whole Thing left a bit of a " what an oddessy, never again.." flavour in my mouth! Thankfully the return, PER-FRA was an all EY & hassle free affair!
But then, this Business flight was 800 bucks cheaper than EK or QR, so who am I to moan I guess!

To be fair to the airline this is an obscure routing and it's not really comparable when a) the announcement of the 'partners' concept has only come out now and VA is not yet an actual part of it. So far the agreements have been codesharing and reciprocal frequent flyer sharing - hopefully product consistency on and off the ground will become a part of it. And b) on ground staff are usually the last to come across these changes - particularly as it was probably a third party ground staff.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 26):
Why should the EU get involved? For years now Balkan airlines were bullied by (mostly) Lufthansa. No one complained back then so there is no reason why Brussels should get involved now. It's just that for the first time big European airlines are sensing on their own skin what they were doing to others.

The EU does not allow airlines to be given money from government. Whether the government is in the EU or outside the EU should be the same. I have not idea what Lufthansa did to Balkan airlines but if BA, KM or CY are not allowed to get aid from their governments, I don't understand how can AZ, JU or AB be allowed to have unlimited cash from EY (Government of Abu Dhabi). It is just not fair. Otherwise, let's bring back subsidies.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:04 pm

At least come up with a better name...

Its not a bad start for an alliance, but they need more coverage. Like a US partner, B6 anyone? And south east Asia.

Now a Virgin Alliance would be cool.
 
JU068
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 28):

What has JU got to do with the rest of them? Serbia is not a member of the European Union thus it is not subject to EU rules and regulations. And no, it should not be the same. Had the Serbian government followed your logic, Jat Airways would have gone bankrupt years ago and we wouldn't have Air Serbia today. In the end we would have lost much more than what we would have gained.

Endless subventions are not the solution but the government should be allowed to step in from time to time and help out a company that's in trouble. As far as the EU goes, their approach to subventions is everything but black and white, we could see this from the cases of both airBaltic and Adria.  
 
strfyr51
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:22 pm

Alitalia has more lives than a CAT!! Every time they're on the brink of disaster somebody comes along to pull their Bacon out of the Fire.
The trouble seems to be, They never seem to be able to clean up their act.
Every time management proposes something to help? They pitch a fit and Strike!!
Could be management needs to trim their Fat and show the guys they mean Business
or even EK might be on the burners before long. .
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 31):
EK might be on the burners before long. .

The only difference it the UAE doesn't allow unions so their employees are literally at the mercy of the UAE govt, and strikes are illegal. And the Dubai city state has enough oil money to keep EK afloat in times of trouble. And the UAE economy is doing a lot better than the Italian economy.
 
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cougar15
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:06 pm

Quoting Qantasistheway (Reply 27):
To be fair to the airline this is an obscure routing and it's not really comparable when a) the announcement of the 'partners' concept has only come out now and VA is not yet an actual part of it. So far the agreements have been codesharing and reciprocal frequent flyer sharing - hopefully product consistency on and off the ground will become a part of it. And b) on ground staff are usually the last to come across these changes - particularly as it was probably a third party ground staff.

yup I will second all of that. This flt was on Sept 16, so well before the current anouncements! And I really should not moan! AB Staff were most plesant and local Staff at HKT (who obviously got a prealert of sorts as they were so anxious to grab hold of me with a big sign with my Name on it) really put in a top effort to look after me during Transit (albight HKT really is an interesting Airport ´in Transit´)! So not all my be quite as it should with this alliance and appreciating VA is not formally part of the anouncement (and intertesting fact for us A.nuts to speculate about if I might add, as the Posts above Show...), they really put in an effort to look after me on their non reclyining seat with no IFE on the 738!
Again, I probably should not moan, it was a very cheap J flight!
I noticed Refference to Swissair & Qualifiyer in These Posts. I have lived in Europe for over 20 years and do not feel we can compare EY´s efforts to the failed Swissair! EY is only 9 years old and my take a wrong turn or 2 in their strategic visions (we all have to learn), but I do feel they are here to stay and are putting in an exceptionally solid effort in those few years! perhaps the discussion on their strategies is one we could revisit in a year or 3 , and some of us may just end up eating their words........
 
sw733
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:14 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
Africa

No way, they have Africa covered:

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):
Air Seychelles

 
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 29):
And south east Asia
Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
because they are missing a member airline on the following continents:

Asia,

9W is an Asia based airline (India is very much in Asia, but specifically South Asia), and could potentially increase their coverage to other Asian destinations......they already fly to 5-6 destinations in S.Asia and SE Asia outside of India, but mostly from BOM, DEL and MAA.....
 
AABB777
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:41 pm

How does this impact AB's role in oneworld?
 
brilondon
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:33 am

Quoting laxjaydub (Reply 8):
What about Alitalia?

I don't think that Alitalia has much to offer any of the airlines mentioned above. They are always one foot in the grave and looking on how to improve their bottom line. My guess would be that Air Berlin would give them the European foothold they would want.
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:46 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 34):
Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):Africa
No way, they have Africa covered:

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):Air Seychelles

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 35):
9W is an Asia based airline (India is very much in Asia, but specifically South Asia), and could potentially increase their coverage to other Asian destinations......they already fly to 5-6 destinations in S.Asia and SE Asia outside of India, but mostly from BOM, DEL and MAA.....

I stand corrected, yes they do have 'representation' on those respective continents but I guess what I'm trying to say is that they don't have any 'members' with any meaningful coverage in those areas.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
With all due respect to the members in Etihad's "inner circle", most of them are "oddballs". The 'member' airlines individually nor in aggregate have any global reach or brand recognition.

Global reach?
Do all airlines in OW, Skyteam and Star have global reach?
EY will provide the global reach you are talking about. 9W is not bad either with service to the USA, UK, France, Italy and rest of Asia.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 1):
I hope they don't mean destinations   , because they are missing a member airline on the following continents:

Asia,

9W - India

Quoting runway23 (Reply 3):
Not depending. They would all be gone if Etihad were not there to pump millions in them, they are all past life support.

What about the airlines in USA from the 3 major alliances? Would they not be gone if not for Chapter 11?

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 16):
A bunch of second rate airlines. Hardly a serious alliance.

EY is a second rate airline? Have you seen the service on 9W?

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 38):
I stand corrected, yes they do have 'representation' on those respective continents but I guess what I'm trying to say is that they don't have any 'members' with any meaningful coverage in those areas.

9W has pretty good coverage in Asia. So does EY. What are you trying to say?
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:34 am

Quoting polot (Reply 14):
While EY has signed a deal with Alitalia it must still be confirmed by the regulatory authorities. So it is a little premature to include them in the partnership at this time.

Actually I just came back from a government event to promote the world expo and a single "Alitalia ETIHAD" logo was displayed all over the places under the event "official airline".
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 39):
Global reach?
Do all airlines in OW, Skyteam and Star have global reach?
EY will provide the global reach you are talking about. 9W is not bad either with service to the USA, UK, France, Italy and rest of Asia.

No one individual airline in Star/OW/Skyteam would have comprehensive global reach, but as a collective they do.

Just because EY fly to every continent doesn't mean they have comprehensive global coverage. Lets take the US as an example, EY fly to a handful of US destinations, what happens if someone wants to fly to SEA, IAH, DTW? They can't fly on EY nor their 'member group', on Oneworld/Star/Skyteam: You can fly AA/UA/Delta. Sure there are some holes in Oneworld/Star/Skyteam, but nothing compared with the massive gap in EY and their 'member' group's network.


Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 39):
9W has pretty good coverage in Asia. So does EY. What are you trying to say?

   Not sure EY nor 9W have what I would call "pretty good coverage" in Asia, for one, they don't exactly have a comprehensive network in China (the largest market).

[Edited 2014-10-08 19:47:44]
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 30):
What has JU got to do with the rest of them? Serbia is not a member of the European Union thus it is not subject to EU rules and regulations.

First of all, Serbia, IIRC , is an EU applicant state.

More relevant however is, that Serbia has signed an agreement to become part of the European Commocn Aviation Area.

You sign to become a member of the club, you have to follow the rules of a club.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:24 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 42):

Oh please... EU accession is all about politics, not merit. The fact we became a candidate state means very little in terms of our actual accession into the Union. There are fundamental differences between Belgrade and Brussels which means that we will not become a member of the Union before 2026. So why should we follow the EU regulation to the letter when our own accession is not certain? At least not in the next decade. This whole discussion becomes even more pointless when we take into consideration that a lot of EU states had a tendency to disregard the EU regulation but especially since the EU accession support among Serbs dropped to below 50%.

The European Common Aviation Area does not prevent a government from injecting money into its national carrier, or any carrier for that matter.

Even though Air Serbia still has a lot of problems, I believe that it is the most successful airline within the equity partnership. In just a year they managed to completely rebrand themselves (and to introduce Aviolet), it trained its personnel for Airbus (since the airline introduced 2 A320 and 8 A319), it launched its own maintenance line, it increased its revenue by 82% and it is expected to record a small profit this year, down from a loss of €77 million last year. For Etihad, Air Serbia covers the Balkans as well as the area east of Germany.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Maybe the alliance lacks the global outreach other three have but let's not forget that they have to start from somewhere. It is worth mentioning that they are open to non-equity airlines which could be interesting for carriers which wish to be 'saved' by Etihad.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:31 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 43):
The European Common Aviation Area does not prevent a government from injecting money into its national carrier, or any carrier for that matter.

well, but it exposes that carrier to an investigation, especially when the government that indirectly injects money in to Air Serbia is not even European but third country.

If Serbia wants to stay out of the EU, fine with me. But they shoot themselves into the knee. I could tell you a story my sister in law experienced yesterday at the Serbian border trying to bring relieve goods for a hospital. She finally turned back and now a Hungarian hospital received the goods and they appreciated it very much.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:43 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 44):

Yes and they did investigate the Air Serbia-Etihad deal last summer and nothing came out of it. The secret deal was also made public and there was nothing illegal in it. Even the funds Air Serbia received were in line with the regulation.

Well, I never said Serbia was perfect or that it doesn't require any changes because it does. However, the EU is not necessarily a solution as we could have seen from the experience of some other EU states which joined the Union in recent years. Brussels, Washington or Berlin can not help a country transition/transform unless the local political elite shows a genuine will to actually enforce these changes.
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2000 6:19 am

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:44 am

I don't understand why Air Berlin is in such bad shape. AB has good reputation in Germany and Europe and now on domestic flights the better service than Germanwings and all flights I have been on were fully packed and ticket prices are way more than Easyjet or Ryanair. Wonder why they can't make profit with staff cost lower than LH's

What was a bit shocking is that sometimes on flights between Berlin and Duesseldorf half of the plane is filled with crew members on positioning flights. One time I had opportunity talking to one captain and he told me that they get shuttled around a lot between their bases. This guy was totally tired after crossing the atlantic on duty and then to fly on stand by home to Munich.
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:11 am

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:25 pm

This looks like an Etihad annual dinner and dance party.

It reminds me of Qualiflyer ... where a bunch of losers hope to come together and create a winning combination.

KC Sim
 
stylo777
Posts: 2811
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:03 pm

EY hired Bruno Matheu, former Air France Chief Officer Longhaul, as the new CEO of Equity Partners.

Must be a whole different way of working for this gentleman without any unions and capital issues  
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: The Start Of A 4th Alliance - Etihad Partners?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:47 pm

Virgin Australia says it has no immediate plans to sign up to the new Etihad Airways Partners alliance, despite Etihad holding a 21% stake in the Aussie airline.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austr...s-to-join-etihad-partners-alliance

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