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777way
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Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:22 pm

The link mentions them considering Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam, Istanbul, Dubai and Kunming amongst other changes planned in the airline, focus will remain on Asia and Australia, this will leave London, Jeddah and a cargo service to Dubai-Al Maktoum as their only routes farther West.

http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/in...of-capacity&Itemid=3#ixzz3GhWWNm5d

[Edited 2014-10-23 05:26:44]
 
777klm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:32 pm

I'm suprised AMS is on that list, as I understand AMS has always been a destination with good revenues. Even though MAS was already in bad shape, things might have accelerated after MH17 though...
Home airport: AMS
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kl911
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:39 pm

AMS? AMS is so big for them that they were considering the A380 for it. Plus there is all the KLM feed and codeshare destinations.
MH17 was definately a blow to the AMS route, but Dutch people generally are phlegmatic and will not stay away from MH for too long.
 
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RamonKok
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:41 pm

Another thing can be the 777, I don't know when they begin the 777 phase out, but West European destinations can not be reached with the A330s they have. That only leaves the A380 as possibility for those destinations, or new planes but none are on order. Not sure if its economicall to fly the A380 to all.
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frigatebird
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting 777klm (Reply 1):
I'm suprised AMS is on that list,

In all honesty, I'm not. When I saw the headline, I expected AMS to be among the scrapped destinations. I am very surprised about FRA and CDG though, the latter being an A380 route.

Quoting 777klm (Reply 1):
I understand AMS has always been a destination with good revenues

Good loads, yes, but high yields, no. And it would get even worse, as after MH17 the ticket prices dropped steeply. Heard often from friends who were going to SE Asia/Australia/NZ etc: "can get a really cheap ticket, and guess what airline: Malaysia."

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
AMS is so big for them that they were considering the A380 for it. Plus there is all the KLM feed and codeshare destinations.

The (tentative) A380 plans for AMS were immediately dropped when MH joined Oneworld. And I expect the KL codeshare will end too, I can see KL's collaboration with EY growing stronger and stronger. Expect EY upgrading their AMS route to 333s or 77Ws the moment MH drops AMS.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
MH17 was definately a blow to the AMS route, but Dutch people generally are phlegmatic and will not stay away from MH for too long.

That is true, and a low prices typically make Dutch people even more pragmatic  
Quoting RamonKok (Reply 3):

Another thing can be the 777, I don't know when they begin the 777 phase out, but West European destinations can not be reached with the A330s they have. That only leaves the A380 as possibility for those destinations, or new planes but none are on order. Not sure if its economicall to fly the A380 to all.

Yes, with MH phasing out their 777s next year and no alternative equipment I expected AMS and FRA to be axed.

I am a bit sad though. I hoped MH might be bold and lease some A380s with Amedeo for FRA and AMS. Now, with MH cutting about 25% of their capacity, I'm afraid they won't be much more than a regional airline      And I honestly can't see how they can still afford operating A380s any more   
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RamonKok
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:23 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
The (tentative) A380 plans for AMS were immediately dropped when MH joined Oneworld. And I expect the KL codeshare will end too, I can see KL's collaboration with EY growing stronger and stronger. Expect EY upgrading their AMS route to 333s or 77Ws the moment MH drops AMS.

EY will upgrade AMS to 77L in the coming moths for a short period and will change to 789 after that, I don't remember were I read that, but it was on multiple places./
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Tommy525
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:11 pm

Flew on a MAS 742 from AMS to KL (with stops in between) once. Was a nice flight.

Maybe some Asian airlines are better off flying regional Asian/Australia/N.Zealand routes only. Even SQ is feeling the effect of the MIdEast 3. And they are probably the strongest of the Asian airlines. CX seem to be doing ok still.

Asian carriers still have the Asia to/from N.America market to compete on. And that is probably because the MidEast 3 are not on those routes (yet).

I see Aussie/N.Zealand airlines doing Asia and N.America only.
Same with most Asian carriers cept for a few.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:27 pm

Good let them chop.

Its time for bold action and hopefully owners and new management team carry through with their stated business plans which said the carrier would primarily focus on ASEAN.
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Qatara340
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
MH17 was definately a blow to the AMS route, but Dutch people generally are phlegmatic and will not stay away from MH for too long.
Quoting 777klm (Reply 1):
I'm suprised AMS is on that list, as I understand AMS has always been a destination with good revenues. Even though MAS was already in bad shape, things might have accelerated after MH17 though...

Any idea what the loads are for AMS recently?
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
nicode
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:41 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
In all honesty, I'm not. When I saw the headline, I expected AMS to be among the scrapped destinations. I am very surprised about FRA and CDG though, the latter being an A380 route.

If MH drops CDG, we could see AF to upgrade its KUL flights from 3x weekly to daily.
 
Tommy525
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:01 pm

Airlines may need to specialize to keep their strengths. MAS may need to fly only Asian regional routes. Let the MidEast Big 3 work their strengths (ie bring people from Asia to/from Europe via their mid East hubs). Smaller carriers like Ci and EVA can continue to have their small Euro network so long as loads remain high. Again , as said, once Emirates establishes more then a toehold in the Taiwan market, they too may need to focus primarily on Asian and North American flights.

SQ may need to trim down a bit and also focus on Asian and North American flights, especially Asian.

The Japanese airlines could see a stronghold on their networks as long as the Japanese insist on flying their own carriers.

etc, etc.

Refocusing on strenghts is needed. Not everyone needs to fly everywhere on their own metal. That is where alliances come into play right?
 
flyingfool
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 8):
Any idea what the loads are for AMS recently?

The last month loads have been very good, most flights departed full out of AMS.
Maybe it has something to do with the autumn holidays?

Mike
 
spud757
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 8):

KUL-AMS MH16 on 30/08/14 - not a spare seat on the aircraft. Sad.

Out of LHR - is BA picking up one of the twice daily MH services? If they are, with MH code share, that frees up an A380 for elsewhere.
 
777way
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:20 pm

These might go too Sydney, Melbourne, Darwin, Brisbane, Kochi and Osaka or get reduced in frequency article mentions.
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:21 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 13):
These might go too Sydney, Melbourne, Darwin, Brisbane, Kochi and Osaka or get reduced in frequency article mentions.

SYD/MEL/DRW/BNE will probably get reduced frequencies, they won't be dropped as destinations.
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 6):
Maybe some Asian airlines are better off flying regional Asian/Australia/N.Zealand routes only. Even SQ is feeling the effect of the MIdEast 3. And they are probably the strongest of the Asian airlines. CX seem to be doing ok still.

Indeed some Asian airlines should focus on regional flying and MH is one of them. I wouldn't say SQ is the strongest, CX has had far better financial results of late.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 12):
Out of LHR - is BA picking up one of the twice daily MH services? If they are, with MH code share, that frees up an A380 for elsewhere.

The last thing MH needs to do is free up A380s. There's not really anywhere else they can send them to. But with BA starting LHR-KUL I think MH will struggle to fill double daily A380s with enough yield.

Quoting 777way (Reply 13):
These might go too Sydney, Melbourne, Darwin, Brisbane, Kochi and Osaka or get reduced in frequency article mentions.

SYD & MEL certainly need to reduce frequencies but I'm not sure if A380s should be used in place of A330s. Double daily A330 to SYD & MEL would be better than once daily A380. It helps to cater to both regional connections and to KUL terminating pax. Not sure how they can cut frequency to DRW when it is only 4x weekly unless it is dropped altogether.

If MH does end up dropping all European destinations aside LHR, I can see room for KUL-DOH and a partnership with QR, or KUL-AUH with an EY partnership.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 14):
SYD/MEL/DRW/BNE will probably get reduced frequencies, they won't be dropped as destinations.

DRW could well be dropped. The market is miniscule, and with SilkAir flying to SIN they've already got much more than they have historically.

They need to take a chain saw to their Australian schedules. Once daily A330 to SYD and MEL and sub-daily to BNE and PER is the only way they will make money in Australia. The market is massive, but the yields are so awful it is actually scary. Leave the market to Air Asia X and go home.
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Cipango
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:57 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 16):
Once daily A330 to SYD and MEL and sub-daily to BNE and PER

Completely agree. I do not think they should be dropped at all. They would provide a lot of connecting traffic on flights to and from Europe and also from across Asia.
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:57 pm

Quoting flyingfool (Reply 11):
The last month loads have been very good, most flights departed full out of AMS.
Maybe it has something to do with the autumn holidays?

Thanks Mike.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 12):
KUL-AMS MH16 on 30/08/14 - not a spare seat on the aircraft. Sad.

It is sad indeed.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 15):
I can see room for KUL-DOH and a partnership with QR

I doubt it will happen as QR operates 3 dailies (2 A330s, and 1 77W) With the Phuket continuation stopping in two days, there will be more seats just for KL.

QR should focus on Malaysia-Australia destinations, take MAS rights, but with QR metal. Perhaps to bypass Australian-Qatari bilaterals.
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:27 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 16):
Leave the market to Air Asia X and go home.

That's a bit harsh. I agree that D7 has trashed yields to KUL from Australia but if MH can't fly to Australia profitably, where else does that leave them? AK has taken most of MH's domestic traffic, EK/EY/QR have taken much of their European traffic and SQ has for a long time attracted premium traffic from Malaysia.

MH it seems can't compete with the low costs of D7/AK, yet it also hasn't been able to generate additional yield from a more premium product. Between a rock and a hard place much?

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 18):
I doubt it will happen as QR operates 3 dailies (2 A330s, and 1 77W) With the Phuket continuation stopping in two days, there will be more seats just for KL.

QR should focus on Malaysia-Australia destinations, take MAS rights, but with QR metal. Perhaps to bypass Australian-Qatari bilaterals.

QR does have a lot of capacity to KUL, but if MH does cease AMS/CDG/FRA/IST/DXB then all those pax will need to go somewhere. Instead of letting them all go to competitors and getting nothing in return, if MH creates a partnership with QR then there should be room for an MH flight KUL-DOH.
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 16):
Once daily A330 to SYD and MEL and sub-daily to BNE and PER is the only way they will make money in Australia. The market is massive, but the yields are so awful it is actually scary. Leave the market to Air Asia X and go home.

Not sure about sub-daily on BNE/PER, if you're going sub-daily you are effectively forgoing connectivity to the rest of MH's network and whatever premium connecting traffic MH previously had.

MEL/SYD currently get 3x daily services, cutting back to just 1 daily again limits the connecting traffic. If you cut your services down to 1 daily, they'll find themselves in QF's boat whereby a 1x daily flight just isn't going to cut-it Aus-Asia and it will be purely O&D. A 2x daily for SYD and perhaps a 10x weekly for MEL may be more appropriate?
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atal17
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:06 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 20):

IMHO, they should keep two dailies to Melbourne and Sydney. Darwin should be cut ASAP, along with Dubai, Frankfurt and Istanbul.

I think Paris should remain with 777s. India can be cut down to size, with Mumbai seeing A330 instead of B777. Hyderabad and Kochi should be reduced to 5 weekly, Bengaluru can be down to 10 weekly. UL and MH should deepen ties on KUL-CMB, so MH can drop the morning flight. Kathmandu, Dhaka and Chennai should be left untouched as is.

QR and MH should deepen their already existing ties by allowing MH to take over one daily KUL-DOH and expanding codeshares ex-DOH (the codeshare agreement is quite one-sided as of now) . I must say, I can't see QR extending their existing KUL services to Australia due to different connection banks at KUL and DOH. Maybe MH could negotiate with QR to take over their A380s.

My 2 cents.
 
TC957
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting atal17 (Reply 21):
Maybe MH could negotiate with QR to take over their A380s.

That's what I've suggested on another thread, but historically QR don't take used airliners.
 
ben175
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:30 am

BKI-PER is surely on the chopping block... but then again they did cancel it, bring it back and then upped the frequency in the past 12 months.
 
BNEFlyer
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:13 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 18):
I doubt it will happen as QR operates 3 dailies (2 A330s, and 1 77W) With the Phuket continuation stopping in two days, there will be more seats just for KL.

QR should focus on Malaysia-Australia destinations, take MAS rights, but with QR metal. Perhaps to bypass Australian-Qatari bilaterals.

I'm flying BNE-KUL-DOH-SAW/IST-DOH-KUL-BNE next year with MH/QR. It will be good to see how the partnership works and how two relatively new oneworld members operate connecting flights.

The flights I'm booked on have great connections (3h55 in KUL, 90min DOH/2h30m DOH, 1h20m KUL) and I'm on the QR 77W services to/from DOH. I have never flown MH or QR so am very much looking forward to it. And QR844 arrives 1h20m before MH135 departs for BNE, this could be a good tag on flight for them (pipe dreams of course).
 
kl911
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:46 am

Quoting flyingfool (Reply 11):
The last month loads have been very good, most flights departed full out of AMS.
Quoting spud757 (Reply 12):
KUL-AMS MH16 on 30/08/14 - not a spare seat on the aircraft. Sad.

Every week I check fares to DPS from AMS and LHR. MH has always the lowest fare, and really a lot lower. SO full flights are no surprise, but the yields must be horrible.
 
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Mikey86
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:08 am

No surprise for DXB to be dropped. Especially when competing with EK and its frequencies.

I hope they don't cut/drop BNE. It just seems like they took ages to build it up when they de-linked it from Sydney and made if five times a week. Then they increased it to daily.

Regards,

Mikey86
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infinit
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:13 am

Wouldn't this be like MH returning to its original strategy circa 1972?

I read that Malaysia-Singapore Airlines split into the present day MH and SQ because the former wanted to focus on domestic and regional routes while the latter was more interested in long haul
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 17):
They would provide a lot of connecting traffic on flights to and from Europe and also from across Asia.
Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 20):
if you're going sub-daily you are effectively forgoing connectivity to the rest of MH's network and whatever premium connecting traffic MH previously had.

Remember guys - MH overhaul plan seeks reduction in historic reliance on transfer traffic. Airline gets regauged to instead focus on its home and ASEAN market O&D.

I posted details of the approved plan in reply#15 of this thread.
MAS Begins To Outline Restructuring Plans (by LAXintl Aug 29 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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Tommy525
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:56 pm

Maybe Ci and EVA will consider taking the A380s off MAS hands. These two have been saying no to new A380 but maybe a few second hand ones will be workable for a few routes to/from N.America from TPE. Ci and EVA don't want something that big network wise, but if they are not paying much for the frames they probably could use a few on some select routes. Flights to LAX and SFO should work.

OR, maybe Air Asia X will be interested?
 
TreeHillRavens
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting ben175 (Reply 23):
BKI-PER is surely on the chopping block... but then again they did cancel it, bring it back and then upped the frequency in the past 12 months.

Which is a big mystery. The traffic between BKI-ICN is far bigger than BKI-PER but they did not bring BKI-ICN back but instead relaunched BKI-PER. This indirectly suggests that there is something very wrong with those responsible in MAS route planning!

Another route should go is probably BKI-PVG. Horrible arrival time at PVG and Mainland Chinese aren't quite over with MH370 yet (can't blame them).

The BKI-TPE traffic is definitely there but perhaps MAS should re-time the flight to early morning departure ex-BKI instead of TPE. I'm sure the parking fee at any Malaysian airport is cheaper than Taipei-Taoyuan too.

BKI-HKG has always been a stellar performer ex-BKI. While loads have been hit hard post-MH370, i believe the load will eventually pick up again and since good slot at HKG is so hard to come by these days, MAS may have to continue operating this flight at this hard time so not to loss its landing/departure slot for MH384/385.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:18 am

Quoting RamonKok (Reply 3):
Another thing can be the 777, I don't know when they begin the 777 phase out, but West European destinations can not be reached with the A330s they have. That only leaves the A380 as possibility for those destinations, or new planes but none are on order.

That will be the key the future of MH's routes. Aircraft. Let's assume the 777s will be phased out soon as planned (which might not be a bad idea if they are trying to improve their image after the loss of 2 777s) and the A380s are too much plane for West Europe destinations, given the A330 doesn't have the range they only have two options: 1) drop destinations out of range of the A330 and that do not justify an A380, or, 2) order plane types that can make the trip.

We discussed in an earlier thread that MH could probably get the terrible teen 787s for a decent price which would bring West Europe back in range. They could easily fill such planes as their capacity is less than the current 777s on the routes and then they wouldn't need to drop such routes. Operating the new 'Dreamliners' and the world's largest commercial plane - A380 - wouldn't hurt their image (despite not really needing the A380s anyway)...  
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:06 am

I can see MH reducing frequency to both MEL and SYD to 2 X daily, keeping BNE and PER at current frequencies but dropping ADL and DRW.

Overall, it would still give it decent feed into its network, and with strong O&D into markets like MEL from Malaysia, it still offers value to its overall offering.

It may be trying to change ists model to less of a transit focus, but it will still need feed to stay relevant.
 
bunumuring
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:35 am

Malaysian Airlines will survive and everyone understands the need for it to prune its network and refocus. I can see A380s operating into Sydney and possibly Melbourne, if only because they need to fly them somewhere! Sub optimal it may be, but when your back is against the wall...
Bunumuring.
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byronicle6
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:42 am

I wonder what they'll do to AKL after the 777s are retired? Whilst D7 flew to CHC with 330s, another poster in a different thread mentioned that the MH 330s wouldn't have the legs for KUL-AKL.
Surely they wouldn't send an A380 down here. After all, the route has only recently gone daily. Maybe it will end up being a tag on via an Australian port?

[Edited 2014-10-25 04:50:06]
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BestWestern
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:52 pm

BKI to anywhere for MH is pure point to point leisure traffic that tolerates terrible arrival times. I note that their
HK service originates in Kuching.

Their schedule ex HK to KUL needs work - two flights within an hour. Yield on HK to KUL is low for all carriers these days ,CX have N class available three days before departure for peak flights whilst Jakarta or Singapore are far more expensive.
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TreeHillRavens
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:01 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 35):
BKI to anywhere for MH is pure point to point leisure traffic that tolerates terrible arrival times.

Besides its 2x weekly PVG service, the rest of the international flights (HKG, NRT, PER and probably TPE too) have good arrival times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 35):
I note that their HK service originates in Kuching.

Very few passengers from Kuching on MH385 are continuing their journey to HKG. It is the same in the opposite direction. There were talks about dropping MH385/384 from Kuching about two years ago but for some reason, it did not happen.

MH385/384 were full most of the time before March this year. MAS was also getting many connecting passengers from China Eastern Airlines.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 34):

They would probably weight restrict the A333. Not sure what freight they carry ex AKL.
 
varig md-11
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RE: Malaysia Airlines May Drop Six Destinations

Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:33 am

I am sad for CDG but it wouldn't really be a surprise.

The loads are often very good but at 500€ return...when incentives stop then loads tend to go down to 200 pax and below.
For an A380 that's a bit light.

The problem is that MH is in direct competition with the ME3 @ CDG since pax final destination is often SYD MEL BKK AKL DPS.

ME3 recent capacity increase is not helping MH at all
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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos