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CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 99):
There should be a social penalty to being wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME, and it starts with shutting the **** up about everyone else being "rubes" for showing any concern about the potential spread of the virus.

And this is why what you somewhat snidely call the "guns and ammo crowd" have been so consistently upset with the current administration. It has been wrong about almost everything since 2009, and yet the "guns and ammo crowd" been demonized and called racist for predicting and pointing out the failures. If you like your Ebola you can keep your Ebola. I take intellectual issue with your choosing to equate your "guns and ammo crowd" and your "smart set." The former has been correct about almost everything, and the latter has been wrong about almost everything. The "guns and ammo crowd" is not the crowd that should be "shutting the **** up." Actually, the "guns and ammo crowd" is owed a large apology from a lot of people (who probably don't have the intellectual honesty to offer it).
 
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par13del
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 8):
Such a serious public health issue should not be left to individual choice.

How would it be changed, have the police round up and quarantine folks?

Quoting mariner (Reply 64):
Really, this is reminding me more and more of the initial reactions to the AIDS crisis, but I suppose it depends on your definition of "decontamination":

Well if we take the most common infection requiring decontamination - cruise ships with the Norwalk virus - the chances are very good for infection.
Cruise ships have returned with sick patients, spent a few hours to a day being contaminated, load up put out to sea and return with more sick pax requiring another decontamination cycle.

I accept folks paid a lot of money for their cruises and since the virus is not regarded as lethal, they took the chance. Ebola is regarded as lethal, does this mean that those in authority who oversee and those who perform the decontamination take it more seriously, to my knowledge the cruise line employee perform / assist with the decontamination, I do not know who did the same at the homes in Texas.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 95):
We have no medication that at the moment can stop/cure Ebola. Strides are being made, but in the context of medicine that usually takes years.

I wasn't referring to medication. I'm referring to actions.

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 95):
(Imagine what Ebola would do in a nation like China)

Not a lot since they would simply lock people in their homes and burn rural villages if that's what it takes to contain it.

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 95):
If it gets bad, open pit burning of bodies is the best way to go.

Uh, we won't have a choice.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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mariner
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 101):
Well if we take the most common infection requiring decontamination - cruise ships with the Norwalk virus - the chances are very good for infection.

I'm not sure that I understand your point - an aircraft is a much more controllable space than a cruise ship.

In this case, the aircraft in question was taken out of service and cleaned four times, and not just regular cleaning. Seat covers and carpet have been removed and disinfected and the environmental filters changed. The relevant crew have been put on paid leave.

All this is above and beyond the CDC recommendations, so yes, those in authority at the airline may take it more seriously, and the aircraft may presently be one of the safest in the US.

mariner
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flyorski
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 99):
Anyways, the point is that it would be great if the "guns and ammo crowd" and the "smart set" crowd could shut up for a minute and stop arguing amongst themselves so that the "Yellow Alert" crowd that you so aptly called it could maybe chime in here too every now and then. We don't think you need to don a hazmat suit on your commute to work and don't think Obama is out to purposefully kill your family. We also don't think it's unreasonable to expect the CDC to closely monitor the staff at the Dallas hospital and not have them flying all about the country.

Thank you for a voice of reason. I agree more of the moderates, people using real logic and looking at things from the middle need to be heard. Neither side is "demonic" nor is either side "evil" although both extremes will paint the other as such and those of us in the middle are consistently getting brushed into the different extreme. It is sort of a "if you are not with us, you are against us" mentality.

Quoting mariner (Reply 103):
All this is above and beyond the CDC recommendations, so yes, those in authority at the airline may take it more seriously, and the aircraft may presently be one of the safest in the US.

It sounds like the FR aircraft, based on Mariners comments is very safe now and FR is showing more caution and leadership than what the CDC has prescribed.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 104):
It sounds like the FR aircraft, based on Mariners comments is very safe now and FR is showing more caution and leadership than what the CDC has prescribed.

So I wondering, out of an abundance of caution, and for public-relations benefit, did AAL replace Duncan's seat, or are pax still flying around in it? Yeah, I know the CDC party line that he wasn't contagious, but it would be nice to hear that AAL had indulged the fears of its customers. I also wondering what Phoenix Air Transport is doing to sanitize the plane they have been using to transport patients to Atlanta, and also what precautions tha pilots have taken?

ETA - Sorry! Confused UAL and AAL - my apologies.

[Edited 2014-10-16 13:32:51]
 
yv773p
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 105):
So I wondering, out of an abundance of caution, and for public-relations benefit, did AAL replace Duncan's seat, or are pax still flying around in it? Yeah, I know the CDC party line that he wasn't contagious, but it would be nice to hear that AAL had indulged the fears of its customers. I also wondering what Phoenix Air Transport is doing to sanitize the plane they have been using to transport patients to Atlanta, and also what precautions tha pilots have taken?

He flew United...
Even the lazy jellyfish do it!
 
sierra3tango
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 51):
Quoting mariner (Reply 51):It reminds me of the over-the-top reactions to the original AIDS crisis.I think that the more adequate analogy would be to what happened with the Spanish flu.

Partially off topic, I know, but there an equally nasty virus called MERS which has got to many countries including the
USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome

Anyone ever heard of it ?

Maybe we should all do a Howard Hughes and totally isolate ourselves OR on the other hand we could just get on with life
 
AR385
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 107):
Partially off topic, I know, but there an equally nasty virus called MERS which has got to many countries including the
USA

But isn´t that one related to Camels? How is it transmitted?
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting yv773p (Reply 106):
He flew United...

Oops! Yes, thanks for the correction. I got it mixed up with a suspected case that was on an AAL MD-80. There was such a flurry of suspected cases.

So what do we have for contagious-confirmed or -possible "Ebola" aircraft so far?

1. Duncan - Brussels Airlines Flt. ??? - Monrovia to Brussels - POSSIBLE (XXX?)
2. Duncan - United Airlines 951 - Brussels to Dulles - POSSIBLE (777?)
3. Duncan - United Airlines 822 - Dulles to Dallas/Fort Worth - POSSIBLE (A320?)
4. Vinson inbound - N220FR - CONFIRMED (A320) - "SANITIZED"
5. Vinson outbound N213FR - POSSIBLE (A320)
6. Vinson's mother?? and ?? - POSSIBLE >> airline?? - (XXX?)
7. The Phoenix Air transport plane.

I understand the various "GAR" aspects, discussed above. I'd still like to keep a running list of Ebola aircraft tail numbers, just to indulge some OCD, if nothing else. Can anyone help provide the missing or questionable aircraft types?

[Edited 2014-10-16 13:33:47]
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 107):
Partially off topic, I know, but there an equally nasty virus called MERS which has got to many countries including the
USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome

Anyone ever heard of it ?

Maybe we should all do a Howard Hughes and totally isolate ourselves OR on the other hand we could just get on with life

MERS mortality rate = 41%.
Ebola mortality rate = 70%

Both are ugly. Ebola is worse. And apparently much more transmissible. So all-or-nothing viewpoints aren't helpful. We need to stomp this bugger out quickly and not let politics or complacency get in the way.
 
flyorski
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 109):

You can add the AF 320 in MAD to your list. I think if you are making a list, might as well make it known aircraft worldwide.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
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par13del
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 103):
I'm not sure that I understand your point - an aircraft is a much more controllable space than a cruise ship.
Quoting mariner (Reply 64):
but I suppose it depends on your definition of "decontamination":

The reply was in relation to the comment on level of decontamination, the cruise ships are also taken out of service for decontamination, and return to sea with the same issue, so in terms of levels of decontamination, I'm thinking it is more about the level of detail put into the job.
Yes a cruise ship is much larger and should take days to properly clean, however, they are usually returned to service within hours or at least a day or two, most likely because of economic factors versus pure safety.
As mentioned, the level of risk is lower so......
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:58 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 111):
You can add the AF 320 in MAD to your list. I think if you are making a list, might as well make it known aircraft worldwide.

Regarding my Reply 109, can anyone help with tail numbers? I don't know how to get those. Am I alone in thinking that it might be useful to know which planes carried Ebola-infected passengers? I thought that this would be something that a.nutters would be especially good at.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:41 am

F9 Facebook page is reporting Barry Biffle is going to be on Fox New tonight (Thursday) with Megyn Kelly at 7:10 MDT 9:10 PM on the east coast. Roughly 30 minutes from now.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting CO953 (Reply 110):
MERS mortality rate = 41%.
Ebola mortality rate = 70%

Both are ugly. Ebola is worse. And apparently much more transmissible. So all-or-nothing viewpoints aren't helpful. We need to stomp this bugger out quickly and not let politics or complacency get in the way.

And more people will die from the flu in the USA this year, probably 30,000+ and flu is easier to catch.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
solarflyer22
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:33 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 115):
Quoting CO953 (Reply 110):MERS mortality rate = 41%.Ebola mortality rate = 70%Both are ugly. Ebola is worse. And apparently much more transmissible. So all-or-nothing viewpoints aren't helpful. We need to stomp this bugger out quickly and not let politics or complacency get in the way.

The mortality is higher than the flu but much lower than HIV. In the whole of human history there is a grand total of 1 person known to have developed resistance to it so its mortality rate is probably 99.99999%.

If you do the research, its clear it dies quickly on exposure to air. If you want to be concerned/panic (and I know you do) be concerned about a mosquito picking it up and spreading in the USA. Its related to malaria anyway and animals or insects in Africa are known to transmit it.

I don't think there is a pandemic emerging. Even the 21 day quarantine is excessive. Most people show symptoms in 7 days. You could probably wipe it out with 10 days of marshal law and general quarantine.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 116):
The mortality is higher than the flu but much lower than HIV. In the whole of human history there is a grand total of 1 person known to have developed resistance to it so its mortality rate is probably 99.99999%.

If you do the research, its clear it dies quickly on exposure to air. If you want to be concerned/panic (and I know you do) be concerned about a mosquito picking it up and spreading in the USA. Its related to malaria anyway and animals or insects in Africa are known to transmit it.

I don't think there is a pandemic emerging. Even the 21 day quarantine is excessive. Most people show symptoms in 7 days. You could probably wipe it out with 10 days of marshal law and general quarantine.

I am not sure why you saying you are quoting me with all that as those are NOT all my words, but I said nothing of the sort, and my post was about not panicking.

I do not want to be concerned. I am not concerned. I am more concerned with morons who protest vaccines and such.

My point was 10,000s of people will die in the USA from flu this year and no one cares (and many do not get the vaccine with some BS excuse).
So far 1 person has died of ebola in the US but people are ready to head to the bunkers.

I will bet the NFL, Ray Rice, and others who were in the news recently are thrilled about ebola. They have dropped from the front page!  
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
maxamuus
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:30 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 115):
And more people will die from the flu in the USA this year, probably 30,000+ and flu is easier to catch.

The WHO has publicly stated the Ebola epidemic is doubling in size every three weeks. They forecast 1.2 million cases by Jan 2015. Somehow i doubt the flu will be great killer this year.
 
maxamuus
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:39 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 116):
The mortality is higher than the flu but much lower than HIV. In the whole of human history there is a grand total of 1 person known to have developed resistance to it so its mortality rate is probably 99.99999%.

This certainly isnt the case in the US. I volunteer for a HIV charity and there are MANY MANY people on HIV cocktails of drugs that have undetectable levels of the virus in their bodies. Many have had the virus for 20+ years and are living normal lives. So unless you are referencing the 3rd world, HIV has a very low mortality rate if caught early and treated in the West.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 118):
The WHO has publicly stated the Ebola epidemic is doubling in size every three weeks. They forecast 1.2 million cases by Jan 2015. Somehow i doubt the flu will be great killer this year.

That is a failure of quarantine.

Where did you get that number? The WHO is predicting 10,000 cases per week:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1.../14/who-ebola-cases_n_5982078.html

That is 100,000 by my math which is far worse than the predictions I'm seeing:
For the last four weeks, there's been about 1,000 new cases per week — including suspected, confirmed and probable cases, he said, adding that the U.N. health agency is aiming to get 70 percent of cases isolated within two months to reverse the outbreak.

WHO increased its Ebola death toll tally to 4,447 people on Tuesday, nearly all of them in West Africa, from 8,914 cases.



Ebola will only kill that many if things are really allowed to run out of hand. And more sane WHO quotes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...panding_n_5982308.html?cps=gravity
"We anticipate that the number of cases occuring by that time will be 5,000 to 10,000," he told reporters from the WHO's Geneva headquarters. "It could be higher, it could lower but it's going to be in that ball park."

The total case numbers so far in the outbreak, "will go over 9,000 cases this week," he said, adding: "In certain areas were seeing disease coming down but that doesn't mean they're going to go to zero."


Scary. But Your number of 1.2 million is a number I haven't seen before. Link?


Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:07 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 118):
The WHO has publicly stated the Ebola epidemic is doubling in size every three weeks. They forecast 1.2 million cases by Jan 2015. Somehow i doubt the flu will be great killer this year.

Worldwide this year the flu has killed nearly 200,000 already. Ebola has a ways to go. I certainly hope and pray it does not get there but the sky is not falling.

There are so many varied views on what ebola will do no one knows yet. Some NGOs have it capped much lower than your numbers.

Though I will grant you there was a moderate "panic" for H1N1 strain of flu.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
maxamuus
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:17 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 120):
Scary. But Your number of 1.2 million is a number I haven't seen before. Link?
http://www.wnd.com/2014/09/1-2-milli...bola-deaths-projected-in-6-months/

Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...-11e4-8c24-487e92bc997b_story.html

[Edited 2014-10-16 20:21:03] The post says 1.4 million.

[Edited 2014-10-16 20:23:12]
 
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mariner
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:30 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 119):
So unless you are referencing the 3rd world, HIV has a very low mortality rate if caught early and treated in the West.

Now, yes. It was not always so and please don't downplay what it was.

Back in the 1980's it was a death sentence, and did take many of my friends. Then, it was believed by many that AIDS was unstoppable, which of course, eventually - eventually - wasn't true, as we are seeing now.

mariner
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:37 am

Quoting CO953 (Reply 109):
1. Duncan - Brussels Airlines Flt. ??? - Monrovia to Brussels - POSSIBLE (XXX?)
2. Duncan - United Airlines 951 - Brussels to Dulles - POSSIBLE (777?)
3. Duncan - United Airlines 822 - Dulles to Dallas/Fort Worth - POSSIBLE (A320?)
4. Vinson inbound - N220FR - CONFIRMED (A320) - "SANITIZED"
5. Vinson outbound N213FR - POSSIBLE (A320)
6. Vinson's mother?? and ?? - POSSIBLE >> airline?? - (XXX?)

So, what is possibility, that Duncan's or Vinson's blood, vomit, or poop, was left on the airplane??

According to the CDC, that's how the virus is transmitted.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
maxamuus
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:52 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 123):
Now, yes. It was not always so and please don't downplay what it was.

Back in the 1980's it was a death sentence, and did take many of my friends. Then, it was believed by many that AIDS was unstoppable, which of course, eventually - eventually - wasn't true, as we are seeing now.

mariner

Mariner, Please don't mistake my words. I too have lost friends from HIV/Aids.

In the 80's, it was "gay cancer" i think the term was. It killed many people. I am not disrespecting their memories in anyway.

I am just saying this is i a different beast all together. It doesn't discriminate and is a equal opportunity killer.
 
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mariner
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 125):
In the 80's, it was "gay cancer" i think the term was. It killed many people. I am not disrespecting their memories in anyway.

Western tunnel vision, perhaps?

Anyone who knew Africa didn't think of it as "gay cancer"- or gay anything - women were just as affected there, it was an equal opportunity plague.

Still, trying to drag this thread back to aviation, here's some stuff from Mr. Biffle at Frontier, including the fact that the aircraft is not flying:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...ed-cdc-guidance-before-ebola-plane

"Frontier: We need CDC guidance before Ebola plane can fly again

Frontier president Barry Biffle told The Denver Post on Thursday the plane will not be put back into service until the airline independently verifies the aircraft is safe for passengers."


It's a very interesting article, he details the process of what happened. He does not expect to see any serious downturn in bookings and the Teamsters are onside with what Frontier is doing:

"The union and the airline have been in constant contact since Wednesday morning, and Teamsters health and safety representatives are in the hangar, union representative Matthew Fazakas said.

"What I'm concerned about is the protection of our members. I'm satisfied with what Frontier is doing," Fazakas said. "They stepped up and are doing over and above what is being required."


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
maxamuus
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:00 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 126):
Western tunnel vision, perhaps?

No, my personal experience. I was sharing my memories on the subject as a young man.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:03 am

Obama administration officials said Friday that a Dallas health care worker who handled a lab specimen from an Ebola-infected man from Liberia who died of the disease was on a Caribbean cruise ship where she has self-quarantined and was being monitored for any signs of infection.

The government was working to return the woman and her husband to the U.S. before the ship completes its cruise.

The government of Belize reportedly released a statement on Thursday saying it had rejected a U.S. request to allow the cruise passenger to pass through the Philip S.W. Goldson International Airport, which services the Belizean capital.

Quote:
"While we remain in close contact with US officials we have maintained the position that when even the smallest doubt remains, we will ensure the health and safety of the Belizean people," said the statement.

And here in the United States, the CDC is insuring the health and safety of the American people."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-cr...onitored-after-lab-work-in-dallas/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:50 pm

20% off today only coincidence or not?
http://www.flyfrontier.com/promo-code/twenty
 
lakeeffect
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:08 pm

F9 sends out those %off coupon code deal emails every other week. I wouldn't read much into it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 128):
Obama administration officials said Friday that a Dallas health care worker who handled a lab specimen from an Ebola-infected man from Liberia who died of the disease was on a Caribbean cruise ship where she has self-quarantined and was being monitored for any signs of infection.

I know this isn't funny, but I am just chuckling inside. What's next, another nurse involved was immediately transferred to the Auto Immune Deficiency Treatment Center to care for those folks? One went to a Nuclear Scientist Retreat with their spouse? Silly suggestions, but why not?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:01 pm

800 passengers who flew on the planes Vinson flew now contacted by Frontier to self-monitor. The ripples continue to spread fron Duncan, Patient Zero.

Flight 2042 on Tuesday morning from Dallas to Cleveland
Flight 1104 on Tuesday afternoon from Cleveland to Fort Lauderdale
Flight 1105 on Tuesday afternoon from Fort Lauderdale to Cleveland
Flight 1101 on Tuesday night from Cleveland to Atlanta
Flight 1100 on Tuesday night from Atlanta to Cleveland

I'm thinking that this list is only for N220FR
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:00 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 129):

More tonight (Friday) on Fox News. F9 CEO and COO will appear scheduled for 9:30PM EST to discuss flying is safe on-board their aircraft. https://www.facebook.com/flyfrontier?fref=nf
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
solarflyer22
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 119):
This certainly isnt the case in the US. I volunteer for a HIV charity and there are MANY MANY people on HIV cocktails of drugs that have undetectable levels of the virus in their bodies. Many have had the virus for 20+ years and are living normal lives. So unless you are referencing the 3rd world, HIV has a very low mortality rate if caught early and treated in the West.

Yeah, I meant if you didn't have all the drugs and assuming nothing else get you beforehand (i.e. you get hit by a bus) then it would surely kill you. With Ebola, at least its a 50-50 shot.
 
hardalphaTi22
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:52 am

It looks like the Administration is finally getting its act together:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us...-obama-is-said-to-seethe.html?_r=0

Two Key points per the article:

"The difference between the public and private messages illustrates the dilemma Mr. Ebola faces on Obama— and a range of other national security issues — as he tries to galvanize the response to a public health scare while not adding to the sense of panic fueled by 24-hour cable TV and the nonstop Twitter chatter"

"On Friday, Mr. Obama took a step to both fix that response and reassure the public, naming Ron Klain, a former aide to Vice President Joseph R. Biden, to coordinate the government’s efforts on Ebola."
 
CO953
Posts: 523
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:45 am

Quoting hardalphaTi22 (Reply 135):
The difference between the public and private messages illustrates the dilemma Mr. Ebola faces on Obama

Err???

---I feel so relieved that a longtime Democrat political hack with no medical experience is now in control as the "Ebola Czar." This is the same guy who ran Al Gore's legal team suing Bush in Florida in 2000. He thought it would be considered fair by the country at large to cherry-pick Democrat counties until Gore won and then freeze the vote total and declare Gore the winner, instead of requesting a statewide recount, which would have been accepted as fair. The Supreme Court shot him down, and shot down the Fla. Supreme Court which tried to join him in the cramdown. Now he's the guy going to run the Ebola response. Of ALL the guys they could have picked.... Wow.
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:18 am

I am still very interested in the transmissibility by sneeze. If this is possible, then of course the close quarters aboard airliners look problematic. Here's a snip from a new Weekly Standard article I just found:

"There are four strains of the Ebola virus that have caused outbreaks in human populations. According to the New England Journal of Medicine, the current outbreak (known as Guinean EBOV, because it originated in Meliandou, Guinea, in late November 2013) is a separate clade “in a sister relationship with other known EBOV strains.” Meaning that this Ebola is related to, but genetically distinct from, previous known strains, and thus may have distinct mechanisms of transmission.

Not everyone is convinced that this Ebola isn’t airborne. Last month, the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy published an article arguing that the current Ebola has “unclear modes of transmission” and that “there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.”

Link is: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/six-reasons-panic_816387.html

I am particularly interested in the aerosol aspect. It would seem to have a major impact on the viability of air travel, and on share prices, if the flying public becomes sufficiently spooked, no matter their level of understanding. Even the personal-space difference between First Class and Economy could be important, if people don't learn to return to the salubrious old public-health habit of sneezing into a handkerchief (who carries those anymore?) or a sleeve. Almost everyone I see now in airports and airplanes lets sneezes fly now full force into the air in any convenient direction, with no attempt to contain the aerosol spray. Search your memory and you'll realize that I am calling it as it is. People let their sneezes fly free, nowadays, spoiled by many decades of epidemiological success.

I wonder how pilots are feeling about this - do they have a separate air filtration system?
 
greenair727
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:55 pm

^I too am interested how far that aerosol distance is as well... The experts do agree that its transferred through bodily fluids, even though they say 'not via the air'. But since a sneeze (and cough) contain bodily fluids, then logic dictates that air into which a sneeze or cough was placed is dangerous---maybe not cold winter air, if the virus dies quickly, but definitely warm (room temperature?), and humid air.

I think this will have a big hit on the industry. I know people who have already cancelled a vacation over this (and it was on Frontier, no less), and personally, any meeting I can do over the phone or skype instead of meeting face to face, I will do so.
 
Okie
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 136):
---I feel so relieved that a longtime Democrat political hack with no medical experience is now in control as the "Ebola Czar

  

Just a prime example of putting politics ahead of everything or have totally destroyed any credibility to the point that they cannot attract qualified people for the position.

I am not pushing the panic button on Ebola yet but the choice of a political hack for the position will carry zero weight for me on information coming from the government.
There just appears to be to much to unknown about the virus.


Okie
 
CO953
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:19 pm

So, as an exercise, let's think of a real-world passenger situation - my own:

I am away from home, and am supposed to fly back in the next week to ten days. I have not yet bought my ticket, due to shifting work events. My preferred itinerary is LAX-DFW-LFT, on an American 763 and an Embraer RJ145. Here's the thinking process:

1. If the most common incubation period is 21 days - Mr. Duncan supposedly was not symptomatic when he flew in. So let's be generous and discount the plane and those around him as posing any danger. Ms. Vinson, however, flying CLE-DFW with a 99.5F temperature, definitely was ill with Ebola. It's possible she also was during her earlier DFY-CLE leg, but again, let's be generous, and discount that earlier leg.

2. The aircraft on the second leg, N220FR, has been thoroughly cleaned, and also supposedly has not yet reentered service, as Frontier says they want clearer CDC guidance on clearing it for use.

3. Ms. Vinson flew on Oct. 13. Let's not be generous, and assume that Ms. Vinson sneezed without covering her face, close enough that at least on passenger beside her or in front of her breathed in a small quantity of virus. Let's also give the virus the benefit of the doubt of some degree of aerosol transmissibility through a forceful, uncovered sneeze, though not magical.

4. Let's assume the worst-case scenario that Ms. Vinson did manage to transmit the virus to at least one other person during her visit to Cleveland or on the plane, and that at least one person is now gestating the virus. Let's also assume, for caution's sake, that one of the several contemporaneous reports of people sick on aircraft worldwide does end up being an Ebola situation.

5. Timeline for the Vinson vector of the Duncan virus: 21 days from October 13 is November 3 (for 85-90% of cases). It would seem to me that we face a window of time until about the first week of November in which we truly do not know whether Ms. Vinson managed to spread the virus, until/if others start showing symptoms.

6. Take it back to my situation - do I fly, and what precautions do I take? What will be my realistic, thoughtful approach to getting back home?

7. If I fly before the first week of November, do I know whether someone sneezing on my flight has Ebola? No, I don't. After about the first week of November, the situation seems likely to clarify, for better or for worse.

8. Full caution = do not fly - drive back cross-country. No caution = fly as usual.

9. Middle ground = go ahead and fly during this unknown period until the first week of November, wear disposable gloves during my transfer at DFW, using restroom, etc., and do not touch my face. Wear disposable gloves on the plane, or be very careful about what I touch and when I wash my hands. Do not wear an N95 mask on the plane, but have one close at hand, already preformed to my face, ready to hold my breath and put it on immediately if someone sneezes in close proximity, until the sneeze has time to land/dissipate.

That's what I'll do.
 
greenair727
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:36 pm

^your timing above is predicated on you catching something from the Amber dissemination. People enter the US from West Africa every day who may have been exposed to someone and is now carrier themself. So you shouldn't using timing at all as factor in your method of prevention.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 140):
3. Ms. Vinson flew on Oct. 13. Let's not be generous, and assume that Ms. Vinson sneezed without covering her face, close enough that at least on passenger beside her or in front of her breathed in a small quantity of virus. Let's also give the virus the benefit of the doubt of some degree of aerosol transmissibility through a forceful, uncovered sneeze, though not magical.

To my knowledge, while it is theoretically possible that Ebola Virus (EV) can be transmitted by sneezing/coughing, neither I nor the CDC are aware of any cases that have been found to be transmitted in this manner. This is because coughing and sneezing are not typical symptoms of Ebola Virus Disease (EVD).

It is, of course, possible that this is an uncommon but (but not impossible) mode of transmission, but then again it is also possible that aliens landed six times in my back yard last night.

Throughout the course of illness, the viral load and shedding increase continually until the peak of the illness, after which the viral load and shedding decrease. So early in the illness, it's unlikely that even someone sitting next to her would contact virus.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:13 am

An A320 that had earlier transported an Ebola patient is being kept out of service for "a little while longer":

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-out-of-caution-over-ebola-404983/
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:14 am

The Doctor in NY that had been treating Ebola patients in W. Africa, flew into JFK earlier this week.

They haven't mentioned the airline/flight #.

I would like them to confirm that the DR. was screened when he came into JFK. That screening is supposed to be going on now.

[Edited 2014-10-23 20:15:35]
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:36 pm

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 144):
I would like them to confirm that the DR. was screened when he came into JFK. That screening is supposed to be going on now.

The CDC Twitter Account has confirmed that the Dr. did go through enhanced screening upon his arrival at JFK.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014...leared-enhanced-airport-screening/
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:42 am

The Govs. of NY & NJ have come together to put in a mandatory quarantine for those coming into their airports, that have had contact with Ebola patients.

That, regardless of what the CDC / Govt. protocols recommend.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...bola-case-nyc-quarantined-26416922
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
CO953
Posts: 523
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 146):
The Govs. of NY & NJ have come together to put in a mandatory quarantine for those coming into their airports, that have had contact with Ebola patients.

That, regardless of what the CDC / Govt. protocols recommend.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...bola-case-nyc-quarantined-26416922

So now that Govs. Christie and Cuomo have responded to public outrage over Dr. Spencer's Brooklyn wanderings, this blacklisting at Newark and JFK means that two out of the five screening airports will become "no-go" destinations for anyone coming from west Africa, exposed to Ebola patients, wishing to avoid a 21-day quarantine. Just like squeezing a balloon, the logical result would now be an increase in west-Africa passengers arriving at Atlanta, Dulles and Chicago. It will be interesting to see if/how long before public pressure drags the corresponding governors into following suit - thereby partially instituting the de-facto flight stoppage demanded by what polling shows to be a majority of the public, but rejected by the CDC and Obama. Though the language specifies quarantining those who've been in contact with Ebola patients, that pool is potentially quite large, and wouldn't apply just to medical personnel. I wonder if this quarantine will be based upon self-reporting (which may or may not be honest), or if there will be some sort of check on the employment of the passenger? I'm curious how this will work.
 
CO953
Posts: 523
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:06 pm

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/cdc-adm...-from-a-sneeze-could-spread-ebola/

As was said on another earlier thread, droplet transmission is possible. The CDC is now quietly admitting that. So it would seem, as with other diseases, prudent to be very careful what and how one touches in an airplane. I'm not liking the idea of an Ebola passenger sneezing droplets onto surfaces that could live awhile. I'm guessing that the tray table would be the prime offender, aside from someone sneezing directly in your face.

Here's a clip from the above-linked article:

"Ebola is a lot easier to catch than health officials have admitted — and can be contracted by contact with a doorknob contaminated by a sneeze from an infected person an hour or more before, experts told The Post Tuesday.

“If you are sniffling and sneezing, you produce microorganisms that can get on stuff in a room. If people touch them, they could be” infected, said Dr. Meryl Nass, of the Institute for Public Accuracy in Washington, DC.

Nass pointed to a poster the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention quietly released on its Web site saying the deadly virus can be spread through “droplets.”"
 
26point2
Topic Author
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RE: 2nd Dallas Ebola Patient Flew F9 Day Prior

Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting CO953 (Reply 148):

NY Post? FOX " news" has much better Ebola coverage if you like crap news. And you don't have to read!

[Edited 2014-10-30 17:38:13]

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