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Bambel
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 194):

First question is, how did you get there? Very few People except the Airport ranger who looks after the rabbit Population have that Chance.

It's quite easy to get there http://goo.gl/maps/Dwg1H by bicycle. From my place it's a 20 min ride. FRA is a very spotter-friendly place, there are official platforms and it's no problem to surround the whole area by feet or bike. Ok, by feet you do nothing else on that day  

BTW: It's interesting to see how the runway was cut into the existing net of gravel paths. Also the wetland area that had to be protected is visible. I remember that time… protests ended with the death of two policemen and protest against the north-west runway was non existing in comparison. Or more in court and back rooms and media and …

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 194):
I was once on a tour for "Pro FRA" members and they let us off the bus at that place and I cannot recall hearing anything except the growth of the grass. Of course when a Jet took off on the 18 that overflight can be noticed.

A few weeks ago i made an otherwise useless video and now uploaded it on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbX4_isGHo

Interesting part is around 0:10

b.
 
galleypower
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:40 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 197):
Wings has nothing to do with the 5* Airline, LH classic from FRA and MUC will be the 5* Airline, Wings will be competetive on non hub operations.

What do I miss?? If it has nothing to do with LH, why should it be the base for the 5* carrier? There wont be any feeding into the classic hubs.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 197):
If I look at BA, they have vacated the provinces completely. You may be able to do that in the UK whoch is London and then a whole lot of nothing till BHX Comes in and then MAN. You cannot do that in polycentric Germany and that is exactly why the LH concept is right.

If you cannot do that in Germany, then why should they look at IAG and what is to learn from their winning side? If you give up a market for 3 flights a day from MAN to DXB I wonder if IAG is the benchmark to look at.

[Edited 2015-01-20 09:50:55]
 
uberflieger
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting Bambel (Reply 193):
Anybody know what i mean and knows something?

Sorry dude, can't help you out, but wanted to say thanks for your interesting contribution. You sure peaked my interest and your favorite spotting hideaway may be about to get a little busier  

[Edited 2015-01-20 10:45:26]
 
aviationaware
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting galleypower (Reply 199):
If you give up a market for 3 flights a day from MAN to DXB I wonder if IAG is the benchmark to look at.

You do realize that there is no way IAG could catch that traffic with direct flights? The 3 flights to Dubai are filled with a handful passengers each to a a large number of different destinations, and it doesn't make sense for BA to operate flights for a handful of passengers.
IAG, like any other airline, has access to excellent data on passenger flows. If there were flows large enough to warrant a number of direct flights from MAN, they would probably do it.
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:57 am

Quoting Bambel (Reply 198):

It's quite easy to get there http://goo.gl/maps/Dwg1H by bicycle. From my place it's a 20 min ride. FRA is a very spotter-friendly place, there are official platforms and it's no problem to surround the whole area by feet or bike. Ok, by feet you do nothing else on that day

BTW: It's interesting to see how the runway was cut into the existing net of gravel paths. Also the wetland area that had to be protected is visible. I remember that time… protests ended with the death of two policemen and protest against the north-west runway was non existing in comparison. Or more in court and back rooms and media and …

My remark was tongue in cheek . "Standing on the end of the runway" means you have to be inside the fence. Your vantage Point is several hundred meters from that position. I remember that day of the "Airport wallk" very well since my wife and I were trapped on the Autobahn and we could see what the rioters did. That was far from legitimate protests and the killers of the policemen are still at large.

The new runway was preceeded by a Mediation, but there was still enough protest by the professional protesters who are against anything anywehere anyhow.

Quoting galleypower (Reply 199):

If you cannot do that in Germany, then why should they look at IAG and what is to learn from their winning side? If you give up a market for 3 flights a day from MAN to DXB I wonder if IAG is the benchmark to look at.[Edited 2015-01-20 09:50:55]


I said that the marlket conditions in Germany are different. We do not have that single 10 Million plus market. Instead we have, with HAM/BER/ DUS/CGN and STR a number of local markets which Need direct (without hub) Access to a large number of European destinations. LH has an Obligation to serve These markets but cannot do that under the old cost structure without going broke in the medium to Long run. It has to be understood in LH and the unions that it is either the 5* Airline plus the various wings concept to survive or go over the Jordan.

The days of the shiny national carriers are long time gone, we have a European Union, we have a singke market which is actually larger than the regular single market due to the "annexation" of countries like Iceland, Switzerland, Norway etc. into the single Euroipean aviation Zone. Face reality or die. Simple fact.

.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
galleypower
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:35 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 202):
LH has an Obligation to serve These markets but cannot do that under the old cost structure without going broke in the medium to Long run. It has to be understood in LH and the unions that it is either the 5* Airline plus the various wings concept to survive or go over the Jordan.

LH has no obligation to any market whatsoever. These days are over indeed. The only obligation they have is the one to shareholders to make profit. Nothing wrong with that. Who knows which concept will work? The only one who will survive is the Lufthansa holding. Each subsidary will have to make profit on its own, they dont support each other. For LH Classic it might be wise to downsize to markets that warrant its product. Some markets might be better served by anothet concept, eg WINGS. The unions understand that, but they are fighting for a chance to transfer between these subsidaries, even to the condition at these subs. VC was offering an increase in prodctivity of up to 25%. But not good enough. If you look at the cockpit cost, not even 5% of total cost including all the sim and training cost that will work out to about 1% of cost reduction. This represents make or brake of your business model? I dont think so. This clearly shows that the goal is not better productivity but breaking a contract and have the unions on their knees.


Quoting PanHAM (Reply 202):
The days of the shiny national carriers are long time gone, we have a European Union, we have a singke market which is actually larger than the regular single market due to the "annexation" of countries like Iceland, Switzerland, Norway etc. into the single Euroipean aviation Zone. Face reality or die. Simple fact.

They face it and adapt. This can be done with your staff or against your staff. This war will end with one loser, the unions or the CEO. At present they get ready for the final battle and the next month will show which way will make it. But we all be losers I am afraid.
 
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seahawk
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:46 am

Quoting galleypower (Reply 199):

If you cannot do that in Germany, then why should they look at IAG and what is to learn from their winning side? If you give up a market for 3 flights a day from MAN to DXB I wonder if IAG is the benchmark to look at.

IAG is not just BA but also Vueling. And Spain is a much better comparison to Germany than the UK. But in the end the wings concept will fail any way. LH and low costs won´t work, it is simply not in the DNA of the company. So imho the only thing they hope to achieve is to pressure their workers to accept worse conditions.
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:41 am

Quoting galleypower (Reply 203):
LH has no obligation to any market whatsoever. These days are over indeed. The only obligation they have is the one to shareholders

They have an Obligation towards their customers and towards the regions wheich they serve for decaades. Of course any company can take the easy way out and drop markets. LH is doint the opposite and takes the challenmge on.

The Chosen way is to accommoate the concepts., that of an international hub carrier who serves wporld wide markets from a European base in combination with the new concept of Point-to-Point flights from secondary and tertiary markets. IAG is doing that with Vueling, LH will do that with Wings.
Naturally, the costs structures Need to be competetive.



Quoting galleypower (Reply 203):
They face it and adapt. This can be done with your staff or against your staff

I suggest you read the Editorial in today's Handelsblatt. And I am not as pessimistic as seahawk is.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Bambel
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:24 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 200):
Sorry dude, can't help you out, but wanted to say thanks for your interesting contribution. You sure peaked my interest and your favorite spotting hideaway may be about to get a little busier

Be my guest  

I do my bicycle workout mostly around the airport. There are lots of interesting places!

So "spotting" for me is more like watching from my saddle, not taking pictures of as many different planes as possible  

But you can do funny stuff with a camera there:

http://youtu.be/vKrgL_Sn56c

It's nothing more than a first test and has no sound, but i plan to do more shots like that and edit them to a short flick.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 202):
My remark was tongue in cheek . "Standing on the end of the runway" means you have to be inside the fence. Your vantage Point is several hundred meters from that position.

Ok, a "literally" would have clarified, but i think it was clear what i meant  
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 202):
I remember that day of the "Airport wallk" very well since my wife and I were trapped on the Autobahn and we could see what the rioters did. That was far from legitimate protests and the killers of the policemen are still at large.

I was a child then, but remember it as one of the first "politics" that i realized since all happened right around the corner.

b.
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:58 am

Quoting Bambel (Reply 206):
Ok, a "literally" would have clarified, but i think it was clear what i meant Quoting

It was clear, as I said, my reply was meant with tongiue in cheek.

Quoting Bambel (Reply 206):

I was a child then, but remember it as one of the first "politics" that i realized since all happened right around the corner.

b.


I would not call street riots and murder "political". What I saw on that day I will never Forget. The most disgusting part of it was, that the rioters had been invited by a high ranking Frankfurt Magistrate official to see "if that Airport was really too small".
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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cougar15
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:01 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 204):
But in the end the wings concept will fail any way. LH and low costs won´t work, it is simply not in the DNA of the company. So imho the only thing they hope to achieve is to pressure their workers to accept worse conditions.

Well, I would respectfully disagree with that, Germanwings (OLD) found it´s place in the aviation world, so why should a future ´Wings´ not do the same? Markets are changing, the days of legacies are ending, lets face Facts!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
Bambel
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 207):
It was clear, as I said, my reply was meant with tongiue in cheek.

If you read this forum for some time, ones irony detector may read disturbed data  
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 207):
I would not call street riots and murder "political". What I saw on that day I will never Forget. The most disgusting part of it was, that the rioters had been invited by a high ranking Frankfurt Magistrate official to see "if that Airport was really too small".

I was six years old in '81 and we lived a few km further away than i do today. So we haven't been directly involved like the people in the town i live in today but, it still was a daily topic. Before, "politics" for me were those black-suited guys on our b/w TV-set. Then I've learned on a major local "thing" that there are many parties involved and all want something else. Some only talk, others not. It has been built anyways.

In this era i heard for the first time the saying "at the end of the day it's all politics".

b.
 
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seahawk
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:46 am

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 208):

Well, I would respectfully disagree with that, Germanwings (OLD) found it´s place in the aviation world, so why should a future ´Wings´ not do the same? Markets are changing, the days of legacies are ending, lets face Facts!

Germanwings is not really lo-co. It has lower operating cots than LH mainline, but I would not call it lo-co. Apart from that I think lo-co does not match LH, something like a European jetblue would make more sense imho. Currently I think this is the way the Eurowings could be headed.
 
galleypower
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:30 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 204):
IAG is not just BA but also Vueling. And Spain is a much better comparison to Germany than the UK.

Thats what I mean. IAG is not the airline, its the holding corp. A success of Vueling wont help BA one bit. They have to see on their own how to make profit. If BA drops routes they wont be handed over to the competition but stay in the family. Good for IAG. Same with LH. Airline LH drops routes and Wings picks it up. Good for Lufthansa AG but Lufthansa Airline wont benefit from it.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 204):
But in the end the wings concept will fail any way. LH and low costs won´t work, it is simply not in the DNA of the company. So imho the only thing they hope to achieve is to pressure their workers to accept worse conditions.

   Exactly! If you drop unprofitable routes and just keep the cherries you downsize. Need less staff and without fresh (cheaper) staff your labourcost on average will steadily rise. Drop some more routes.... The longterm strategy is exactly this, shift, lay off, return some. Why agree to an offered 20% better productivity today when you can have 40% tomorrow?

We will see.
 
uberflieger
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:26 pm

Guys, just a 'heads up' when flying from DUS & CGN tomorrow. The strike by some security staff could affect your flight. Good thing I am leaving from FRA  http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information
 
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American 767
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German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:47 pm

Please continue here.

German Aviation Thread - Part 2 (by American 767 Nov 22 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
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American 767
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 2

Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:51 pm

Thread now archived.

Please click on this link to continue:

German Aviation Thread - Part 3 (by American 767 Jan 28 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
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cougar15
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:17 pm

from thread 2: Quoting Uberflieger

Guys, just a 'heads up' when flying from DUS & CGN tomorrow. The strike by some security staff could affect your flight. Good thing I am leaving from FRA http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information

Well, glad to be home tonight into DUS with the always fabolous Flybe Service    a day before the mess!

3rd GERMAN thread guys, I cant believe it!
Anyway, EK with a 380 into DUS... well discussed in a seperate thread, but worth a mention anyway! I treasure the connectivety Options the ME3 are offering us nowadays, "one stop to the world", but it does leave a sour after taste for our local legacies (who sadly cannot meet my travel Needs any more, not to mention the Company requirement to pick the cheapest Option)! Guess I will be stuck on the ME3 for life going Forward on the longhaul side......    
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
JU068
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:40 pm

In May 2015, airBaltic will be launching 4 weekly flights to both Berlin and Vienna from Tallinn.
 
uberflieger
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 1):
3rd GERMAN thread guys, I cant believe it!

Totally cool 
Quoting cougar15 (Reply 1):
it does leave a sour after taste for our local legacies

  
Somehow I feel Lufti will manage just fine, and how can you not love seeing the A380 in DUS?   
 
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cougar15
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 2):
In May 2015, airBaltic will be launching 4 weekly flights to both Berlin and Vienna from Tallinn.

good on them, I seriously wish them best of luck, seems they have weathered the worst of the storms over recent years! now if only Bombardier would get that CS series sorted out, they could have a bright future! fingers crossed for them!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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LTU932
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:39 pm

Today something weird happened in HAM: The entire power went out for like 5 seconds in the check-in area in both T1 and T2. It took a few minutes for things to be back to normal once power was back. It didn't seem to affect flight operations though but it did cause inconveniences. I can only imagine the delays this can cause when going through security.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
JU068
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 4):

Indeed! Let's hope both Lithuania and Estonia realise that their markets are best served by an airline like BT. I don't see OV lasting much longer. Will be interesting if these flights remain during the winter season.
 
JU068
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:12 am

Wizz Air eyes Memmingen-Nis (INI) flights after already having announced flights from both Basel and Malmö.

http://exyuaviation.blogspot.com/
 
uberflieger
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:42 am

Lufthansa showing MUC & LPA some love   
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...palmas-service-from-late-oct-2015/
The seasonal service will operate Sundays.
 
uberflieger
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:49 pm

Tomorrow, 1 February, 2 of our proud German and UAE flag carriers   are celebrating milestones.

The LH Group's 1st A320 Eurowings flight takes to the sky from HAM to PRG
http://atwonline.com/finance-data/fi...m_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A AtwDailyNews %28ATW Daily News%29
Sadly this is the beginning of the end of Germanwings, but with LH Group's Pan European footprint and expansion plans, Eurowings definitely is the better name.   

Sunday Stefan Pichler officially takes up his job at Airberlin.
http://atwonline.com/people/new-airb...m_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A AtwDailyNews %28ATW Daily News%29
Despite being busy looking for CEOs    Airberlin has consistently been improving its partnership with fellow Oneworld member Iberia.
http://www.incentivetravel.co.uk/new...a-group-expand-codeshare-agreement

Have a great weekend   
 
ElanusNotatus
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:12 am

In 2014 HAM recorded 14.76 million passengers and I understand that airport CEO Michael Eggenschwiler is aiming to see 15 million in 2015.

My questions: what is the current capacity of HAM and what plans does the airport have for future increases in capacity? Will this be primarily through the use of larger aircraft?

I am aware of the new air cargo centre facilities being built but have any projected passenger treminal expansion plans been published?
Crawl, walk, fly into the future
 
wilco737
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:42 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 9):
The LH Group's 1st A320 Eurowings flight takes to the sky from HAM to PRG
http://atwonline.com/finance-data/fi...m_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A AtwDailyNews %28ATW Daily News%29
Sadly this is the beginning of the end of Germanwings, but with LH Group's Pan European footprint and expansion plans, Eurowings definitely is the better name.   

It is indeed the beginning of the end of Germanwings and I am not happy about it, but I guess many others are looking forward to these changes - I don't.

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 10):

I am aware of the new air cargo centre facilities being built but have any projected passenger treminal expansion plans been published?

Space at HAM is an issue, it is in the middle of the city and cannot really expand, so they have to use the current space and there is not a whole lot. So not sure if there is a lot of expansion in the future. And not sure if there is a market anyway.

I always liked HAM airport, spent many many many many hours there when I was a child. Looked a whole different back then... Always like the spotting point on the bridge next to runway 15/ 33.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:38 am

The relocation of the cargo facilities yields a couple of gates and is a Logical step. After that, there is Little else that can be done for further Expansion.

The idea to start a whole new Airport North of Hamburg was falwed from the beginning, wrong Location. They should have Chosen a site in the south of Hamburg. Close enough to the City with high Speed Train Access.

Now, both chances are gone, The next mistake they made was trashing the Kaltenkirchen Project altogether and virtually cutting all chances to meet future pssenger capacity requirements. Anyhow, for the time they are covered, they can still double the numbers with the Options they have now

,
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
WorldspotterPL
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:54 am

Scope for expansion is indeed very limited at HAM. Having spent some time in their strategic department I can say that even creating a few parking spaces is a major issue. I believe there is the very theoretical option to put a pier into the apron (making the terminal T-shaped) but that would - while not generating that many new gates - screw up ground-ops completely.

I also saw plans that the site in Kaltenkirchen was chosen (back in the 1960s) when SST was believed to be the future of aviation. The land-mass in the North of Hamburg is very thin from west to east and since noise/sound barrier issues were big at the time, the location in Schleswig-Holstein seemed perfect to allow for supersonic planes to fly in over water and depart out over water without tormenting locals too much.

All in all I guess HAM will only have a chance to grow with bigger planes in the long run.
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:06 am

I followed the Kaltenkirchen project back in the 70s and that's when it really came up. IIRC super sonic Transport was no issue. The Concorde was noisy enough on take off but super sonic Speed was allowed only once well over water. Schwleswig Holstein had about 4 airbases of whoich 2 or 3 had Starfighters. They broke the Sound barrier usually over water.

Back in the 70s the daily 707 to NY was noisy enough with about 140 db. From my Office I had a vantage Point to see and hear the aircraft. It was not possible make a phone. call.

Growth with bigger aircraft is indeed the only choice, the only unused space in the boundaries is on the Niendorf side but that is impractical from the ops side and resident resitance would be tough.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
WorldspotterPL
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:21 am

It must have been scetches from the very early planning phase then, because I distinctly remember drawings of Concorde and how the location fits it perfectly because of the sorrounding water. I guess by the 70s it was no issue anymore when oil prices were going up, Boeing withdrew its SST program and everyone cancelled their Concorde orders.
 
ElanusNotatus
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:56 am

Thanks for the replies regarding HAM, wilco737, PanHAM and WorldspotterPL.
When I read Eggenschwiler's aim of 15 million I was a bit puzzled because I had read on flughafenwerbung that the stated capacity of the airport was only a 15 million passengers.

http://www.flughafenwerbung-ham-airp...hamburg-airport/zahlendatenfakten/

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 11):
ked HAM airport, spent many many many many hours there when I was a child. Looked a whole different back then...

I can well imagine. My father was involved in the airlift to Berlin and the aircraft he would have seen in HAM included some that only a few years previously had been carrying very different cargo, e.g. HP Halifax, Avro York and on the Elbe near Finkenwerder he would have seen Short Sunderlands heading to the Havel.

My earliest recollections date back to the early to late 1960s. A few Super Constellations could still be seen, the Boeing 707 and later the 727. Just before our family left Germany the first 737 was delivered.

If I am not mistaken (perhaps PanHAM can check my memory) there had been a little controversy around the 737 as the British government was wanting to sell the BAC 1-11 and the Chancellor, Ludwig Erhardt was putting some pressure on Lufthansa to buy. LH correctly resisted political interference and maintained its independence in determining aircraft purchases suitable to its needs.
Crawl, walk, fly into the future
 
wilco737
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:15 am

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 16):
I can well imagine. My father was involved in the airlift to Berlin and the aircraft he would have seen in HAM included some that only a few years previously had been carrying very different cargo, e.g. HP Halifax, Avro York and on the Elbe near Finkenwerder he would have seen Short Sunderlands heading to the Havel.

Well, I am not that old  I spent many hours there in the 90's (1990's   )

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:55 am

On a side note, I had the pleasure to experience the Super Connie on a too short flight from FRA to DUS. Convairs and Viscounts many times.

I don't remember the political pressre by the Chancellor in favore of the 1-11 anymore. But I know that the 1-11 was louder than the 737-100/200.
I commuted weekly over a longer period twice, and I flew about anything LH had in these days including 707s and DC10s on HAM/FRA vv. The first flight on Monday Mornings to HAM was always a 727 with about a dozen "Regulars".

I was around when the airlift started but couldn't care less about aircraft then, pooping the diapers was more important.   But since I was born in the British zone I still have my child ID Card.  
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Stratofish
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RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
The relocation of the cargo facilities yields a couple of gates and is a Logical step. After that, there is Little else that can be done for further Expansion.

Some years ago there was talk to build a satellite terminal on apron II with a tunnel connecting it to the existing terminals. I still think it was the best idea they ever had... and as we know it never happened. Space would be sufficient for a bout 4 medium sized and 4 heavy gates. Make a non-Schengen terminal reality and solve many problems... will not happen for that exact reason. Hamburgers like coping with problems, not solving them. If you are puzzled just google "Elbtunnel" or "Elbphilharmonie"  
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
The idea to start a whole new Airport North of Hamburg was falwed from the beginning, wrong Location. They should have Chosen a site in the south of Hamburg. Close enough to the City with high Speed Train Access.

Yes and no. Kaltenkirchen was too far out and followed half heartly. South of the river was and will never ever be an option for anything (any project of any kind) of scale. Hamburg happens north of the river (with Airbus truly being the one and only exception).

I just heard talk LH board plans to staff not only the long haul Eurowings A330s with SunExpress crew but many to all Eurowings/Germanwings flights... For now that's just a rumor.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:36 am

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 19):
Hamburgers like coping with problems, not solving them. If you are puzzled just google "Elbtunnel" or "Elbphilharmonie"

Well said indeed 
Quoting Stratofish (Reply 19):
I just heard talk LH board plans to staff not only the long haul Eurowings A330s with SunExpress crew but many to all Eurowings/Germanwings flights... For now that's just a rumor.

It seems to be a matter of time until the name Lufthansa will disappear and we will only see Eurowings and Sunexpress...
It feels like Swissair being bankrupt and then an all new SWISS was made. Looks like this will happen to Lufthansa as well.   

wilco737
  
 
galleypower
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:54 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:14 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 8):
Lufthansa showing MUC & LPA some love
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...palmas-service-from-late-oct-2015/
The seasonal service will operate Sundays.

How could this be profitable? Such high labour cost? Maybe just to block slots and will be one of the routes that will be transfered to WINGS once they open the gates into the hubs. Doest make sence to keep them WINGS free forever.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 20):
It seems to be a matter of time until the name Lufthansa will disappear and we will only see Eurowings and Sunexpress...
It feels like Swissair being bankrupt and then an all new SWISS was made. Looks like this will happen to Lufthansa as well.

Totally agree. Looks like the plan.
  
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:03 am

Seems like airBaltic is on steroids these days, after announcing Tallinn flights they have just announced their first domestic German route. What's interesting is that they will offer complimentary drink and snack, something they don't do on their regular flights.

'Starting May 9, 2015 airBaltic will fly once a week from Frankfurt and Dortmund to Heringsdorf, Usedom Island using Bombardier Q400 NextGen aircraft. A check-in fee will not apply on these flights and passengers will be offered a complimentary drink, such as water/tea/coffee, and snack while on board. The fares will start at 149 EUR on the Dortmund – Heringsdorf route, and at 159 EUR on the Frankfurt – Heringsdorf route, including airport fees and transaction costs.'

I guess they are after the tourist market or...? What's the logic behind the Dortmund route? Why not just fly out of DUS?
 
machnus
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:04 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:03 pm

DUS and CGN already have service to HDF both also on Saturdays exactly like the service from DTM.
I really don't see where the obviously high demand for this route (Rhine-Ruhr to HDF) is coming from especially if your minimum stay in Usedom is one week. You cannot use this connection to fly up there for the weekend...
Furthermore I wonder about the high prices (that's 300€ for the return!): 4U charges about the same (at least if you look at the available flights maybe there are cheaper promo fares).

[Edited 2015-02-04 06:07:50]
 
Humberside
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:34 pm

Is there a tour operators behind these Heringsdorf flights - i.e. effectively a charter with tour operator specified service standards, and some excess capacity sold by Air Baltic direct?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:38 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):
airBaltic

I knew little about the airline until your regular updates got me curious   
The government seems to still be the majority share holder, guess I was wrong thinking it was against EU regs?
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 25):
The government seems to still be the majority share holder, guess I was wrong thinking it was against EU regs?

Nah they can still have shares in airlines, there are just strict regulations on how much money they can give them. airBaltic was investigated by the European Commission which decided the state aid they received was in line with EU regulations.
I find BT a really cool airline. They are modern and they expand quietly without much fanfare... I just don't understand how they are still not part of an alliance.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:14 pm

Pichler wants to present his strategy for Airberlin at the 2015 ITB, Berlin's Travel Trade Show, opening 4 March.
http://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Der-ne...eitet-zur-Tat-article14464041.html

I like the guy. He is talking about 'winning the hearts' of the employees, and will be doing 'town meetings' for face to face discussions.
  
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:29 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 27):
I like the guy. He is talking about 'winning the hearts' of the employees, and will be doing 'town meetings' for face to face discussions.

That's always dangerous,, for the employees.
 
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:14 pm

I have a bit of a random question, so I am supposed to book some tickets to Munster for our company and I noticed that in the period 2008-2013 passenger numbers dropped from 1.5 million to just 853.000. Does anyone know why?

I guess we can't really blame it on the crisis.

Danke.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6029
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:53 pm

Finally good news from BER:

Hartmut Mehdorn says that the new airport was built economically. Instead of paying 2.4 billions for an airport with a 17 million passengers/year capacity, they now get 27 million passengers/year for just 5.4 billion.

     

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/articl...dorn-findet-den-BER-preiswert.html



David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:54 am

That is economics by trained engineeers with a Dipl.-Ing degree and a course in politics.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:19 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 30):
Hartmut Mehdorn says that the new airport was built economically. Instead of paying 2.4 billions for an airport with a 17 million passengers/year capacity, they now get 27 million passengers/year for just 5.4 billion.

I don't believe a word Mehdorn says anymore (not that I've ever been a fan of Hartmut Mehdorn anyway). This this typical political spin.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
machnus
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:04 pm

RE: German Aviation Thread - Part 3

Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting JU068 I noticed that in the period 2008-2013 passenger numbers dropped from 1.5 million to just 853.000. Does anyone know why? (Reply 29):

Münster was hit hard by losing AirBerlin (in 2012?) which accounted for about 20% of the passengers there.
But numbers are going up now. In 2014 they saw a rise by 4,8%. For this year LH and TK announced to add capacity from/to FMO.

[Edited 2015-02-08 05:05:34]

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