Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:00 am

Reliable sources have explained that the delayed April /May flying release was needed.
Because WN is giving it's schedule a complete make over.
Apparently everything is being tweaked to make this not only the best on time producing schedule.
But also the best revenue generating schedule in WN history.

Drum roll....

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:03 am

So... there will be 1 new destination, a couple of seasonal adds, and better spacing of flights in MDW, BWI, HOU, LAS, and LAX?

I'm just curious about the 1 new destination that has already been announced that it will be announced... or will this be another announcement that an announcement is forthcoming?
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5061
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:51 am

Want good on time? Increase block time and increase turn time!
 
SWADawg
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:57 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):

No. You hire enough rampers to turn these Airplanes in 25-30 minutes, and get these Airplanes back in the air again where they are making money. WN has known since its inception that Airplanes only earn their cost of capital when they are actually being used to their maximum efficiency. Sometime in 2008, that philosophy changed when the headshed decided to "redifine excellence", their word not mine. Ramp staffing has since been cut to the bone, and now WN has decided to build in more ground time rather than staff the ramp properly. I think this decision will be proven to be the wrong one, and I'm hopeful that ramp staffing will be increased in WN's largest cities in order to start maximizing efficiency again.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
N766UA
Posts: 8354
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:10 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
Increase block time and increase turn time!

Neither of those things sounds either efficient or particularly Southwest-y.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:15 pm

I just posted another thread where a WN execs threatened that GRR was basically in danger of closing if people do not support it.

Connected to this?

WN Exec Has Warning For GRR Future (by enilria Oct 28 2014 in Civil Aviation)
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3147
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:31 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 4):

Southwest hasn't sounded particularly Southwest-y lately.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
unmlobo
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:33 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):


Block and turn times were already increased with the schedule that began operating in August.
Went to school in ABQ, former airline employee. Now living in Dallas
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10446
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
Want good on time? Increase block time and increase turn time!
Quoting SWADawg (Reply 3):
No. You hire enough rampers to turn these Airplanes in 25-30 minutes, and get these Airplanes back in the air again where they are making money.

Agree with the increase in the number of rampers, however, the issue of actually getting the a/c back in the air quickly is moving further and further away from WN's control.
Airport delays due to infrastructure are increasing, even if you push in the 25-30 minutes, at some airports during certain times of the day, the a/c can sit longer waiting to get into the air. Net effect on the arrival side will be an increase in time of flight, whether block or turn, I'm not getting too technical but those delays have to be factored in the time schedules.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:51 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 8):

Those ground delays are already factored into the block time of a flight. I'm only talking about the turn times which have increased over the past six years from 20-25 minute turns to now 45-60 minute scheduled turns. The only way you can get back to WN's more historic average of 20-30 minute turns is to increase ramp staffing to offload and upload bags more efficiently.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5514
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 9):
The only way you can get back to WN's more historic average of 20-30 minute turns is to increase ramp staffing to offload and upload bags more efficiently.

Even with more rampers, WN is never going to get back to regularly doing 20-25 minute turns. The planes are larger and load factors are higher than old WN used to have.

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 3):
Ramp staffing has since been cut to the bone, and now WN has decided to build in more ground time rather than staff the ramp properly.

Relative to the industry, WN ramp staff have gotten more expensive. Something has to give. You want to be at the top of the pay scale, then you are going to have to be the most productive which means staffing gets cut to the bone.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2175
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:02 pm

Southwest just opened a ton of new gates in Denver. It will be interesting to see what they do there.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:19 pm

I posted this in the GRR thread, but also relevant here...


Lowest load WN stations in the last 12 months July 2014
CRP 64%
HRL 65%
JAN 66% Closed Jun2014
BUR 69%
EYW 70% Closed Jun2014
PNS 72%
ELP 73%
MAF 73%
GSP 73%
TUL 73%
BKG 74% Closed Jun2014
GRR 74%
ICT 75%
ECP 76%
BHM 76%

FNT is off the list, but its LF is high mostly because the LAS flight is super-full, but super low yield. So, I'm not sure it's safe.

My guess for at risk stations are: CRP, PNS or ECP, MAF, GSP, GRR, ICT, and FNT. They tend to pick on FL stations, of course, so CRP may survive again...

I also still think they need to decide what to do about CAK vs. CLE. They need to fully commit to one of them post-UA IMHO. There are arguments for either.
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1739
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:44 pm

Longer turn times are needed. Most operational delays seem to be 10 minutes or less. Increase turns to 45 minutes. Longer turn times mean less flights at the end of the day, which mean more excess planes: use those extra planes for low frequency new international routes.

Also, get rid of 25 minute turns. If everything is smooth and perfect, they usually take 11 mins to deplane and 15 to board. You're already 1 minute late by that point. Just my opinion.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
jreuschl
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:45 pm

WN is in an aircraft crunch right? They need all the planes they can get? They probably wouldn't hesitate to be more aggressive chopping a route or even a station.
 
DualQual
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):

Another effect of simply increasing block time is you, by default, extend the scheduled flying times of crews. For the pilots, this will have rest and scheduling implications under FAR117.

Say you have a trip sequence that allows the pilots to be scheduled for 9:00 of flight time. The sequence consists of 3 legs AAA-BBB-MDW-CCC. The three legs add up to 8:30 of scheduled flying. If you increase block time by 10 minutes on legs 1 and 3 and 15 for MDW you can't schedule this particular rotation any more.

Increasing block times for the sake of on time performance should be avoided due to other consequences. Yes, block times do need to be scheduled realistically, and I think by and large they are.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5061
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 4):
Neither of those things sounds either efficient or particularly Southwest-y.

That is the opportunity cost for a #1 on time percentage.
 
oc2dc
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:38 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 6):
Southwest hasn't sounded particularly Southwest-y lately.

Agreed. They seem to be confused about their identity now... I want to say the turning point was purchasing the 738. Clearly it threw off their 20min turn-time model.
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
joeljack
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
I posted this in the GRR thread, but also relevant here...


Lowest load WN stations in the last 12 months July 2014
CRP 64%
HRL 65%
JAN 66% Closed Jun2014
BUR 69%
EYW 70% Closed Jun2014
PNS 72%
ELP 73%
MAF 73%
GSP 73%
TUL 73%
BKG 74% Closed Jun2014
GRR 74%
ICT 75%
ECP 76%
BHM 76%

Do you have the entire list of all stations? I would find that interesting and relevant on which stations might see added flights.
 
User avatar
Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:38 pm

Here are the larger cuts at perimeter cities that were used as stops to get to DAL:

ABQ -12%
ELP -16%
LBB -9%
TUL -18%
LIT -27%

470 total flights a month cut from these cities due to DAL opening up, 240 alone between them and DAL.
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:45 pm

According to reliable sources NO cities will be eliminated.
A lot of tweaking and connecting of the Dots.
Basically a good spring cleaning.
Something likes 20 additional A/c Being added to the schedule.
Giving WN the flexibility to finally after the merger with FL being over to retune there product.
No markets were given just a General you Will be impressed by the results.
A schedule change most WN fans and airline nerds will LUV.

I'm keeping high hopes the puzzle palace doesn't let us down.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:46 pm

The advantage for higher airframe efficiency with shorter turn times has changed in a high fuel/labor cost (i.e. high variable cost) environment. The expensive factor is flying the airplane, not having it sit on the ground. WN has adjusted appropriately over the years.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5061
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:48 pm

The other issue I have noticed in sitting around at WN stations is crew connections. It seems they route their crews separate form their airplanes. So your plane may be on time, but if 2 IB FA's are delayed, you get delayed. That is something you can do better with a good crew plan.
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:00 pm

I think this schedule change isn't about ramp labor cost but more about flexibility during unfortunate events to keep the system on track.
During the last 4 yrs WN had a few SNFU in events its leaders have learned from to help repair Vs just adding to the Snow ball effect.
This last Chicago event had put their new NOC to live test. Surprisingly they handle it great for what it was and the system kept up minus Chicago snfu.
Job well done in my book.
Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14737
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:20 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 9):
Those ground delays are already factored into the block time of a flight. I'm only talking about the turn times which have increased over the past six years from 20-25 minute turns to now 45-60 minute scheduled turns.

To a degree. But when your flight either taxis right to the runway and departs or sits in an hour of gridlock (a description that's not too far off in places like LGA or PHL), where do you put the block time?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
WN is never going to get back to regularly doing 20-25 minute turns. The planes are larger and load factors are higher than old WN used to have.

Agreed, but 30-35 minutes is doable (and routinely done) with full 733s and 73Gs.

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
My guess for at risk stations are: CRP, PNS or ECP, MAF, GSP, GRR, ICT, and FNT. They tend to pick on FL stations, of course, so CRP may survive again...

This is a sensible list. There's an awful lot of money in MAF, and that may help things there, at least unless oil prices moderate and stay there.

[Edited 2014-10-28 11:39:06]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 18):
Do you have the entire list of all stations? I would find that interesting and relevant on which stations might see added flights.

There could be diversion stations in there. This is domestic only. Note that LF is not the only grade of success. DAL is low, but is undoubtedly profitable by a large margin.
CRP 64%
HRL 65%
JAN 66%
BUR 69%
EYW 70%
ELP 73%
MAF 73%
GSP 73%
TUL 73%
BKG 74%
PNS 74%
GRR 74%
ICT 75%
ECP 76%
DCA 76%
BHM 76%
DAL 76%
SJC 76%
RNO 76%
SMF 76%
ONT 77%
BOI 77%
AMA 77%
SDF 77%
OKC 77%
OAK 77%
JAX 78%
SLC 78%
DAY 78%
RIC 78%
LBB 78%
EWR 78%
CAK 78%
ORF 78%
ABQ 79%
RDU 79%
LIT 79%
CLT 79%
HOU 79%
ROC 79%
TUS 79%
SNA 79%
PIT 80%
FNT 80%
CMH 80%
MCI 80%
MKE 80%
STL 80%
MSY 80%
SAT 80%
ATL 80%
BOS 80%
BNA 80%
IAD 80%
IND 81%
PWM 81%
TPA 81%
SFO 81%
OMA 81%
GEG 81%
CHS 82%
MSP 82%
RSW 82%
ALB 82%
CLE 82%
MEM 82%
LAX 83%
BWI 83%
FLL 83%
SJU 83%
PDX 83%
SAN 83%
LGA 83%
PHL 83%
PHX 83%
MCO 83%
AUS 84%
MDW 84%
DTW 84%
BDL 84%
LAS 84%
DSM 85%
DEN 85%
SEA 85%
ISP 86%
PVD 86%
PBI 86%
BUF 87%
MHT 87%

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):

According to reliable sources NO cities will be eliminated.

I don't doubt it, but it sounds like the table is being set for that later on. Yesterday's speech is just one reference recently to such things.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):
A lot of tweaking and connecting of the Dots.

...and disconnecting of the dots I bet. To ATL perhaps?

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):
Something likes 20 additional A/c Being added to the schedule.

How is that possible? What were these 20 planes doing the month before? Sitting in the desert?
 
sdoyon
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:25 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
MHT 87%

Wow! Definitely did not expect to see that--I'm sure much of it (read: most) is connections through BWI.
 
joeljack
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
There could be diversion stations in there. This is domestic only. Note that LF is not the only grade of success. DAL is low, but is undoubtedly profitable by a large margin.

Thanks! DSM is really high at 85%! I wonder if we will finally see DEN added?

Regarding OMA, would expect OMA-LAX to come back based off last year's results. I wonder if it will go year-round of stay some sort of seasonal? I would think March through Labor Day would do just fine.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5761
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:59 pm

I wonder if we'll start seeing some red-eye flying soon. Contracts allow it correct?
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1739
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):
Something likes 20 additional A/c Being added to the schedule.

        

This prospect scares me. 20 AC being added "to the schedule" is way different than 20 AC being added to the FLEET. Last APR/MAY they said that 18 AC were "added to the schedule" and it was disastrous. Planes held out constantly, 20-25 min turns, crews timed out, and Agents were being extended nightly.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
How is that possible? What were these 20 planes doing the month before? Sitting in the desert?

If memory serves me well, Southwest has 8 used 737s in PAE for painting and conversion to company interior, some bought from airlines such as Westjet and LAN, others on their second or third or fourth lease from AWAS. Perhaps more are coming the same way?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:31 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 30):

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
How is that possible? What were these 20 planes doing the month before? Sitting in the desert?

If memory serves me well, Southwest has 8 used 737s in PAE for painting and conversion to company interior, some bought from airlines such as Westjet and LAN, others on their second or third or fourth lease from AWAS. Perhaps more are coming the same way?

OK, maybe there are 8, although 8 simultaneous paint lines seems hard to believe. They could repaint the whole fleet pretty quickly that way.

There's no way there are 20 A/C sitting around...I would hope. That would cost a ton.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 29):

You have to remember that 20-30 A/C on average are currently in MX either used -700's under conversion from third parties or FL -700's also being converted. The lion's share of those mods should be wrapping up by early Jan/Feb. New -800 deliveries are also being front loaded to be taken during the Jan-Apr timeframe. That is where the extra 20 Airplanes worth of flying is coming from.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3122
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:46 pm

[quote=enilria,reply=12]I posted this in the GRR thread, but also relevant here...


Lowest load WN stations in the last 12 months July 2014
CRP 64%
HRL 65%
JAN 66% Closed Jun2014
BUR 69%
EYW 70% Closed Jun2014
PNS 72%
ELP 73%
MAF 73%
GSP 73%
TUL 73%
BKG 74% Closed Jun2014
GRR 74%
ICT 75%
ECP 76%
BHM 76%




Burbank really surprises me from that list. Too much frequency perhaps?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 32):
You have to remember that 20-30 A/C on average are currently in MX either used -700's under conversion from third parties or FL -700's also being converted. The lion's share of those mods should be wrapping up by early Jan/Feb. New -800 deliveries are also being front loaded to be taken during the Jan-Apr timeframe. That is where the extra 20 Airplanes worth of flying is coming from.

If that is true they are going to have an awful 1Q with that many aircraft out of service. There CASM will be terrible.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting johnboy (Reply 33):
Burbank really surprises me from that list. Too much frequency perhaps?

That surprised me too, but I think it reflects the continued marginalization of BUR in the market. B6 converted LGB into West Coast only pretty much, WN keeps grabbing SNA slots and has to fly them, LAX has a ton of new service, and ONT is holding its own. I think BUR is probably just on the losing end of all of that, although I haven't looked at their enplanements, so prove me wrong.
 
klm672
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 6:09 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:10 pm

Was THIS the announcement from a few weeks ago?
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):

The remaining FL cconversions are done + used additions + new delivers and schedule mx done freeing up aircraft all coming on line in April and May plus the reworked schedule adds about
20 new aircraft for revenue flying.

WN is good about finding available used aircraft.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:29 pm

Would be nice to see CLT-DEN added for a spring start.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
CalTex
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:39 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
CRP 64%
BUR 69%
SJC 76%
SMF 76%
ONT 77%
OAK 77%
SNA 79%
SFO 81%
LAX 83%
SAN 83%

BUR is truly in a league of its own compared to all the other California airports.

Quoting johnboy (Reply 33):
Burbank really surprises me from that list. Too much frequency perhaps?

Could be. A quick comparison between WN's schedules today at BUR and neighbor ONT:

BUR
13x LAS
10x OAK
7x PHX
7x SJC
7x SMF
1x DEN

ONT
7x OAK
7x SMF
6x PHX
5x LAS
4x SJC
2x DEN
1x MDW

Quoting enilria (Reply 35):
although I haven't looked at their enplanements, so prove me wrong.

These are total enplanements for 2013:

LGB 1,438,756, down 7.47% from previous year
BUR 1,918,011, down 5.39%
ONT 1,970,538, down 8.02%

SNA: 4,540,628, up 3.64%
LAX: 32,425,892, up 3.51%

For the most part, it looks like you're right. LAX and SNA continue to grow while LGB, BUR, and ONT decline.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2163
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:50 pm

maybe they will actually start to refer to hubs as hubs and start banking some flights? I still can't understand their decision to scale back ATL...other than BNA (and I think they only have around some 80 flights) they really have no true large focus city/hub in the southeast in the same vein as they have BWI (mid atlantic and northeast), MDW (midwest) DEN (intermountain west) and PHX/LAS (southwest/leisure O&D). ATL could have been this had they structured it correctly. I still scratch my head on this.
 
swacle
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:41 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:15 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 9):
Those ground delays are already factored into the block time of a flight. I'm only talking about the turn times which have increased over the past six years from 20-25 minute turns to now 45-60 minute scheduled turns. The only way you can get back to WN's more historic average of 20-30 minute turns is to increase ramp staffing to offload and upload bags more efficiently.

In my experience, the problem has not been the ramp not able to unload/reload in 25 minutes, but rather the inability to get 143 pax off and back on in 25 minutes. 25 minutes worked well with 65% load factors in the past but does not work particularly well with 85%+ load factors.....
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
How is that possible? What were these 20 planes doing the month before? Sitting in the desert?

He means well, but most of the WN rumors the OP has shared in the past have turned out to be... well, rumors  .
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8801
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:41 am

Somehow I don't think schedulers went to the execs earlier this year and said, 'Oh, yeah, this will screw up the airline really good. Poor on-time performance, passengers stranded overnight, extra flight cancellations from timed-out crews... we put it all in there.'

Every schedule put forward is 'the best ever done,' to some unspecified metrics.

In the absence of reasoning for new principles being applied, or new priorities set, and examples how these change the schedule, this thread (and the others like it) are pretty much school boy stuff: my dog is better than your dog.
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):

WN is good about finding available used aircraft.

Not that good as there are about 15 low time 700's (most with winglets) still available
 
wnflyguy
Topic Author
Posts: 2093
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:58 am

WN network planning does a good job with tools they have building each release. Ya my Armchair fantasy schedule planner self would have liked sseeing different results sometimes. But like it or not you have to admit they do a good job. There track record proves it. Honestly in the 30+ yrs I've followed WN they have had only 1 snfu. The meltdown in the schedule had to do with staffing issues more than anything else. Way to many work groups without contracts ontop of a merger just don't have the what ever it takes drive right now.But honestly hopefully WN quickly mend fences and get this new International WN back to maverick status.

Still excited for what the future new WN will bring.

Flyguy

[Edited 2014-10-28 19:00:33]
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
routeplanner
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:42 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 42):
He means well, but most of the WN rumors the OP has shared in the past have turned out to be... well, rumors

This is probably the most intelligent comment on this thread.
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:21 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 34):
If that is true they are going to have an awful 1Q with that many aircraft out of service. There CASM will be terrible.

WN always has about 40 a/c out of service at a time for maintenance, but I think the poster meant that several "new" aircraft are coming online beginning with the second half of the year... Also, HOU international will be starting at the end of the 3Q or beginning of 4Q so I'm sure there will be even more aircraft finding their way to WN. GK kept saying that once WN hit 15% ROIC, WN would grow again and it is up to 19% ROIC. We will see.

Quoting swacle (Reply 41):
In my experience, the problem has not been the ramp not able to unload/reload in 25 minutes, but rather the inability to get 143 pax off and back on in 25 minutes. 25 minutes worked well with 65% load factors in the past but does not work particularly well with 85%+ load factors.....

actually, more often than not, it is 143 passengers sitting on an aircraft waiting for a bin slip.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 42):
He means well, but most of the WN rumors the OP has shared in the past have turned out to be... well, rumors

Very similar to enilria's predictions regarding WN...
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
tylersmithsjc
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:52 am

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
DEN 85%

Amazing to see that they have built DEN up in such a short period of time.

Quoting enilria (Reply 25):
SJC 76%

Anyone have any idea why SJC is so low? Could it be part of DL stepping in on the SEA route? WN had a hold on SJC for as long as AA closed up shop.
SJC/CLD
 
Flymichael21
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:59 pm

RE: WN Biggest Schedule Change Ever Coming Nov 10th.

Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:32 am

Quite curious on what will be heard of on November 10.

Many of you all have said increase turn times, suggesting hire more ramp staffing.

I am not sure of the current WN staffing numbers on ramp, gates, etc, but this is my opinion:

As recent as summer 2013, I was an Aircraft Load Agent (still with the airlines, different job) turning 737s, and MD80s, faster than the gate agents were.

During the summer when everything was full, I with 3 to 4 other rampers, could easily turn a fully loaded flight in 25 minutes. It was rare to have the gate agents go faster.

It is simple, it takes pax forever! to get off and on the aircraft. You need increased turn times to allow for pax off, and pax back on.

Again, my opinion.

-Michael

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos