dcaviation
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Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:11 pm

Plane just crashed into building at Wichita Mid-Continental airport.
 
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KPDX
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:14 pm

Initial reports indicate a King Air plane hit the Flight Safety building at the airport.
 
micstatic
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:17 pm

anyone have a tail number?
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
FlexJetOKC
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:21 pm

Possibly an Eaglemed C-90

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EMD1
Above the planet on a wing and a prayer, my grubby halo, a vapour trail in the empty air...
 
micstatic
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:23 pm

S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
FlexJetOKC
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:26 pm

EDIT 1527Z-Eagle Med has confirmed that all airplanes are accounted for.

[Edited 2014-10-30 08:27:45]

1528Z Update:
Per FAA-the King Air was taking off from the airport and had some type of issue prompting a return. When they tried to land, they struck a building.


[Edited 2014-10-30 08:29:33]

It looks like it is indeed N846BE which is a King Air 300.


[Edited 2014-10-30 08:30:25]
Above the planet on a wing and a prayer, my grubby halo, a vapour trail in the empty air...
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:29 pm

From Twitter: FAA says the small twin-engine Beech aircraft lost engine power on take-off and hit the building.

Damn.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
FlexJetOKC
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:33 pm

1532Z Update from FAA- No significant injuries of fatalities reported as of now. If this is true, that would be absolutely unbelievable!
Above the planet on a wing and a prayer, my grubby halo, a vapour trail in the empty air...
 
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Moose135
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:35 pm

KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
Gib
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:37 pm

Fox News just reported it was a Hawker. ???
 
Gib
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting gib (Reply 9):

Sorry....Being more specific....Fox says.. "A Hawker - Series 800 Jet"
 
 
bblank
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:02 pm

According to ATC recordings (LiveATC ICT Tower, 14:30-15:00UTZ), at 18:15 into the recording you hear the emergency declaration by N52SZ.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N52SZ
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:02 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
 
G500
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:09 pm

" Fox News just reported it was a Hawker. ??? "

It makes me extremely angry when news agencies don't check or wait for correct information. They HAVE to be the first to break the story. It makes my blood boil
 
B8887
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:09 pm

Clear visibility and good weather...

B8887
 
Beefmoney
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 15):
" Fox News just reported it was a Hawker. ??? "

It makes me extremely angry when news agencies don't check or wait for correct information. They HAVE to be the first to break the story. It makes my blood boil

Well, I think a factor in this misidentification is that Beechcraft has been known as "Hawker Beechcraft" in the recent past due to their aquisition of Hawker a number of years ago. So, people may be identifying King Air's as being manufactured by Hawker without really understanding what that means in the aviation world.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:20 pm

Latest reports on local TV are that it was a King Air 200, NOT belonging to Eagle Med, 2 fatalities (presumably crew), 5 missing, 4 injuries. I have friends that work in the FlightSafety building, hoping they're OK.

If the reports of loss of engine power on t/o are correct, that would be an exceedingly rare failure of the PT6.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:22 pm

Casualties as of 1621Z per KWCH

2 Fatalities
1 Critical
3 still being evaluated
1 additional being transported
5 unaccounted for
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:23 pm

Quoting bblank (Reply 12):
According to ATC recordings (LiveATC ICT Tower, 14:30-15:00UTZ), at 18:15 into the recording you hear the emergency declaration by N52SZ.

There's a photo of that aircraft in the a.net database:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © BillShullPhotography

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
max550
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:26 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):

There's a photo of that aircraft in the a.net database:

I'm assuming Sheetz aviation is part of the Sheetz gas station chain based in Altoona, PA (AOO).
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:27 pm

Per Twitter, plane hit the Citation FlightSafety building.

http://twitter.com/plane_spot/status/527858197093421057
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
qwerty
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:27 pm

Latest registrations seems to indicate owned by Beechcraft.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:38 pm

As of 03OCT2014, the a/c is no longer registered to Sheetz, and is now registered to Beechcraft.
 
tp1040
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:45 pm

Single pilot, lost power on take off.

Hit the flight safety building.

At least 2 died.
5 hurt
5 unaccounted for
100+ inside at the time
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:48 pm

Latest from Via Christi Hospital via KWCH at 1645Z

1 Critical
3 Fair
1 still being evaluated.
 
bond007
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 17):
Well, I think a factor in this misidentification is that Beechcraft has been known as "Hawker Beechcraft" in the recent past due to their aquisition of Hawker a number of years ago. So, people may be identifying King Air's as being manufactured by Hawker without really understanding what that means in the aviation world.

AFAIK, the FlightSafety spokesman , did specifically call it a "Hawker Beechcraft King Air" aircraft.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Beefmoney
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 27):
AFAIK, the FlightSafety spokesman , did specifically call it a "Hawker Beechcraft King Air" aircraft.

And there would be nothing wrong with that, since that's technically accurate. It would be bad, however, for anyone to shorten it to just "Hawker", however, because that would basically lump it in with the other "real Hawkers" like the 800xp that we think of when someone says "A Hawker just crashed".
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 17):
Clear visibility and good weather...

B8887

Yep, it's actually a gorgeous day for flying in Wichita. A little breezy, though, which isn't making ARFF's job any easier.

KICT 301553Z 36017G22KT 10SM CLR 18/02 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP202 T01780022
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:15 pm

According to FlightAware, the aircraft had filed a plan for KMEZ. Given the recent re-reg to Beechcraft, I expect it was headed down there for refit for a new buyer.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:17 pm

New briefing from Fire Marshal Brad Crisp at 1710Z

4 Fatalities
4 Injured
 
b747400erf
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 30):
I expect it was headed down there for refit for a new buyer.

Then why so many people on board if it was a positioning flight?

Losing 1 out of 2 engines on takeoff shouldn't lead to a crash so often, but it almost always seems to. RIP to those who lost their life.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:29 pm

some of the casualties were on the ground. Only one on board the a/c, and he hasn't been confirmed dead yet. Still 4 missing, building is structurally unstable, so they can't go in.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:32 pm

Losing an engine on a King Air on t/o is about the worst time for that to happen. This happened just a few seconds after rotation. Until you've feathered the props, you've got your thrust suddenly turned into drag, meanwhile, the thrust on the other side is still going full bore. You have fractions of a second to react, and on rotation, you have pretty much NO margin.

[Edited 2014-10-30 10:52:07]
 
citationjet
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 32):
Then why so many people on board if it was a positioning flight?

Not all of the fatalities were in the plane. It is reported that the building usually has about 100 people in it. I work about 1 mile from the building and could see and smell the smoke. The FAA ACO building is next to the Flight Safety building, but was not damaged.
I just listened to the ICT Tower transmission. The pilot stated "Tower, declaring an emergency, we just lost an engine." The tower replied "Roger, 2SZ." Nothing more from the plane.

[Edited 2014-10-30 11:12:48]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:28 pm

It looks like the portion of the FlightSafety building that was impacted was the simulator bay. Would hate to be inside the simulator when 3500lbs of flaming Jet A was raining down around me.
 
bond007
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting Beefmoney (Reply 28):
It would be bad, however, for anyone to shorten it to just "Hawker", however, because that would basically lump it in with the other "real Hawkers" like the 800xp that we think of when someone says "A Hawker just crashed".

Maybe 'bad' but I guess just as 'technically accurate'. After all, historically, the "Hawker" of "Hawker Beechcraft" originated from the Hawker Aircraft Company ....the Hawker Siddeley 125 and Hawker 800 etc. were late additions in between the two  


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
mcdu
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting bond007 (Reply 38):
Maybe 'bad' but I guess just as 'technically accurate'. After all, historically, the "Hawker" of "Hawker Beechcraft" originated from the Hawker Aircraft Company ....the Hawker Siddeley 125 and Hawker 800 etc. were late additions in between the two  

Seriously, this is a horrific disaster affecting a large swath of people in aviation with a likely increase in numbers of lives lost. Yet, instead of a moment of reflection for those killed, the thread is into semantics of the name of the corporation. This is a sad day for Beech and Flight Safety. A terrible tradgedy for those unsuspecting people in the building training for such an event as the one that killed them.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:22 pm

The aircraft was traded in a couple of weeks before and this was a ferry flight for paint in Arkansas. Presumably came out of maintenance.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 34):
Losing an engine on a King Air on t/o is about the worst time for that to happen. This happened just a few seconds after rotation. Until you've feathered the props, you've got your thrust suddenly turned into drag, meanwhile, the thrust on the other side is still going full bore. You have fractions of a second to react, and on rotation, you have pretty much NO margin.

Someone said the pilot had time to declare an emergency over the radio. I still don't think engine out scenarios are properly taught to pilots.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:10 pm

I'm not sure how the pilot had time to communicate while aviating, but he's been recently identified as a retired FAA Tower Controller, so he may have had an unusual ability to multitask under pressure.
 
skyhawkmatthew
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:15 pm

Engine failure airborne below Vmca?  
Qantas - The Spirit of Australia.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:33 pm

Latest update at 2000Z is that all persons have been accounted for.

4 Fatalities including the pilot, identified as Mark Goldstein, 53, retired FAA Tower Controller
5 Injuries, 1 currently in serious condition, 1 in fair condition, remaining 3 treated and released.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting CyberEntomology (Reply 42):
Someone said the pilot had time to declare an emergency over the radio. I still don't think engine out scenarios are properly taught to pilots.

Ironically, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the casualties on the ground were in simulators practicing those very scenarios.
 
Flaps
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:37 pm

IMHO....loss of an engine at or or just after rotation in a King Air is a serious handful. Losing an engine in any twin is a serious and genuine emergency, at rotation even more so, in a very complex aircraft even more so and single pilot.....well......While such a scenario is certainly doable there is very little room for error. I understand that it was quite windy as well so yet another variable stacked against this pilot.

I would be very slow to criticize.
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:07 pm

It wasn't especially windy, about 15kt, more or less aligned with the runways.

My understanding of the King Air (disclaimer: never flown one, but know a few around Wichita who have done it a lot) is that losing an engine on one is no big deal, ***EXCEPT*** when it happens on rotation or climbout, at which point, it's a Serious Problem. Fortunately, the PT6 is incredibly reliable. I'll be very interested to see what they find out about this one.
 
awthompson
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 32):
Losing 1 out of 2 engines on takeoff shouldn't lead to a crash so often, but it almost always seems to. RIP to those who lost their life.
Quoting Flaps (Reply 47):

IMHO....loss of an engine at or or just after rotation in a King Air is a serious handful. Losing an engine in any twin is a serious and genuine emergency, at rotation even more so, in a very complex aircraft even more so and single pilot.....well......While such a scenario is certainly doable there is very little room for error. I understand that it was quite windy as well so yet another variable stacked against this pilot.

Yes, but too often pilots in such situations are transfixed by turning back to make the runway and stall into the ground instead of putting their plane down on flat ground somewhere within a few degrees of straight ahead. This crash site is not in line with any of the runways so a turn back was likely being attempted. Although somewhat limited, there is some waste ground, albeit a bit rough on the climb out from all of those runways, certainly a better bet than going into a building.

If Sullenberger had tried to make a runway, that flight may may not have ended well. Of course this type of airmanship requires fast thinking, discipline, skill/experience and also a little bit of luck.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 32):
Losing 1 out of 2 engines on takeoff shouldn't lead to a crash so often,

It should not indeed, but maybe they didn't had enough power to clear the building.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Plane Crash At Wichita MidContinental Airport

Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:52 pm

Here's how the flight path must have looked like:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1OnOZVIgAIJzBT.png:large
http://twitter.com/jamesaydelott/status/527949449113645056
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.

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