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wjcandee
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:19 pm

Quoting evomutant (Reply 19):
The fetishisistic adoration of everything military they have though, as exemplified by the fact this is even a story, will always be a mystery to me.

It isn't what you think it is. It's a cultural norm, particularly after 9/11, to recognize that the use of force is an unfortunate necessity in a dangerous world, and that the people who volunteer to do so, and the families that support them, should never again be subjected, on an individual level, to the deplorable desecration that they experienced when soldiers returned from Vietnam.

The media and Hollywood were among the worst offenders in the 60s and 70s, and their norms are now to treat the military folks better than they would treat themselves.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:21 pm

Quoting iad2cdg (Reply 35):
Fewer American flag lapel pins on TV hosts and politicians, more resources for post-deployment counseling,

These are not, and don't have to be, mutually-exclusive.

As to the VA, it's not a funding issue. It's a management issue.
 
OEH68
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:23 pm

Quoting Thaiflyer (Reply 4):
It is always good that we treat the soldiers with respect but at the same time nobody is above the law or company regulations.
It would be nice if the FA had hang up his uniform but it should not be taken granted.

Exactly!
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SocalApproach
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 50):
Nobody forces anyone to become a soldier. It's a choice.

But at the same time I think we all should consider if some people didn't "choose" then it would most likely be force. This is just one of those topics where there is no way to put it without sounding like an unappreciative american @$$ so maybe it is just best to not to say anything at all? because with comments like this...

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 21):
Why do they need special perks anywhere else? That is not to say that I don't appreciate the work the military does but I also appreciate my dentist, postal carrier, and barber but they don't seem to need special perks seemingly everywhere...

I do not think the post man or your barber is risking their life for you. They do important jobs and I love my barber just as much as the next guy but obviously "life" should not be taken for granted and for someone to sign on the dotted line and say they will risk theirs for mine, The least I can do is give them a "special perk" and upgrade them to First Class or give them a 10% discount at the movies....

Having said all that it is now against Army Regulation AR-670-1 to travel in uniform unless traveling to or from combat. I do not think he is doing either in his dress blues. Although It might be appropriate to wear it if you are traveling to/from a ceremony and travel can be completed same day. But all this is a discussion for another day and forum.

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/03/20...-wear-uniform-appearance-guidance/
 
777STL
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:44 am

I just noticed there was a very sincerely worded public apology from some high up at AA on Facespace over this incident.
PHX based
 
neutronstar73
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:57 am

US Airways absolutely sucks in this department. I was flying from my home in LAS to DC on US Airways (on official orders, mind you, since I was reporting to my new command) and I was checking my bags. Showed the counter agent my military issued ticket with government travel code for military travel, along with my travel orders that specifically said "NO CHARGES FOR BAGGAGE". Lady processes the information, and then just sits there waiting, looking at me. I ask "Am I missing something?" She says "Uh, yeah! Your payment for your bags." I told her "ummm, I'm travelling on military orders, and I'm not supposed to be charged for bags (which I only had 2 BTW, not like 10 or some weird stuff).

She gets IRATE and yells "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! You have to pay or you aren't flying with your bags! Credit card or cash." I said "Umm....all respect, but you need to read that code on that ticket and notice it says "No bag charges. Official Military travel."" She replies "I know my job and no! You will pay for your bags, or you will not fly!" I told her "OK...done with you. Get the supervisor!" He walks over and says "Sir, what's your problem?" Like I'm the one with the problem?!? Are you serious?" "Yeah, your counter agent refuses to honor what the USG has already paid for, which is my bags, and she's demanding I pay for my 2 bags. Which I am not because I'm not supposed to."

Guess what he says? "Sir, we have a policy that military members pay for their baggage on official travel. You can file a claim at a later date." Oh hell no. Metro police police hears what's going on, and bring some FAA official over. I explain the situation, and they basically chastise US Airways, saying they've never heard of "pay for it and file a claim later." Southwest Airlines (who at that time didn't have a military contract) was next door to what was going on and they even intervened to tell USeless Airways that the bags fly without me paying. I basically told US Airways people "you know what. F**k off.. I'll fly Southwest and pay for my own ticket. And report "you" and "you" to proper people about your BS cash shakedown." FAA dude says he'll report it.

Long story short. US Airways sucks. I wasn't asking for any special treatment, but I'll be damned if I pay for something that the taxpayer already paid for, and US Airways was trying to double their bag fees.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:15 am

Quoting 777stl (Reply 48):
They didn't choose to go over there.

If they joined up after 9/11 they would have had a pretty good idea of where they would end up at some point.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 57):
Showed the counter agent my military issued ticket with government travel code for military travel, along with my travel orders that specifically said "NO CHARGES FOR BAGGAGE".


Those are your travel orders not what was written on the ticket, why should US Airways care what your travel orders state? She has a job to do and part of that is to make you pay for luggage.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 57):
I wasn't asking for any special treatment

You kinda were, as an extension of the US military. If the ticket specifically stated luggage was at no additional charge I could see your point, but it didn't your travel orders did, but travel orders aren't a ticket.
 
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N62NA
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting aluminumtubing (Reply 20):
We do not have fetishisistic adoration for everything military. What we do have (or should have) is respect for those who risk their lives to protect our freedoms, values, rights and way of life.

Thank you for posting this. It sums up perfectly how I feel.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:34 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 58):

Those are your travel orders not what was written on the ticket,

Why be so contrary? Amazing.

Especially when you're wrong.

Read the post again where he says that the TICKET says "Official Military Travel. No charge for baggage."

Also, I try not to cast aspersions when I'm dealing in an area where I don't know anything:

You said, " why should US Airways care what your travel orders state?" To answer that, I will quote you, for example, the United baggage policy, which expressly distinguishes between orders and not-orders; I am quoting only the part regarding orders:

"U.S. military personnel on orders and U.S. military personnel and their dependents on orders for relocation qualify for the following baggage allowance when they travel on a United- or United Express-operated flight and check in with United:

Four bags up to 70 pounds each in United Economy® and five bags up to 70 pounds each in United Business®, United BusinessFirst®, United First® and United Global FirstSM with a maximum dimension of 115 linear inches without excess, overweight or oversize charges being assessed."

USAirways: "Active U.S. military personnel with ID and dependents traveling with them on orders get the 1st through 5th bags up to 100 lbs/45 kg each free of charge. Active U.S. military personnel on personal travel are exempt from 1st and 2nd checked bag fees (overweight/oversize fees may still apply)."

It's different when you are on orders and when you are not. That's why he showed the orders. I don't expect that you will apologize to him, but maybe you can learn something.

[Edited 2014-10-11 18:39:43]

[Edited 2014-10-11 18:44:55]
 
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Revelation
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 40):
particularly because it is not indicative of the core values of our airline.

No, making Y so miserable so that people need to upgrade to get decent services and comfort IS indicative of your core values, along with almost every other airline these days, so just own it. It was AA's documented policies that led to this issue. If they want military dress uniforms to be put into the first class closet, come out and say it, instead of piling on more horse droppings by trotting out some ex-military captain to wave the flag to try to make up for this lack of management leadership.
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ordell
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:44 am

To all the folks commenting on how we "fetishize" the military, that was one of the Bush administration success stories. They didn't want military people treated the way they were in the Vietnam War era (where people literally spat on them in public), so they launched the "thank you for your service" initiative that worked out better than the war itself, it would seem. That's my view, anyway.

As to this case, I've seen a few people interviewed who were on the plane and they described the FA's attitude. From their descriptions of her behavior, she was extremely hostile toward the sergeant and I have the sneaking suspicion she is not of the "thank you for your service crowd," but is one of those anti-war/anti-military leftists and it didn't matter if the entire coat rack was empty. Everything I've read and seen on cable TV tells me this FA held the sergeant in total contempt.
 
crAAzy
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Sad that the entire country flips its lid when an airline mistakenly charges a soldier for a bag or doesn't hang up their coat. But mental health? Vet health? Suicides? Sexual assault? No one cares. It's the ultimate in stupid bumper sticker activism.

Says it all right there buddy!!!

- your friendly VA MD
 
Kiwirob
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 60):

Read the post again where he says that the TICKET says "Official Military Travel. No charge for baggage."

READ IT AGAIN. It's two documents, one being the ticket and the other being the travel orders.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 57):
Showed the counter agent my military issued ticket with government travel code for military travel, along with my travel orders that specifically said "NO CHARGES FOR BAGGAGE".
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 60):
That's why he showed the orders. I don't expect that you will apologize to him, but maybe you can learn something.

Why should I apologise to him, I think he was being arrogant and entitled.

[Edited 2014-10-11 19:08:37]
 
prebennorholm
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:43 am

This must be a special American cultural thing.

Military servicemen deserve all due respect from everybody. So do firefighters, doctors, police officers, and what about the hard working businessmen who create jobs so people can pay tax to pay for military and those other public services?

Am I the only one who find it odd that airlines shall single out military servicemen, and give them services for free? Such as first class closet access or extra baggage - that means paid by the non military pax.

When I was in the military, then I certainly wouldn't expect any civilian service which the military didn't pay for. And I sure would't get any such thing, neither from an airline company, nor in a barber shop. I expected the military - and ultimately the taxpayers - to pay the professional services I needed in full.

If American culture in this respect is different, then so be it. I just find it odd. It makes things more complicated, and where shall they draw the line of special services?
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wjcandee
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:01 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 64):
READ IT AGAIN. It's two documents, one being the ticket and the other being the travel orders.

And the ticket is coded, "Official Military Travel. No Charge For Bags."

And the policy I quoted you says the same thing. So she was wrong.

All he was asking for was that the airline honor the conditions of the fare on which he was flying, just as if he worked for GM and they had a contract with negotiated fares that included bags, as many Fortune 500 companies do.

That means he is acting "entitled"? Uh. Okay. I have a different definition.

Seems to me like he is just trying to save his employer from paying twice for something.
 
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mayor
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 33):

Sorry, but a soldier on private business is just a regular passenger. If he was at work he wouldn't fly commercial right? And why would he wear a uniform when not working?

He may be going on leave, going back on duty from leave or going to a new duty station.

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 32):
Btw, what happen to the principle of order and obedience. On the aircraft the FA is the higher ranked person (also wearing a uniform) and in charge, surely a bright Army Ranger understands that.

One wonders how you think this even applies.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 28):
Quoting mayor (Reply 24):
So, your solution, obviously, is to kill them before they can become a problem? That's a SOLUTION?

And then we wonder why we can't have reasoned conversations.

No matter what you think, my reply was the next obvious reasoning to the statement I was replying to.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 50):

Quoting 777stl (Reply 48):
9/11 didn't affect our way of life?

It didn't affect mine... just saying

Really? All the security that you go thru, now, isn't a result of 9/11? I beg to differ.



I think all this support for our military is a direct result of the way the troops were treated when coming home from Vietnam AND, it seems, after reading many of the posts on here that don't seem to seem to support the G.I.s in any manner, we may be going back to that Vietnam era mindset.
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zanl188
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:56 am

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 65):

I'd sure like to see a copy of your orders stating bags fly free. I've been associated with the military for some time and I've never seen orders so state.

[Edited 2014-10-11 20:57:35]
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Schweigend
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:06 am

Even if the FC closet was full, the FA still should have taken the man's jacket and said, "Don't worry, I'll figure something out."

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 26):
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 9):

DoD reimburses the service member for excess bag charges. Service member just needs to claim on travel voucher, along with the rest of his/her travel expenses. Never understood why this was a big deal....

From a guy in uniform, I wholeheartedly agree.

Now, to my Army brethren...why do many of you travel in uniform? On the USAF side, we've been told not to travel in uniform unless absolutely necessary (or you're just getting out of Lackland...and don't get me started on those guys getting comp'd first class upgrades).

I served in the USAF (over twenty years ago) and agree with what you both say. Bag charges will be reimbursed, but the member must apply for that, a slight hassle. That means the DoD/taxpayers cover it, instead of the airline losing bag charges. However, never at UA nor CO have I seen Military charged for bags.

Strangely apropos -- this afternoon at work, I noticed a one-stripe Airman in the baggage claim, standing around looking lost. He wore full BDUs and carried two giant duffels with boots hanging off. I approached and asked "Can I help you?" -- he was looking for Ticketing and was transferring to a new duty station. I gave him directions to the UA counter. I remember when I was going from Lackland to tech-school at SJT, and later from there to FRA, I always wore dress blues.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 28):
Instead we show our appreciation through well-meaning gestures that don't cost us much time, effort or treasury, such as wrapping a yellow ribbon around a tree or giving up a seat in first class, because we think that's what expected of us, and it should absolve us from having to do the harder but more meaningful gestures. It's nice and expedient, but not fetishistic, just politically correct.

     

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 29):
Let me ask ..., does American carriers also honor foreign soldiers who happen to fly on US carriers ? Soldiers who have fought side by side with your countrymen ? I don't expect that they would do such a thing, but considering the respect americans have for thier soldiers I just wanted to ask. Soldiers seem to get far more respect in the US than for instance Norway.

I should think so. They should at least be eligible for pre-boarding if in uniform -- the gate announcement does not specify only "US" military, after all. At IAH, I have seen German, British, and Dutch military in full dress uniform traveling, but I don't know if they avail themselves of pre-boarding...probably not.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 52):
It's a cultural norm, particularly after 9/11, to recognize that the use of force is an unfortunate necessity in a dangerous world, and that the people who volunteer to do so, and the families that support them, should never again be subjected, on an individual level, to the deplorable desecration that they experienced when soldiers returned from Vietnam.

The media and Hollywood were among the worst offenders in the 60s and 70s, and their norms are now to treat the military folks better than they would treat themselves.

Very true, and notice too how after 9/11 police and firemen are regarded as more heroic.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 58):
If they joined up after 9/11 they would have had a pretty good idea of where they would end up at some point.

True, and they joined with that knowledge, even if the perks and benefits of military service might have been a lure.

In my book, active military do deserve special consideration.
 
aajfksjubklyn
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:42 am

This is sad PR considering how AA really takes care of uniform military personnel.
 
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ssteve
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:46 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 66):
When I was in the military, then I certainly wouldn't expect any civilian service which the military didn't pay for. And I sure would't get any such thing, neither from an airline company, nor in a barber shop. I expected the military - and ultimately the taxpayers - to pay the professional services I needed in full.

If American culture in this respect is different, then so be it. I just find it odd. It makes things more complicated, and where shall they draw the line of special services?

Key difference these days versus many countries is that there's no mandatory service.

As a male who's almost through his conscriptable years without having served, there's a "there but for the grace of God go I" aspect to treating those in uniform with respect. Even those politically opposed to everything the military is being tasked with doing generally try to treat those who have volunteered to serve with respect. (These days.)

I tend to imagine that in countries with mandatory service, it's not that soldiers are disrespected, but that they're taken somewhat more for granted.

In the US, we have somehow, amazingly, fought a few wars now without the draft. If walking on tenterhooks about exactly what level of respect is due is the sacrifice paid for *not* having a draft, most Americans are happy to take the bargain.

Hopefully my very cynical way of explaining it will somewhat placate those elsewhere that are eager to ascribe it to jingoism. I tend to view it as a side effect of allowing 18-year old guys the freedom to make their own choices, and doing everything we can to thank those who choose to serve. That passenger in first class may be giving up a seat, but there's a great chance they didn't give up a few years of service... because they didn't have to.
 
manny
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:52 am

I wonder where the FA's are always great crowd is on this one. It's just another example of the callous attitude to customer service that's shown by FA's in US based airlines.
 
Escapehere
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:58 am

Mmm, the US certainly does have a very "unique" culture when it comes to this stuff.

I'm Australian (now live in Canada), and people are generally respectful to military personnel, particularly those that fought and died in the first and second world wars where the country was under serious threat and they were actually fighting for "our freedoms" (which is most certainly not the case in any modern war).

However, they don't play automated announcements in the terminal saying "Military personnel have special showers, we salute you for your service, etc, etc", nor am I aware of them getting special treatment with upgrades, boarding first, etc. I definitely have never seen someone give up their first class seat for a soldier - although I have seen people do it for old WW2 vets who now have limit mobility, and I'm sure people would do it for a young solider that had limit mobility too. I don't think they'd do it just because they're a soldier. Certainly such an event like this would not cause a media show.

I do certainly find it odd how many Americans actually think the modern wars are about "defending our freedom", that's extremely delusional.
 
UALWN
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:11 am

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 55):
I do not think the post man or your barber is risking their life for you.

No, but policemen and firemen are. Many even more than soldiers.

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 55):
The least I can do is give them a "special perk" and upgrade them to First Class or give them a 10% discount at the movies....

But why only to military personnel? Why not to policemen, firemen, etc.?

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 70):
Very true, and notice too how after 9/11 police and firemen are regarded as more heroic.

And yet they don't enjoy any of those perks that military personnel have.
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UALWN
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:15 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 72):
Key difference these days versus many countries is that there's no mandatory service.

There are fewer and fewer countries left with mandatory service, particularly in Europe.
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ssteve
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:19 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 76):
There are fewer and fewer countries left with mandatory service, particularly in Europe.

Maybe in 30 years, the young volunteers will get a nice seat on the plane when they're on leave from fighting some stupid war in some unwilling client state of USSR v2.

Sigh.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:27 am

Quoting Escapehere (Reply 74):
I do certainly find it odd how many Americans actually think the modern wars are about "defending our freedom", that's extremely delusional.

Count me as deluded, then. And you as pathetically-cynical.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:30 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 72):
As a male who's almost through his conscriptable years without having served, there's a "there but for the grace of God go I" aspect to treating those in uniform with respect. Even those politically opposed to everything the military is being tasked with doing generally try to treat those who have volunteered to serve with respect. (These days.)

See, I am the opposite. Everyone deserves equal amounts of respect.

I don't buy into this " altruistic selfless sacrifice" blah blah blah crap that gets spewed by the jingoists. People nowadays the military out of their own self - interest; whether it is having good pay and benefits, opportunities for advancement, being able to see the world, or being able to get a free education. They are not sacrificing anything - it is part of the plan for their bright future. They know exactly what they are getting into

I would be not be bothered at all by special perks for military folks if there actually WAS a draft. Drafted soldiers actually do make a sacrifice; being forced to put their lives and dreams for the future on hold to serve the country; I believe they actually do deserve recognition and extra perks. Most people are in the military now because it is their best career option - that does not deserve nearly as much gratitude and recognition.

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 55):
They do important jobs and I love my barber just as much as the next guy but obviously "life" should not be taken for granted and for someone to sign on the dotted line and say they will risk theirs for mine, The least I can do is give them a "special perk" and upgrade them to First Class or give them a 10% discount at the movies....

Police, Fire, EMT's, emergency room nurses and doctors, security guards, fishermen, and coal miners all put their lives at risk in the service of the public just as much (sometimes more) that soldiers do. So where are their extra perks?
 
Escapehere
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:36 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 77):
Maybe in 30 years, the young volunteers will get a nice seat on the plane when they're on leave from fighting some stupid war in some unwilling client state of USSR v2.

The reason there hasn't been mandatory service in the US, and many other countries for a long time, is because it hasn't been needed. If the US got into a situation where the nation was actually genuinely threatened they'd reinstate the draft very quickly, as would most of the world. The reality is that in the past 50 years that hasn't been the case. Since then there's also been a lot of research which concludes volunteers make far better soldiers than draftees, and one well trained, motivated volunteer is far more useful and effective than 5 reluctant draftees.
 
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ssteve
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:36 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 79):
Most people are in the military now because it is their best career option - that does not deserve nearly as much gratitude and recognition.

I'm not sure why you'd think so. That the willful choice is less deserving of gratitude.

Anyways, it's significant to me.
 
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ssteve
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:46 am

Quoting Escapehere (Reply 80):

The reason there hasn't been mandatory service in the US, and many other countries for a long time, is because it hasn't been needed.

Well, certainly the environment in which there is no draft is helped by the fact that there were politically tenable ways to avoid conscripting the sons and grandsons of people who didn't particularly want those sons and grandsons sent off to war.

However, in the US, the last wars were fought using a huge number of National Guard and Reserve deployments without precedent... not necessarily because those units made the best fighting forces, but because it was politically expedient and certainly went over better with the general population. Those men and women were conscripted in the modern way.
 
Escapehere
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:47 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 78):
Count me as deluded, then. And you as pathetically-cynical.

Wait, there are still people outside of the bible belt who genuinely think Iraq was about defending your freedom?

And I'm the cynical one? OK then.
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:01 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 79):
Police, Fire, EMT's, emergency room nurses and doctors, security guards, fishermen, and coal miners all put their lives at risk in the service of the public just as much (sometimes more) that soldiers do. So where are their extra perks?

Haha are you serious?? This is a non winning argument. There are just way to many naive people out here. You have no clue what these vets are going through or what some have or are going through at this moment do you? When its at its worst at least the police man can come home to his family at night and then it over to the next shift.
 
gkirk
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:15 am

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 84):
When its at its worst at least the police man can come home to his family at night and then it over to the next shift.

Not if they get shot dead they can't.

Paramedicss, Firefighters and Police Officers deserve the same respect as the military
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
D L X
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:52 am

The answer is, military personnel get to do anything they want. Because you don't want to backlash you will suffer from treating them like normal customers.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:24 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 79):
They are not sacrificing anything

Tell that to my family, whom I've spent more than two years apart from in my 8 years of service...tell that to my body, that's been beaten up health-wise over countless deployments to places you would probably think are hell on earth.
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 794
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:15 pm

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 69):
I'd sure like to see a copy of your orders stating bags fly free. I've been associated with the military for some time and I've never seen orders so state.

You must not read military travel orders/official orders at all then because all of mine clearly state (at least Navy/Marine Corps) "Service-member, if flying commercially, is allowed an XX baggage allowance for permanent change of station, TDY/TAD or other official travel. Exceeding allowed XX baggage allowance will result in excess baggage fees at the servicemember's expense."

So, it doesn't say "bags fly free" but in legalese, it basically says so. "XX baggage allowance" and you are granted that. Anything above and beyond that I am responsible for.

So, umm, yeah. Bags fly free or to put it simply , "The US government has already paid for your bags up to a certain amount. Go above that, and you pull out your card.."
 
dfwagt
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:39 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:32 pm

I know at my carrier military travelers on orders are entitled to a baggage allowance that is well over regular passengers.

Now, was in the USAF more than 15 years ago and granted there wasn't a whole lot of combat going on back then, be we never got comped anything.

My favorite people are the ones that go change into uniform for that free upgrade.
 
zanl188
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:38 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 88):
"Service-member, if flying commercially, is allowed an XX baggage allowance for permanent change of station, TDY/TAD or other official travel. Exceeding allowed XX baggage allowance will result in excess baggage fees at the servicemember's expense."

What this means is you will not be reimbursed by the US Govt if you exceed the allowance, but you will be reimbursed for legitimate expenses if you stay within the allowance.

It does not mean an airline cannot charge you for bags.
or "bags fly free"

I suggest you read the JFTR or contact your PSD.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
User avatar
mayor
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 79):
Police, Fire, EMT's, emergency room nurses and doctors, security guards, fishermen, and coal miners all put their lives at risk in the service of the public just as much (sometimes more) that soldiers do. So where are their extra perks?

I have yet to see any of these particular people, travelling in uniform, have you?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1631
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Why throw the employee under the bus when he/she was following the company's policy? If the intent was to allow military dress uniform coats in the closet it is pretty easy to train employees to do so, no?

The bigger issue here is not he coat. A pax in F offered to swap seats and per the other pax reports the FA got pissed off.
This is the bigger issue for me. THe pax worked to solve the problem and the FA, per reports, still was angry....why? The service member thanked them but did not move to F of course. If the closet was full why couldn't the FA say so. Plenty of non-related and connected pax in various seats reported the FA attitude per media reports.

Pax switch seats all the times, and unless I missed it in the CoC is allowed so the FA should not have copped any attitude.

Also, the service member did not initially report this, other pax did.



And yes I have flown US. As for my flights on US, they have been a mixed bag, with some of the worst FA bar none, to some of the best. YMMV.

AWACSooner, not sure how you are travelling but while 552nd policy is one thing, the USAF has people in uniform everyday flying commercial.

[Edited 2014-10-12 08:39:28]
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
lhrnue
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 48):
9/11 didn't affect our way of life? That's why we went over to Afghanistan and severely disabled Al Qaeda.

It is off topic, but Al Qaeda is not disabled. The intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan are the biggest military errors in history. Both countries are left in disarray. IS, Al Qeada and the Taliban gaining momentum like never before.
 
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Revelation
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 92):
This is the bigger issue for me. THe pax worked to solve the problem and the FA, per reports, still was angry....why?

To me the bigger issue is the difference between management's rhetoric and management's written policy. It's a shame the FA acted the way he/she did, but it's more of a shame that management's policies allowed the easy way out and now even more of a shame that management is not acting to update their written policies and instead trotting out an ex-military captain to pile on more baloney while avoiding fixing the root cause, poor management policies.

Pre-merger US was a leader in the race to the bottom when it comes to cheapening the product and services to extract more money from passengers. Management should own the messes they made instead of pushing the inevitable problems onto the front line staff. They want the best of both worlds. They want to act like they're a premium airline that is considerate of their passenger's needs whilst doing everything they can to cheapen the product to force people to upgrade to get a reasonable level of service and comfort. It's kind of like a daughter who tells mommy and daddy that she's a good girl whilst she takes every chance she can to get drunk and drop her panties. Everyone involved knows what's going on, yet no one will come clean about it.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
nwcoflyer
Posts: 685
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RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 57):

I find that very hard to believe. Every agent at the company knows we waive military bags. I have a feeling there is more to this story. I hope you enjoyed your flight on WN.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:33 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 48):
9/11 didn't affect our way of life? That's why we went over to Afghanistan and severely disabled Al Qaeda.

It affected my way of life. Which has nothing to do with going to war/invading another country. There's no such country as Al Qaeda. The president at the time chose to invade a country thousands of miles away, with his interests in mind. 9/11 was an excuse for him.

Let's not forgot that terrorism is not limited to other countries. We have plenty of militants right here on U.S. soil, that are born and raised here. OKC bombing ring a bell? And with that same logic, should we invade Georgia over the Boston bombings? It's time to start looking within.

Everyone should be treated with respect, even if they're not military. If the closet is full, said military person can hang his coat in the last row of first. Just like any other coach passenger. The FA was a mess, and just didn't want to deal. There's no policy per say on not hanging coach passenger garments. Plain, and simple. Now we have social media sensationalism. And all the praise, and glory of all things military come into play. How dare she not hang his coat! She should be kissing his feet for giving her freedom in this bountiful land called Merica!

It's a job. No one is drafted. Respected, but not idolized. This shouldn't have even made the news. Moving on.
"The low fares airline."
 
slvrblt
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 94):
It affected my way of life. Which has nothing to do with going to war/invading another country. There's no such country as Al Qaeda. The president at the time chose to invade a country thousands of miles away, with his interests in mind. 9/11 was an excuse for him.

Let's not forgot that terrorism is not limited to other countries. We have plenty of militants right here on U.S. soil, that are born and raised here. OKC bombing ring a bell? And with that same logic, should we invade Georgia over the Boston bombings? It's time to start looking within.

Everyone should be treated with respect, even if they're not military. If the closet is full, said military person can hang his coat in the last row of first. Just like any other coach passenger. The FA was a mess, and just didn't want to deal. There's no policy per say on not hanging coach passenger garments. Plain, and simple. Now we have social media sensationalism. And all the praise, and glory of all things military come into play. How dare she not hang his coat! She should be kissing his feet for giving her freedom in this bountiful land called Merica!

It's a job. No one is drafted. Respected, but not idolized. This shouldn't have even made the news. Moving on.

Best post of all.
..everything works out in the end.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12845
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 65):
And the ticket is coded, "Official Military Travel. No Charge For Bags."

He doesn't say that.

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 68):
Bag charges will be reimbursed, but the member must apply for that, a slight hassle.

Just like I do when I have oversized baggage. I claim it off my company.

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 68):
I should think so. They should at least be eligible for pre-boarding if in uniform -- the gate announcement does not specify only "US" military, after all.

My uncle was the NZ Military Attaché to the UN, has was a Colonel, he always travelled in full uniform in the US for the perks, he didn't bother in other countries because nobody else gave a crap.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 85):
Tell that to my family, whom I've spent more than two years apart from in my 8 years of service...tell that to my body, that's been beaten up health-wise over countless deployments to places you would probably think are hell on earth.

We all make choices in our lives and have to live with them, just because you decided to make your family a distant second to your career is your problem and nobody else's.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3494
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:38 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 96):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 65):
And the ticket is coded, "Official Military Travel. No Charge For Bags."


He doesn't say that.

Perhaps you - and the US Airways agent - should read again the US Airways policy:

1st, 2nd and 3rd checked bag fees waived
•Confirmed First and Business Class customers
•Dividend Miles Chairman's Preferred*
•AAdvantage Executive Platinum*
•oneworld Emerald*
•Active U.S. military with ID and dependents traveling with them on orders (1st - 5th bags free of charge)
•Active U.S. military with ID on personal travel
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2536
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 90):
AWACSooner, not sure how you are travelling but while 552nd policy is one thing, the USAF has people in uniform everyday flying commercial.

I'm not with the 552nd...my observation was a general one. I rarely see USAF folks traveling in uniform, but the Army is a different story. The other thing that irks me a bit is that AA does go out of their way to board "military in uniform." You know what? Most of us don't travel that way...we travel in civvies, even when traveling on official business. Either make it "all military" for that boarding...or squash it!
 
UALWN
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 77):
Maybe in 30 years, the young volunteers will get a nice seat on the plane when they're on leave from fighting some stupid war in some unwilling client state of USSR v2.

I very much doubt it. They are doing a tough job, but it's their choice. You call them "volunteers," I call them professionals. They have no more or less right to a nice seat than everybody else in the plane. As several people have mentioned upthread, respect for their tough job can be shown instead by giving them a fair pay and working conditions, excellent health care benefits, a good pension, etc. Not by letting them board first the plane, which I find a classical example of "form over substance."
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1631
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

RE: US/AA Facing Media Backlash After Military Spat

Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:22 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 98):
I'm not with the 552nd...my observation was a general one. I rarely see USAF folks traveling in uniform, but the Army is a different story. The other thing that irks me a bit is that AA does go out of their way to board "military in uniform." You know what? Most of us don't travel that way...we travel in civvies, even when traveling on official business. Either make it "all military" for that boarding...or squash it!

YOu used to be 552 before NATO and you have spoken of those travels over the years-it is a cumlative thing.
I travel much more than you do, and I see AF in uniform all the time.It happens....often.

UNITED often boards military, and not military in uniform BTW.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"

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