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GSP psgr
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Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:23 pm

Currently American flies to London/Heathrow, Paris, Frankfurt, and Madrid from DFW, with Madrid being the most recent add. If AA were to expand their European presence at DFW, what do you think would be the most likely add? I'll throw out a few possibilities and thoughts:

-One World Partner Hubs-

Dusseldorf and/or Berlin (Air Berlin): To me, one of these makes the most sense as a 767-300 route; it would provide much enhanced connectivity to Central and Eastern Europe beyond what is offered at LHR and MAD. Keep in mind that AA's FRA flight doesn't connect to European destinations so much.

Helsinki (Finnair): Less likely given that AA can't make ORD-HEL work year round.

Moscow/Domodedovo (S7 Airlines): A few years back, AA ran ORD-DME with a 777 and flopped miserably. That said, Dallas does have some oil and gas traffic that Chicago probably didn't, and Singapore makes IAH-DME work on a daily basis.

-Large European Cities-

There's only one I can think of that really fits year round....

Amsterdam: KL makes DFW-AMS work seasonally, and now that they have a station in AMS, I wonder if AA might make a go of it either seasonally or year round. Perhaps even some high yield oil and gas traffic (Royal Dutch Shell/Exxon Mobil)
 
jfk777
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:30 pm

DFW to Zurich would be kool. Years ao in the 20th century Swissair wanted to fly to DFW but Bob Crandall had a "heart attack" when he heard the DFW people were recruiting Swisssiar to DFW. His answer was AA was going to fly it, we are still waiting.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:38 pm

If CLT-MAN is toast, I do wish they'd bring back DFW-MAN.

It's depressing to see the number of passengers from Shell, BP and Astra Zeneca who ride the route via LHR.

Rgds
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Wingtips56
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 pm

I think DFW- Berlin (Brandenburg) would have happened if it had opened on time and Air Berlin had the chance to build their hub. That opportunity may now be lost.

Failing that, most likely new markets would be seasonal, with that list possibly including BCN, DUS, MAN, AMS, ZRH, DUB, MXP/FCO. The first two could go longer, if they develop any feed with IB and AB, respectively.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

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IrishAyes
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
Years ao in the 20th century Swissair wanted to fly to DFW but Bob Crandall had a "heart attack" when he heard the DFW people were recruiting Swisssiar to DFW. His answer was AA was going to fly it, we are still waiting.

I believe the first part of that statement, but the latter part is false. American did fly DFW-ZRH for the better part of a decade, running from 2000 to 2007. It was actually one of AA's highest-yielding routes for a period of time, and was up-gauged to a 777 from a 767 within a year (but after 9/11 remained a 767 until it was pulled). AA had a strong partnership with Swissair (which continued when Swiss became the surviving company after Swissair collapsed).

The AA connection to Zurich was actually marketed for awhile as a 1-stop operation to Delhi and Bombay from ZRH, as AA carried the LX code on the DFW-ZRH leg and LX carried the AA code on the ZRH-DEL/BOM legs.

After LX was acquired by LH Group, and dropped their codeshare agreement with American, the wells completely dried up almost overnight.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:03 pm

To the original question: unfortunately, the likelihood that AA will add any more European destinations from DFW is slim to none, and there are several reasons for this:

1. O&D: While DFW-Europe can certainly support large volumes of passengers based on O&D, few markets are top-heavy enough to justify them outside of London, Paris and Frankfurt. Madrid is aided by hub-to-hub connections, and AMS, as has been stated already, is served less-than-daily on a seasonal basis. Other markets like FCO, BCN, etc. are highly-seasonal and are too low-yielding to justify.

2. Coverage: at present, DFW-LHR is served 5x daily during peak seasons, FRA is 2x daily (on LH and AA), CDG and MAD run 1 daily apiece, and AMS is 5 weekly in the summer. Right there alone you have a handful of viable options to connect 1-stop to virtually any market in Europe, and this doesn't include a list of midwest/northeast US hubs that can viably serve secondary and tertiary European cities due to range and viable aircraft. By all means, DFW-Europe is not underserved, even if it may seem that way because it is so LON/FRA/PAR-centric.

3. The growth of the ME3: the presence of three gulf carriers at DFW, come December, with one of them flying an A380, has basically nullified any hope of another European market seeing new nonstop service to DFW. Much of the current DFW-Europe flights carry connecting traffic to India, Africa, the Middle East and beyond, and the growth of EK plus the additions of QR and EY all take away from DFW-Europe, specifically top-heavy traffic (as DFW-India is more premium heavy than DFW-Europe, which LAXDude1023 and Commavia will validate).

4. The AA-US merger: the addition of PHL as a hub to the AA route map further invalidates need for more DFW routes. There are over 20 daily flights from Philadelphia to a slew of European markets during the peak season, and Philly is actually a sizeable O&D market that supports a pretty massive domestic hub along with a transatlantic gateway. AA has indicated that PHL will serve as its primary TATL hub while JFK, ORD, DFW, MIA and CLT will handle primarily O&D markets and overflow from the primary European cities.
 
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American 767
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:05 pm

Certainly not BRU, because DFW-BRU has failed twice already.

First attempt: AA flew nonstop DFW-BRU for a few months back in 1993, the route didn't work out well.

Second attempt: When AA and SN (the old Sabena) were code sharing on TATL flights back in 2000, Sabena had a nonstop flight DFW-BRU but that didn't last long either. The route was axed even before the day Sabena collapsed.

And another reason why I think American won't fly DFW-BRU: they no longer fly to BRU, not even from ORD, not even from JFK. I'm not talking about US, I'm talking about PMAA. Even if they were still flying to BRU, a nonstop BRU-DFW wouldn't work well. It would be a third failure.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 3):
BCN, DUS, MAN, AMS, ZRH, DUB, MXP/FCO.

I thought of those markets...maybe. Yes I see MAN and DUB as "potential candidates" for new markets served nonstop from DFW, either with 763 or 788 equipment, I would say the latter for the future when the 763s are retired.

Ben Soriano

[Edited 2014-10-09 15:14:07]
Ben Soriano
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:22 pm

I would say AA could try MXP for a series of reasons, although I'm not sure would work long term or year round.

This eclipse of reasons include:
-IG rumored to join OW soon
-IG already an oiled wheel in the OW machine, so things like schedule synchronization and code sharing would take no time to implement
-IG launching a suspicious chunk of domestic routes from MXP effective this month, which makes MXP a small hub (IG is not a big airline) or anyway definitely a focus city
-increased traffic to MXP due to world expo 2015: now this won't attract millions of people on the route, but it will definitely cater to important premium travelers like corporation executives and government officials (the latter must fly american as mandated by U.S. law) that could fill the front of the plane just fine
-MXP is notorious for offering very attractive incentives to airlines starting intercontinental routes
-MXP has been an AA destination for a long time with virtually no connections to anywhere beyond MXP, surviving lots of cuts and changes and despite the fact OW does not win any popularity contests in Italy, so I suspect it is a profitable destination
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 5):
1. O&D: While DFW-Europe can certainly support large volumes of passengers based on O&D, few markets are top-heavy enough to justify them outside of London, Paris and Frankfurt. Madrid is aided by hub-to-hub connections, and AMS, as has been stated already, is served less-than-daily on a seasonal basis. Other markets like FCO, BCN, etc. are highly-seasonal and are too low-yielding to justify.

Believe it or not, DFW-MAD is actually somewhat sizable. Its the 4th largest market with the the 5th and 6th FCO and DUB being far behind.

I tend to agree though, its hard to imagine that DFW will receive another flight to Europe in the short term. I wouldnt rule out a flight on AB or AA to Berlin to run seasonal when the new airport rolls out, but I dont see what adding DFW-DUB/FCO really does for AA. The markets is low yield and highly seasonal. DFW-LHR/FRA/CDG are large markets that arent as prone to seasonal flux. DFW-MAD is more seasonal but has a decent size business component too.
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DeltaXNA
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:07 am

DFW-IST, DFW-MAN, DFW-FCO, DFW-MXP, DFW-TLV, DFW-DUB, DFW-ZRH, DFW-MUC

Can the 787 make any of these profitable? I can really see DFW-MXP doing well. DFW could use flights to Italy.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 9):
I can really see DFW-MXP doing well.

That's probably never going to happen. Milan struggles supporting trans-Atlantic service - it only has Miami, New York and Toronto, as well as seasonal to Atlanta.

If American expand to Dallas-Italy, it would absolutely, without any doubt, be Rome.
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RWA380
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:34 am

Quoting GSP psgr (Thread starter):
Amsterdam: KL makes DFW-AMS work seasonally, and now that they have a station in AMS, I wonder if AA might make a go of it either seasonally or year round. Perhaps even some high yield oil and gas traffic (Royal Dutch Shell/Exxon Mobil)

I've already been rather surprised that AA never flew to AMS, I had been booked on an AA ORD-AMS flight back in the late 90s, but the route was withdrawn before service started & we were re-routed via BRU & then the Thalys.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 2):
It's depressing to see the number of passengers from Shell, BP and Astra Zeneca who ride the route via LHR.

Astra Zenica may have a pill for that depressing feeling you are experiencing.  
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Atlwarrior
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:34 am

I believe DFW-TLV, although not Europe could work.
 
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:42 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 9):
I can really see DFW-MXP doing well. DFW could use flights to Italy

Although I am not sure if it will happen, I agree.

Milan or even Venice could work at least during the summer months...

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seahawk
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:49 am

ATL-DUS does not do too good, so a second flight to DUS in no option.

I could see MAN as an option or BCN, maybe MXP as a wildcard.
 
jfk777
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting irishayes (Reply 4):
I believe the first part of that statement, but the latter part is false. American did fly DFW-ZRH for the better part of a decade, running from 2000 to 2007. It was actually one of AA's highest-yielding routes for a period of time, and was up-gauged to a 777 from a 767 within a year (but after 9/11 remained a 767 until it was pulled). AA had a strong partnership with Swissair (which continued when Swiss became the surviving company after Swissair collapsed).

The AA connection to Zurich was actually marketed for awhile as a 1-stop operation to Delhi and Bombay from ZRH, as AA carried the LX code on the DFW-ZRH leg and LX carried the AA code on the ZRH-DEL/BOM legs.

After LX was acquired by LH Group, and dropped their codeshare agreement with American, the wells completely dried up almost overnight.

Forgot about AA's DFW to Zurich. But Swissair should have been in Oneworld, if British Airways had not been so greedy to get some Swissair LHR slots they probably would have.
 
Freshside3
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:56 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 9):
Can the 787 make any of these profitable? I can really see DFW-MXP doing well. DFW could use flights to Italy.

Actually, it would work, if they promoted at SFO. There is a big market for Italy in San Francisco, but presumably not quite enough to warrant to have a nonstop on a regular basis. Perhaps a "thru" flight or a "change-of-gauge" SFO-DFW-MXP would be the best way to do this. Best of both worlds.
 
us330
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:24 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 6):
Certainly not BRU, because DFW-BRU has failed twice already.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 6):
Second attempt: When AA and SN (the old Sabena) were code sharing on TATL flights back in 2000, Sabena had a nonstop flight DFW-BRU but that didn't last long either. The route was axed even before the day Sabena collapsed.

IIRC, Sabena's collapse also lead Air France to pull the CDG-DFW so the aircraft could be deployed to increase service to Africa to make up for the void left by Sabena's absence.
 
usairways85
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:41 pm

I think AA's next move will be to rationalize the TA network from MIA/CLT/PHL/JFK/ORD, with all of these TA gateways east of the Mississippi I'm not sure how much more you'll see from DFW near term.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:34 pm

Quoting freshside3 (Reply 16):
Actually, it would work, if they promoted at SFO. There is a big market for Italy in San Francisco, but presumably not quite enough to warrant to have a nonstop on a regular basis. Perhaps a "thru" flight or a "change-of-gauge" SFO-DFW-MXP would be the best way to do this. Best of both worlds.

SFO is a big market to Rome, not Milan.
a.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 14):
ATL-DUS does not do too good

Are the yields good for this route?
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dolphinflyer
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:21 pm

I would vote for DFW-MUC. I know MUC is a Star/LH hub, but AA should be able to make DFW/JFK/MIA-MUC work. But they would need the critical mass of at least 2 if not 3 of those routes to be successful, not just DFW-MUC on its own.
 
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 14):
ATL-DUS does not do too good, so a second flight to DUS in no option.

DL has been serving DUS since 2005 (?) and as all DL experts will confirm DL doesn't hang on to unprofitable routes verylong. I've done the route 3 times once all econ, once biz and recently premium econ and all cabins were always well booked. I know a full airplane doesn't mean profit but it really seems DL has built up a nice little operation at DUS and if any route fromDUS were to be axed it would be AA's to ORD. If I'm not mistaken AA's 767s don't have IFE in econ whereas DL does.

Also, when NW was still around they flew DTW-DUS using 757-300s. The route didn't last that long and the fact DL doesn't seem to be planning to re-start it should also be seen as a sign the ATL route is holding its own.
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4engines4lnghll
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:42 pm

I've heard rumors that FRA will be cut... I hope this isnt true..
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting 4engines4lnghll (Reply 23):
I've heard rumors that FRA will be cut... I hope this isnt true..

The single strongest non-LHR preforming route in pre merger AA's route network? I doubt it.

Its the only non-LHR flight in Europe that supports a 777.
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DeltaXNA
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:31 pm

Quoting 4engines4lnghll (Reply 23):

I've heard rumors that FRA will be cut... I hope this isnt true..

I doubt AA would cut this route, since it is there only route to germany other than ORD-DUS. AA will not cut it before LH does.
 
DLBOIFIN
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:05 pm

Would DFW-HEL work better than ORD-HEL? There is more connectivity at DFW than ORD, but I have no idea how the local O/D looks like.
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:04 am

DFW is s poor location for EU flights, and given the merger with US, DFW is a minor player to the EU compared to PHL, JFK, and to a lesser extent ORD, MIA, and CLT. DFW is perfectly served to the EU, and to think DFW to TLV, MXP, and others will happen before ORD and MIA is ridiculous. And for those that think AA is dropping DFW-FRA are midled. DFW international expansion outside of north America is limited.
 
oc2dc
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:21 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):
Its the only non-LHR flight in Europe that supports a 777.

.... Don't forget about DFW-MAD and the seasonal DFW-CDG... both are on 777s.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 28):

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):
Its the only non-LHR flight in Europe that supports a 777.

.... Don't forget about DFW-MAD and the seasonal DFW-CDG... both are on 777s.

And MIA-MAD effective 18 December.
a.
 
factsonly
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:10 am

AA's September 2014 TATL performance does not really call for further Atlantic expansion:

Revenue Passenger Miles (000):
- Atlantic (2014) 2,813,218 vs (2013) 3,033,102 = -7.2%

Available Seat Miles (000):
- Atlantic(2014) 3,533,982 vs (2013) 3,462,500 = +2.1%

Load Factor (%):
- Atlantic (2014) 79.6% versus (2013) 87.6% = -8.0 pts
 
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seahawk
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:11 am

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 22):
DL has been serving DUS since 2005 (?) and as all DL experts will confirm DL doesn't hang on to unprofitable routes verylong. I've done the route 3 times once all econ, once biz and recently premium econ and all cabins were always well booked. I know a full airplane doesn't mean profit but it really seems DL has built up a nice little operation at DUS and if any route fromDUS were to be axed it would be AA's to ORD. If I'm not mistaken AA's 767s don't have IFE in econ whereas DL does.

Also, when NW was still around they flew DTW-DUS using 757-300s. The route didn't last that long and the fact DL doesn't seem to be planning to re-start it should also be seen as a sign the ATL route is holding its own.

Yes, AA will drop the route for winter flight schedule 14/15. But DL has also not up-graded from 5/7 to 7/7, instead they will reduce to 4/7 from January to March.
 
finnishway
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:09 am

Quoting DLBOIFIN (Reply 26):
Would DFW-HEL work better than ORD-HEL? There is more connectivity at DFW than ORD, but I have no idea how the local O/D looks like.

I don't think passenger numbers for ORD-HEL are the problem. If it wouldn't be profitable route or AA wouldn't see it as a possible year around route, they wouldn't have operated that route for this long.

I think this has been discussed before and lack of planes for year around ORD-HEL route has been a problem for AA.

In 2011 ORD-HEL had about 70k passengers during summer season, according to Finavia. For example HEL-JFK route had 170k in 2011 and that is a year around route.

AA is coming back again in 2015. The problem for year around route must be somewhere else than in the passenger numbers or profits.

Also Finnair has talked about possible new destinations in North America. These include Chicago, Dallas, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and Phoenix.
 
AAplat4life
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:14 pm

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 27):
DFW is s poor location for EU flights,

This is probably true, but it doesn't really matter because of the amount of passengers that go through DFW every day.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:39 pm

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 33):
This is probably true, but it doesn't really matter because of the amount of passengers that go through DFW every day.

Sure it matters. DFW competes for traffic with competitor-carrier hubs. It competes with other AA hubs. Flying hundreds of miles out of the way adds to passenger time and carrier cost. (Example: hit up Great Circle Mapper on DEN-DFW-DUS vs. DEN-ORD-DUS.)

The OP's question is ill-timed. It's likely a rationalization of TATL services between ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT/MIA/DFW comes before DFW expansion. The final answer may be 'none of the above' for new TATL cities from DFW in the relevant time frame.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:54 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 34):
The OP's question is ill-timed. It's likely a rationalization of TATL services between ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT/MIA/DFW comes before DFW expansion. The final answer may be 'none of the above' for new TATL cities from DFW in the relevant time frame.

While I agree that we probably won't see any new EU cities from DFW, I would argue that DFW's EU network is extremely stable. LHR, FRA, and CDG are all large local markets and MAD is a good hub to hub route. I don't think AA will be getting rid of any of them.

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 28):
.... Don't forget about DFW-MAD and the seasonal DFW-CDG... both are on 777s.
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
And MIA-MAD effective 18 December.

I meant consistently on a year round basis. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
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Freshside3
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:11 pm

What about DFW-PRG?? That would be an interesting "left field"/"wild card" choice....especially since there is a lack of PRG service from the USA. Any thoughts??
 
MAH4546
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:16 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 32):
I think this has been discussed before and lack of planes for year around ORD-HEL route has been a problem for AA.

No, it is not. AA is not lacking any planes. It can fly Chicago-Helsinki year-round with ease. It chooses not to because, quite frankly, the route doesn't really do that well.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 32):
Also Finnair has talked about possible new destinations in North America. These include Chicago, Dallas, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and Phoenix.

The current JFK/MIA/ORD trio does the job very well. The Finland-U.S. market is very small, and about two-thirds of it is just going to New York and Miami.

Quoting freshside3 (Reply 36):
What about DFW-PRG?? That would be an interesting "left field"/"wild card" choice....especially since there is a lack of PRG service from the USA. Any thoughts??

Never going to happen.
a.
 
GSP psgr
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
While I agree that we probably won't see any new EU cities from DFW, I would argue that DFW's EU network is extremely stable. LHR, FRA, and CDG are all large local markets and MAD is a good hub to hub route. I don't think AA will be getting rid of any of them.

Agreed; what DFW has now probably isn't going anywhere, as each of them is either hub-hub or so large that they can fill the plane with largely local traffic. I'll throw the following three thoughts out there:

1) To me, it feels like DFW lags behind the two other Southern megahubs; it lags IAH by a step and ATL by a lot more than that in the TATL department.

2) AA's old management team seemed to be much more averse to seasonal markets than US, and I'm wondering if the next step for DFW might be something done seasonally at first, something like Rome, Dublin, Amsterdam, or Munich.

3) OneWorld has always been more dependent on a single megahub (LHR) than the other two alliances, and I'm sure this stunts growth a bit in the TATL department.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:44 am

Considering AA is the largest out there how about AMS in the same capacity DL went To LHR? Show some strength AA
 
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seahawk
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:20 am

MIA would be imho a better starting point for new connections to Europe.
 
S75752
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:27 am

Any DFW TATL service risks redundantly overflying near or between ORD and JFK. South America is a better shot, but much of what AA would consider serving in South America, they already do serve from DFW,
I think Asia will be where DFW has a chance to shine a bit given lack of overflight, though not brightly due to distance. But a shine, nonetheless, that may be brought forth by the 787's when they come.

Quoting freshside3 (Reply 16):
Actually, it would work, if they promoted at SFO. There is a big market for Italy in San Francisco, but presumably not quite enough to warrant to have a nonstop on a regular basis. Perhaps a "thru" flight or a "change-of-gauge" SFO-DFW-MXP would be the best way to do this. Best of both worlds.

Bad connection location to Europe, and once again redundant over ORD. Not many from SFO would sensibly take that, especially given that they'd be trying to dig in to a UA stronghold and their partners.
There'd be a better chance of just an SFO-MXP/FCO nonstop from someone else.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:55 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 41):
Any DFW TATL service risks redundantly overflying near or between ORD and JFK.

This is true. Which is where the local market comes into play. It has to be sizable enough where a good portion of the plane is filled with O&D. Thats why I believe:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
While I agree that we probably won't see any new EU cities from DFW, I would argue that DFW's EU network is extremely stable. LHR, FRA, and CDG are all large local markets and MAD is a good hub to hub route. I don't think AA will be getting rid of any of them.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
S75752
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:25 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):
This is true. Which is where the local market comes into play. It has to be sizable enough where a good portion of the plane is filled with O&D. Thats why I believe:

I always find it hard to believe that Both-end O&D will fill more than maybe 50% of a flight, even with strong business presence like Oil. (With ATL being the most extreme example, I would be surprised if O&D on its long hauls is even in the double digits, with how DL works). If they're going to do routes that terminate at one end, it'd need to be strong ones... CDG and FRA are the typically good examples.

TATL is where DFW is in a bad position for; It's out of the way from the west coast, it's out of the way from the whole east coast, leaving maybe some southern states clustered around it, and anything's just going to overfly JFK or ORD so why not fill those planes from those hubs. It's in a slightly better position for asia in that it doesn't overfly the West coast nor ORD, though other states may just connect through ORD or West coast. South America it's in a great position for.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 43):
I always find it hard to believe that Both-end O&D will fill more than maybe 50% of a flight, even with strong business presence like Oil. (With ATL being the most extreme example, I would be surprised if O&D on its long hauls is even in the double digits, with how DL works). If they're going to do routes that terminate at one end, it'd need to be strong ones... CDG and FRA are the typically good examples.

Im not sure if you know this, but filling the plane with 50% O&D is actually amazing for a large hub.

Heres the deal, DFW-CDG/FRA are large enough markets where they will be served in some form or fashion. Those markets will not go without flights. DFW-MAD is also not a small market and has hubs on both ends. That said, if AA and IB were not such close partners the flight wouldnt exist. Its a 50-60 PDEW market, but thats not going to support it with no hub on either end.

As far as any potential new routes to the EU from DFW, I dont see the need for any. I wouldnt rule out a seasonal flight from AB, but even thats a long shot.

But all of this said, even if AA totally dehubbed today, DFW would have flights to LHR, CDG, and FRA. Thats a certainty.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:11 pm

Rumour has it that Dallas is a canditate for the two new Transatlantic routes which Aer Lingus will open in 2015. Other possibilities mentioned are MIA, YHZ, BWI and PHL.

An annoucement was due at the end of September, but we're still waiting.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting GSP psgr (Thread starter):
American flies to London/Heathrow, Paris, Frankfurt, and Madrid from DFW,

AA DFW-FRA has been active for years.
If I remember correctly, AA MIA-FRA was dropped around 1997, but the performance on AA DFW-FRA has never been questioned.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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Miami
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:03 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 45):
Rumour has it that Dallas is a canditate for the two new Transatlantic routes which Aer Lingus will open in 2015. Other possibilities mentioned are MIA, YHZ, BWI and PHL.

There is rumors for DFW, IAH, and MIA.

There is talks about a new Florida city being added next year as well as a Texas city. Which I believe it's going to be Dallas.
Aer Lingus Plans DFW (by Miami Aug 1 2014 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2014-10-12 19:04:27]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
DariusBieber
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:30 am

I could definitely see DFW-DUS, especially with Air Berlin's presence at DUS. ORD-DUS is doing well, and Delta's ATL-DUS has been going strong since 2005.
Aerospace Engineering student
 
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seahawk
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RE: Next AA European Destination From DFW?

Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:16 am

ORD-DUS is not doing good. It has become a summer only route.

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