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Qatara340
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Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:37 pm

Quote:
Qatar Airways intends to fly between Barcelona and Latin America. During the Aviation Partnership Summit, Akbar Al Baker – CEO of the airline – confirmed that they would do that only in the case that Iberia and the other Oneworld airlines were in agreement.

.

Qatar Airways wants to use Barcelona as a hub since Madrid already hosts the main base for Iberia. They want to do a code-sharing agreement with BA/IB. Moreover in November 16, they will increase their Madrid flights from 7 to 10 flights, and because of the lack of aircraft, they will make it twice daily next year.

Qatar recently signed an agreement with Vueling to boost passengers between the two airlines.

http://www.flightconsulting.com/qata...na-latin-america-agreement-iberia/
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Qatar Airways wants to use Barcelona as a hub since Madrid already hosts the main base for Iberia.

Sure. Who doesn't at this point.   
I don't take responsibility at all
 
stlgph
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:50 pm

oh...this is gonna be good.
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Miami
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:07 pm

Funny how Emirates said the same thing not too long ago.

Emirates Interested In Barcelona Hub (by Miami Oct 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)
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G500
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:43 pm

Oh where would the gulf carriers be without Europe's generosity. They're gonna milk the European cow until it drops

Horrible news for Iberia and LAN.
 
sq452
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:47 pm

SQ better get ready to play defense on BCN>GRU; that flight alone will not be able to survive if there is head-to-head competition on the route from a OneWorld partner codesharing with IB in BCN.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
seansasLCY
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 4):
Oh where would the gulf carriers be without Europe's generosity. They're gonna milk the European cow until it drops

Horrible news for Iberia and LAN.

Did you read the first post?

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):

Qatar Airways wants to use Barcelona as a hub since Madrid already hosts the main base for Iberia. They want to do a code-sharing agreement with BA/IB.

"Akbar Al Baker – CEO of the airline – confirmed that they would do that only in the case that Iberia and the other Oneworld airlines were in agreement."

Therefore they would only do it with the wishes of IB/LAN.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:00 pm

So when is QR going twice daily to MAD?

MAD-Middle East has exploded in the last three to four years.

Quoting G500 (Reply 4):
Oh where would the gulf carriers be without Europe's generosity. They're gonna milk the European cow until it drops

Horrible news for Iberia and LAN.

There is nothing about Europe's generosity. It is all about Catalonian politics trying to blame on the Spanish government their lack of LATAM services from BCN compared to MAD. This all about getting some headlines in the newspapers for political interest.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 5):
SQ better get ready to play defense on BCN>GRU; that flight alone will not be able to survive if there is head-to-head competition on the route from a OneWorld partner codesharing with IB in BCN.

TAM (a Oneworld member) is starting GRU-BCN next summer.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 5):
SQ better get ready to play defense on BCN>GRU; that flight alone will not be able to survive if there is head-to-head competition on the route from a OneWorld partner codesharing with IB in BCN.

SQ may have less feed but much higher quality reputation any of the potential parties involved : QR IB JJ LA
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:07 pm

Its all part of the effort by BCN to attract service.

Remember 2-weeks ago EK was also looking at staging flights via BCN

Emirates Interested In Barcelona Hub (by Miami Oct 10 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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airmale
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:18 pm

Yes of course
And what about Athens-New York? You wanted to fly that as well, Mr Al Baker...... but nothing happened since
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UALWN
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:36 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 7):
It is all about Catalonian politics trying to blame on the Spanish government their lack of LATAM services from BCN compared to MAD. This all about getting some headlines in the newspapers for political interest.

Wrong. You were wrong when you said this concerning EK and you are dead wrong yet again. This has absolutely nothing to do with "Catalonian politics." If you were following the politics in Barcelona, you would know that people here have quite a few other things to worry about. As for "headlines," well, if you do a quick "Qatar Barcelona Sudamerica" Google search, you will find nothing at all in the local newspapers, except for a one-year-old piece of news, in which QR is quoted as wanting to link BCN to BOG and MEX starting in 2015.
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SCQ83
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 11):

No need to get overexcited.

The Qatar long-haul BCN thing dates back to Spanair when it was said QR had an interest to take a stake there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...ainair-qatar-idUSL5E8CR21K20120127

Now with QR in Oneworld and the new VY interline, "Qatar to LATAM strikes back".
 
migair54
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:15 pm

Again.... It´s not going to happen.

This is just Catalunya trying to attract some long haul into home, but I can´t see IB accepting this, otherwise they could have done themselves long ago and why are they going to give them the feed out to BCN instead of getting their own pax via MAD??? this is a non sense. I believe more the one EK was planning than this one.

If they want to codeshare with IB-BA to South America they can just fly more to MAD and give the pax to IB, that is how IB and QR can make a good business.
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 11):
This has absolutely nothing to do with "Catalonian politics." If you were following the politics in Barcelona, you would know that people here have quite a few other things to worry about.

        

Agreed. It's Qatar Airways that wants to build a hub (rather a focus city operation) at BCN, not Catalonia itself. I don't know why every single time that a thread about BCN emerges on this forum, Catalonian politics quickly become a part of it.




.

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Qatar Airways intends to fly between Barcelona and Latin America. During the Aviation Partnership Summit, Akbar Al Baker – CEO of the airline – confirmed that they would do that only in the case that Iberia and the other Oneworld airlines were in agreement.

Interesting. If Qatar Airways succeeds in setting up a focus city operation at BCN, which would be the the most likely destinations in Latin America they would fly to ? IMHO, GRU is out of the question since QR already flies there, while MEX could be a very good candidate. Of course, the Mexican Government would have to grant Qatar 5th Freedom Rights.
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
UALWN
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:02 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 13):
This is just Catalunya trying to attract some long haul into home

No. This is just QR's CEO talking at a trade show in Madrid. No more, no less.
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pipeafcr
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:55 am

Norwegian has stated the same but I doubt that any airline will do so in the short run. Though the market is there, I'm skeptical about the airlines actually carrying out the operations.   
Felipe Carrillo
 
r2rho
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:15 am

The thread title is misleading, it's just about Al Baker talking about things on his wish list. Before QR can fly from BCN, several things would have to happen, among which 5th freedom rights granted - not just by Spain, but by the destination countries. And 5th freedom is the maximum they'll get - so no hub but a focus operation or SQ-like scissor routes.
We had this discussion with EK a few weeks ago, this is the same story all over again. Except that with OW cooperation and VY feed, the QR operation would make more sense than EK's.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 7):
MAD-Middle East has exploded in the last three to four years

IB doesn't fly to Asia and in general connections to Asia from MAD were quite poor. In this case, the ME3 have simply picked up a market that nobody was seriously serving previously.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 14):
I don't know why every single time that a thread about BCN emerges on this forum, Catalonian politics quickly become a part of it.

Because unfortunately when talking about Catalonia, it is impossible to separate anything from politics.. :-/
 
UALWN
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:53 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 17):
Because unfortunately when talking about Catalonia, it is impossible to separate anything from politics.. :-/

Really? Why is it impossible? Maybe it is only impossible for some people here, who, incidentally, do not live in Catalonia...
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BA0197
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:02 pm

Can someone explain to me the technicalities in why airlines like QR (and any other airline that seems to want to) are entitled to fly routes like this from Europe to xxx? I seem to remember that the USA does have flights like this (Qantas' SYD-LAX-JFK for example) but it does not allow pax to be picked up in LAX. I also know BA has quite a few 5th freedom flights in the Caribbean and a select few others elsewhere where BA can pick up local pax. Is it the government that decides how far they will allow airlines to proceed with these flights?
 
migair54
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:27 pm

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 19):
Is it the government that decides how far they will allow airlines to proceed with these flights?

5th freedom is decided by both, origin and destination country when the airlines does not belong to any of the countries, like for example fligths from BKK to HKG or SIN-Australia, or in this case Spain and Mexico, so it´s not only one side.

Recently we have seen EK getting permits to fly MXP-JFK, SQ on BCN-GRU (because JK was behind).

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 19):
I seem to remember that the USA does have flights like this (Qantas' SYD-LAX-JFK for example) but it does not allow pax to be picked up in LAX.

This is not 5th freedom, this is called cabotage, very few countries allow foreign airlines to operate domestic routes, basically to promote/protect local airlines. But it can allowed in some cases.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 17):
IB doesn't fly to Asia and in general connections to Asia from MAD were quite poor. In this case, the ME3 have simply picked up a market that nobody was seriously serving previously.

The market was there but for IB it was difficult market given Spain position in Europe, nowadays it has been proved a very profitable one with 2 daily EK, 10 weekly QR and plenty of TK, RJ, MS, EY, now with QR in OW i think we will never see IB East of DOH.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 17):
We had this discussion with EK a few weeks ago, this is the same story all over again. Except that with OW cooperation and VY feed, the QR operation would make more sense than EK's.

Maybe, but why would IB allow VY to feed QR out of BCN to fly to destinations that IB serves directly from MAD?? I don´t see it.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 17):
IB doesn't fly to Asia and in general connections to Asia from MAD were quite poor. In this case, the ME3 have simply picked up a market that nobody was seriously serving previously.

It is not only the ME3 but Turkish and even Saudia have easily duplicated seats. Back in 2011 (3-4 years ago) MAD to Middle East (and Air China to PEK and Thai to BKK were already flown; the only Far East routes from MAD) looked like:

QR: 7-10 weekly. QR started DOH via FCO back in 2009 three weekly.
SV: 2 weekly to both each JED and RUH via MXP with a A320
TK: about 2 daily with narrow-bodies.
MS: daily narrow-body
RJ: 3-4xw narrow-body

In 2015 it will look like:

EK: 2 daily wide-bodies
QR: 2 daily wide-bodies
EY: 1 daily wide-body
SV: 4 weekly to both each RUH and JED non-stop with a mix of A320/B777
TK: 3 daily with a mix of narrow and wide bodies
PC: 1 daily narrow-body
ET: 3 weekly B787 via FCO
MS: daily (?) narrow-body
RJ: 3-4xw narrow-body

Air India to DEL and China Eastern to PVG have announced plans for MAD, so they are likely to start in 2015 or 16.

[Edited 2014-10-30 06:30:56]
 
r2rho
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:58 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 20):
The market was there but for IB it was difficult market given Spain position in Europe, nowadays it has been proved a very profitable one with 2 daily EK, 10 weekly QR and plenty of TK, RJ, MS, EY, now with QR in OW i think we will never see IB East of DOH.

Agree the market was there but only until the Middle East airlines stepped in, now it's too late for them to enter. In hindsight, had IB entered Asia we would now be talking about another EU carrier bleeding money on those routes versus the ME3.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 20):
why would IB allow VY to feed QR out of BCN to fly to destinations that IB serves directly from MAD?? I don´t see it.

Agree - IB would only allow such a move if it doesn't bleed pax away from MAD, otherwise it would hurt overall connectivity. There are a handful of routes with enough BCN O&D that could justify that. And if they establish a JV with QR for them, it could be acceptable.
 
LH526
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:00 pm

QR is about the hold F/A castings in SCL in November ... may that has anything to do with QR operations into South America?
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enilria
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 6):
"Akbar Al Baker – CEO of the airline – confirmed that they would do that only in the case that Iberia and the other Oneworld airlines were in agreement."

Therefore they would only do it with the wishes of IB/LAN.

So this is like saying "We will make a mission to Mars in 2015, if we can find a suitable rocket already built." IAG would NEVER agree to this.
 
migair54
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:16 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 24):
QR is about the hold F/A castings in SCL in November ... may that has anything to do with QR operations into South America?

They do in many places, but obviously sooner than later we will see them in SCL, I think we will not see a direct flight but maybe via GRU or GIG, IMO via GIG will be more possible because GRU is a bigger market that can work alone easily, I´m not sure if DOH-EZE-SCL could work also.

I don´t see any logic in doing DOH-BCN-SCL, if the market could work i´m sure LA or IB could have started long ago.
 
UALWN
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 25):
I don´t see any logic in doing DOH-BCN-SCL, if the market could work i´m sure LA or IB could have started long ago.

Well, SQ operates (SIN-)BCN-GRU and it seems to work. Yet, LA (or JJ before) never tried. IB tried for about six months and left. Now LA will try again. What I mean to say is that just because it hasn't been tried before it is not a foregone conclusion that the route does not have any logic. Having said that, BCN-SCL looks indeed very iffy. But there's no reason to believe QR would target SCL from BCN. In the press releases from a year ago, QR actually mentioned BCN-MEX, which MX used to fly, and BCN-BOG, which AV does fly.
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3rdGen
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting lh526 (Reply 23):
QR is about the hold F/A castings in SCL in November ... may that has anything to do with QR operations into South America?

QR has FAs from all over SA (Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Columbia etc.), they also have FA from the Caribbean and other destinations QR do not fly to, doesn't mean that they are going to fly there. In any case with SA any Spanish speaker will do, you don't really need someone from the country itself. The advantage of South Americans is that they are ready to come to QR because the salary is quite high compared to what they get back home, and they are perfect for flights to Spain, of which there are quite a few.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
94717
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:44 pm

South America can need competition.

I fly frequent to Chile and lack of competition keeps prices up.

Good for the companies bad for consumer.
 
Tkfan
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 21):

Just recently the CEO of TK said they will increase MAD to 5 daily (4xIST 1xSAW) in 2015.

Link in turkish only:
m.airporthaber.com/read.php?id=51069

[Edited 2014-10-30 11:09:30]
 
migair54
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 26):
Well, SQ operates (SIN-)BCN-GRU and it seems to work. Yet, LA (or JJ before) never tried. IB tried for about six months and left. Now LA will try again. What I mean to say is that just because it hasn't been tried before it is not a foregone conclusion that the route does not have any logic. Having said that, BCN-SCL looks indeed very iffy. But there's no reason to believe QR would target SCL from BCN. In the press releases from a year ago, QR actually mentioned BCN-MEX, which MX used to fly, and BCN-BOG, which AV does fly.

My point was that for QR is not logic to do so because it´s a huge detour, they can serve SCL via GIG, GRU or EZE, however for SQ, it was one of the few points where they can attract some local traffic plus the one they already have on board and the other only option was via JNB, but SA already flies the route, so i´m sure it was close to impossible to get the rights on it.

I agree that BCN could have some more long range routes and I think if IB could have operated A332 few years ago they might have tried because it was a much better plane for the mission, with the old fleet they had nothing to do, they could have done some weekly flights to EZE, BOG, MEX specially after the success of VY in BCN airport.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 27):
QR has FAs from all over SA (Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Columbia etc.), they also have FA from the Caribbean and other destinations QR do not fly to, doesn't mean that they are going to fly there. In any case with SA any Spanish speaker will do, you don't really need someone from the country itself. The advantage of South Americans is that they are ready to come to QR because the salary is quite high compared to what they get back home, and they are perfect for flights to Spain, of which there are quite a few.

True, even many South East Asian countries and former CCCP area, places where the rent per capita is lower and finding a decent job is not that easy. Emirates and Etihad also.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 26):
QR actually mentioned BCN-MEX, which MX used to fly,

It was AM, not MX. MX barely made it to MAD and LGW and that did not last very long because they had to shut down. AM launched BCN but due to the global financial crisis and the crash of the Spanish economy they decided to cancel the service. If IB does not launch BCN-MEX and no Middle East carrier obtains fifth freedom rights to do XXX-BCN-MEX, I am sure AM will be back to BCN soon once more Dreamliners arrive.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 30):
I agree that BCN could have some more long range routes and I think if IB could have operated A332 few years ago they might have tried because it was a much better plane for the mission, with the old fleet they had nothing to do, they could have done some weekly flights to EZE, BOG, MEX specially after the success of VY in BCN airport

IB has traditionally marketed BCN-MAD-MEX with the same flight number (although a change of planes is required). I really don't think IB is looking seriously at opening BCN-MEX nonstop in the short or medium term. I personaly think it is a mistake. Did IB receive A332s or only A333s?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
SCQ83
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:07 pm

Quoting tkfan (Reply 29):
Just recently the Chairman of TK said they will increase MAD to 5 daily (4xIST 1xSAW) in 2015. Depending on aircraft availability.

I had heard about that. It would mean 7 daily flights Madrid-Istanbul in summer (4 TK IST, 1 IB IST, 1 TK SAW, 1 PC SAW). And on top PC to BCN and TK to BCN, AGP, VLC, BIO & SCQ.

Considering the weak VFR and business links between the two countries it is quite impressive.
 
UALWN
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RE: Qatar Airways To Fly From Barcelona To S America

Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 31):
It was AM, not MX.

Thanks for the correction.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
I had heard about that. It would mean 7 daily flights Madrid-Istanbul in summer (4 TK IST, 1 IB IST, 1 TK SAW, 1 PC SAW). And on top PC to BCN and TK to BCN, AGP, VLC, BIO & SCQ.

TK flies three times daily IST-BCN, one of them on an A332.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
Considering the weak VFR and business links between the two countries it is quite impressive.

People go to IST to connect to Asia and Africa. I've done it myself a couple of times, and people on the BCN-IST flights were continuing to places like TAS, KUL, SIN, JNB, etc. TK is cheap, the onboard service is quite good, and their lounge at IST is the best I have ever been in.
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