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AMALH747430
Topic Author
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:03 pm

I ran across the following article in the Airline Biz Blog on the Dallas Morning News website:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...wright-amendments-expiration.html/

When I moved to Amarillo six years ago we had 12 WN flights a day (8 to Dallas Love, 2 to Denver, 1 to Albuquerque and 1 to Las Vegas). Now we down to 5 (4 to Dallas Love and 1 to Las Vegas) which is less than half of what we had when I moved here. Additionally, 4/5 of our flights are into gate constrained Love Field. Is AMA in any danger of loosing WN service? The only WN market I can think of that receives less service is CRP with 4 flights a day to HOU. However, HOU is not gate constrained like DAL is. Thoughts?
 
mhkansan
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:09 pm

Wow, that's a lot of lost service. I would have thought WN would be a strong player at AMA. If DAL is gate constrained, WN maybe should try forcing that traffic over HOU, ABQ, and DEN. Its surprising to hear that AMA has lost that service.

WN also serves some other small markets in Texas that have recently had reduced service, like MAF, ELP, HRL, CRP... Its possible that these aircraft that previously did the XXX-AMA-DAL no longer have to do so now that the Wright restrictions are lifted - that probably reduces the amount of through traffic on WN.

Its also possible that the increased nationwide & international schedule and increased number of destinations and flights mean that WN would rather fly these planes on higher yielding routes and on longer stage lengths. WN is growing its fleet but maybe not enough to maintain the whole schedule.

We're here hoping WN does well enough at ICT, but lots of the business travelers are entrenched with AA, DL, and UA. WN has to chase the remaining VFR traffic.
 
bcoz
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:12 pm

When did they drop AMA-DEN? I had a friend who lived near LBB for many years, and he would often drive up from Lubbock to AMA to take the nonstop to visit family in Denver.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting AMALH747430 (Thread starter):
Is AMA in any danger of loosing WN service?

I believe reductions are coming for nearly all the cities that were used to springboard into DAL.
 
mhkansan
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting bcoz (Reply 2):
When did they drop AMA-DEN? I had a friend who lived near LBB for many years, and he would often drive up from Lubbock to AMA to take the nonstop to visit family in Denver.

Looks like its ending November 1.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3086
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:30 pm

Quoting bcoz (Reply 2):
When did they drop AMA-DEN? I had a friend who lived near LBB for many years, and he would often drive up from Lubbock to AMA to take the nonstop to visit family in Denver.
UA is already there with 2 daily 50-seaters, which can more effectively take a combination of local and connecting traffic at decent yields. AMA has evolved into becoming more of an effective RJ market, rather than one that supports frequent service on mainline equipment. AMA's population base is fairly small and WN has increased their equipment size over time (from the 122-seat 737-200 to the 143-seat 737-700).

I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually start 2x daily CRJ/CR7 on AMA-PHX since AA/US merger is well underway. It would certainly add to their network, while minimally impacting their existing service through DFW.

[Edited 2014-10-08 11:33:50]
.......
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:44 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 1):
If DAL is gate constrained, WN maybe should try forcing that traffic over HOU, ABQ, and DEN.

With the relaxation of the WA and the addition of DEN, I'm not seeing much future for WN at ABQ. It's right in the center of the golden triangle: DAL-PHX-DEN so no point in trying to maintain it as a focus city for transfers and not enough O&D traffic to warrant a large number of direct flights beyond the hub cities.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:54 pm

MAF, LBB, HRL and ELP are feeling your pain too...
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 1):
ELP
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):
ELP

ELP is a pretty decent connecting hub for WN. But now with the Wright Amendment being repelled, I think it will be reduced to O&D and token connection service.
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f18raider
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):

I believe LBB will be 6x DAL, 1xLAS and 1xAUS after the WA lifts. Not too big of a cut but still a cut nonetheless. We have two daily AA MD80s TO DFW in addition to Eagle service, and I do think AA could make a couple daily RJs to PHX work here.
 
AMALH747430
Topic Author
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:57 pm

Good point jmc1975. I usually fly UA out of AMA (unless I am going to the Dallas or Ft. Worth area, then I use AA) so I didn't realize WN's service had been cut so dramatically until I saw some newspaper articles on the subject. I have taken UA's DEN flights several times. UA serves AMA prety well with flights to DEN and IAH. One can get pretty much anywhere without too much backtracking. The connection with the LH DEN-FRA flight is a great way to get to/from Europe. I have also noticed that AA has upguaged all their DFW flights to CR7s in early November. I am always surprised by the number of people out here who think WN is the only option out here. I have heard "we won't be able to fly to Denver nonstop anymore" and "well, Southwest is pretty much all we have anymore." I usually just roll my eyes.
 
GSPSPOT
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:40 am

Wonder how much longer WN will be at GSP? GSP got WN mainly because neither ATL nor CLT had them at the time. Since then, both airports have WN service and WN has dropped several flights at GSP. WN dropped JAN completely as well, even though they were strong in that market. So sad to see...
Great Lakes, great life.
 
justlump
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:58 am

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:45 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):
MAF, LBB, HRL and ELP are feeling your pain too...

Actually, MAF is not necessarily hurting. Yes, in the last two years we did lose one flight to ABQ and one to AUS, however, we gained two additional HOU flights and a second one to LAS. DAL has remained untouched (at least through next summer). They even added an additional HOU turn just this Summer. The oilfield is still booming. I think MAF is safe...for now.
 
topbanana
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:12 pm

RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:21 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 8):
ELP is a pretty decent connecting hub for WN. But now with the Wright Amendment being repelled, I think it will be reduced to O&D and token connection service.

Looking at the schedule for El Paso tomorrow, Southwest currently operates 25 weekday departures to 7 destinations (Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Austin and Los Angeles.)

One month from now, it looks like El Paso drops to 20 departures to the same 7 destinations.
Top Banana in the West. Yes.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:16 am

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 11):
WN dropped JAN completely as well, even though they were strong in that market. So sad to see...

By the end, WN was down to just 5 flights at JAN, all to HOU, and had become a bit player at JAN. IIRC, DL had become number one several years prior to WN ending JAN service, and US surpassed WN as well prior to WN's discontinuation of JAN. Hardly "strong".

It should be remembered that JAN got WN because 1) Trent Lott was successful in adding Mississippi to the Wright perimeter and 2) Mike Boyd then used that new law, the Shelby Amendment, to lure WN in.
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TWA772LR
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RE: WN, AMA, And Other "small" Markets

Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:18 am

Quoting TopBanana (Reply 13):

My brother and grandmother flew SMF-BNA via LAX and ELP. Although this was in the 90s.

More recently a friend of mine flew DAL-SAN via ELP and this was in 2011 or 2012.

So ELP did have a history of being a small connection hub. But like we said, the Wright amendment repelling is changing that.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.

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