BA174
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:40 pm

The aircraft in question (G-BNLE the oldest since 2010) had had its life extended several times and was originally supposed to leave the fleet in 2011, then Feb 2014 but had the extension to October after the loss of BNLL.

Seems that G-BNLF is getting a substantial life extension of around a further 5 years after it was supposed to leave the fleet in September.
 
boefan
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:51 am

B747 G-BNLU c/n 25406 is flying for the last time ever to VCV

http://www.flightradar24.com/BAW9156/4b97eeb
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting boefan (Reply 51):
B747 G-BNLU c/n 25406 is flying for the last time ever to VCV

Next stop: Coke Can City.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1ioCiOCMAA8_vR.png:large
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
warden145
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 52):
Next stop: Coke Can City.

        
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
KELPkid
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 52):
Next stop: Coke Can City.

...or more accurately, highway light pole city    Aircraft grade aluminum has metals which are toxic to people in the alloy  If it is not re-smelted into more aircraft grade aluminum, it usually becomes cast aluminum for light poles.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Coke is toxic to people, so what's the difference?  
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:36 pm

Looks like it is on its final approach to VCV now. The end of another 747-400.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
G-CIVP
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:50 pm

Reading the BA Source and the fate of G-BNLE, having a new first class cabin fitted means very little. It can be ripped out just as quick as it was put in!
 
G-CIVP
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:55 pm

And looking at flightradar, either the flightcrew of BNLU are having a little fun for the final time or sizing up Victorville for the final approach.
 
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cv990Coronado
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:17 am

Does anyone think that the recent drop in the Oil price could cause a re think on the retirement plans for BA or others?
Hopefully it will - without doubt my favourite aircraft.

Perhaps slightly off topic but I have flown on many BA 747's. Sadly I often didn't get the reg only the name. Does anyone know of a list of registrations and names? Most are "City of XXXXX" from what I remember.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
 
BA174
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:03 pm

G-BNLG will shortly follow LU and LE.
 
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Revelation
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:09 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 57):
Reading the BA Source and the fate of G-BNLE, having a new first class cabin fitted means very little. It can be ripped out just as quick as it was put in!

Yes, but as #49 says, it's going to be put into another a/c, presumably one that has just gotten through heavy maintenance or is a few years away from heavy maintenance.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
warden145
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:09 pm

Quoting BA174 (Reply 60):
G-BNLG will shortly follow LU and LE.

My first 747 experience...I knew the day was coming, but still sad to see LG leaving the fleet...         
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
SKAirbus
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:14 pm

I think BA are waiting to see what happens with runway capacity in SE England - the report should be published next year ("conveniently" after the General Election in the UK).

Due to how politicised this issue has become and with the number of especially Conservative voters seemingly calling the shots in the areas surrounding the airports, it would not surprise me at all if after the report (which I imagine will recommend expansion at LHR), runway expansion will be rejected anyway.

If this happens then BA will have no choice but to order more A380s in order to increase capacity. If the go ahead is given for another runways at LHR then maybe we will see more A350s and Dreamliners ordered. By adding the 777X, I think the fleet will be far too diversified, which can lead to increased overheads. A streamlined BA fleet could look like this:

- A320NEO
- A321NEO
- B787-9
- B787-10
- A350-1000
- A380-800

*Note - I don't think the 787-8 will stay in the fleet for too long (beyond 2020) unless they are reconfigured for short-haul routes in Europe to replace the 767. There are only 8 of them. I also think BA will phase out the A319 in favour of the A320NEO and A321NEO.
Base: BRU
 
vv701
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting cv990Coronado (Reply 59):
Perhaps slightly off topic but I have flown on many BA 747's. Sadly I often didn't get the reg only the name. Does anyone know of a list of registrations and names? Most are "City of XXXXX" from what I remember.

I have such a list. Message me the registrations and dates or approximate dates and I should be able to help.

Why the date? Well some BA Classic 747s had as many as three names. For example G-AWNA was named 'Sir Richard Grenville' in 1979, renamed 'City of Peterborough' in 1984 and renamed again, this time as 'Colliford Lake', in 1989.

'The 'City of Xxxxx' names were first used with the launch of the BA Landor livery in late 1984. Some were effectively reassigned from Classic 747s to new 744s. The first such reassignment was 'City of London'. It was removed from 741 G-AWNG in March 1989 when it was renamed 'Rutland Water'. The 'City of London' name was reassigned to 744 G-BNLA in June 1989.

All of the 'City of Xxxx' names of British cities disappeared when the aircraft were repainted in BA's World Images colours. That started in June 1997. The aircraft rolled out in these colours were renamed after the tail image that they carried. The first of these was 744 G-BNLO. It had previously been named 'City of Dundee'. Its new name was 'Emmly Masanabo', the designer of its tail livery.

Finally a few 744s carried even more names. Some briefly carried 'City of Xxxxx' names of non-British cities. These marked the introduction of new services. An example is 744 G-BNLX. It was named 'City of New York' in March 2000. This was when it launched the first service, LHR-JFK, BA177, that formally offered passengers the new BA J Class lie-flat seat. Then, around 12 months later, it was renamed 'United Kingdom'. Earlier it had carried first the 'City of Worcester' and later the 'Waves of the City' names!
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:57 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 63):
I think BA are waiting to see what happens with runway capacity in SE England - the report should be published next year ("conveniently" after the General Election in the UK).

I think the runway capacity question is a little bit of a red herring regarding BA's fleet plans over the next few years. Even if approval is given next year, a new runway would be the best part of a decade away
 
SKAirbus
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:17 pm

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 65):
I think the runway capacity question is a little bit of a red herring regarding BA's fleet plans over the next few years. Even if approval is given next year, a new runway would be the best part of a decade away

True... but any aircraft ordered in the next few years should coincide with any new runway. I still believe it will not happen... The government are too scared of the repercussions politically.
Base: BRU
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:27 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 54):
Aircraft grade aluminum has metals which are toxic to people in the alloy 

Which is why aircraft become *beer* can.     

Lightsaber
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KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 67):
Which is why aircraft become *beer* can.

I always knew there was a reason that the only beers I like come in bottles   
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
bluesky73
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:48 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 68):
I always knew there was a reason that the only beers I like come in bottles

That's cool, but beer bottles are recycled from cockpit and cabins windows 
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3639
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:34 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 44):
Day long presentations of IAG, BA, IB and VY performance and plans to financial analysts.

If you go to this web site:

http://www.iagshares.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-presentations

click on 'IAG Presentations' and then click on 'Capital Markets Day' you will see images of all the slides of the November 2013 presentation.

And todays presentation for 2014 is there now, at the top of the list.

Quick scan and the bad news that the shorthaul B767 will be replaced by A320 aircraft.  
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 70):
Quick scan and the bad news that the shorthaul B767 will be replaced by A320 aircraft.

That is a great link.
767 long haul replaced by 2016 with 787s
767 short haul replaced by 2018. Ok, with A320s, but is that really that much of a surprise?
Additional A350 orders firmed. Deliveries start in 2018


Wow does BA have options on Long haul growth. Bummer the downside is covered by accelerating 747 retirements...  

Lightsaber
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:50 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 71):
Wow does BA have options on Long haul growth.

Yes they have another 18 A350 and 18 787 options. And I'm not counting the options for IB.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1198
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:29 am

Interesting line in the Avios section of the report:

'High growth potential from future IAG airline acquisitions and non-IAG airline partners'


So look out for more airline purchases?
 
jumpjets
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:09 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 71):
Wow does BA have options on Long haul growth

Yers - I would like to see more of them converted to orders so we can see the ex BMI slots [potentially including some more coming back from Virgins Little red] used for more new long haul destinations.

It seems to me that at the moment any new routes could only come at the expense of reducing existing services - until the 789s start to arrive late next year. I do sort of wonder why the hurry to get rid of some 744s, especially the ones that already have 'new first' when they could be used protem to allow say 773s to start new routes and the 744s substituting for them for an extra year or so.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:04 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 71):
Additional A350 orders firmed.

I read this as 18 x 3510 for BA plus 8 x 359 for IB already announced. There are still 42 A350 options after these firm orders, according to the slide (slide no. 16).
 
by738
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:22 pm

Often the domestic 767s are full to GLA and EDI- will be a big capacity cut to switch to A320's. Wonder if more A321 size additions are on the cards...
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 74):
I do sort of wonder why the hurry to get rid of some 744s

Some of the retirements have, if anything, been slightly delayed. In part this has been because of delays in deliveries of 787s and A380s.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:01 am

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 69):
That's cool, but beer bottles are recycled from cockpit and cabins windows

Wow, didn't realize that they are using polycarbonate/Plexiglas bottles these days   
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:24 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 75):
There are still 42 A350 options after these firm orders, according to the slide (slide no. 16).

Yes, further options are 18x A350-1000 for BA and 24x A350-900 for IB.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
na
Posts: 9728
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:58 am

Quoting RTFM (Reply 77):
Some of the retirements have, if anything, been slightly delayed. In part this has been because of delays in deliveries of 787s and A380s.

Especially the 767 retirements were delayed for years due to the massive problems with the 787.
 
AirFiero
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:53 pm

Does anyone know the life expectancy in hours of a 400 airframe, either by design or regulation?
 
na
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 81):
Does anyone know the life expectancy in hours of a 400 airframe, either by design or regulation?

Early on it was 100.000+, then 120.000, now its 165.000 hours because the frame is stronger than initially thought.
Effectively the record frames right now are some active KLM 744s with around 125.000. They could reach about 140.000 before the next D-check (which will mean their end). LH retires their 744s once they reach 120.000.
The recordholders at BA must be close to 115.000 now.
 
AirFiero
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:24 pm

What does a D-check involve, and do you know the approximate cost?
 
by738
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:29 pm

 
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KarelXWB
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:29 pm

Quoting AirFiero (Reply 83):
What does a D-check involve

You may find this video very interesting to watch: http://youtu.be/x_yHtfGH0nI
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
rtfm
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:35 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting na (Reply 80):
Especially the 767 retirements were delayed for years due to the massive problems with the 787.

Very true, but even this year the schedule of 744 and 767 retirements has altered and there have been further delays in some hulls heading off to the desert.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1483
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:31 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 84):

Thanks, fascinating stuff.

As an airplane owner, I know about expensive inspections. One annual on my Cessna T210 cost $11,000.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 84):
Cost of a D- check - Around a million dollars

That would be cheap labor. From your link.

Such a check will usually demand around 40,000 of man-hours and can generally take up to 2 months to complete, depending on the aircraft and the number of technicians involved. It also requires considerable space and, as such, must be performed at a suitable maintenance base.



I doubt that labor is coming in at $25/hour with no cost in parts.
2 months of aircraft time is $1 to $2M in lease payments.

40,000 man hours doesn't include vendor labor, replacement parts (e.g., all the fabric and carpets).

The HMV is a significantly higher cost. I don't know the exact sum, but some of the parts replaced start at $5k each and go on up.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 84):
Cost of a D- check - Around a million dollars

Where can 744 operators and leasors book for USD1m?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:21 am

Quoting na (Reply 82):
Quoting AirFiero (Reply 81):
Does anyone know the life expectancy in hours of a 400 airframe, either by design or regulation?

Early on it was 100.000+, then 120.000, now its 165.000 hours because the frame is stronger than initially thought.

165,000 hours or 35,000 cycles, whichever comes first.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2526
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:31 am

Quoting planesmart (Reply 89):
Where can 744 operators and leasors book for USD1m?

I very much doubt anyone could. Of course the bigger operators have facilities in house to carry out the work so how much it "costs" depends on how costs are allocated within the business. BA widebodies have their heavy checks done by BA Maintenance at CWL. The narrowbody Airbus fleet is dealt with by BA Maintenance at GLA. The 737s had their last major checks outsourced (and will be all gone before they need another), and probably the Embraers will too when these fall due.

There's also Iberia's facilities available and MAD have done intermediate checks on BA A319s, while all the paintshops seem to be shared between the IAG companies these days.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Retire Another 747 Today, 30/10/14

Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 89):
Where can 744 operators and leasors book for USD1m?

Possibly at SHAECO (Singapore Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Company) at Changi Airport.

BA 744 G-BYGA was under maintenance at SHAECO from 27 May to 7 July 2012. This extended period suggests it may have been a C Check and quite possibly a D Check.

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