gordonsmall
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Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:00 pm

A Falcon 50 is reported to have crashed at Vnukovo Airport in Russia after hitting snow-clearing equipment on the runway.

The CEO of French oil company Total was reportedly on board.

http://rt.com/news/197648-moscow-vnukovo-jet-crash/
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teva
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:20 am

just found this video (in russian only)

This is very impressive: the falcon landed on its roof. With wings full of fuel, there was no chance of survivors.
the 4 on board passed away (C. De Margerie + 3 crew members)
a 5th body has been found: probably the driver of the snow removing equipment.

http://lifenews.ru/news/143205
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777fan
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:48 am

Just out of curiosity, was it snowing in Moscow? Seems unusual…

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RickNRoll
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:04 am

No mainstream media seems to have the story yet. Apparently weather in general was bad, including fog.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting ricknroll (Reply 3):

It's being reported on the BBC.
 
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:15 am

Now being reported on Bloomberg TV here in the US.
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iliam
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:23 am

Looks like WSJ is picking it up, as well.

Might need subscription to read full article: Top
 
threeifbyair
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting teva (Reply 1):
just found this video (in russian only)

This is very impressive: the falcon landed on its roof. With wings full of fuel, there was no chance of survivors.
the 4 on board passed away (C. De Margerie + 3 crew members)
a 5th body has been found: probably the driver of the snow removing equipment.

http://lifenews.ru/news/143205

Someone already had time to make a CGI rendering of the crash (2nd video in the link) suggesting the Falcon's left wing hit the snow removal equipment and somehow inverted nose-first (not sure of the physics on that, but I have no knowledge in that area) before flipping back onto the runway.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:25 am

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 7):
Someone already had time to make a CGI rendering of the crash (2nd video in the link) suggesting the Falcon's left wing hit the snow removal equipment and somehow inverted nose-first (not sure of the physics on that, but I have no knowledge in that area) before flipping back onto the runway.

I read somewhere that they managed to take off but that they lost their lives during the emergency landing.
Is this true?

I always wonder why accidents like that don't render more reactions on A-net.
It reminds me of the Cessna crashing in Brazil a few months back, with the Presidential candidate on board....
It received hardly any interest on here.....while "we" still don't even know if it was foul play or what?

This is a fairly high profile case,and although tragic for friends and family of the deceased; it is also an intriguing case for the average aviation enthusiast. "A jet slamming into a snow clearing vehicle"......sounds somewhat familiar to the SQ accident at Taipei!

Curious to see what the cause may be.....

Regards,

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Aesma
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:49 am

Tragic and very avoidable accident. I don't own Total stock but I wonder what the markets will do, it's a 100 billion Euros company.
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mozart
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:13 am

Being reported in many media now because the CEO of TOTAL was on board, one of the largest oil companies in the world.

The driver of the now equipment was drunk (this is Russia). However, he was not hurt in the accident.

Very tragic way to die for four people.
 
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:21 am

Quoting mozart (Reply 10):

Being reported in many media now because the CEO of TOTAL was on board, one of the largest oil companies in the world.

The driver of the now equipment was drunk (this is Russia). However, he was not hurt in the accident.

Very tragic way to die for four people.

Wow! If the report of the driver being drunk is true, what consequences does he face?
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wjcandee
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:31 am

A logical question, given the crisis in Russia over the declining oil prices, is was there any potential foul play in this accident?

This was the most-well-known oil CEO in the world. And the most outspoken.

He was, however, a huge apologist for Russia and an advocate of Europe continuing to be tied to and dependent on Russia for gas. Roots of Le Socialisme run deep in France.

So he was a friend of Russia and unlikely to be targeted by them.

Still amazing that such an important person, and specifically to Russia, would be the victim of a run-of-the-mill runway incursion.
 
aircatalonia
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:36 am

Bizarre accident in Russia kills French oil tycoon in the middle of the oil price wars...

Do you think someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse?
 
titus95
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:37 am

Strange.........

Do we know the registration ?
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting titus95 (Reply 14):
Do we know the registration ?

I have heard rumours from multiple people that it was F-GLSA. This is just hearsay though, nothing confirmed.
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B8887
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:11 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 11):
Wow! If the report of the driver being drunk is true, what consequences does he face?

Reports say the driver died in addition to the four people on board...

Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 13):
Do you think someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

Very early to tell, but I do not think so...

It's all over the French news outlets...

Tributes paid by the French Prime Minister, French President and Russian President Putin...

The financial press is also all over it....

Link, in French...

http://lci.tf1.fr/economie/entrepris...hristophe-de-margerie-8505707.html

And in English...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-industry-captain-and-patriot.html

B8887
 
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teme82
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:24 am

Finnish TV channel MTV reports that the driver of the snowplow was drunk. If his is true there is a huge security problem at VKO.
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foxxray
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:41 am

Quoting titus95 (Reply 14):
Strange.........

Do we know the registration ?

F-GLSA, operated by Unijet  
 
macc
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:47 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 12):
was there any potential foul play in this accident?

I am not much of a friend of such speculation. Least not at such an early stage.
Reports here are that the driver was not injured at all, though aparently under influence of alcohol. Authorities are opening the investigation and are first considering failures on behalf of the driver and the air traffic control.
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teme82
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:52 am

I found English source : http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...total_ceo_margerie-0/#.VEYeR8kiyd5

Quote:
It has been established that the driver of the snow-removing vehicle was in a state of alcoholic intoxication at the moment, when the tragedy occurred, Tatyana Morozova, an official representative of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation said.
Flying high and low
 
wjcandee
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:59 am

Quoting macc (Reply 19):
I am not much of a friend of such speculation.

My point was that while the question is obvious, the man's history with Russia would tend to militate against it.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:18 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 8):
while "we" still don't even know if it was foul play or what?

Crashing on a go-around and 2nd attempt at landing is not foul play.
 
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euroflyer
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:24 am

According to last reports, the plane was rolling at +/- 150 knots when it hit the snow truck.
Low visibility less than 350 meters. Somehow, the truck driver, despite being intoxicated, may not even be injured.

Report also suggest that there might be some ATC errors

[Edited 2014-10-21 02:45:19]
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SASDC8
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:25 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 22):

Well media reports suggest that it crashed on takeoff because a drunk snowplow driver was on the active runway. I would guess this is just a stupid and unnecessary accident.
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euroflyer
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
Plenty of material for conspiracy theories

That could certainly be a good plot for next episode of "The Blacklist"
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Dufo
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:07 am

I though there is a trade embargo with Russia. Oh wait, that's for cabbage and bread only, not oil.
Sorry to say that but I don't feel any empathy for these exploiters.
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
andrej
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:22 am

Quoting Dufo (Reply 27):
I though there is a trade embargo with Russia. Oh wait, that's for cabbage and bread only, not oil.
Sorry to say that but I don't feel any empathy for these exploiters.

Poor wording my friend, but nonetheless your opinion.

Provide any proof that his business trip was in a breach of the sanctions(or exploiting - what?). Total SA has business interest in Russia and as any mindful business leader he protects / takes care of firm's business in all regions. Well he did.

There are sanction against Russia that relates to arctic drilling (but there are still ways how to get around of these). Europe needs Russian gas and oil, so to that effect there is a business as usual.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
Plenty of material for conspiracy theories

Let's wait for the official investigation report to see what exactly has happened and how such tragedy can be prevented in the future.

Cheers,

Andrej
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:22 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 11):

Wow! If the report of the driver being drunk is true, what consequences does he face?

Given the political impact, probably a relocation to some prison camp in northern central Siberia.

Jan
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Max Q
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:23 am

Sounds like another drunk Russian driver.



Not exactly a rarity over there, what a tragedy.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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andrej
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:30 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 29):
Given the political impact, probably a relocation to some prison camp in northern central Siberia.

And serves him right (if he was really drunk).

Quoting Max Q (Reply 30):
Sounds like another drunk Russian driver.

If indeed true (more than likely), Russians need to step up their drive against drinking at work (well it would be a good start, at least at the airports).

Totally unacceptable!
 
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:44 am

Anyone know the registration of the plane?
 
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euroflyer
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:52 am

Quoting ivanpaneque (Reply 32):

Press release from Unijet :

Paris, 21 October 2014 - Unijet regrets to confirm that one of its aircraft, a Dassault Falcon 50, was involved in an accident at Moscow Vnukovo airport. The accident happened at 23:50 local time (19:50 UTC) on Monday October 20th, 2014. Four casualties have been confirmed (the four people on board - 1 passenger and 3 crew members). Unijet conveys its deepest condolences to the victims’ families and next of kin. The causes of the accident are currently under investigation. Further information will be published on this website when available.

It is confirmed that the aircraft is F-GLSA (Dassault Falcon 50EX), french registred, built and operated.
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aircatalonia
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:12 pm

Ok, it seems that Moscow may see the first snowfall of the season in the next few hours so that could explain the movement of snow-clearing equipment
 
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:49 pm

Quoting teme82 (Reply 17):
Finnish TV channel MTV reports that the driver of the snowplow was drunk. If his is true there is a huge security problem at VKO.

Or just another day in Moscow...
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GCT64
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:27 pm

Looks like the investigation and trial of the responsible people and the sentencing might be wrapped up quickly Russian style:

The Investigations Committee of Russia, a federal agency which answers to President Vladimir Putin, is investigating the crash. "It is already obvious that the cause of the events was not at all a horrific tragic confluence of circumstances, which is how representatives of the airport are trying to present it, but criminal negligence by officials who could not ensure the coordinated actions of airport employees," said committee spokesman Vladimir Markin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29702801

None of this "it will take time to fully investigate and find the cause" stuff that we hear in the West and takes months or years to resolve.
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foxxray
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:50 pm

Quoting ivanpaneque (Reply 32):
Anyone know the registration of the plane?

Please read the thread before asking.
I wrote the registration 14 replies above yours !!!
 
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 12):
A logical question, given the crisis in Russia over the declining oil prices, is was there any potential foul play in this accident?

In addition to all the other reasons already mentioned, the head of Total was probably Russia's best friend, at least among oil producers. He was not afraid of complaining loudly when government sanctions would get in the way of his company's activities.
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nupogodi
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:51 pm

Yes, friend in Moscow is telling me that Total was a Russian ally. Would make very little sense to kill him.

Now, normally when aircraft collide with ground equipment at international airports, it's pilot error - taking the wrong runway, not waiting for clearance, things like that.

So they hit a snowplow on a takeoff roll. Surely snowplow was in contact with ground, surely no one would have cleared T/O for this A/C right?

Either pilot failure or airport COMPLETELY messed up on an insanely unprecedented level.

Does anyone have more info? Do we have recordings from ground/tower/etc at the time? Lots of aviation enthusiasts in Moscow recording the freqs.
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bhill
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:04 pm

Almost reads like a Blacklist episode....
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Moose135
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 39):
So they hit a snowplow on a takeoff roll. Surely snowplow was in contact with ground, surely no one would have cleared T/O for this A/C right?

Either pilot failure or airport COMPLETELY messed up on an insanely unprecedented level.

Or poor visibility and a reportedly intoxicated plow driver made a wrong turn and ended up somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and neither the tower nor pilot could see the plow on the runway given the reduced visibility.
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BOAC911
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:23 pm

Quoting teme82 (Reply 17):
Finnish TV channel MTV reports that the driver of the snowplow was drunk. If his is true there is a huge security problem at VKO.

You mean a safety problem. A security problem is something else.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 38):
In addition to all the other reasons already mentioned, the head of Total was probably Russia's best friend, at least among oil producers. He was not afraid of complaining loudly when government sanctions would get in the way of his company's activities.

I don't know how much previous investment Total has in Russia. They could have received hints from Putin that unless they play ball, their oil fields and drilling rigs could suddenly become the property of Rosneft, as had happened to BP a few years ago.

Jan
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 43):
I don't know how much previous investment Total has in Russia. They could have received hints from Putin that unless they play ball, their oil fields and drilling rigs could suddenly become the property of Rosneft, as had happened to BP a few years ago.

This guy was basically a French version of Schroeder or Orban (or Fico). Putin will be less than impressed by losing one of its trojan horses thanks to something as banal as a drunk driver.
 
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PW100
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 36):
Looks like the investigation and trial of the responsible people and the sentencing might be wrapped up quickly Russian style

        

My thinking exactly! Glad that I'm not the only one who thinks it's quite suspicious that within 12 hrs of a rather small, but yet very high profile accident, the blame is already firmly established at one poor soul.

Of course it would be a major major major humiliation for Russia (read Mr. Putin), and/or other high ranked officials if ATC was to blame, or shortcomings in airport protocol . . . nothing better than “finding” a drunk individual.


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Tugger
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 46):
Quoting GCT64 (Reply 36):
Looks like the investigation and trial of the responsible people and the sentencing might be wrapped up quickly Russian style

My thinking exactly! Glad that I'm not the only one who thinks it's quite suspicious that within 12 hrs of a rather small, but yet very high profile accident, the blame is already firmly established at one poor soul.

A somewhat humorous article title to this serious and sad event but it caught my eye (it's probably true too, I sure wouldn't to be on the hot seat for causing the death of a friend of Putin's):

What happens when you get drunk and kill Putin's friend with your snowplow?

http://fortune.com/2014/10/21/what-h...-putins-friend-with-your-snowplow/

And in the article it points out:

Quote:
Meanwhile, back in the cells, Mr. Martynenko might–mind I said “might”–just also spare a thought for his boss, Vnukovo’s CEO Vasily Alexandrov, after seeing comments from Vladimir Markin, spokesman for the Interior Ministry’s Investigative Committee. The IC is undisputed king of the beasts in the jungle of Russia’s judicial system, and Markin signalled Tuesday that the buck for this one was going to stop a lot higher than Martynenko.

“It’s obvious that what happened was not at all a tragic confluence of events, as the airport’s management is trying to present,” Markin said, “but rather a criminal connivance by management.” He added that more would be suspended while the Committee conducted its investigation. His colleague Ivan Sibul was quoted as saying that there were reasons to believe that the dispatchers, too, were under the influence (we should note that reports say a lawyer for Martynenko said he wasn’t under the influence of alcohol at the time of the incident).

Harsh? Jumping to conclusions? Maybe, but there has so far been no convincing explanation as to why air traffic control gave de Margerie’s plane clearance for take-off when the snowplow was still on the runway. Fog reportedly was restricting visibility to 350 yards.

Tugg
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nupogodi
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:22 pm

350 yards? Previous reports said 350 metres.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
mia
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:47 pm

Any idea what insurance carrier has the hull? and if its written out of Paris or London?
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Tugger
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RE: Biz Jet Crash In Moscow

Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 48):
350 yards? Previous reports said 350 metres.

They are essentially the same thing to the layman (yes I know there is a ~10% difference) and that is who teh press report is written for.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin

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