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jfklganyc
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:53 am

How long before JFK-DEN/SLC/PDX on AA? Holes in the A*A network.

Once a day 738 would work to connect to the international bank. And in the case of SLC/PDX, once a day is enough for the NYC market O and D
 
OB1504
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:45 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 127):
Couldn't agree more - having flown multiple times on these aircraft, I completely concur that all three are as good if not better than just about any comparable aircraft/product being flown in their respective categories by U.S. (and even many non-U.S.) carriers. Nonetheless, AA has for years also been flying lots and lots of 767s across the Atlantic that have an inferior J and vastly inferior Y product to some competitors.

   The new economy class product on AA is incredible, but also very rare for the time being. The majority of transatlantic operations are on 757s and 767s with an extremely subpar hard product.

Quoting questions (Reply 141):
Can AA's A321T's make it across the pond?

I'm not sure, but the extremely premium-heavy configuration on the A321T would make it a poor fit for most, if not all, transatlantic routes.
 
oc2dc
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:12 am

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
AA250 MIA1445 – 0615+FRA 763 D
AA251 FRA1000 – 1455MIA 763 D

Hmmm, that's an unusually long turn time at FRA... Does anybody have an answer as to what on Earth the plane is going to do for 4 hours?

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 13):
Great FRA arrival time. Too bad its a not the rumored 772.

Genuinely saddened by this... hopefully they will do some switching of aircraft once they are closer aligned with US or have more refurbished 77Es available. . .


Quoting panamair (Reply 99):
If you're referring to the AA 763s, I don't think they actually have them yet (or if they do, they are not usable). The website keeps saying they have wifi, but I have never found any connection on the recently- refurbished 767s (e.g., N348AN, N345AN, etc.)

Just flew N345AN recently... devastated to see there was no Wi-Fi. I could have sworn they were installing Wi-Fi on the 763s. It would make life in Y so much more tolerable!

Quoting commavia (Reply 127):
AA's terminal at JFK is excellent - easily one of the nicest gateways in the U.S., in my opinion.

It is quite aesthetically pleasing, but the dining offerings are horrid.

[Edited 2014-11-02 22:22:01]
I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:34 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 151):
How long before JFK-DEN/SLC/PDX on AA? Holes in the A*A network.

Once a day 738 would work to connect to the international bank. And in the case of SLC/PDX, once a day is enough for the NYC market O and D

As you will well remember, I have long expected that - eventually - JFK was going to see some amount of longhaul growth and, coupled with it, the reallocation of some superfluous once-daily ERJ slot pairs to longer-haul domestic growth. On the former, I still expect that - at a minimum - TLV and FRA are plausible and possible. On the latter, I think DEN and PDX are plausible, along with expanded frequency to SEA and SAN, but I don't think AA would go for JFK-SLC, as the market isn't all that large compared to the others and Delta dominates it handily.
 
frostyj
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:43 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 135):

Does it? I think most will prefer a tv than alcohol.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
frostyj
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:44 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 136):

Think i'll be taking the to over a poison thanks.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 156):
Think i'll be taking the to over a poison thanks.

Cool. To each their own.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
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enilria
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:53 pm

The new MIA-CLT will be accomplished by dropping one of the CLT-FRA flights.
OAG Changes 11/7/2015: Big AA/B6/DL/UA/US (by enilria Nov 3 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Let the "CLT has no int'l future" debate resume...
 
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Miami
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 158):

*ding ding ding*   

Can't say I'm surprised. None of us should be surprised.

[Edited 2014-11-03 07:04:10]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
AA767400
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 156):
Think i'll be taking the to over a poison thanks.

Good for you! Moving on...
"The low fares airline."
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 154):
On the former, I still expect that - at a minimum - TLV and FRA are plausible and possible.

So going to FRA there's DFW PHL CLT MIA and now you want JFK ? That's an awful lot of FRA service to a rival hub with no feed .....

How about some AMS instead ? 4x to FRA (and wanting JFK) while AMS is 1x 752.
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 161):
So going to FRA there's DFW PHL CLT MIA and now you want JFK ? That's an awful lot of FRA service to a rival hub with no feed .....

Would still be less than the extensive service AA offers to CDG, which is also a rival alliance's hub. And - as an aside - FRA does not offer "no feed," but rather a limited (compared to LHR) amount of online, codeshare feed and more interline feed. AA absolutely connects traffic over FRA, and always has.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 161):
How about some AMS instead ? 4x to FRA (and wanting JFK) while AMS is 1x 752.

AMS is too small a market with too strong a competitor - and thus, in my estimation, not worth the fight, at least not from JFK. I continue to believe PHL is the better gateway to continue serving AMS - smaller local market than NYC, but ample hub connectivity and zero competition.
 
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enilria
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 159):
*ding ding ding*   

Can't say I'm surprised. None of us should be surprised.

No, but PHL lost a flight as well, although I'd argue that aircraft essentially went to fly JFK transatlantic, just not to FRA.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 162):

Would still be less than the extensive service AA offers to CDG, which is also a rival alliance's hub..

CDG is also a far larger tourism destination than FRA (personally I find Bavaria and Berlin much more interesting to visit, but that's just my own opinion)

Quoting commavia (Reply 162):
AA absolutely connects traffic over FRA, and always has.

PMUS had so much FRA service only because of LH. So much of that feed is now lost.

Another suggestion - MUC. Right now only 1 flight to PHL. Balancing capacity between FRA MUC AMS makes more sense than virtually throwing all eggs in one basket.
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 164):
CDG is also a far larger tourism destination than FRA

The injection of the word "tourism" is a pretty interesting and important caveat. Paris overall is certainly a larger market, but both CDG and FRA are huge tourism and, critically, business destinations, which is why all three of the major U.S. carriers have substantial service - regardless of alliance - to both, along with, of course, the largest market of them all in Europe, London.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 164):
PMUS had so much FRA service only because of LH. So much of that feed is now lost.

"So much" of that connecting feed is now lost, but not, as was originally stated, all of it. AA and USAirways both long have, and continue to, handle connecting feed - codeshares and/or interlines - over FRA.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 163):
No, but PHL lost a flight as well, although I'd argue that aircraft essentially went to fly JFK transatlantic, just not to FRA.

None of the four new trans-Atlantic flights represent additional frequency across the Atlantic.

CLTFRA --> MIAFRA
PHLFRA --> JFKBHX
PHLEDI --> JFKEDI (PHLEDI still in booking systems; JFKEDI not open for booking)
4th ORDLHR --> 2nd LAXLHR

ORDLHR should see a 77W in spring and MIALHR should get a 2nd 77W "in 2015."
a.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 165):

"So much" of that connecting feed is now lost, but not, as was originally stated, all of it. AA and USAirways both long have, and continue to, handle connecting feed - codeshares and/or interlines - over FRA.

Just as significant as code-share connections that UA make at HKG. Interlines are meaningless because nearly every airline does it as long as they're not bitter rivals.

But you haven't really made the argument why service to AMS and MUC is so ridiculously paltry. And it's not a rival hub thing - UA serves both AMS and CDG from 4 hubs each. MUC metro is only barely behind FRA metro in terms of total population (5M) and total GDP (EUR 200B). If measured by per capita GDP it's pretty much equal. It's no where near "low yield".
 
Lentini2001
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:46 pm

This will be very short-lived from BHX I think, I have just done some checking on prices.

BHX-JFK return £2506 in economy with AA

BHX-EWR return £620 in economy with United.

Yes, I was putting in UK pound / sterling as opposed to US dollars.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would pay that when you can travel for so much less with United.

Please tell me the AA website is incorrect and those prices haven't been loaded properly?
 
commavia
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 167):
But you haven't really made the argument why service to AMS and MUC is so ridiculously paltry. And it's not a rival hub thing - UA serves both AMS and CDG from 4 hubs each. MUC metro is only barely behind FRA metro in terms of total population (5M) and total GDP (EUR 200B). If measured by per capita GDP it's pretty much equal. It's no where near "low yield".

It's simple - both AMS and MUC are smaller markets handily dominated by competitors, and not worth fighting for a bigger piece of the way PAR and FRA (let alone LON) are. AMS is not only a smaller market than LON, PAR or FRA - but I'd be willing to be it's overall a lower-yielding one, too. And MUC certainly has healthy business and leisure components also but, again, it's just not as big or important a market comparatively that would warrant a huge push.

Delta has a single daily flight to MUC, just like AA/USAirways does. United has four daily flights to four U.S. hubs from AMS compared to AA's just one, but I think that also reflects unique strengths of United's U.S. hub structure. Specifically, ORD-AMS is only big enough for a single U.S. carrier, and United is indisputably the bigger dog at ORD. WAS (IAD) generates a healthy amount of traffic because it's such a large commercial and political capital - and, again, there's room for one carrier, which is naturally United. EWR is just EWR - massive hub, massive local market, easy win. And IAH has particular commercial connections to AMS - oil/gas - that are unlike any other U.S. hub. In AA's case, I just do not think AMS is worth fighting for from any other hub - NYC is already well-covered between United and Delta/KLM, Chicago isn't large enough, CLT has virtually no local market and DFW is a small market for such a long distance. The only other U.S. hub I could ever see being even semi-plausible for AMS is MIA, but even then, I think AA is just better off focusing on funneling U.S. connections through PHL and LHR, which is perfectly "good enough" up against the juggernaut in the market that is Delta/KLM.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting Lentini2001 (Reply 168):

This will be very short-lived from BHX I think, I have just done some checking on prices.

BHX-JFK return £2506 in economy with AA

BHX-EWR return £620 in economy with United.

AA has only loaded the full fare buckets. This will be fixed shortly. Nothing to be concerned about.
a.
 
aacun
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:27 pm

What is going on with Asunción? Is it going seasonal or cancelled all together?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting Aacun (Reply 171):

What is going on with Asunción? Is it going seasonal or cancelled all together?

Seasonal suspension during the spring shoulder in April/May.
a.
 
Lentini2001
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 170):
AA has only loaded the full fare buckets. This will be fixed shortly. Nothing to be concerned about.

Ah, great, thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:22 pm

Related to AA's Europe schedule changes, MIABCN becomes a 2-class 772 on January 6th.
a.
 
by738
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 166):
JFKEDI not open for booking

Seems to be on AA.com, as is PHL-EDI
 
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HELyes
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:41 pm

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
AA130 JFK1900 – 0710+1BHX 757 D
AA131 BHX1000 – 1255JFK 757 D

AA 130/131 have been the seasonal ORD-HEL service, does it mean AA will cut HEL ?
 
uberflieger
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:59 pm

Quoting HELyes (Reply 176):
AA 130/131 have been the seasonal ORD-HEL service

I have a feeling we're in for a few more surprises.  
 
panamair
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting HELyes (Reply 175):

AA 130/131 have been the seasonal ORD-HEL service, does it mean AA will cut HEL ?

Was going to ask that myself...pretty much all the usual seasonals (e.g., ORD-FCO, JFK-FCO, ORD-DUB, ORD-DUS) have been loaded for summer 2015 already, except for ORD-HEL...hmmm
 
jcwr56
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:54 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 136):
Like I have mentioned before in other threads, AA reduces their own metal to let another OW carriers operate instead.
Quoting panamair (Reply 177):
Was going to ask that myself...pretty much all the usual seasonals (e.g., ORD-FCO, JFK-FCO, ORD-DUB, ORD-DUS) have been loaded for summer 2015 already, except for ORD-HEL...hmmm

That should answer this question.
 
AA767400
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:23 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 173):
Related to AA's Europe schedule changes, MIABCN becomes a 2-class 772 on January 6th.

And on that topic, are we at still just one frame, or a few more?

Quoting HELyes (Reply 175):
AA 130/131 have been the seasonal ORD-HEL service, does it mean AA will cut HEL ?

I truly believe that was a weak performer. It did not command decent yields. Maybe MIA-HEL would have been the better choice, even if seasonal. Maybe a new PHL-HEL might work, with decent feed on both ends.
"The low fares airline."
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:28 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 179):
And on that topic, are we at still just one frame, or a few more?

I think it's still at one frame; three by month's end. Will also be used on DFWLHR and MIAMAD.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 179):
Maybe MIA-HEL would have been the better choice,

AA/AY are relaunching this next month on AY metal.
a.
 
uberflieger
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:38 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 180):
AA/AY are relaunching this next month on AY metal

This is great news for ORD. A new Oneworld tail    Any idea whether it's year round?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 181):

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 180):
AA/AY are relaunching this next month on AY metal

This is great news for ORD. A new Oneworld tail    Any idea whether it's year round?

Do you mean great news for MIA? Seasonal, thrice weekly AY A343.
a.
 
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HELyes
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 179):
Maybe MIA-HEL would have been the better choice, even if seasonal.

Actually Finnair ( AY7/8 A340) return to MIA this winter from Dec 16, AA codeshare flights 8987/8988.
 
uberflieger
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 182):
Do you mean great news for MIA? Seasonal, thrice weekly AY A343

Fabulous news for MIA and if they move that frame to ORD for S15 - fabulous news for Chicago   
 
nomorerjs
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:25 am

AY doing HEL-MIA/ORD seasonal makes sense. With that said, I'll believe it or hen I see it.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:53 am

American using 763 on MIA-FRA is a joke.

Germans are not only very price conscious passengers they also prefer quality. If AA puts a refurnished 77E or even a brand new 787 or A PMUS 330 on this route it might have a chance but not with a 763 (no power outlets, no Wifi, no PTV's and those grumpy FA's ) - no thanks !
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PietPiloot
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:04 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 169):

Your analyses is completely correct. It is not worth getting into competition for AA to compete on a ORD/NYC/DFW market, but since MIA-AMS is completely absent (apart from Arke, which I don't consider competition), and the fact that AA can offer markets to AMS passengers to places it serves out of Miami that are not directly connected to AMS, I still think that it could work out fine. I don't say that it is a big market, but considering the fact that are direct flights out of Miami to places like Dusselfdorf, Zurich and even Helsinki (these markets are smaller than AMS) it is strange that this route doesn't work out.

I might add that with the slots that KLM had to give up to JFK not so long ago, because of the monopoly of DL/KL on this route, you might argue that even a simple B757 AA flight to AMS might be working.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting PietPiloot (Reply 187):
I might add that with the slots that KLM had to give up to JFK not so long ago, because of the monopoly of DL/KL on this route, you might argue that even a simple B757 AA flight to AMS might be working.

I don't think that actually happened yet.

Press release?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting PietPiloot (Reply 187):
but considering the fact that are direct flights out of Miami to places like Dusselfdorf, Zurich and even Helsinki (these markets are smaller than AMS)

True except that MIAZRH is larger than MIAAMS by about 20% and benefits from being a major business travel market, that MIAAMS does not have.
a.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:54 pm

Anyone have any idea why JFK-EDI has been on sale since Sunday with no official announcement from AA? Regardless of what the future is for PHL-EDI it has to be a priority that they get word out there of the new route!  
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:27 pm

BHX and EDI routes make sense to me in JFK given how large a presence BA has in the area, and how close the partnership is.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:50 pm

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 186):
Germans are not only very price conscious passengers they also prefer quality. If AA puts a refurnished 77E or even a brand new 787 or A PMUS 330 on this route it might have a chance but not with a 763 (no power outlets, no Wifi, no PTV's and those grumpy FA's ) - no thanks !

Fair, but South Florida is a HUGE One World market. They will jump off of a cliff for those miles. They could probably fill the plane with just them and be fine.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
PRAirbus
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:00 am

AA 763 competing with LH A380 on MIA-FRA?  
 
SCQ83
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:11 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 192):
Fair, but South Florida is a HUGE One World market. They will jump off of a cliff for those miles. They could probably fill the plane with just them and be fine.

Well said. By reading some comments, I was starting to think that Miami-FLL-Palm Beach was just a holiday resort for German tourists and not a 5.5 million people metro area with very international demographics in the wealthiest nation on earth.
 
by738
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:34 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 67):
Also re PHLEDI, yes it is still bookable for now, but JFKEDI is not bookable despite being loaded into the schedules. PHLEDI passengers will probably be rebooked over next weekend I assume

Correct as ever Mah4546, the PHL option ex EDI has been ditched as expected. Still slight an odd arrangement transfer. Presumably GLA-PHL will stay as-is.
 
by738
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:23 pm

Are the new Europe routes summer only / seasonal or year round. Would have thought summer only in the first instance would be the way to go, especially as existing UA winter services dwindle down to less than daily already in winter.
 
uberflieger
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:20 am

There's a funny retweet by American of Fraport announcing the coming up MIA-FRA service. Oddly enough still no official AA press release.
http://t.co/Uk4KlXBqYD
 
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Miami
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:59 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 197):
There's a funny retweet by American of Fraport announcing the coming up MIA-FRA service.

How is it funny??
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:02 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 197):
Oddly enough still no official AA press release.

American issued the press release last week. It's on the website.
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