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26point2
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2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Likely some anxious F9 passengers today. The story quotes the airline as saying plane was cleaned "..within CDC guidelines.." before it flew again next day. Forgive me but surely the regular post flight wipe down is not sufficient under these circumstances?

Surely this will get the Fox News pundits screaming.

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2...efore-she-reported-symptonms.html/
 
hardalphaTi22
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:53 pm

She also flew to Cleveland on Friday 10/10 on Frontier 1142 out of Gate E21 departing at 3:26 CDT.

Does anyone know if local travelers departing Terminal E typically enter the Airport directly at Terminal E, or do they commonly enter at other terminals and use Skylink to E?

I connected through Dallas on 10/10 shortly after 3pm but was only in terminals A and B (A to B via Skylink).

The audacity to hop on a plane two days after your Ebola patient died is stunning (and an indication that the situation is out of control).
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Thread starter):
Surely this will get the Fox News pundits screaming.

Can we leave comments like this out of the threads? It adds drama that we don't need, imho.

Quoting hardalphaTi22 (Reply 1):
The audacity to hop on a plane two days after your Ebola patient died is stunning (and an indication that the situation is out of control).

I don't know the protocol for these things, but clearly we are incapable of managing a situation like this. If you can go to a hospital with symptoms and tell them you've been exposed to the Ebola virus - and they STILL botch it - we are screwed.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
a318
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Countdown until NK's newest sale tagline: "Fares so low you'll need to be quarantined!"   
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:11 pm

Quoting hardalphaTi22 (Reply 1):
The audacity to hop on a plane two days after your Ebola patient died is stunning (and an indication that the situation is out of control).

You can get Ebola from someone else if the other person is symptomatic and you come in contact with his/her body fluid. Obviously the patient (Thomas Duncan) was symptomatic (that's why he was in the hospital) and apparently the 2nd healthcare worker came in contact with his body fluid, but if she (second healthcare worker) wasn't symptomatic on the flight, I don't think the other passengers were at risk. And if they were at risk, the other passengers stillwould have had to come in contact with her body fluid.

If Ebola was an airborne disease, I would be concerned, but that's not how it's spread.

Personally, I think this is being blown out of proportion.

LoneStarMIke
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:15 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 4):
You can get Ebola from someone else if the other person is symptomatic and you come in contact with his/her body fluid. Obviously the patient (Thomas Duncan) was symptomatic (that's why he was in the hospital) and apparently the 2nd healthcare worker came in contact with his body fluid, but if she (second healthcare worker) wasn't symptomatic on the flight, I don't think the other passengers were at risk. And if they were at risk, the other passengers stillwould have had to come in contact with her body fluid.

I presume what he was referring to was the first visit Duncan made to the ER, when he had a fever and said he had just come from West Africa, but the info did not get passed and he was sent home.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 5):
I presume what he was referring to was the first visit Duncan made to the ER, when he had a fever and said he had just come from West Africa, but the info did not get passed and he was sent home.

I didn't interpret it that way. He said The audacity to hop on a plane two days after your Ebola patient died is stunning

I believe this nurse was on the team that treated Thomas Duncan while he was in ICU on his second visit. After he died, she flew to CLE to visit family. But unless she was symptomatic, she couldn't have passed it on to other passengers, and even if she could, there would still have to have been contact with body fluid.

Thomas Duncan was not symptomatic when we flew from West Africa to the US back in September, and I have yet to hear if anyone else on any of the flights in his itinerary has contracted the disease.

LoneStarMike
 
Dalmd88
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:35 pm

A healthcare worker that is in the 21 day watch period should not be traveling. They should be in contact with as few people as possible. Anything else is irresponsible for some one in that field. She put a lot of people at risk. If she had developed symptoms while at the airport or on the plane just think of the numbers involved. Some people need to stop thinking only about themselves.
 
antskip
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:44 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 4):
...if she (second healthcare worker) wasn't symptomatic on the flight, I don't think the other passengers were at risk. And if they were at risk, the other passengers still would have had to come in contact with her body fluid. If Ebola was an airborne disease, I would be concerned, but that's not how it's spread. Personally, I think this is being blown out of proportion.

When exactly a person becomes "symptomatic" is surely not clear. Apparently, the first symptoms are a headache, sore throat, muscle pain, fever. The onset is experienced very like influenza. The discovery and reporting of the first symptoms of ebola Is mostly left to the individual themselves. If this self-managing / volunteer arrangement is defective, then everyone in contact with them becomes at risk. Though not aerial-borne as such, the virus can transfer via a cough, or via a shared surface (human or otherwise) - and all sorts of other ways that people unwittingly share their bodily fluids. Surely, those known to be exposed to the ebola virus should be in quarantine for the 21-day incubation period; not on any mass transit vehicle. Such a serious public health issue should not be left to individual choice.

[Edited 2014-10-15 12:04:03]
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:15 pm

I agree that she probably shouldn't have been traveling during the 21-day period, but I don't blame the nurse herself. I put the blame on whatever agency (or the hospital) has a protocol that only calls for self-monitoring for that 21 days. The way I understand it, you just have to take your temperature twice a day, but if it's OK and you have no symptoms you're free to go about your business. (except for the family members of Thomas Duncan - they were quarantined.)

I agree that things are a mess right now, though and it's kind of ironic that all this has happened in Texas, a state that is trying to lure other businesses from other states because we have lower taxes and more "reasonable" regulations that are business friendly.

LoneStarMike
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 9):
I agree that she probably shouldn't have been traveling during the 21-day period, but I don't blame the nurse herself. I put the blame on whatever agency (or the hospital) has a protocol that only calls for self-monitoring for that 21 days. The way I understand it, you just have to take your temperature twice a day, but if it's OK and you have no symptoms you're free to go about your business. (except for the family members of Thomas Duncan - they were quarantined.)

I absolutely blame the nurse. She knew she had a fever *before* she flew. She also knew she'd been treating an Ebola victim. As far as I'm concerned that's wanton endangerment. Unacceptable from anyone, be especially a healthcare professional.

"Frieden said Vinson had been monitoring herself for symptoms of Ebola and failed to report that her temperature had risen to 99.5 degrees before she departed for Dallas."
Source:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/1...th-ebola-usa-idINL2N0SA0EY20141015
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
antskip
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 10):
"Frieden said Vinson had been monitoring herself for symptoms of Ebola and failed to report that her temperature had risen to 99.5 degrees before she departed for Dallas."
Source:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/1...th-ebola-usa-idINL2N0SA0EY20141015

Thomas Frieden, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention should resign. He clearly has been busier doing PR these past 10 days than doing the job of securing public safety. Likewise the Director and Board of the Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital. Such displays of poor judgment as well as medical incompetence for all to witness. - and if Vinson did really get on a plane with the knowledge of an increased temperature, then words cannot describe her action.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:18 pm

Quote:
The CDC said earlier that it was asking all of the more than 130 passengers who shared the Frontier flight to call a CDC hotline.

Wow, this is becoming a logistical issue. Still, better be safe than sorry.

[Edited 2014-10-15 13:26:21]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:24 pm

 
RDUDDJI
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 11):

Thomas Frieden, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention should resign. He clearly has been busier doing PR these past 10 days than doing the job of securing public safety

I won't argue with that. It was really disappointing when he immediately came out and said that the (first) nurse didn't follow proper procedures, before he had any information to substantiate that. I found that, at best, to be unprofessional.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:39 pm

If anyone is suggesting a 21 day no-fly period after a person has been part of a medical team treating an Ebola patient...good luck

I strongly suggest anyone pimping that notion read up on the transmission modality of this disease. This isn't the flu people and it's not airborne. Transmission is not easy and if someone isn't symptomatic, the odds of transmission are even lower.

The CDC (which botched its response) will go overboard the other way to ensure everyone who may have had contact (even on a plane where they sat 30 rows away) is notified.

Diseases such as Ebola should ideally be treated as we treat burn and trauma patients - in a specialized facility with staff who've received intensive specialized training. We have four of them in the U.S. currently and Texas Presbyterian Hospital isn't one of them.
 
greenair727
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:42 pm

The "Clean" plane is now ready to re-enter pax service as F9 1101, departing 430pm (10 minutes ago.)
 
SocalApproach
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:44 pm

I personally do not believe them for a second when they say it cant be transmitted through the air. If that is the case why are they sending people on planes with space suits like they are the second coming of Neil Armstrong? When I read the line "experts have said it can only be transmitted through bodily fluids"and then i see how they walk around in a space suit when they are taking a chance of being exposed it just makes me laugh.

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 13):
Airline stocks tumbling on Ebola fear

I am sure it would be worse if they said it can be transmitted through air....which i am not 100% convinced it cannot
 
AR385
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting hardalphaTi22 (Reply 1):
The audacity to hop on a plane two days after your Ebola patient died is stunning (and an indication that the situation is out of control).
Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 9):
but I don't blame the nurse herself. I put the blame on whatever agency (or the hospital) has a protocol that only calls for self-monitoring for that 21 days.

You would think that a health professional, such as a nurse, that has seen first hand what Ebola does, treated a patient who died of it and had a co-worker infected would have the good sense, the minimal good sense, not to engage in travel on mass transport for 21 days. But nooooo she absolutely had to hop on a plane and go to Cleveland. I don´t know how to call that but irresponsible, selfish behavior. If she makes it, I hope someone on that flight sues her for every penny.

More stories like this and people are going to stop travelling for a while, except on their own cars.

Quoting antskip (Reply 11):
Thomas Frieden, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention should resign. He clearly has been busier doing PR these past 10 days than doing the job of securing public safety.

Not to mention the different allegations of very dangerous pathogens being misplaced and employees being exposed. The CDC is quickly becoming the laughing stock of the epidemiological community.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 17):
which i am not 100% convinced it cannot

Scientists are not 100% sure either.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Independence76
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:10 pm

I live about half-an-hour from the hospital where the first Ebola patient was treated.

So far, this entire situation is incredible considering the lack of precautions and regulations that have been put into place regarding this issue. The CDC has clearly not followed through with any of the procedures they claim to have been practicing. Meanwhile, the nurses are not being provided with proper information and surveillance. Despite the dramatically expensive and challenging health care education one receives in the United States, for hospital staff with such intellect to willingly get on a commercial plane after being around a patient with a high rate of exposure and mortality is absolutely unbelievable.

Even the most basic and responsible precautions practiced by a federal entity in this scenario could have ensured that any nurse in contact with this patient wouldn't even go near a commercial airport.


As for the flights, I've done some digging. The aircraft she flew on was N220FR (delivered a year ago) on F9 1142 into DFW. That night, the flight F9 1143 was meant to depart about 45 minutes later back to CLE. Instead, the flight was cancelled for reasons I still don't know. It sat at gate E20 overnight and took off about 12 hours later back to CLE as flight F9 2042. The reason for this flight number changed is still unknown.

Were the gate attendants notified after arrival, resulting in the flight being cancelled and the plane cleaned?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 17):
I personally do not believe them for a second when they say it cant be transmitted through the air.

Ok, we'll put you and Fox News in the "sky is falling" camp. Do you believe another virus called HIV is also transmitted through the air?

Viruses transmit between human beings in certain ways. They don't magically mutate from fluid based contact to airborne contact.

Aside from the usual means such as sexual contact or sharing needles, this type of virus has to enter someone's body via contaminated fluid contact to a victim's a) mucus membranes b) open wound. Accidental needle sticks are a prime risk for health care workers along with improper post patient care decon procedures.

If you feel that Ebola is airborne, stay at home, lock the doors and sit in front of the door with daddy's shot gun propped across your lap and wait for the little green men to come get ya.
 
WNbob
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:21 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 5):
If Ebola was an airborne disease, I would be concerned, but that's not how it's spread

If we know this decease so well, the African doctors (who deal with this everyday) and the Texas nurse should not had been infected.

I don't know about you but I won't be flying Frontier any time soon. For P.R. sake they should have at least grounded that plane longer, 1 grounded plane is not going to kill them.
 
bcoz
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:25 pm

Can anyone clear up for me a question about the aircraft(s) in question?

The woman flew from DFW to CLE last week and returned to DFW on Monday. We've only heard about one aircraft being decontaminated. Why is that?

Also, if they're decontaminating the aircraft that she flew on from CLE to DFW on Monday, it just HAPPENED to be back in in CLE when they found out the woman was showing symptoms -- and thus had to be decontaminated IN Cleveland?

bcoz
 
AR385
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:30 pm

Quoting bcoz (Reply 23):
Why is that?

Because she had symptoms on the way back, not on the way out.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:33 pm

Quoting wnbob (Reply 22):
If we know this decease so well, the African doctors (who deal with this everyday) and the Texas nurse should not had been infected.

I don't know about you but I won't be flying Frontier any time soon. For P.R. sake they should have at least grounded that plane longer, 1 grounded plane is not going to kill them.

This is the reaction which will be seen if people do not take the time to understand what is going on. African doctors who are in close contact with Ebola have rarely been infected. Doctors Without Borders handle Ebola patients and other patients with more contagious diseases in Africa all the time without issue. The key is consistency in following the decon protocols.

So would you like F9 to ground the plane for a day, a week, a month or just burn it now? Should they use bleach or gasoline or some other method to make it more comfortable for you? You do know that give the multiplicative nature of human contact (as you define it when getting freaked about F9) that literally dozens if not hundreds of planes from different airlines have been "exposed" by now?

Just drive on your next trip and not worry.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting wnbob (Reply 22):
If Ebola was an airborne disease, I would be concerned, but that's not how it's spread
If we know this decease so well, the African doctors (who deal with this everyday) and the Texas nurse should not had been infected.

I don't know about you but I won't be flying Frontier any time soon. For P.R. sake they should have at least grounded that plane longer, 1 grounded plane is not going to kill them.

That was not my quote so I am not sure how you got it in your posting....
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
Planesmart
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:01 pm

I'm no health professional, but in the last 24 hours I've seen two so-called health experts suggesting Ebola may (may already) mutate to airborne infection the longer the outbreak continues.

Given how they transport patients, and protect those treating patients in transit, I would like to think any small, poorly ventilated boxes and tubes, like aircraft, trains, toilets, etc, would be quarantined and cleaned to an exceptionally high standard, after known use by someone with Ebola.

Infectious disease protocols for medical staff who treat someone with a highly infectious disease, is self-imposed quarantine for 21 days. But amazingly, to reach their preferred quarantine location, they can use trains, taxis, planes, etc. The only caveat, is if they are displaying possible symptoms, they are quarantined at that location.
 
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Spacepope
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:03 pm

Meh, still safer than driving.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:04 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 9):
I agree that things are a mess right now, though and it's kind of ironic that all this has happened in Texas, a state that is trying to lure other businesses from other states because we have lower taxes and more "reasonable" regulations that are business friendly.

Interesting way to wind a political statement into this. I guess.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
The CDC is quickly becoming the laughing stock of the epidemiological community.

I really appreciated them in "Invasion". Probably not good to utilize a movie for reference. lol

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Scientists are not 100% sure either.

Groovy...

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 21):
Ok, we'll put you and Fox News in the "sky is falling" camp.

Well, KarelXWB said this above:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Scientists are not 100% sure either.

So I suppose we should start making a list of all the people you'll need to insult.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 21):
If you feel that Ebola is airborne, stay at home, lock the doors and sit in front of the door with daddy's shot gun propped across your lap and wait for the little green men to come get ya.

Again, quite an insulting statement.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Junction
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:07 pm

It's interesting how the media always like to focus on airlines as a way to get quick attention. If this really is something for us to worry about, why stop there? What restaurants did this person eat at? Where did she shop? Where does she take her dry cleaning? What taxi might she have ridden in? Pure media hype at its best is all any of this is right now.
 
F9Fan
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:21 pm

The Cleveland local media has gone nuts over this. My favorite sports station's a.m. drive time hosts were in full panic mode, and that was before the Cleveland connection was made. At lunchtime, local press reported on how the main TSA checkpoint at CLE was sanitized, and expressed concern that they weren't screening the food vendors or scrubbing the concourses. There was a rumor that Kent State University was quarantined because they thought the patient vusited there, but she didn't step foot on campus, and the campus was never quarantined. Everyone needs to stop panicking over this.

[Edited 2014-10-15 15:23:31]
 
Okie
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 25):
Doctors Without Borders handle Ebola patients and other patients with more contagious diseases in Africa all the time without issue

16 infected and 9 dead from ebola, try again.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 25):
The key is consistency in following the decon protocols.

You are probably correct, decon before removal may be the issue here but they have not said exactly but they seem to be missing something because of the cross contamination on both continents to health workers.

Quoting bcoz (Reply 23):
The woman flew from DFW to CLE last week and returned to DFW on Monday. We've only heard about one aircraft being decontaminated. Why is that?

According to the CDC you are not contagious until you run a fever.
This person was asked not to travel and did, even did the return trip when running a fever.

That being said there were 5 people in close contact in an apartment with patient 0 while running a fever and sick yet so far they have not shown any symptoms.
70 some hospital workers are being monitored and now 130 or so airline passengers/employees. We are at 200+ in short order.

Okie
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:32 pm

It's nice that they've reached out to the passengers and crew of the flight, but have they also reached out to the folks who cleaned the plane and emptied the lavs at DFW after the flight was over?

LoneStarMike
 
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jmw99ttu
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:37 pm

On a side note, I just spotted the medivac plane taking off from DAL taking the nurse to ATL. Probably one of the more unique spottings in my life.
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:37 pm

So, folks, is it time to publish a list of known "Ebola aircraft?" Serious question. Duncan's planes + Vinson's planes. How about keeping an updated list. Just for the heck of it. I am supposed to fly AA through Dallas next week and I personally would like to know if I am boarding an Ebola plane.
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 4):
You can get Ebola from someone else if the other person is symptomatic and you come in contact with his/her body fluid. Obviously the patient (Thomas Duncan) was symptomatic (that's why he was in the hospital) and apparently the 2nd healthcare worker came in contact with his body fluid, but if she (second healthcare worker) wasn't symptomatic on the flight, I don't think the other passengers were at risk. And if they were at risk, the other passengers stillwould have had to come in contact with her body fluid.

If Ebola was an airborne disease, I would be concerned, but that's not how it's spread.

Personally, I think this is being blown out of proportion.

LoneStarMIke

Vinson certainly was symptomatic on her CLE-DFW return flight. She had a 99.5F temperature. That is a symptom. I am not certain at what point a fever qualifies one as contagious by CDC rubric, but by my logic I would assume that if the virus is in one's body enough to trigger a defensive fever, then the virus is likely transmissible by bodily fluids. I understand your reluctance to overplay the danger, but how about thinking about it in another manner:

Did Vinson use the toilet? Did she wash her hands? Did Vinson wipe her eyes or touch her nose at any time during the flight? Did she then touch any surface of the aircraft? Did Vinson drink a soda? Did the flight attendant touch the rim of the used cup with her bare hands? If so, is it possible that the Ebola virus was deposited on some surface(s) of the aircraft? Is it possible that another passenger may have touched one of those surfaces? In my opinion, the answer to some of those questions would be "yes."

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 25):
So would you like F9 to ground the plane for a day, a week, a month or just burn it now? Should they use bleach or gasoline or some other method to make it more comfortable for you?

Turn it into beer cans now. Alcohol kills bugs, plus "God protects the United States of America and drunks."
/s
 
db373
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 11):
Thomas Frieden, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention should resign. He clearly has been busier doing PR these past 10 days than doing the job of securing public safety.

Before people jump on the CDC Director.....

Thomas Frieden is a doctor who was thrust into this PR role because the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA currently doesn't have a Surgeon General because our Congress couldn't get their act together and approve a Presidential appointee. That position has been vacant for OVER A YEAR.

The PR point person should be the Surgeon General, not the Director of the CDC, so everyone needs to back off of him.
Keep Delta My Delta
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:02 pm

I'm struggling with the fact that a nurse and healthcare professional who is suppose to lead by example and by her own admission had a low grade fever knowingly flew not only once but twice and potentially putting others in harms way. Whether directly or indirectly she had had exposure to Ebola non sterile area. That's   
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:06 pm

I hope the thread doesn't take a political turn here. I want to try to head that off with a neutral summary: The USA does not currently have a Surgeon General. He is being blocked because many in Congress are very concerned that he was appointed with a political agenda. He is a strong advocate of gun control, and politically active. Those blocking him have two main complaints: 1. That they don't feel that the top medical officer should be involved in poltical advocacy like this. 2. That he is very, very young - 35 years old - and that he doesn't have the depth oof experiene to be the nominee to such a high post. Those are the objections, as far as I can tell. The following quote I grabbed from an article, just as an example:

"Also, the group that Murthy co-founded, Doctors for Obama (now called Doctors for America), specifically advocates for gun control by touting its medical credentials. Furthermore, as investigative reporter Emily Miller detailed in the Washington Times, “Murthy’s Twitter timeline is chock full of his anti-firearm screed,” and includes a boast about a “doctor-nurse campaign demanding gun safety legislation from Congress.”"

Here is a bit on Murthy:

"Vivek Hallegere Murthy (Kannada:ವಿವೇಕ ಮೂರ್ತಿ, born 1976 or 1977) is a British-born American physician who has been nominated by U.S. President Barack Obama to serve as the 19th Surgeon General of the United States.[1] Murthy is co-founder of Doctors for America, formerly known as "Doctors For Obama."[2] If confirmed by the U.S. Senate, Murthy would become the youngest Surgeon General in U.S. history[3] and would succeed the current acting Surgeon General Boris D. Lushniak."

So yes, we have no Surgeon General, and yes, he is being blocked, but those blocking him feel that Obama was playing politics with the nomination, and want a "less political" nominee, and Obama has refused to withdraw the nomination. So there are two sides to the story.

That's as neutral as I can put it, to the best of my ability. Either way, I agree that it's not too good not to have a Surgeon General.
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:12 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 39):

I'm struggling with the fact that a nurse and healthcare professional who is suppose to lead by example and by her own admission had a low grade fever knowingly flew not only once but twice and potentially putting others in harms way. Whether directly or indirectly she had had exposure to Ebola non sterile area. That's   

Hope she is lucky and recovers. After that, she should not be allowed to practice nursing ever again. For a healthcare professional, the negligence she has shown is of epic proportions.
 
antskip
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:53 am

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:28 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 37):
Vinson certainly was symptomatic on her CLE-DFW return flight. She had a 99.5F temperature. That is a symptom. I am not certain at what point a fever qualifies one as contagious by CDC rubric

The CDC threshold had been 104F. They have now put a complete public transport travel ban on all people under watch.
 
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cjg225
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:32 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 3):
Countdown until NK's newest sale tagline: "Fares so low you'll need to be quarantined!"

I'm not gonna lie, I laughed... because I could see them doing that.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2234
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:34 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 42):
They have now put a complete public transport travel ban on all people under watch.

So does that now include everyone on those planes or just folks that treated Mr. Duncan and/or the currently ID'd patients? Will that include everyone that "contacted" everyone on those planes? We're talking about potentially thousands of folks.
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2808
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 42):
Quoting CO953 (Reply 37):
Vinson certainly was symptomatic on her CLE-DFW return flight. She had a 99.5F temperature. That is a symptom. I am not certain at what point a fever qualifies one as contagious by CDC rubric

The CDC threshold had been 104F. They have now put a complete public transport travel ban on all people under watch.

I know a person being monitored is supposed to report to the hospital if the have certain symptoms (watery stool, vomiting, etc.) and a temperature greater than 101.5 degrees according to this:

http://www.publichealth.lacounty.gov...s/b73/DiseaseChapters/B73Ebola.pdf

LoneStarMike
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 40):
That's as neutral as I can put it, to the best of my ability. Either way, I agree that it's not too good not to have a Surgeon General.

Interesting. One Surgeon General had to resign (she did right?) because she advocated masturbation. Another one can´t get the position because he advocates gun control. I suppose they should start nominating robots for the the position.

Quoting CO953 (Reply 36):
How about keeping an updated list. Just for the heck of it. I am supposed to fly AA through Dallas next week and I personally would like to know if I am boarding an Ebola plane.

That list would have to be very long, because in theory, you would have to include the planes where those other passengers in close contact with those who got sick flew onwards, if they had a connection, or have been flying since.
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:44 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 42):
They have now put a complete public transport travel ban on all people under watch.

You can't help but think some of this stuff is being made up or implemented on the fly.

It sounds like the CDC discounted Ebola and got caught. The Dallas hospital certainly was not ready.

This is scary enough to make me want to use the other Dallas airport DAL and avoid DFW all together.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:48 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 41):
After that, she should not be allowed to practice nursing ever again. For a healthcare professional, the negligence she has shown is of epic proportions.

"Epic proportions"?

She says she rang the CDC and they gave her approval to fly:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...er-vinson-cdc-ebola_n_5993486.html

"Amber Vinson, Dallas Ebola Patient, Says CDC Gave Her Green Light To Fly

Vinson told CBS Dallas Fort Worth that she was feeling ill before boarding her flight. She had a low grade fever, but she said that officials told her it was okay to get on the plane. Vinson told CBS that she called the CDC several times with concerns.

CNN confirmed that she called the CDC before her flight."


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
lewis
Posts: 3586
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 48):

Yes, if you are a healthcare professional who has just finished taking care of someone who DIED from Ebola and the first thing you go and do is get on an airplane then you show very bad judgement, regardless of what the CDC said. If she was so concerned, couldn't she give it some time before potentially exposing hundreds? Was a trip really necessary? I am putting blame on the CDC as well, not just her.

I really thought people were over-reacting in the US with Ebola, after all, the medical personnel and facilities are light years ahead of Africa, right? Well it seems a lot of people employed in healthcare AND the CDC are not the sharpest knives in your drawer...
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 48):
Vinson told CBS Dallas Fort Worth that she was feeling ill before boarding her flight. She had a low grade fever, but she said that officials told her it was okay to get on the plane. Vinson told CBS that she called the CDC several times with concerns.

CNN confirmed that she called the CDC before her flight."

That was a cop out on her part. She is not an average joe. She is a nurse, with first hand experience on Ebola. She should have known better. And probably did. But now she can say "But I called them and they said yes."

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