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boefan
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Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:39 pm

Thomas Cook passenger plane returns to Gatwick after part of aircraft falls to ground. Flight TCX1638

seems like the aircraft's emergency slide plummeted 5,200ft to the ground next to the Kent and Sussex border.

story here : http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/th...art-of-wing-falls-off-9831787.html

http://twitter.com/NikPhillips666/status/528144450241839104/photo/1

How could this happen?

Thanks
 
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kanban
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:56 pm

slides deploy due to gremlins periodically.. sounds that is what happened.. so replace from stock, put on a new cover fairing, and back in business.
 
by738
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting boefan (Thread starter):
plummeted 5,200ft to the ground

is that the usual journalistic drama ?
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting boefan (Thread starter):
How could this happen?

The slide door locks have been problematic. I think there are a couple of AD's that have tried to prevent this from happening. The door is on the fuselage right above the flaps. Once the little door opens, it and the slide are coming off the airplane.
 
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Clipper101
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:05 am

It is reported by Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...-thomas-cook-jet-over-belgium.html

It says the slide of overawing exit was fallen from the aircraft over Belgium.

I recall in my old days I have worked on inspections & modifications of overwing slides that were subject to an AD to prevent them from possible loss inflight, but that was for A320 type. Again, that AD is old & affected the earliest batch of A320's.

[Edited 2014-10-31 18:55:05]
 
AR385
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:56 am

So. Without sounding sensationalist, what are the dangers of the slide striking/getting stuck/breaking off one of the tail surfaces? Is that a real concern?
 
AAMDanny
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:50 am

I have know of this to happen before on aircraft with escape ramp/slides inbuilt into the wing, I can't remember which airline it was but there was a B767 which had a similar incident before.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:54 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
So. Without sounding sensationalist, what are the dangers of the slide striking/getting stuck/breaking off one of the tail surfaces? Is that a real concern?

The door could hit the horizontal tail but it would be similar to a large bird strike. Not catastrophic. The slide itself would not do much damage. It is just a large rubber life raft with no air in it

The big problem with an incident like this is you had a failure of a major safety system, in fight no less. Regulators like the FAA do not like to see diversions for safety equipment malfunctions. Next now you have a plane that has diverted and is grounded until you get another slide pack to it and another door. If someone at your hub opens an overwing exit hatch and triggers the same slide it could be a long delay just to get another slide pack. Add to it the diversion, and the malfunction part it could be a day or two on the ground.
 
Fixinthe757
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 7):
The door could hit the horizontal tail but it would be similar to a large bird strike. Not catastrophic. The slide itself would not do much damage. It is just a large rubber life raft with no air in it

You seem to be forgetting the rather sizeable and heavy high pressure nitrogen bottle attached to the slide for deployment purposes. Yes the tank is part of the slide and stays on it, even after deployment. Therefore it would do a good bit of damage to the horizontal stab if it were to hit it.
 
migair54
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 8):
You seem to be forgetting the rather sizeable and heavy high pressure nitrogen bottle attached to the slide for deployment purposes. Yes the tank is part of the slide and stays on it, even after deployment. Therefore it would do a good bit of damage to the horizontal stab if it were to hit it.

It can make a big damage in the tail, but I also think it won´t be catastrophic, however it can easily kill anyone on ground, so it´s serious issue.

I´d like to know what kind of warning to they have in the cockpit, maybe a slide deployment??, there must be a way to phisically check if the slide is ok from inside, isn´t it??
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 8):
You seem to be forgetting the rather sizeable and heavy high pressure nitrogen bottle attached to the slide for deployment purposes. Yes the tank is part of the slide and stays on it, even after deployment. Therefore it would do a good bit of damage to the horizontal stab if it were to hit it.

I consider that unlikely. The airflow aft of the wing is generally downward, as is gravity, so it's unlikely that the slide would hit the horizontal stab unless it also started to inflate before it departed the airframe. But even if it did, it would make a large dent, but would not be catastrophic. The horizontal stab is pretty strong.

The bigger concern is:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 9):
it can easily kill anyone on ground, so it´s serious issue.

Parts should not be falling off airplanes. Ever. It's not a big deal if they land in the middle of a field, but if, in a fit of almighty bad luck, it lands right on top of an LNG truck and breaches the tank...
 
Natflyer
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:08 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
I consider that unlikely. The airflow aft of the wing is generally downward, as is gravity, so it's unlikely that the slide would hit the horizontal stab unless it also started to inflate before it departed the airframe. But even if it did, it would make a large dent, but would not be catastrophic. The horizontal stab is pretty strong.

Agree. This happened on a 752 in our fleet where the left wing slide departed and some part of it hit the L horizontal stab, making a few shallow dents in the leading edge. Some dents on the left fuselage side also where it banged against it. Quickly repaired.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Parts should not be falling off airplanes. Ever. It's not a big deal if they land in the middle of a field, but if, in a fit of almighty bad luck, it lands right on top of an LNG truck and breaches the tank...

Agreed. Poor design.
 
Daysleeper
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:15 pm

Forgive my ignorance but I have never had any experience with fuselage mounted slides. So how exactly are they deployed?

To expand on that; when the handle is pulled inside the cabin does it release a locking mechanism releasing the panel which in turn allows the slide to be released, then by a rip cord or similar trigger the inflation?

Or, does the handle simply deploy the slide and the inflation of the slide then forces and breaks lose the panel?

What I'm trying to understand, is it a latch which is failing or some sort of sacrificial lock that is designed to break when the slide is deployed?

Thank you in advance to anyone able to answer.  
 
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Clipper101
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 8):
You seem to be forgetting the rather sizeable and heavy high pressure nitrogen bottle attached to the slide for deployment purposes

I am not specifically accustomed to B757 overwing slides (I am more familiar to A320 type), & I am referring here to B757-300 in 12 doors configuration (B757-200 in 10 doors configuration) with two overwing emergency Type III exits on each side, to help me understand your quoted thoughts can you tell me which of the following two statements is true for the inflation reservoir for overwing slide pertaining to B757 two overwing emergency Type III exits:

1) Inflation reservoir for each slide is installed separately inside the fuselage structure along with its firing mechanism.

or

2) Inflation reservoir packed along with slide same way as with normal Type I entry doors slides/rafts.


Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
The airflow aft of the wing is generally downward

I believe you are hinting aerodynamic downwash effect

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Parts should not be falling off airplanes

Agree, regulatory agencies always make sure of that through airworthiness directives  Big grin

[Edited 2014-11-01 13:37:29 by clipper101]
 
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kanban
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting Natflyer (Reply 11):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Parts should not be falling off airplanes. Ever. It's not a big deal if they land in the middle of a field, but if, in a fit of almighty bad luck, it lands right on top of an LNG truck and breaches the tank...

Agreed. Poor design.

parts have been departing aircraft for years and it is rarely due to bad design. more frequently it is lack of maintenance, or incomplete closure after maintenance. All it takes is one loose quick fastener and some aerodynamic buffeting and closure panels start to vibrate affecting other fasteners. While there is no fool proof design short of riveting the panel closed, the frequency of over wing slides deploying is extremely low with no loss of life in the air or on the ground.

The slide would have caused less damage than the routine dropping of flaps, cowls, wheels/tires, etc.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 8):
You seem to be forgetting the rather sizeable and heavy high pressure nitrogen bottle attached to the slide for deployment purposes. Yes the tank is part of the slide and stays on it, even after deployment. Therefore it would do a good bit of damage to the horizontal stab if it were to hit it.

The 757 off-wing slide does not have a nitrogen bottle as part of the assembly. The nitrogen bottle is mounted inside the fuselage just aft of the station 1180 bulkhead on the -200 aircraft. (I dont recall the sta number for the -300). The bottle feeds compressed gas to the off wing slide via a flex hose. The part of the slide most likely to do damage to the empennage would be the pack board or the hinged slide carrier on which the slide mounts.
 
Fixinthe757
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:11 am

Quoting B757forever (Reply 15):
The 757 off-wing slide does not have a nitrogen bottle as part of the assembly. The nitrogen bottle is mounted inside the fuselage just aft of the station 1180 bulkhead on the -200 aircraft.

This is untrue. We had one deploy on a plane earlier in the year. The bottle is clearly attached to the underside of the slide. I personally saw it as did one of my colleagues, with him staring directly at it.
As for catastrophic damage of course not, never said it would. But it would certainly do a good bit of leading edge damage IF by some chance it did happen to hit it.

Quoting Clipper101 (Reply 13):
2) Inflation reservoir packed along with slide same way as with normal Type I entry doors slides/rafts.

This is the correct assumption. A cable is attached to the bottom of the overwing exit and pulls the pin on the bottle, that is attached to the slide, and begins the process. Obviously the door covering the slide and swing out platform must be opened first, which is all done almost simultaneously.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 9):
I´d like to know what kind of warning to they have in the cockpit, maybe a slide deployment??, there must be a way to phisically check if the slide is ok from inside, isn´t it??

The only warning is a light on the P-5 panel above the capt's head, as well as a simultaneous message on upper EICAS that says "emergency door". You check the bottle pressure only by opening the panel where you would deactivate it and reading the pressure gauge on the bottle.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 16):
This is untrue. We had one deploy on a plane earlier in the year. The bottle is clearly attached to the underside of the slide. I personally saw it as did one of my colleagues, with him staring directly at it.
As for catastrophic damage of course not, never said it would. But it would certainly do a good bit of leading edge damage IF by some chance it did happen to hit it.

On the DL and NW aircraft the bottle is located in the belly of the aircraft. They are about the size of a scuba tank so they have to be remote from the slide. Trust me and B757forever on this. Both of us have been working on B757 for a long time.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:10 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 14):
parts have been departing aircraft for years and it is rarely due to bad design. more frequently it is lack of maintenance, or incomplete closure after maintenance.

Agreed. I just take issue with people who say that this is a "minor issue" because it poses a minimal safety risk to the airplane. The people on the ground also have a right to walk around and go about their lives without parts of aircraft falling on their heads.
 
B757Forever
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Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Reply 16):
This is untrue. We had one deploy on a plane earlier in the year. The bottle is clearly attached to the underside of the slide. I personally saw it as did one of my colleagues, with him staring directly at it.
As for catastrophic damage of course not, never said it would. But it would certainly do a good bit of leading edge damage IF by some chance it did happen to hit it.

Perhaps the aircraft you were looking at was an "8 door" aircraft and not one with an off wing slide? The aircraft equipped with #3 doors have a slide pack installed on the door with an integral air supply.
 
Fixinthe757
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RE: Thomas Cook B753 Returns When Part Falls To Ground

Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:15 pm

Perhaps different airlines have their preferences, as is typical with a number of things in these planes. The one I'm referring to was a former United plane, and I assure you it had the overwing exits and not the #3 doors. I've been working the 757 for a number of years myself and know the difference. Again though, not all are the same even though they may physically look like it.  

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