What are some potential expansion cities for FI in the U.S. and Canada? FI receives the 737 MAX 8 and 9 beginning in 2018, so that'll help them expand to more destinations.

To me FI seems like an airline that markets and attracts outdoors, adventurous, young adult type people, as well as to markets that have similar demographics . Also KEF is becoming a popular stop over to the rest of Europe. Here are the cities I came up with...

YYC, SFO, SLC, BTV, CMH, and YUL

As a Montraler I'm waiting for Icelandair for a long time because they are already serving Halifax for a number of years.
I'm not a youg adult anymore but I'm be wiiling to go to Iceland anytime.

I am actually surprised they haven't looked at DFW. I had always assumed it was a range issue, but their new PDX flight is only 4 miles shorter than a KEF-DFW route according to GC Mapper. It would be a no brainer filling a 75 several times a week on a summer seasonal basis from DFW. Iceland has definitely hit the radar here as a destination on its own accord - and the connections on to continental Europe would easily fill the rest of the plane. There are hoards of college kids that come home to the DFW area for the summer who would jump all over it.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter): SFO,

Tried and cancelled due the costs of running a single equipment type (767). Their 757's don't have the legs KEF-SFO.

My bet is Chicago.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter): YUL

Quoting yenne09 (Reply 1): As a Montraler I'm waiting for Icelandair for a long time

It is unbelievable that FI hasn't entered the YUL market yet. Barring their service to YHZ, it would be their shortest North American flight, keeping the operating costs down, and tapping into a large transatlantic market.

Quoting LaneDFW (Reply 2): I am actually surprised they haven't looked at DFW

Although doable, that would be the longest TATL flight for FI, meaning higher costs of operations.

Another thing to consider is gate space at KEF. I understand they will expand the terminal building in the coming years, something they will need to accomplish in order to add more flights to North America that are timed well for European connections. A big part of their business is continuing the growth of their hub model at KEF. If all those North american flights cant connect well to the European flights due to gate issues, FI will be limited in terms of growth.

Thenoflyzone

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter): YYC, SFO, SLC, BTV, CMH, and YUL

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4): It is unbelievable that FI hasn't entered the YUL market yet.

BTV is waaay too close to YUL and is far too small a market. YUL is coming, it's only a matter of time.

Well FI started serving YEG last year and the route has proven a success. They saw an opportunity there with the small AC LHR service and nothing else of real note.

I don't think they'd venture into YYC due to the sheer number of other flights YYC-Europe:

-AC to LHR and FRA
-BA to LHR
-KL to AMS
-Condor seasonal to FRA
-Air Transat with many seasonal and year round flights to the UK, France, and Germany

With WS getting 763's next year (utilizing them for Alberta-Hawaii flights first) they will no doubt be looking at YYC-Europe options as they expand that fleet.

So is there room for FI to come in and carve a living out of YYC?

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4): It is unbelievable that FI hasn't entered the YUL market yet.

I think you have to look at markets they have entered to understand why.

While Iceland is a beautiful place worthy of a visit, that is not really what FI is selling. Their main goal is North America to Europe. Through a superb hub, they are slowly building a huge network. But ... they are working on the "underserved" markets presently, that they feel a low yield passenger will notice.

Look at YEG or YHZ, when FI entered the market, there was only one transatlantic flight a day. And in both of those cases it was against AC, who does not have good connections in LHR to Europe. Even YVR makes sense, AC is selling virtually only O&D to LHR, and I'll bet FI is willing to undercut BA to the rest of Europe.

The only exceptions would be NYC, BOS, YYZ, etc, whereby there is a strong enough O&D market to Iceland to warrant competition.

So looking at YUL ... it certainly isn't underserved to Europe, and do you really think there is a strong O&D market to make up for the competition? If you want to visit Iceland ... and you should, it's an amazing place ... it would probably easiest just to jump on a flight to YHZ (a good chance to try Porter) and go from there.

I think that with the 737 MAX's (which have even less range capability than the 752's) most of what we'll see is east coast.
The first candidate that screams for them is MKE.

Maybe would see ORD and YUL(though competition is massive).

Other capable airports with limited competition are IND, PIT, BWI, YOW.
BUF could be an interesting alt to YYZ.

Finally, BDL, CLE and YQC are steals for FI to pocket, that the MAX is the perfect sized craft for.

Now if only FI would get their heads straight and codeshare with someone in North America!

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8): Now if only FI would get their heads straight and codeshare with someone in North America!

What happened with FI and AS? It seemed like a perfect partnership when they started serving SEA. AS added FI to their FF Mileage Plan, but they two divorced in a fairly short time. What was that all about?

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): While Iceland is a beautiful place worthy of a visit, that is not really what FI is selling. Their main goal is North America to Europe. Through a superb hub, they are slowly building a huge network. But ... they are working on the "underserved" markets presently, that they feel a low yield passenger will notice.

Yes, they are definitely the masters of selling European connections, without question. But they also at good at promoting their country, too, as they offer a free stopover in KEF. It doesn't appear that many people are taking them up on that offer, though.

I expect YWG will be added in the coming years. It's the largest Canadian city without TA service, and home to the world's largest Icelandic diaspora outside Iceland.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): Their main goal is North America to Europe. Through a superb hub, they are slowly building a huge network. But ... they are working on the "underserved" markets presently, that they feel a low yield passenger will notice.

This sums up nicely exactly what FI is doing.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter): YYC, SFO, SLC, BTV, CMH, and YUL

IAH. It appears to meet the criteria. The question is whether they could compete with the other flags.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8): I think that with the 737 MAX's (which have even less range capability than the 752's) most of what we'll see is east coast. The first candidate that screams for them is MKE ...Other capable airports with limited competition are IND, PIT, BWI, YOW ... Finally, BDL, CLE and YQC are steals

"Limited competition" is exactly what Herr Mueller at Aer Lingus specified for any new North American cities that the Irish are considering. Actually I believe "no competition" was what Mueller said in the last earnings conference call. The smaller European airlines would make a much bigger splash and get tons of free publicity in any of the cities you cite rather than in the larger but more crowded markets.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9): What happened with FI and AS

they still offer thru intlerine pricing at competetive rates so they do get lots of connnections thru Seatte and starting next year thru Portland!

RDU has been trying to attract a second TATL carrier. FI might not quite be what they're looking for, but could be the best they can do.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 11):

I asked about this one a while back, too... we visited the lake towns north of Winnipeg and it seemed like almost everybody was Icelandic. I was told there is not enough of a business market to make it sell, but if you're talking about places like BUF as viable, YWG seems like an obvious hole.

Quoting jetpixx (Reply 15): RDU has been trying to attract a second TATL carrier. FI might not quite be what they're looking for, but could be the best they can do.

I had a similar thought. Aside from seasonal Orlando service, FI doesn't serve any airport south of IAD, and there must be a few candidates for them in the Southeast. There must be some viable options there. Aside from RDU, what about places like MEM, BNA, ORF, RIC, BHM, JAX... Could any of those work out?

I love how this topic repeats itself every month or every other month.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): While Iceland is a beautiful place worthy of a visit, that is not really what FI is selling. Their main goal is North America to Europe.

Quoting freshside3 (Reply 10): they offer a free stopover in KEF. It doesn't appear that many people are taking them up on that offer, though.

Not entirely true anymore. Icelandair and the numerous offices in Iceland are pushing Iceland o&d and stopovers. Numbers have seen tremendous growth. Slow season events such as northern lights, New Year's, and Airwaves have helped boost the numbers.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): they are working on the "underserved" markets presently, that they feel a low yield passenger will notice.

True - Icelandair's big criteria for new cities
1. Higher chance of origin & destination and stopover travelers
2. Markets with an active amount of 'last minute travelers'

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8): Maybe would see ORD and YUL(though competition is massive).

Icelandair has looked at Chicago a few times. The official word from them is: 'we should have gone when we had a chance but now we can't get the times we want.' Word from those on here involved at O'Hare: 'b.s.' so, make of it what you will. When it comes to Chicago, I'm most surprised United or even American hasn't gone summer service from O'Hare to Keflavik.

when I asked about Montreal, it was explained to me it's believed right now the market there is too thin in the summer and then in the winter everyone travels - but they go to Florida or Cuba, etc.

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 14): they still offer thru intlerine pricing at competetive rates so they do get lots of connnections thru Seatte and starting next year thru Portland!

Part of adding Portland was to allow for additional west coast through connections from Los Angeles and San Francisco.



Right now for Icelandair -
1. Keflavik needs growth to support oncoming capacity. There are short term plans but no long-term envisioned projects at the moment.
2. A shift in bookings with a substantial increase in "last minute" bookings, especially with their hotel division, than in recent years.
3. Big social media push this fall for stopover travel - basically the campaign is only costing them manpower at the offices.
4. Bookings remain in line with capacity growth.
5. Iceland domestic air travel is still down - still hurting from 2008. This includes Greenland. Effort is being made to promote Iceland domestic flights to tourists.
6. Traffic made recovery after spring/summer labor disputes. Nearly 100,000 more passengers carried in Q2 of this year than in Q2 of last year.
7. First half of this year- traffic up roughly 15% from last year, revenue up roughly 11% from last year.
8. Iceland Airwaves - one of the biggest promoters in off season travel for the island, is once again a sell out. Continues to grow but organizers trying to keep the size of the festival "capped" at a certain amount of tickets. Possible festival could expand another day or two and perhaps "off shoot" festivals could happen in other cities.

GLA needs to go daily now with his big ongoing increases in pax to connect with all these TA markets

BOS could have problems with WOW air coming in in summer 2015 (it is cheaper).WOW flies to alot of destenations in Europe that Icelandair doesnt so there is competion soon on the BOS-KEF.

RDU could use another international airline. And icelandair could do well with service to the top 30 airports east of the Mississippi....

They could make Their hub at nice transit connecting hub..

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 20): BOS could have problems with WOW air coming in in summer 2015

Im not that confident in WOW. Not sure what it is, but would have more confidence in FI than WOW. Ill say "WOW" if theyre still about in 5 years

Haven't they added alot of summer seasonal north American destinations, so what goes on in the winter? As far as I'm aware, SFB is the only North American winter seasonal destination. Any chance they start a winter/spring seasonal flight to TPA/PIE?

One would think ORD or a Chicagoland plus airport would be in the mix

I have flown FI several times and have a flight booked in November. Their service is very good and I like the fact you can spend a couple of days there with no increase in the cost of your ticket as you connect coming back from Europe. They have become my number one choice for travel to Europe because their prices are very competitive and the service is better than the US airlines I normally fly.

l101fan

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 17): ORF, RIC

While I would    for this to happen, we may be too close to IAD for that to work. Nearly everyone I know locally that has flown to Europe has driven to IAD instead of connecting from ORF/PHF/RIC. Not to say that nobody begins their international trips from a local airport, but IAD's proximity is attractive to a lot of people. I'm personally planning a trip to LHR and it's a 99% chance I'm going to drive to IAD because it's about $600 less than a connection out of ORF.

I think RDU, CMH, PIT, IND, BDL, and CLE would all be good choices were FI, especially on a 738 or 739, good capacity.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4): Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter): YUL Quoting yenne09 (Reply 1): As a Montraler I'm waiting for Icelandair for a long time It is unbelievable that FI hasn't entered the YUL market yet. Barring their service to YHZ, it would be their shortest North American flight, keeping the operating costs down, and tapping into a large transatlantic market.

I think FI is best-advised to avoid markets like YUL where there's already so much transatlantic competition. They should look at markets like YWG, which hasn't had any direct Europe service for years, or possibly YOW which is a strong market but only has 2 daily AC nonstops to LHR and FRA, although it's also close to YUL.

Quoting tom11 (Reply 27): I think RDU, CMH, PIT, IND, BDL, and CLE would all be good choices were FI, especially on a 738 or 739, good capacity.

Could a 737 even make it to any of these cities from KEF? Maybe BDL, but IND and RDU are both about 2600nm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8): Other capable airports with limited competition are IND, PIT, BWI, YOW.

But FI left BWI for IAD.

Wait. That's not completely true. When BMI ran out of available aircraft for IAD-MAN, FI was wet-leased to fill in until BMI dropped the service.

I always wondered if MDW would be a possible option Icelandair. They seem to enter airports/markets with limited or no transatlantic service. Although MDW serves almost the same demographic as ORD, Icelandair's service to Midway would stand out as being the only intercontinental service, therefore, attracting people. At ORD it might be overshadowed by the plethora of European airlines. I know Northwest and ATA flew 757s to MDW so it shouldn't pose a problem?

Quoting vatveng (Reply 29): Could a 737 even make it to any of these cities from KEF? Maybe BDL, but IND and RDU are both about 2600nm

With the ~500nm range boost (which I'd say translates to about 500 Statute miles in practice) I think that the MAX (At least the MAX 8, not sure about MAX 9) should be able to do runs around 3100 miles at most accounting for the headwinds.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 32): With the ~500nm range boost (which I'd say translates to about 500 Statute miles in practice) I think that the MAX (At least the MAX 8, not sure about MAX 9) should be able to do runs around 3100 miles at most accounting for the headwinds.

Well that sucks for STL at 3201 per great circle mapper. I believe someone on here stated that STL is the largest U.S. market, or at least one of the top 3 without any service to Europe. That would leave the 757, but that might be too much aircraft.

FI and Iceland should push for pre-clearance at KEF, if they aren't already.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7): While Iceland is a beautiful place worthy of a visit, that is not really what FI is selling. Their main goal is North America to Europe. Through a superb hub, they are slowly building a huge network. But ... they are working on the "underserved" markets presently, that they feel a low yield passenger will notice.

Yes, plus in markets where they face competition (IAD, BOS, DEN) they sell by offering twice the amount of free luggage. Surprisingly enough this attracts a lot of travelers. No idea why so many people want/need to travel with 46kg (102lb).

Having dealt with them a couple times and having been close to flip due to their rude crew more than once I will avoid them if possible.

Quoting TPAfan (Reply 23):

The summer seasonal destinations to NA are MSP, YHZ, ANC and YVR.

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 34):

Sometimes people get what they deserve and customers from a large European
country tend to be very pushy...

I'm surprised PHL hasn't been mentioned so far. It would be nice to see another international carrier at PHL. Ever since AF left the only European carriers are LH and BA. Also with all the universities in SE Pennsylvania and Philadelphia one would think FI would want a piece of the student pie.

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 35): The summer seasonal destinations to NA are MSP, YHZ, ANC and YVR.

...and PDX

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3): Tried and cancelled due the costs of running a single equipment type (767). Their 757's don't have the legs KEF-SFO.

I think they could make SFO work again with a 763 or 788 IF they get their heads straight and escalate one of their interline agreements to codesharing already, or rather, codeshare with VX (and B6 while they're at it)! Interline is awkward and I don't think it'll cut it.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3): My bet is Chicago.

Mine too and maybe MIA or FLL. Is FI state owned?

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 39): Mine too and maybe MIA or FLL

Heard rumors of both. Seems quite interesting.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 39): Is FI state owned?

No.

According to Icelandic news media, moving from SFB to MCO in W15 and increasing frequency to 4x weekly.

Regarding the FI expansion in the USA.

FI will go for Airports with limited connection to Europe and not enough traffic possibility to tempt the big Guys.

For FI one of the important considerations is also belly freight for there B757, so look at areas were fresh fish from Iceland would be appreciated, spare parts for fish processing machinery would be needed, or were you would find freight on the way to Iceland and northern Europe.

We will see the B757 for many more years in use with FI. FI is building up its training facility for the B757 in Iceland, that includes buying and setting up a new modern B757 simulator and starting to use it in January 2015.

Regarding the B737MAX and the B787-8 on order, I think FI is just hedging its bets. FI has a history of buying new Boeing frames, 15 B737-800, and than leasing them out. If the B737MAX will be used by FI, I see them mainly on the European trips and the shorter trips to the east coast of North America. Again freight will be an issue, the B737-300/400 were retired and replaced with more B757 at the time mainly due to the limited belly cargo possibilities. Leaving several tons of fresh fish behind due to stronger than anticipated westerly winds can mean quite a bother and loss of revenue.

[Edited 2014-10-19 05:16:09]

I think ATL should be a possibility for Fi. Large market, high fares, limited competition.

Montreal seems like a given market for them to serve with the 757 at first glance. The only problem might be the huge numbers of seats to Europe and the low fares on Air Transat? I think there are still enough of the backpacker types to make it work.



BTV is an interesting very outside the box idea. Porter flies to BTV so they have some process for customs. Alot of people within 2-3 hour drive which i think people are willing to do in the summer for long trip to Europe if they can save alot. Alot of backpacker type college people in NY-VT-NH-PQ all within driving distance i could surprisingly see this work in the summer.

Would the Canadians save enough in taxes to make the trip worth it? I am not sure how those high Canadian flying taxes work to Europe if theres a real advantage flying out of the US. You routinely see Canadians pile the kids in the mini van and drive to places like BTV to fly to florida because they save so much on taxes per person or drive to EWR/JFK because they are saving like $250 a ticket to fly to Europe/TLV/India so the trip in the family mini van becomes easily worth it. Could BTV work to Europe, at first thought sounds crazy but the people in the area and how many live not that far makes it seem almost possible. I could actually see BTV working in summer only and im sure the airport would totally let them fly 2 months out of the year, porter only flies seasonally to toronto and has been welcomed with open arms.

I would love to see KEF-IAH, on ANY airline, but FI would be more awesome. It's always nice to see a new foreign flag carrier in IAH but a foreign 757 takes the cake! I love UA and the 75' , but seeing the same thing gets boring after a while!

Plus, KEF-IAH is shorter than EWR-TXL at 3863 vs 3980 miles respectively.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 44): Would the Canadians save enough in taxes to make the trip worth it? I am not sure how those high Canadian flying taxes work to Europe if theres a real advantage flying out of the US. You routinely see Canadians pile the kids in the mini van and drive to places like BTV to fly to florida because they save so much on taxes per person or drive to EWR/JFK because they are saving like $250 a ticket

No, Canadians wouldn't save enough. The primary attaction of Bellingham/BTV, etc. flights for U.S. destinations & departures is the elimination of both U.S. and Canadian border & inspection taxes. USA-Europe (from a tax & fee point of view) isn't inherently cheaper than Canada-Europe.

Per Matrix, taxes and airport fees BOS-CDG-BOS = $131. Same YUL-CDG-YUL = CDN $130.45

Quoting S75752 (Reply 38): I think they could make SFO work again with a 763 or 788 IF they get their heads straight and escalate one of their interline agreements to codesharing already, or rather, codeshare with VX

Forgive me, but how would a VX interline do much for an FI SFO flight? Lots of VX destinations from SFO are east and better served by other FI North American gateways. There's surely some demand for LAX-SFO-KEF, but LAX has lots of carriers and LAX-SFO-KEF-Continental Europe would be ridiculous.

What about TPA? Sure it's relatively close to MCO/SFB, but it's largely untapped in terms of European service, especially when compared to Orlando and the So. Florida airports. WK seems to be doing fine even after the incentives for them have run dry, in fact even increasing service. The beaches in the Winter alone should make it fairly popular for European tourists and vice versa for the Summer when Floridians wants to escape the heat can seek Iceland.

[Edited 2014-10-19 12:41:11]

Not sure if the aircraft have the legs for the flight, but a 3-4x weekly flight to MSY would likely do well since there is no other competition to Europe. It would be great to see either FI or DE make a splash here.