http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...tml?_osource=SocialFlowFB_BAYBrand

Check it out!!!

Not a good week at all at AA/US

This cant be good. Can any tech people here describe what happened in the photos???

KH

Quote: American Flight 2293 depressurized and started coming apart mid air," Wilson wrote. "Please pray for us."

  

It must have been terrifying, yeah. But coming apart in mid air? Not really.

I've never seen a depressurisation do that to a interior panel, though.

Do 757's have tear strips?

Oh wait, it would have been all over the article that pieces of the aircraft were falling from the sky, nevermind.

Well it looks like the wall came apart at the seam. Not exactly the plane falling apart.

Glad it wasn't more serious... It must have been scary for some of the pax though...

"American Flight 2293 depressurized and started coming apart mid air," Wilson wrote. "Please pray for us."

LOL

This is different coverage from a San Francisco newspaper blog with this statement from AA.

Quote: American Airlines spokesman Matt Miller said an “air duct issue” caused the interior wall panels of the cabin to come loose. There was no depressurization in the cabin, he said. “When they realized those panels came loose, the captain decided it was best to return to San Francisco and landed the plane there safely,” Miller said. “They declared an emergency because it was an unscheduled landing.”

http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/...eturns-to-sfo-after-cabin-buckles/

Quoting mcoflyer (Reply 1): Can any tech people here describe what happened in the photos???

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 2): I've never seen a depressurisation do that to a interior panel, though.

Quoting as739x (Reply 3): Well it looks like the wall came apart at the seam. Not exactly the plane falling apart.

Read the article.
American has already explained that an air duct failed.
This most likely lead to high pressure air entering areas it wasn't intended to, which pushed the interior panels in, until the could vent. Air ducts fail periodically in flight. It's not common, but it's not unheard of. Most often, a clamp blows apart from fatigue or improper installation.
NOT something you want to experience, but also NOT a life-threatening situation....

Why didn't he land at someplace closer to where they were at the time, like FAT?

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):

Is there AA maintenance at FAT? No. Since no-one was in imminent danger, the pilot went to the most convenient location to get it fixed quickly.

"American Flight 2293 depressurized and started coming apart mid air," Wilson wrote. "Please pray for us."

Good grief.

Overdramatic passengers are usually the worst sources of technical information on a mechanical issue.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 11):

If I only Have $1.00 for each time I had to dealt with a Pilot's complaint: "Passenger note a crack (or a panel loose) on the wing"!! W/o even Rh or lh side indication!! At the end, or a grease 2" line, (residual grease drop spread by airflow), or a normal working flap covering panel or another simplicity, but Yo have to or find the smoking gun or check all wing surface Inch by inch!.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 11): Overdramatic passengers are usually the worst sources of technical information on a mechanical issue.

Spot on.

An in cabin duct failed and blew trim out of place. That does not directly indicate a hull failure....

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8): Why didn't he land at someplace closer to where they were at the time, like FAT?

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 9): Is there AA maintenance at FAT? No. Since no-one was in imminent danger, the pilot went to the most convenient location to get it fixed quickly.

Also, time will be required to descend and secure the cabin, assuming they had reached cruise. So you might as well use the time to head for a larger airport / airline base, that can better deal with the passengers and the airplane.

Was there even cabin depressurization? There are no oxygen masks, or do the only come down above a certain altitude?

Quoting 777stl (Reply 11): "American Flight 2293 depressurized and started coming apart mid air," Wilson wrote. "Please pray for us."

Cabin depressurized means oxygen masks automatic drop from the ceiling, not the case !
Seems a side wall panel is just disengaged from the structure lugs, its like if in your house the wall paper is falling. Does not hurt the integrity of the house, you can continue to safely read the newspaper in your sofa.

misleading title for the thread. there was no depressurization.

"Does not hurt the integrity of the house, you can continue to safely read the newspaper in your sofa." ...or use social media to inform the world that the sky (and the person posting) is falling!

Not to play devil's advocate here, but would the crew have known it was only an blown air duct at the time? Granted, no depressurization, but yet potentially concerning not knowing exactly what went wrong.

I had a similar experience back in 2001. While on the takeoff roll, two ceiling panels on top of about 4 rows in front of me came down and oxygen masks fell down on these rows.
This was also on an AA 757. Flight attendants came back, and this is while we're on upwind, played with it, one of them called the captain to return and in the meantime, two of them were able to snap everything back in. We then continued our flight to MIA as if nothing happened.
However, the landing in MIA was so hard that we realized the plane was quite safe.
Greetings.
Regu

No depressurization, no "coming apart in mid air," essentially this is a nothing-to-see-here story.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 2): It must have been terrifying, yeah. But coming apart in mid air? Not really.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 9): Good grief.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 11): Overdramatic passengers are usually the worst sources of technical information on a mechanical issue.

Quoting papertec (Reply 18): or use social media to inform the world that the sky (and the person posting) is falling!

Yes, in hindsight, after knowing exactly what the problem was, we can safely say that the ability of the aircraft to fly safely was never in jeopardy.

Yes, passengers can be overdramatic when something goes wrong in the plane BUT...

So many A-Netters have an incredible lack of empathy to passengers who experience something abnormal about a flight. The average passenger is not in the aviation business and does not spend their day on A-Net, they have lives. Their knowledge of the mechanics and operation of aviation is limited. They are flying in a tube, miles high in the air, almost as fast as the speed of sound. Everyone is fully aware of what can happen when something catastrophic happens, even though many know that statistically it is very very safe. They have limited knowledge of the seriousness of what is occurring and they have no control over the aircraft; you can't just pull over on the side of the highway. They hear loud sounds, different than what they are used to, and interior panels start falling, sometimes on top of them.

What are they supposed to think? Even with the amount of A-Net surfing, I would be nervous at a minimum and possibly even terrified. Why is that concept so difficult for people on this forum to comprehend?

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): What are they supposed to think? Even with the amount of A-Net surfing, I would be nervous at a minimum and possibly even terrified. Why is that concept so difficult for people on this forum to comprehend?

Correct!

I guarantee this experience would be frightening for almost any passenger, a.netter or not, especially when at the time it happened, nobody could know for sure what the problem was.

Jimbo

I can see some over dramatization from passengers.
Low on fuel - We're going to fall out of the sky!
Cracked windshield - We can't breathe!
Turbulence - The wing's going to fall off!

That's just off the top of my head  

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): So many A-Netters have an incredible lack of empathy to passengers who experience something abnormal about a flight. The average passenger is not in the aviation business and does not spend their day on A-Net, they have lives. Their knowledge of the mechanics and operation of aviation is limited. They are flying in a tube, miles high in the air, almost as fast as the speed of sound. Everyone is fully aware of what can happen when something catastrophic happens, even though many know that statistically it is very very safe. They have limited knowledge of the seriousness of what is occurring and they have no control over the aircraft; you can't just pull over on the side of the highway. They hear loud sounds, different than what they are used to, and interior panels start falling, sometimes on top of them.

I agree with you on this. The problem is that these are the ones who contact the media or who are contacted who then blow it completely out of proportion. I watched a report from a SFO news station yesterday. After being overly dramatic about the incident, they made sure to include "and some of the passengers said they got no help in finding another flight". The media, at any opportunity they get, will slam an airline because they are so popular in this culture of hate. I am fairly positive that AA probably did everything possible to assist those people. But it takes awhile to process 188 passengers.

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 19): Not to play devil's advocate here, but would the crew have known it was only an blown air duct at the time? Granted, no depressurization, but yet potentially concerning not knowing exactly what went wrong.

That was my point in my prior post. Sometimes either the checklist, or the captain's judgement, calls for landing at the nearest suitable airport. That doesn't mean where there are nice hotels or maintenance facilities. That means getting on the ground as soon as possible at any airport where a safe landing can be made.

I'm speaking in generalities. I don't know the details of this incident enough to second guess the captain's decision to return to SFO.

For example, I know of at least two past fire related accidents where the crew mistakenly thought it was only harmless air conditioning pack smoke and didn't get on the ground right away. However, it was really a catastrophic fire building up.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 6): American Airlines spokesman Matt Miller said an “air duct issue” caused the interior wall panels of the cabin to come loose. There was no depressurization in the cabin, he said.

That is consistent with the video. Jeez... ok, it would be freaky to have a panel venting in front of oneself, but the 'life danger' just wasn't there.

  

Lightsaber

I think the analogy of calling it "like wall paper" is spot on. It's "window dressing" to cover up the ugly stuff. Imagine if these people saw the interior of a cargo plane...or their car w/o the "trim!"

This thread is completely misleading. No decompression has been reported. It's certainly a serious issue but all emergency landings (which happen all the time) are serious. In these situations, factual objectivity is a most. I've suggested to the moderators to change the tabloid-like title. Let's see what happens.

[Edited 2014-10-14 08:37:37]

Quoting Hagic (Reply 29): I've suggested to the moderators to change the tabloid-like title. Let's see what happens.

I suggested that 24 hrs ago..

back on subject.. just a story
many years ago, a Boeing engineer who designed interiors took a trip on a new L1011.. he was intrigued on how the sidewall panels were attached and using his pen knife (yes I said it was long ago) proceeded to remove one of the mullions (joint cover strips) and then inadvertently the two adjacent panels came off.. he got his answer, and restored the panels but was invited to use a different airline in the future.

A lot of very brave people here, as usual. If only airlines could have more reasonable passengers like yourselves eh?

I think it's unfortunate that we can't require 180 over-sensationalizing 'journalists' to take that very plane to Dallas. Here's my version of how they have to fly the three hours:

For thinking this is actually a pressurisation issue, you will all wear yellow masks for the entire trip. Over your pacifiers.
For causing undue alarm, you will sit the entire trip in soggy Depends.
For over-hyping stories about passengers with issues on leg room, every seat will be reclined into your face, and all of you will be duct taped to your seat backs. We will also put cardboard pizza boxes between seats so that there are pokey things in your lap.
You will enjoy 3 hours of lectures about the joys of living on current airline salaries, safety, security, and the safeguards built into our aircraft.
There will be a 1,000 question exam before you are allowed to leave the aircraft on which you must score a minimum of 90% to exit, and will only be allowed one retake. Smoke may be introduced into the cabin during the retake to encourage you.

Thank you for your attention.

Quoting kanban (Reply 30): back on subject.. just a story many years ago, a Boeing engineer who designed interiors took a trip on a new L1011.. he was intrigued on how the sidewall panels were attached and using his pen knife (yes I said it was long ago) proceeded to remove one of the mullions (joint cover strips) and then inadvertently the two adjacent panels came off.. he got his answer, and restored the panels but was invited to use a different airline in the future.

I'm surprised he didn't get invited to spend a few weeks in jail too. That is really really uncool to do something like that.

Quoting 777stl (Reply 11): Overdramatic passengers are usually the worst sources of technical information on a mechanical issue.

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 10): Good grief

Quoting as739x (Reply 3): Well it looks like the wall came apart at the seam. Not exactly the plane falling apart.

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 2): It must have been terrifying, yeah. But coming apart in mid air? Not really.

Not for nothing, it is easy to sit at a keyboard and be an expert on these matters. I am sure if you are on an aircraft and saw/heard something like this, it would be unsettling at best, perhaps terrifying at worst. The average passenger is not going to be extremely knowledgable on how planes are built or designed, so anything highly out of the ordinary like this is going to register some level of alarm. Quite simply, aircraft panels are not supposed to tear apart like this, so I'd have been worried there was some other damage that was not easily seen.

In my humble opinion, I agree that this aircraft was in no imminent danger. However, I feel that the captain made the right call turning around. No need to have 150 scared passengers turn into angry, or worse, hysterical passengers if they continued to Dallas.

Sorry, I didn't in any way mean to suggest that the return to SFO wasn't appropriate. I just think a calm and reasoned announcement, "Ladies and gentlemen, we are aware of the issue at row X. Please rest assured, it is not a serious issue, and has in no way compromised the aircraft, your safety, or the ability of the airplane to continue on to Dallas. However, it is unsettling, and as a precaution and for your comfort we are opting to return to San Francisco where we have the most options to get you on your way to Dallas, or to your chosen destination tonight. We've already got our teams in Dallas and San Fran working on your needs, and should have answers for you on arrival at SFO. I want to reiterate that this is purely a precaution, and not in anyway a danger to you or to our safety, we believe it to be a minor malfunction inside the paneling that makes the wall look nice from inside and that it is cosmetic not structural. Again, we'll be returning to SFO, and should have information on the ground there for you about your new plans. Thank you."

Then remind the FA's that SFO is the closest base with multiple airlines, extra airplanes, maintenance facilities, etc. Not that any of those are necessarily the one true answer, but any could be part of the solutions for any particular passenger. And those pieces of information may help them in explaining the reasoning of SFO versus closer small fields.

It was the right call, in my book. The media was way out of line, hence, my answer for them above.

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 5): "American Flight 2293 depressurized and started coming apart mid air," Wilson wrote. "Please pray for us." LOL

Quoting baldwin471 (Reply 10): "American Flight 2293 depressurized and started coming apart mid air," Wilson wrote. "Please pray for us." Good grief.

Good grief indeed - to both of you, baldwin471 and clickhappy. Very insensitive of you laughing at a passenger's fear in what anyone can see would be a very stressful situation for the average traveler on a plane.

And kudos to United787 for actually exhibiting traits of human sympathy for those involved:

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): So many A-Netters have an incredible lack of empathy to passengers who experience something abnormal about a flight. T

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): What are they supposed to think? Even with the amount of A-Net surfing, I would be nervous at a minimum and possibly even terrified. Why is that concept so difficult for people on this forum to comprehend?

The passenger "uproar" was more dangerous than the tears in the plane's interior. I have taken off in planes with similar interior damage that I had pointed out to cabin personnel, who seemed unconcerned about it.

I agree with the lack of empathy. It is easy to be an armchair quarterback safely sitting at your computer saying the passengers were reacting poorly.

If I was on that 757 and both sides of the interior panels tore I'd be wondering if it was due to a hull breach or something different as well. I'd likely be nervous and for those who say otherwise, I challenge your assessment. Now factor in the general public who knows very little about aviation and of course you'll have nervous passengers. My mind would be thinking of that Aloha Airlines 732 that had part of its outer hull pull away. Yeah I'd nervous.

Quoting flybynight (Reply 38): If I was on that 757 and both sides of the interior panels tore I'd be wondering if it was due to a hull breach or something different as well. I'd likely be nervous and for those who say otherwise,

So how did the captain know it wasn't a potential hull breach when he returned to SFO, rather than closer airports?

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 25): The problem is that these are the ones who contact the media or who are contacted who then blow it completely out of proportion.

Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with being ignorant on a subject as long as you don't profess to be an expert on it. Which probably means you shouldn't comment to the media on it either.

Every time I see one of these incidents and some clueless passenger professing that he almost died, I just have to laugh. There was one a while back that absolutely blew my mind. The aircraft had blown a tire on landing but it was otherwise uneventful. The media grabbed ahold of this nothing incident and managed to find some clueless female passenger who was proclaiming to anyone that would listen that she just survived a plane crash.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39): So how did the captain know it wasn't a potential hull breach when he returned to SFO, rather than closer airports?

Because the plane was still pressurized?

Quoting 777stl (Reply 40): Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39): So how did the captain know it wasn't a potential hull breach when he returned to SFO, rather than closer airports? Because the plane was still pressurized?

Notice I said "potential".

Quoting 777stl (Reply 40): There's nothing wrong with being ignorant on a subject as long as you don't profess to be an expert on it. Which probably means you shouldn't comment to the media on it either.

  

It's the culture, at least in North America, that many people are seeking their "15 minutes of fame." So, people post something purposely hyperbolic on Twitter, and hope that the media picks it up. They're probably hoping to pick up more followers too. It is recklessly and irresponsibly narcissistic, and becoming far too common. It certainly doesn't help that the media generally seems more concerned about ratings than journalistic integrity.

[edited for clarity]

[Edited 2014-10-14 13:12:55]

Quoting 777stl (Reply 40): There's nothing wrong with being ignorant on a subject as long as you don't profess to be an expert on it. Which probably means you shouldn't comment to the media on it either.

Exactly. Thirty years ago, if the captain told passengers that there was no danger but he was going to return out of an abundance of caution, they would have accepted that. Today, people not only approach things skeptically, which in my view is fine -- if you have a question, please ask!, but they take it further and insist that they know better and they are being lied to, making mountains out of molehills with an unwarranted confidence that they know better. And, most tellingly, they do so even after being shown to be wrong.

Do they forget that the crew is also trapped with them on the same plane?

Of course, crew do make mistakes. Bad mistakes. Fatal mistakes.

Remember after Air France how so many posters on here were huffing and puffing about how "well trained" and "professional" and "experienced" the AF pilots were? Like it was an insult to even question whether they had any role whatsoever in the accident. And then we read Vanity Fair this month and say, "Holy Crap!". It really is true that aviation is sausage -- you're better eating it without asking what's inside. Delicious? Great. What's in it? Good stuff. I promise.

However, if someone explains to you rationally what is going on, and it makes sense, there's no reason not to go with that, when the alternative is to create and experience massive knowledgeless drama.

I have no beef with the passenger on the local station who says he was scared. Of course he was. I do have a beef with him when he said the captain came out and looked at it and said it was fine, and safe to continue to Dallas, making it sound like the passengers, who knew better, made him turn the plane around. If they had a real concern that it was an imminent threat to the safety of the flight, they reveal their lack of knowledge by accepting his decision to return to SFO rather than landing at the nearest suitable.

But then again, these are the same people who post pictures of their evening's meal on Instagram. Oy.

Edit: I think I will go watch Mike Judge's vision of the future in "Idiocracy" again tonight. "It's got ELECTROLYTES!!!"

[Edited 2014-10-14 13:28:08]

Quoting 777stl (Reply 40): Because the plane was still pressurized?

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41): Notice I said "potential".

And because it was the row where the air duct risers are.

The aging 757 has had a ton of problems with the over head air duct. Usually it breaks in the ceiling causing the ceiling to fall and wack a F/A in the head. Operators have been replacing them for a while now with a new improved duct.

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): The average passenger is not in the aviation business and does not spend their day on A-Net, they have lives.

Spot on sir / ma'm!
Many on here think that the world consists of airplane nerds.......
Other people have lives and don't care if a newspaper uses a B737 image above a B787 article.
And yes, they would get nervous with any little incident high above in the sky!
Like you pointed out:

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): Even with the amount of A-Net surfing, I would be nervous at a minimum and possibly even terrified.

Same here!

Quoting United787 (Reply 22): Why is that concept so difficult for people on this forum to comprehend?

Beats me!

Quoting 777stl (Reply 40): Which probably means you shouldn't comment to the media on it either.

That is a fair point too, although there's nothing wrong with telling your story........you know, accurately detailing your experience as a passenger without going into technical details you don't know that much about!


No Tax On Rotax

Quoting aerolimani (Reply 42): It's the culture, at least in North America, that many people are seeking their "15 minutes of fame."

This is not a unique situation based solely on the North American continent. I swear that every second jackass driving a car is on their phone searching for the next "viral sensation" to pass on. Sorry to digress from subject. Moderators feel free to remove.

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 44): Quoting 777stl (Reply 40):Because the plane was still pressurized? Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):Notice I said "potential". And because it was the row where the air duct risers are. The aging 757 has had a ton of problems with the over head air duct. Usually it breaks in the ceiling causing the ceiling to fall and wack a F/A in the head. Operators have been replacing them for a while now with a new improved duct.

This was not caused by maintenance or lack of maintenance to the aircraft. This was caused by a piece of the pre conditioned air duct that is hooked to the aircraft while it is parked at the gate. A piece of the duct came loose and got into the air conditioning riser ducts that are behind the wall. Because that piece was in that duct it caused it to rupture and cause lots of noise and scare the crap out of everyone. The pilot with the information he had returned to SFO which I think everyone agrees was the right thing. This aircraft is now at a major maintenance station getting the air conditioning ducts cleaned out and repaired.