Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24964
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:51 am

Air India 787 operating AI123 was intercepted over Italy by two Eurofighter Typhoons on Oct. 16th after losing radio contact with the air traffic controllers southeast of Rome.


Air India Boeing 787 Dreamliner loses radio contact gets intercepted by Italian Typhoons
http://theaviationist.com/2014/10/17/b787-intercepted-typhoon/

=


Man whats going on with spate of Indian airlines losing radio contact this year?

AI going to blame Boeing for this?  
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:55 am

What does "losing contact" mean exactly? Okay, I know what it means but my question is how does it happen? Do the radios stop working? The flight deck crew falls asleep? What are the likely scenarios for something like this?

I mean no criticism of AI. I just want to know what is the process for this to happen.
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:05 am

italy is in heightened security due to the Europe Asian forum. European and asian top leaders are attending, including Putin and Ukrainian president who are officially at war.
 
P206
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:30 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:07 am

The crew misheard the wright frequency perhaps and/or wrong turn on the knob? It happened before  .

[Edited 2014-10-17 22:11:40]
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 903
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:10 am

Hope the pilots weren't having a snooze at the controls   
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
Ronaldo747
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:58 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:55 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
AI going to blame Boeing for this?

This particular aircraft is the next one to part out.  
 
Dogbreath
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:49 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
What does "losing contact" mean exactly?

VHF radio is limited to line of sight range. Therefore as the aircraft moves away from the transmitter a frequency change, at a predetermined range to the next sector will be required to maintain continuous radio contact. This range can be affected by factors such as terrain, transmitter power, to name a few.
Loss of Comms happens quite often, but there are procedures in place to prevent this from advancing to a PLOC (Prolonged Loss of Comms), where military jets are sent out to intercept the aircraft.
All commercial jets carry two or three sets of VHF radios. In all of the Airlines I've flown for, VHF1 is set to the operating frequency, VHF2 is set to 121.5 (Guard), and VHF3 is set to ACARS. Of course if one radio should become unserviceable, there is no reduction of radio comms as the radio's can be used as required.
If a Loss of Comms occurs (usually happens due to ATC failing to hand you on to the next sector, flightcrew failing to hear the handover, or flightcrew receiving or hearing an incorrect frequency), this is 99% of the time sorted by the crew receiving a call on 121.5 by either another aircraft or an ATC agency in the area of the errant aircraft, and VHF communication reconnected.
PLOC - is usually the result of flightcrew failing to monitor their radios or failing to monitor 121.5. Loss of all radio's is unlikely. Whatever the reason it shouldn't happen.
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
theaviator380
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:57 am

When people will stop asking this boring question time and again ? 'will they blame Boeing for this''? really getting silly.
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2537
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 7):

I guess when AI grows up and takes responsibility for their own screw ups and stops trying to push the blame to Boeing and/or extort money from them, then I think the jokes will stop over time.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
theaviator380
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:44 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:11 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 8):

What's point in making joke tho? do you think they sound funny anymore?
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8594
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:04 am

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 7):
When people will stop asking this boring question time and again ? 'will they blame Boeing for this''? really getting silly.

When India becomes 100% Airbus territory and all the leasing is from Chinese. Unfortunately it is heading that way.
All posts are just opinions.
 
DexSwart
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 9):

Pretty funny to me.

Obviously pretty funny to people who make the joke.

Non issue.

But seriously, if they think they mis heard the frequency (which is quite possible) why didn't they ask for it to be repeated?
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
User avatar
3rdGen
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:19 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:51 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 8):
I guess when AI grows up and takes responsibility for their own screw ups and stops trying to push the blame to Boeing

What were those screw ups again? And were they confirmed to be AIs fault?
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:33 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 7):

Gee, lighten up buddy, get a sense of humor!
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
peterjohns
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:49 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:04 pm

If you really want to know what goes on- then I can help you.
The usual reason for having a lost COM is that the Crew dialled in the wrong figures.
Since 8.33 spacing this happens very frequently- if not on a daily basis.
If the Crew do not notice, or have lost the previous frequ. then they are momentarily "lost" and lost COM.

We as controllers -have to report all lost Coms- to the senior on Duty , who relays the "happening " to the Air Defence, who again decide, if- or if not , they scramble the two fighters standing on alert for excact this reason.

In every case I have handled in the past - which are quite a few- the Pilot notices something is wrong latest when they request descend and nobody answers!!

I have had a lot of lost Coms, but so far no intercept by the military. But as you see, it does happen.

Of course all this BS is courtesy of 9/11.
 
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:18 pm

I thought the AI plane may have had parts of the plane falling off it due the airlines crappy reputation and their insistence that Boeing compensate them every time the toilet won't flush.

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 7):

When people will stop asking this boring question time and again ? 'will they blame Boeing for this''? really getting silly.

When AI grows up and takes responsibility for their own actions. I am sure it will end up being their fault as usual.

I love to bash AI when it is the truth.

My question is what is wrong with AI that they seem to be the only airline having all these problems with their aircraft? Also why is it AI that seems to come up with unique problems?
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 9):
What's point in making joke tho? do you think they sound funny anymore?

I find it amusing. The notion that AI takes nearly brand new airplanes and cannibalizes them for parts should be fodder for jokes.
PHX based
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:31 pm

Quoting 777stl (Reply 16):
Quoting theaviator380 (Reply 9):What's point in making joke tho? do you think they sound funny anymore?
I find it amusing. The notion that AI takes nearly brand new airplanes and cannibalizes them for parts should be fodder for jokes.

It would be funny if it was QR, EY or EK, whose countries are flushed with money, but in a country where poverty is so extreme and so rampant, seeing how an airline that woulndn't survive a day in a free economy uses government money to subsidize their incompetence is a slap in the face.
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:23 pm

Thank you very much Dogbreath and peterjohns. I don´t understand why others have made this thread a rabid debate about Air India when this situation happens to every airline. No too long ago two Northwest pilots were fired for this.

Anyway, I go my answer. Thanks again.

[Edited 2014-10-18 11:36:54]
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4983
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:34 pm

What is amazing to me is the number if times it seems AI and Indian airlines like the double Jet Airways loss of contact incidents are in the news. Overall news coming out of these companies is negative things.

In general I tend to have the view if there is smoke, there might be fire, so use caution.
mercure f-wtcc
 
peterjohns
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:49 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 19):

Out of experience I can´t say that one airline is prone to misdialing their R/T freq. more than others.
It may be that short haul get "lost" more often- but that might be because they have far more freq. changes throughout any given period then others.
Also spanish speaking crews tend to have more difficulties speaking english then for instance american crews...

But it is difficult if you have 150-200 a/c a day you send to one three one decimal three (131.3) and they end up at 131.13
and vice versa. Happens EVERY day.

So I don´t know about indian crews being more prone to these mistakes- I can´t back that one up.
 
CaptCosslett
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:03 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 4):

Or a fight
  
 
DexSwart
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 17):

I assure you, AI doesnt dwell in india's poverty. There is also a lot of money in India. And if an airline can afford brand new very expensive aircraft, then talking about that country's financial situation seems a bit... Off.

Look at ET, arguably a poorer country than India. And yet, they seem to be doing swimmingly.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:24 pm

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 22):
Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 17):

I assure you, AI doesnt dwell in india's poverty. There is also a lot of money in India. And if an airline can afford brand new very expensive aircraft, then talking about that country's financial situation seems a bit... Off.

Look at ET, arguably a poorer country than India. And yet, they seem to be doing swimmingly.

If AI was such a sound investment, then why wouldn't those rich Indian entrepreneurs that you mentioned invest a dime in it?

Again, if it was a private business, they could burn their money for what I care. But being a government airline,it is unethical that they dilapidate resources like that.

ET has had a totally different attitude, with their 787 back in service in less than 6 months after suffering a major fire in the fuselage, while the AI 787 was grounded for longer than that for a broken wind shield.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8594
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:32 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 15):
I thought the AI plane may have had parts of the plane falling off it due the airlines crappy reputation and their insistence that Boeing compensate them every time the toilet won't flush.

Do you have any proof Boeing paid any compensation so far?

The only AI plane fell off from sky is due to sloppy aviation security of certain nation, otherwise it has excellent safety record for a 82 year old airline.

When VT-ALT was hit by a truck at EWR AI took 3 months to fix it. When VT-ALM had a diversion to YYZ, AI asked crew to stay with the plane until it was repaired. It was fixed in less than two weeks.

[Edited 2014-10-18 15:40:44]
All posts are just opinions.
 
VTORD
Posts: 750
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 23):
If AI was such a sound investment, then why wouldn't those rich Indian entrepreneurs that you mentioned invest a dime in it?

Apart from the fact that AI is not really a sound investment at this time, there is the small matter of policy. AI is a Govenment of India enterprise which means, the rich Indian entrepreneurs cannot just invest in it. The Indian parliament will have to permit the GoI to divest Air India before any private business can invest. Even the new FDI policy excludes Air India I think.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8594
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Air India 787 Over Italy Intercepted By Air Force

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:15 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 23):
while the AI 787 was grounded for longer than that for a broken wind shield.

Again you have no evidence other than tabloid news who wine and dine with private carriers. AI cannot break Non-Disclosure Agreement with Boeing to tell even if something really bad with a plane. FAA and DGCA have FOIA and RTI restrictions built in to their agreement when it comes to releasing private information of any entity of the other country.

BTW, when was the last time an AI plane lost contact over Europe. One time when transponder failed it was over Afghanistan, it returned to Delhi without entering European Airspace to avoid such incident. LHR-DEL flight with failed transponder over Germany declared emergency and returned to London.

[Edited 2014-10-18 17:16:24]
All posts are just opinions.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos