Wright Amendment Ends 12:01am Oct 13

ridgid727 · Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:06 pm

With the Wright Amendment Ending on the 13th, and WN starting this new service out of Love Field, will there be a special party or anything at Love?

smokeybandit · Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:08 pm

I'd think they'd be dancing in the streets at WN

Luftfahrer · Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:13 pm

I just read about this Wright Amendment on wikipedia since I had never heard about it before. Quite surprising to see such a restriction in place, especially in Texas – which is pretty pro-business after all, right? Anyway, the DAL wiki article is quite a sight

Wonder what the growth figures are going to look like...

unmlobo · Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:17 pm

WN is hosting a concert/fireworks show in downtown Dallas on Sunday the 12th, amongst other festivities. And of course there is the annual employee Spirit Party which will be held on Wednesday at WN's HQ.

routeplanner · Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:21 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
WN is hosting a concert/fireworks show in downtown Dallas on Sunday the 12th, amongst other festivities

In True SouthWest Style I bet that is a great party.

What are they doing on the concourses etc on Monday?

What flight is the historical 1st flight out to a non W/A city?

[Edited 2014-10-11 11:22:57]

greggariouspdx · Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:49 pm

What flight is the historical 1st flight out to a non W/A city?

It looks like WN# 1013 to Denver @ 6:40am

zululima · Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Thread starter):
With the Wright Amendment Ending on the 13th

I don't know why everyone thinks the Wright Amendment is "ending" or "going away". The media especially should know better than to say this.

It is still in place indefinitely, and is still horribly restrictive to both airlines and the consumer. I don't understand why congress is trying to protect one of the busiest airports in the world (DFW) at the expense of everyone else.

Southwest may be celebrating on the 13th, but within months they will have already capped-out in terms of available flights per day. No international either. Virgin America has likewise put themselves in a shoebox with short-sighted planning IMO.

Wright and its effects will be around for a long time to come.

kl911 · Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:31 pm

Wow,

I never realised the US was regulating an industry. Aren't we all for free trade/markets? Why protect certain parties?
And digging deeper, Im a bit shocked that airlines in the US have to own gates, which can and is limiting their growth and flexibility. In Europe an airline gets gates assigned when they land. My Budapest to Amsterdam flight could be arriving at C1 or D84 for example, you never knew.

flylku · Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:59 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 7):

I never realised the US was regulating an industry. Aren't we all for free trade/markets?

It is my understanding that this amendment was implemented to justify the public investment in DFW. If that is correct, one would think that by now it should be able to compete with Love Field.

Side note, I believe in 1971 I was on Braniff's orange "Great Pumpkin" 747-100 deaprting Love for HNL. Can you imagine! I was in the 2nd grade.

737tdi · Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 5):
It looks like WN# 1013 to Denver @ 6:40am

Yep, try and buy a ticket on that flight. It is sold out and about 20 non revs have signed up. I was going to try and jump on it and no way. I might could fly jumpseat but could be bumped by flight crew so I decided to sit this one out.

As far as the celebrations go, they have already started. Concerts, food etc. for the rest of the next week. Although the WA is not completely gone it is surely a lot less restrictive. I know for most of y'all it is not a big deal, but for the employees of SWA it is. Especially us who work in DAL. Non revving out of DAL has always been a challenge because we always had to connect at another city to get out of the 6 state area. WooHoo, I can non rev to DEN, SAN, LAX, LGA, MCO without stopping in ABQ, AMA, OKC etc.. I know it never made a difference for the company but it is great for a huge employee pool. Again WOOHOO.

smokeybandit · Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:30 pm

So by closing 12 gates, does this put people out of work?

lightsaber · Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 10):
So by closing 12 gates, does this put people out of work?

They really weren't used anyway. Traffic will increase, so there will be more jobs.

Lightsaber

ridgid727 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:12 am

Is Virgin America participating in the party in downtown Dallas, or are they having their own elsewhere?

NW · Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:24 am

Why are they waiting till 12:01?
What's the significance of waiting the minute?

steex · Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting NW (Reply 13):

Why are they waiting till 12:01?
What's the significance of waiting the minute?

If it is in fact at 12:01 AM (I have no idea), I would wager it's because a shockingly large number of people still don't know whether 12:00 AM is noon or midnight. And as an extension of that, a decent proportion of people think of midnight as part of the ending day rather than the day that has just begun.

I used to work for a company where I was in charge of ordering traffic data and would generally request a 24-hour period from 1:00 AM to 1:00 AM if I needed information for a full day because of how frequently requesting data from 12:00 AM to 12:00 AM resulted in getting noon one day to noon the next.

[Edited 2014-10-11 17:38:17]

smokeybandit · Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:38 am

So which 12:01 does it end at? Eastern Time? Central Time for DAL?

crj900lr · Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:55 am

Quoting steex (Reply 14):
I needed information for a full day because of how frequently requesting data from 12:00 AM to 12:00 AM resulted in getting noon one day to noon the next.

Should have used 00:00 to 00:00

steex · Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:18 am

Quoting crj900lr (Reply 16):
Should have used 00:00 to 00:00

That attempt was also made, but unfortunately the same people who aren't sure when 12:00 AM of 13OCT14 is also don't know when 00:00 of 13OCT14 is.

[Edited 2014-10-11 18:19:10]

S75752 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:22 am

Good riddance, that amendment was dumb and pointless.

Now let's see the stupid DCA and LGA versions get tossed too, please!

737tdi · Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:02 am

Quoting NW (Reply 13):
Why are they waiting till 12:01?
What's the significance of waiting the minute?

Because that is the beginning of a day, Your day may start at )800 but the clock for airlines and every business in the world is 00:01. That is the next day.

steex · Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:16 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 19):
Because that is the beginning of a day, Your day may start at )800 but the clock for airlines and every business in the world is 00:01. That is the next day.

His point was that the start of the day is actually at 12:00 AM (or 00:00), not at 12:01 AM (or 00:01).

atrude777 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:25 am

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 5):

It looks like WN# 1013 to Denver @ 6:40am

Hahaha, using the October 13th as the flight number..nice!

1013, 10/13

Alex

ridgid727 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:00 pm

Great article about how Virgin America is trading one Large rival for another in a piece from the Dallas Morning News

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...des-one-mega-rival-for-another.ece

flylku · Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:20 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 18):
Now let's see the stupid DCA and LGA versions get tossed too, please!

Good point!

jfklganyc · Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 18):

Now let's see the stupid DCA and LGA versions get tossed too, please!

Three totally different animals.

LGA and DCA are bursting at the seams. Couldn't handle any significant increase in flights even if they wanted too.

DAL is being artificially restrained (2 parallel runways with ability for lots of flights) by a 20 count gate cap.

LGA and DCA also have differences in their regulation.

In the case of LGA/JFK, the airports are a mere 8 miles apart. Short haul business routes go to LGA. Long haul/International/leisure short haul go to JFK.

It's a model in place in many cities around the world and seems to work well for NYC. The reality is, the perimeter at LGA is far enough that most major cities except the west coast and SLC/PHX can be served.

But airlines know a fully loaded 320/737 isn't getting off LGAs runways to the west coast anyway.

Jetmarc · Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting NW (Reply 13):

It's to help prevent confusion... I've seen many customers show up the wrong day for a flight, when its a midnight depature say on the 13th, it means the first you need to be at the airport at 11:00PM/23:00 on the 12th; however customers would show up the night of the 13th near midnight and I'd have to explain they were a day late. We eventually changed depature times to be either 11:59PM or 12:01AM which helped significantly with the correct date.

Could also be that 12:00A is when it ends and 12:01A is when it starts; if it was to start at 12:00, wouldn't it technically then end 11:59P on 10/12? That's probably the reason for a minutes difference.

Luftfahrer · Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 21):
Hahaha, using the October 13th as the flight number..nice!

To me it looks like 1013 millibars (29.92 inches of mercury), which is the standard atmospheric pressure. So as if to say, it is the new standard to have WN flights to places all over the country from DAL.

DocLightning · Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 14):
If it is in fact at 12:01 AM (I have no idea), I would wager it's because a shockingly large number of people still don't know whether 12:00 AM is noon or midnight. And as an extension of that, a decent proportion of people think of midnight as part of the ending day rather than the day that has just begun.

Rather, a shockingly large number of people think that 12:00AM is the day before.

When I was a student and resident in the hospital, I always wrote midnight orders for 12:01 AM to avoid confusion after having learned that lesson the hard way when a patient had to have an endoscopy canceled after Nutrition served them breakfast that morning.

As to how the legislation is written, I don't know.

SKC · Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting smokeybandit (Reply 15):
So which 12:01 does it end at? Eastern Time? Central Time for DAL?

I presume it's Herb time (central).

KarlB737 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:05 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 2):
I just read about this Wright Amendment on wikipedia since I had never heard about it before.

Courtesy: WFAA-TV

Southwest's Farewell To Wright Amendment Set For Monday

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/2014/...amendment-set-for-monday/17054991/

Changes Begin At Love Field As End Of Wright Amendment Nears

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local...mendment-airport-flights/15655941/

Wright Amendment Timeline

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local...right-amendment-timeline/16941857/

Sooner787 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:14 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 12):
Is Virgin America participating in the party in downtown Dallas, or are they having their own elsewhere?

Yes, they're having an airborne party on a special flt from DFW to DAL tonite I believe.

SRB himself will be aboard as master of ceremony. Also, they're having a party
Monday night at Dallas' House of Blues.

The plane will be full of media , VIP's and local travel agents.

They had a drawing at our office for 2 seats offered to our office
and as usual I didn't win LOL

KarlB737 · Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:20 pm

The Dallas Morning News has a four part writeup on: The End of the Wright amendment

The four individual links for all four parts are at this link:

http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/ending-wright/

1. Next Leg Of The Journey

2. How Big An Impact?

3. Free To Roam The Country

4. A Good Alternative

airliner371 · Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:48 am

Virgin's planes are on the way...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/V...0/history/20141013/0459Z/KDFW/KDAL

SWADawg · Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:04 am

LUV IS SET FREE!!!!!!

airliner371 · Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:13 am

DALLAS IS NOW FREE TO MOVE ABOUT THE COUNTRY!

WRIGHT IS WRONG

Wright Amendment =

TWA772LR · Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:18 am

If people are celebrating, literally, the easing of restrictions at an airport like DAL, imagine what will happen when they relax at DCA and LGA. Can someone say BA LCY A318 service? I bet the only one not celebrating is DL.

Does this mean WN can also start flying Intl from DAL? Or is that a whole different animal?

Quoting steex (Reply 14):
If it is in fact at 12:01 AM (I have no idea), I would wager it's because a shockingly large number of people still don't know whether 12:00 AM is noon or midnight.

People get confused when you say 12 midnight. Like when a professor says a paper is due on 10/23 at midnight. Is that midnight the night of 10/22 or the night of 10/23 (beginning of 10/24)? So people start setting important events at times like 11:59 pm or 12:01 am to avoid confusion.

ODwyerPW · Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:28 am

Felicidades Southwest Airlines!

737tanker · Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:53 am

The Wright Amendment is still officially in place and hasn't ended. However it now only has two major restrictions and a minor restriction. The major restrictions are no international flying from DAL and a 20 gate cap at DAL. The minor restriction is that for every gate WN has at DFW they lose one at DAL. The worst restriction did end at 12:01 AM on Oct 13th and that was limiting non-stop flights to the states that were listed in the Amendment.

[Edited 2014-10-13 04:01:59]

bjorn14 · Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:40 am

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 37):
The major restrictions are no international flying from DAL and a 20 gate cap at DAL.

Does the 20 gate cap end in 2025? Stupidest thing they did was teardown the old 5-gate Legend Terminal. I wonder who really was responsible for that? WN, AA or the politicos?

par13del · Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:03 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 38):
Does the 20 gate cap end in 2025? Stupidest thing they did was teardown the old 5-gate Legend Terminal. I wonder who really was responsible for that? WN, AA or the politicos?

WN is / was trying to get more gates from UA and the AA gates, so no, I don't think they are responsible for the 20 gate cap.
The cities of Dallas Forth Worth, Dallas, AA and the investors in DFW airport are the most likely drivers of the restriction, it is supposed to protect the public investment that was used to build DFW back in the late 1960's early 1970's.
Unlike when DFW was initiated, the FAA has not taken a position this time on any split funding between the airports, so now they appear to be content to continue to provide funding to both DFW and DAL as they have done since the court ruling on DAL and commercial traffic.

LoneStarMike · Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:37 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 38):
Quoting 737tanker (Reply 37):
The major restrictions are no international flying from DAL and a 20 gate cap at DAL.

Does the 20 gate cap end in 2025? Stupidest thing they did was teardown the old 5-gate Legend Terminal. I wonder who really was responsible for that? WN, AA or the politicos?

No, the 20 gate cap doesn't end in 2025. What does end in 2025 is the requirement for WN to give up a gate at Love Field for every gate they have at any other airport within an 80-mile radius of Love Field (up to a maximum of 8 gates)

BTW, the old Legend Terminal had 6 gates, not 5. It would have made a great regional jet facility, but I think I read somewhere that the occupancy limit of that terminal was 800 people. That was fine considering Legend was using 56-seat aircraft back then, but I don't think the terminal could have handled 6 full-sized jets at the same time. If you had 6 arriving flights come in around the same time and each one had 100 passengers, you'd have 600 arriving passengers deplaning into the terminal and there could theoretically be another 600 passengers already in the terminal waiting to board the outbound flights. That's 1,200 potential people in the building plus the airline & concession employees and the meeters & greeters.

I don't think the interior was large enough to handle that many people.

LoneStarMike

bjorn14 · Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:39 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 40):
BTW, the old Legend Terminal had 6 gates, not 5.

Brain Cramp...I knew that it just did not come out right.

Theoretically, could you add 6 more gates at FTW or Collin County/McKinney.

KarlB737 · Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:43 pm

A detailed writeup of events this morning at Dallas Love Field. Interesting reading.

Courtesy: Dallas Morning News

It’s The End Of The Wright Amendment At Dallas Love Field

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...endment-at-dallas-love-field.html/

USA Today chimes in as well:

Will Long-Distance Dallas Flights Boost Southwest?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...-flights-boost-southwest/17174835/

[Edited 2014-10-13 06:51:15]

LoneStarMike · Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:39 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 41):
Theoretically, could you add 6 more gates at FTW or Collin County/McKinney.

I don't know the answer to that, but something else that I had forgotten about was that in the 2001 Love Field Master plan which called for a maximum of 32 gates, 26 would have been in the main terminal with the other 6 over at Legend's private terminal. But there was an interesting clause in that Master Plan that stated if the former Legend Terminal was no longer used for air carrier gates that the City of Dallas could allow up to six additional gates in the main terminal.

A May, 2001 article also mentions it:

Quote:
Mr. Mitchell said that should the Legend terminal owners decide not to use the facility for commercial airlines, the city could replace the gates with six more in the main terminal that faces Cedar Springs Road.

The building's owners have the option of converting the property to a general aviation facility. But Mr. Sleeper said that's unlikely.

source

Of course that was back then and things have changed.

A couple of years ago WN sent me a bunch of stuff including a Set Love Free T-shirt.

I've never worn it, but I will today.

Anyway, congratulations to Love Field and the airlines who will serve it! This day has been a long time coming.

LoneStarMike

KarlB737 · Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:35 pm

According to this video only report Southwest is giving away 500 free round trip tickets today at DAL. It is mentioned at about 2:20 into this video report.

Courtesy: KDFW-TV

Wright Amendment Ends At Love Field

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/clip/1068388...right-amendment-ends-at-love-field

LoneStarMike · Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:07 pm

One of the articles I read quoted Herb Kelleher, so I'm assuming he was there, but I haven't seen any actual photos or video where he is shown. I know he must be happy, though.

What about Delta? Did they have anything special planned?

Also, I guess it was just business as usual for UA?

LoneStarMike

cjpark · Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 42):
A detailed writeup of events this morning at Dallas Love Field. Interesting reading.

Courtesy: Dallas Morning News

It’s The End Of The Wright Amendment At Dallas Love Field

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...endment-at-dallas-love-field.html/

USA Today chimes in as well:

Will Long-Distance Dallas Flights Boost Southwest?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...4835/

Who knows how much WN paid for all of the fluff pieces in the news this past week.

GSPSPOT · Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:13 pm

Quoting cjpark (Reply 46):
Who knows how much WN paid for all of the fluff pieces in the news this past week.

Exactly what I was wondering.... When the REAL game-changer for DAL pax is the presence of VX at Love Field IMHO.

bcoz · Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 47):
Quoting cjpark (Reply 46):
Who knows how much WN paid for all of the fluff pieces in the news this past week.

Exactly what I was wondering.... When the REAL game-changer for DAL pax is the presence of VX at Love Field IMHO.

They didn't pay the Dallas Morning News, USA Today or any other legitimate news outlet anything.

Now, do they have an incredible public and media relations department that got them this "earned" media? Absolutely! It's all about playing the game!

usflyguy · Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 47):
Exactly what I was wondering.... When the REAL game-changer for DAL pax is the presence of VX at Love Field IMHO.

Yep, 16 daily flights split between 4 cities is definitely a game-changer for travelers in the DFW area... adding 2 new cities which don't add any additional competition to AmericanAirlines. They were losing their pants at DFW and they now have their fingers crossed that things will be better at DAL.

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