adtall
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 39):
there's been very little LCC advancement there.

Can you say Airtran/WN? You're actually ignoring the second hub/whatever it is now carrier at ATL? That's interesting. Let alone Spirit and Frontier and their presences.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 39):
Arguments that the location or road access will cause to fail are weak. For one, infrastructure can and will be improved if needed.

Let me just include a link to Google Maps to show you where this is and how far away from anything this is, since you're from MSP and might not know the area.

http://www.google.com/maps/place/Pau...88acd2b36df6005:0x8e2b34584742b9b6

This is in the middle of nowhere, basically Mirabel to Dorval with no limitations for ATL (the Dorval here). The master plan Jetlanta linked spells this lack of limitations out rather clearly. Also, you may not know that there are county lines between the airport and the interstate, so absent an inter-county agreement (and GA counties don't play nicely) or state intervention (insert laughter) there won't be any infrastructure improvements, especially with metro Atlanta's laundry list of transportation issues.
 
adtall
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:04 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 12):
By voters I'll assume you mean the 232 voters (or 1.3% of registered voters in Precinct 2) that voted for Patti Smith? or the 1171 voters (6.2% of registered voters in P3) that voted for Vernon Collett. This was a very LOW turnout election which shows that the people were not passionate one way or the other on the issues.

Um, you realize that election is a primary election, not a general, and this isn't a presidential year? Of course turnout is low. When they held a special election over whether to allow Sunday sales of alcohol in the county, it was a turnout of 2.14% in a much more general interest issue. This really proves nothing other than Paulding county voters don't turn out in non-presidential primaries, much like everywhere else.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting adtall (Reply 51):

Um, you realize that election is a primary election, not a general, and this isn't a presidential year?

Yeah but if Paulding County is so against this new airport expansion, don't you think they'd take a few minutes of their time to vote in the non-expansion candidate?? In Post 2, it was very ANTI-COMMERCIALIZATION candidate Patti Smith vs PRO-COMMERCIALIZATION candidate Patton (Pat) Hughes. It just shows that there is not alot of concern (not enough to vote to stop it) about making sure anti-commercialization candidates win. We couldn't get 10-15% of the public to care enough to come out??
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mayor
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:32 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 49):
flying prop planes everywhere.

WHAT????????? DL has been using ATL as a hub since '55 and with all JETS since the late 60s (with the exception of the L100 freighters). The ONLY other prop planes used by a "Delta" regional were Brasilias and ATR-72s and that's been quite awhile since those were used in ATL.

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 52):
Yeah but if Paulding County is so against this new airport expansion, don't you think they'd take a few minutes of their time to vote in the non-expansion candidate?? In Post 2, it was very ANTI-COMMERCIALIZATION candidate Patti Smith vs PRO-COMMERCIALIZATION candidate Patton (Pat) Hughes. It just shows that there is not alot of concern (not enough to vote to stop it) about making sure anti-commercialization candidates win. We couldn't get 10-15% of the public to care enough to come out??

You do realize that Americans, no matter where they are living, are pretty apathetic towards elections, especially in an off year and especially in special elections? Sounds to me like the Pro people weren't doing enough, connecting with voters, to garner enough votes to win. Part of the blame goes to them.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:05 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
WHAT????????? DL has been using ATL as a hub since '55 and with all JETS since the late 60s (with the exception of the L100 freighters). The ONLY other prop planes used by a "Delta" regional were Brasilias and ATR-72s and that's been quite awhile since those were used in ATL.

You know your right, that was an unfair untrue statement, I apologize

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
You do realize that Americans, no matter where they are living, are pretty apathetic towards elections, especially in an off year and especially in special elections? Sounds to me like the Pro people weren't doing enough, connecting with voters, to garner enough votes to win. Part of the blame goes to them.

Yes, part of the blame goes to them, but to say that Paulding County doesn't want the commerical airport, we have no data to back that up because the feelings of even 10% of the citizens weren't represented.
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beeweel15
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:27 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 44):
Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 43):

They doing it right now in SEA with Alaska. They just destroyed T3 at JFK airport and threw the entire airport into chaos with available terminal space which forces airlines current and new to alter their plans to operate to NYC. T4 was once the best terminal at JFK now it is the worst since DL moved in and wrecked the place.

You do realize that JFK airport and the Port Authority had an awful lot to do with that, don't you? Delta didn't just arrive one day and start tearing the terminal apart.

Well the PA did have a hand in the matter but considering the amount of money spent to wreck T4 DL could have revamped T3 with a connector to T4. Most folks wanted T2 taken down because it serves no real purpose and is a safety hazard when it comes to operations at T1. Besides most just wanted the front part of T3 preserved.

Quoting mayor (Reply 44):
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 39):

DL wants every other airline to compete directly with them at ATL. That way they face every disadvantage of ATL as well (delays, congestion, expense) and allows DL to directly compete city pair to city pair.

Isn't that what competition IS?

No not when you are forcing someone to come to your house when they know they will get second class service when they can just go across the street for first class service. If a smaller airline want to serve a smaller airport then let them and let DL keep ATL to itself. Give me one reason why travelers in ATL should have no choice in what airport they want to fly out of.
 
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mayor
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 54):
feelings of even 10% of the citizens weren't represented.

And whose fault is that? Is it DL's fault that no one wants to vote or is it the voters' fault because they're too damn apathetic to vote?

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 55):

No not when you are forcing someone to come to your house when they know they will get second class service when they can just go across the street for first class service. If a smaller airline want to serve a smaller airport then let them and let DL keep ATL to itself. Give me one reason why travelers in ATL should have no choice in what airport they want to fly out of.

I've got an idea! How about, if they don't want to fly out of ATL, then they take Greyhound? No one is twisting their arms to fly.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:01 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 56):
And whose fault is that? Is it DL's fault that no one wants to vote or is it the voters' fault because they're too damn apathetic to vote?

Yep, it is the voters faults. I never said it had anything to do with DL just that because they were apatheic we don't know. We can't really say one way or the other whether Paulding County wants a commerical airport or not.
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mayor
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:17 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 57):

Yep, it is the voters faults. I never said it had anything to do with DL just that because they were apatheic we don't know. We can't really say one way or the other whether Paulding County wants a commerical airport or not.

There IS one sure way to find out...............................VOTE!!  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:33 pm

And Atlanta, Georgia welcomes the Wright Amendment to it's fair city.   
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 59):
And Atlanta, Georgia welcomes the Wright Amendment to it's fair city.

Not to mention it sued to be able to stay at DAL. Whats wrong with DFW, there's plenty of room LOL
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Jerseyguy
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:16 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 58):
There IS one sure way to find out...............................VOTE!!

I can't do that I'm not a resident of Paulding County and although I am what Southwest would call a Customer of Size, I would not represent the feelings of even 10% of the county.
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mayor
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:53 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 61):
can't do that I'm not a resident of Paulding County and although I am what Southwest would call a Customer of Size, I would not represent the feelings of even 10% of the county.

Neither am I.......I was referring to the residents of Paulding Co.

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 60):
Not to mention it sued to be able to stay at DAL.

Not to mention that the airport authority at DAL and the Dallas Mayor's office screwed the pooch on that whole deal.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
catiii
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:06 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 56):

Now Mayor, I have tremendous respect for you and your years of service at DL, but you have to admit that DL is talking out of both sides of their mouths here. Aside from glossing over the fact, under the guise of "taxpayer protection, that Propeller Investments is seeking to operate Paulding as a P3 (like SJU is operated) and not in the way ATL, for example, is operated, the most glaring hypocrisy from DL is in this notion that ATL is competitively served solely out of ATL where, oh by the way, they have a monopoly. Suddenly a monopoly is okay, when a mere few weeks ago at DAL Delta was apoplectic over their lack of access. They really can't have it both ways...
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 33):
You can add more gates, but there's no good way to add any additional runways. The sixth runway is a pipe dream that will never happen.

I'm willing to put 100 bucks on that right now. You in or no?
 
catiii
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 64):

I'm with you. The 6th runway would actually be an easy add in...
 
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mayor
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:02 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 63):

Quoting mayor (Reply 56):

Now Mayor, I have tremendous respect for you and your years of service at DL, but you have to admit that DL is talking out of both sides of their mouths here. Aside from glossing over the fact, under the guise of "taxpayer protection, that Propeller Investments is seeking to operate Paulding as a P3 (like SJU is operated) and not in the way ATL, for example, is operated, the most glaring hypocrisy from DL is in this notion that ATL is competitively served solely out of ATL where, oh by the way, they have a monopoly. Suddenly a monopoly is okay, when a mere few weeks ago at DAL Delta was apoplectic over their lack of access. They really can't have it both ways...

It's apples and oranges, though. In the case of DAL, DL is being thrown out, after being an incumbent AND after the mayor's office had promised DL that they would do everything possible to allow DL to keep operating out of DAL. The situation at ATL is nothing like that, at all. Matter of fact, even thought it's a "monopoly" what has DL done to keep other airlines from operating out of ATL? Nothing. DL's "monopoly" at ATL is even less of one, percentage wise, that that of WN at DAL and yet WN gets away with it.

In any event, the two situations you mentioned are completely different.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:22 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 65):

not even that its cause its easy. Its because the the city has already said it is happening.
 
twinotter
Posts: 222
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:01 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 66):
It's apples and oranges, though. In the case of DAL, DL is being thrown out, after being an incumbent AND after the mayor's office had promised DL that they would do everything possible to allow DL to keep operating out of DAL.

Earlier in this thread you said Delta might oppose the new airport because they would have to compete. ("DL might not want to have to compete with them at the same airport, thereby making a split operation necessary.")

If what you said makes sense, wouldn't being thrown out of DAL be a good thing? They would not have to compete there either and run a split operation. Right?

BTW, how does ORH compare to this ATL area airport?
 
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mayor
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Quoting twinotter (Reply 68):
Earlier in this thread you said Delta might oppose the new airport because they would have to compete. ("DL might not want to have to compete with them at the same airport, thereby making a split operation necessary.")

If what you said makes sense, wouldn't being thrown out of DAL be a good thing? They would not have to compete there either and run a split operation. Right?

I would imagine every situation is different. DL sees a market out of DAL but doesn't see one out of Paulding. Whatever it is, in this case, there's no comparison as it's two entirely different situations.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 68):

BTW, how does ORH compare to this ATL area airport?

I'm afraid I don't understand this reference to Worcester, MA........????
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 69):
DL sees a market out of DAL but doesn't see one out of Paulding.

Ok,then no one is forcing DL to operate out of Paulding (KPUJ), so whats the problem. Delta continues at ATL, Allegiant goes to KPUJ. According to the way DL thinks about it, G4 will fail at KPUJ, so let them fail. If blocking the airport is so right admit they are the mystery benefactor and stand up for what they believe in. Either that or stop interfering.
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AST1Driver
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RE: DOT Looks Into DL Blocking Of Paulding Co Airport

Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:18 am

Slightly off topic, but what if any governmental requirements would PUJ and its airport authority have to meet to transfer from a general aviation airport to commercial traffic? Obviously it is going to require more than just extending the runway and adding a jetway or two. Perimeter fencing and security? TSA? Established traffic patterns for approach and departure? I am sure there is a lot involved with this. It seems more often that commercial airports revert to general aviation as they lose service.

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