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Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:50 am
by commavia
Along with the already-announced (last week) second daily LAX-LHR flight, AA will also begin daily MIA-FRA with a 767, along with JFK-BHX and JFK-EDI with 757s next May.

LAX-LHR x2 (starting 28 March)
> Return of second flight which hasn't operated in several years
> Interestingly, using old flight numbers (AA108/109) that used to be used by one of the BOS-LHR pairs

AA108 LAX1755 – 1225+1LHR 77W D *NEW
AA136 LAX1935 – 1415+1LHR 77W D
AA109 LHR1215 – 1540LAX 77W D *NEW
AA135 LHR1400 – 1730LAX 77W D

MIA-FRA (starting 14 May)
> Return of route which hasn't operated since 1997

AA250 MIA1445 – 0615+FRA 763 D
AA251 FRA1000 – 1455MIA 763 D

JFK-BHX (starting 7 May)
> Return of AA to BHX for first time since 2002 (previously from ORD)

AA130 JFK1900 – 0710+1BHX 757 D
AA131 BHX1000 – 1255JFK 757 D

JFK-EDI (starting 8 May)
> Return of AA (though not USAirways) to Scotland for the first time since 2006 (previously to GLA)

AA278 JFK1915 – 0715+1EDI 757 D
AA279 EDI0915 – 1200JFK 757 D

http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/01/aa-s15europe-update1/

Glad to see AA further growing and building on the JV's strength in the UK, further enhancing the growing MIA hub's connectivity to Europe, and - as many predicted - continuing to expand JFK as a gateway.

With respect to FRA, I would not be surprised if this new MIA flight ultimately proves to be a replacement, rather than a compliment, to the second CLT flight (as I am not sure AA needs three flights each day from the southeastern U.S. to Germany) and I also wonder if we'll ultimately see the second PHL-FRA flight similarly get moved up to JFK.

[Edited 2014-11-01 04:05:35]

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:02 am
by flyby519
Wow, great news for AA JFK. I figured BHX/EDi would be prime candidates for PHL service.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:05 am
by frostyj
Jfk to Edi! really ok..

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:07 am
by S75752
Interesting to see them going in to EDI while US is already there.

While the UA TATL 757 is actually pretty nice, I can't say that I'd want to take the AA or US 757's.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:09 am
by frostyj
Quoting S75752 (Reply 3):

I have to agree. Looked at pics online and they seem to only have a seat.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:19 am
by kl911
I remember reading here a few weeks/momths ago that AA applied for slots at AMS. What's the latest on that?

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:36 am
by hibtastic
Great news. Plenty 757s at EDI next summer.

EDI already has PHL with US.

[Edited 2014-11-01 04:37:46]

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:49 am
by commavia
Quoting kl911 (Reply 5):
I remember reading here a few weeks/momths ago that AA applied for slots at AMS. What's the latest on that?

Personally, I would be surprised to see any meaningful growth for AA at AMS - at least in the near- to mid-term. While AMS is one of the largest hubs in Europe, that hub is dominated by the local carrier/JV to a greater extent than many of the other large hubs (LHR, CDG, etc.). Plus, AMS is nowhere near as large a market to start with as LON, PAR, FRA, etc. I think AMS - and BRU - make sense to serve as markets because they are important commercial, political and tourism destinations, but I see both being a perfect fit for daily 757s to PHL and not much else.

Quoting hibtastic (Reply 6):
EDI already has PHL with US.

  

The combination of JFK and PHL seems to play to the strengths of each market - PHL provides ample connectivity throughout the U.S., while JFK offers connectivity to some of the largest markets, plus of course also pulls on the large local demand (as, of course, many Brits love New York).

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:11 pm
by behramjee
Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
MIA-FRA (starting 14 May)
> Return of route which hasn't operated since 1997

AA250 MIA1445 – 0615+FRA 763 D
AA251 FRA1000 – 1455MIA 763 D

Is this a year round flight or seasonal? These slots obtained by AA at FRA are excellent. Are these their old slots from ORD-FRA or new?

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:20 pm
by by738
Quoting S75752 (Reply 3):
I can't say that I'd want to take the AA or US 757's

Nor me. Even at 7 hours+ its a long stretch.
Potentially 5 flights a day from EDI to US including 3 to NYC from just 2 previously - is that sensible yield management ? (plus now NCL and 2 flights from GLA). I wonder how UA will react....

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:24 pm
by usairways85
Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
The combination of JFK and PHL seems to play to the strengths of each market - PHL provides ample connectivity throughout the U.S., while JFK offers connectivity to some of the largest markets, plus of course also pulls on the large local demand (as, of course, many Brits love New York).

Let's wait and see if PHL-EDI stays.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:28 pm
by frostyj
No its gone, it says on one of the other forums.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:29 pm
by commavia
Quoting behramjee (Reply 8):
Is this a year round flight or seasonal?

Good question. My guess is year-round.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 8):
These slots obtained by AA at FRA are excellent. Are these their old slots from ORD-FRA or new?

AA hasn't flown ORD-FRA in over four years, so I doubt these slots are from that (sadly) long-gone route. I agree the FRA departure time is optimal, although the MIA departure is quite early - I believe it will be, by at least a couple of hours, AA's earliest MIA-Europe departure.

Quoting by738 (Reply 9):
Potentially 5 flights a day from EDI to US including 3 to NYC from just 2 previously - is that sensible yield management ?

Well, at a minimum, AA will be able to draw upon the BA JV on the U.K. POS, so that should at least help.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 10):
Let's wait and see if PHL-EDI stays.

Fair point.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:37 pm
by uberflieger
Quoting behramjee (Reply 8):
These slots obtained by AA at FRA are excellent

  
Great FRA arrival time. Too bad its a not the rumored 772.

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
AA's earliest MIA-Europe departure

MXP leaves at 14:25

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:43 pm
by hibtastic
Quoting Frostyj (Reply 11):

PHL - EDI definitely gone?

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:56 pm
by frostyj
Obviously. Its Edinburgh not Heathrow.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:01 pm
by jfk777
Great that AA is flying to UK regionals but what took so long? 757 flights from JFK to these two cities should have been part of the UK portfolio long ago.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:11 pm
by MAH4546
This isn't all expansion. JFKEDI replaces PHLEDI. MIAFRA replaces both the second PHLFRA and CLTFRA frequencies (so down one daily to FRA).

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:11 pm
by frostyj
I agree you can fly from ewr to basically every city so why not jfk? Maybe there isn't demand? They need to fix up their planes though.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:21 pm
by usairways85
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 17):
This isn't all expansion. JFKEDI replaces PHLEDI. MIAFRA replaces both the second PHLFRA and CLTFRA frequencies (so down one daily to FRA).

PHL-EDI has not been officially removed from the reservation system like the 2nd PHL/CLT-FRA frequencies, though to your point I would not be surprised if it is.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:28 pm
by Miami
Great, great news! Really glad for AA!

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:35 pm
by commavia
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 13):
MXP leaves at 14:25

Good catch - forgot about that, my apologies.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 17):
This isn't all expansion. JFKEDI replaces PHLEDI. MIAFRA replaces both the second PHLFRA and CLTFRA frequencies (so down one daily to FRA).

Ah - interesting. Makes sense - thanks.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:16 pm
by S75752
Quoting by738 (Reply 9):

Nor me. Even at 7 hours+ its a long stretch.

It's not the fact of it being a 752 in particular. 752's @ 7-8Hrs are fine, if they have the right amenities...
UA and DL TATL 752's have IFE, Power every seat.

AA and US 752's do not have either. Same with the AA and US 763's.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:24 pm
by frostyj
US and AA 757s are just like bog standard domestic aircraft. They must've just pulled them straight off the domestic flying.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:43 pm
by MesaFlyGuy
Quoting Frostyj (Reply 15):
Obviously. Its Edinburgh not Heathrow.

??? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 18):
I agree you can fly from ewr to basically every city so why not jfk? Maybe there isn't demand? They need to fix up their planes though.

Because United has a lot more connection opportunities through EWR that can help feed this flight.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:48 pm
by by738
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 17):
This isn't all expansion. JFKEDI replaces PHLEDI

Are you surmising or is this fact ? PHL still bookable as of today

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:55 pm
by jfklganyc
Very excited to see the growth out of JFK.

I honestly thought JFK would stay status quo or shrink.

This is a good sign that JFK will play a role going forward.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:03 pm
by TC957
I feel MIA - MAN is a route AA should send a 767 on, at least 4 a week. Would be great for the cruise market.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:09 pm
by Miami
Quoting TC957 (Reply 27):
I feel MIA - MAN is a route AA should send a 767 on, at least 4 a week. Would be great for the cruise market.

Indeed, I agree. They should now. Especially with Thomas Cook starting flights from MAN to MIA in May.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:13 pm
by uberflieger
Quoting TC957 (Reply 27):
I feel MIA - MAN is a route AA should send a 767 on

There hasn't been an official press release, I don't think. Maybe they have a few more surprises up their sleeves? All being announced at the same time?   

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:28 pm
by RWA380
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 13):
Great FRA arrival time. Too bad its a not the rumored 772

Give it time, the 763 isn't going to be around forever, plus in the thread you arereferring to, it was suggested a few times the route would start on a 763, so no real surprise. I think the 789 or 772 could be contenders depending on route dynamics in the future, IMO the 763 was a good starting point, also hard to compete with the 380/748i on LH using a 763.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 26):

Very excited to see the growth out of JFK.

I honestly thought JFK would stay status quo or shrink.

This is a good sign that JFK will play a role going forward

I agree, it's nice to see AA has stuck strong to both NYC & LA airports, being a big dog in the two largest catchment areas in the country can't hurt the bottom line at all. Maybe, just maybe AA will become Americas flagship carrier, like PA in the 50s. And yes, I realize other carriers carry the US flag on their planes, y'all know what I'm saying in general.  

Ithink it was pretty clear what AAs plans for NYC are given the blurb for every hub came out, NYC (JFK & LGA) are the largest O/D market in the country, they want to be NYCs airline domestically & internationally. Smart move!

PHL will become the TATL hub for connections say SEA-PHL-BRU or LAX-PHL-MAN, this means AA is taking the top two catchmenr centers in the country & focus on O/D from those two markets, of course there will always be connectivity through azny city that operates non-stops to farreaches of the world like SYD, PVG or HKG for example out of LAX.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:30 pm
by Miami
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 29):
There hasn't been an official press release

He was just saying AA should. Nothing has been official.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 29):
Maybe they have a few more surprises up their sleeves?

Of course they do.  
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 29):
All being announced at the same time?

Not so sure about all at the same time. But maybe just a few at a time.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:41 pm
by MAH4546
Quoting Frostyj (Reply 23):

US and AA 757s are just like bog standard domestic aircraft. They must've just pulled them straight off the domestic flying.


No. Both AA and US have long haul 757s. US equipped with old school recliners and AA equipped with the same exact lie flats as the 3-class 772s.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:53 pm
by LONGisland89
Quoting TC957 (Reply 27):
I feel MIA - MAN is a route AA should send a 767 on

Agreed. Did AA used to fly MIA-MAN or am I mistaken?

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:53 pm
by frostyj
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 32):

This isn't exactly an international product.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shamrockgoldcircle/9138550262/

[Edited 2014-11-01 09:01:37]

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:06 pm
by FCAFLYBOY
It is an international product, just a terrible one! If they want to stand any chance of competing with UA on regional UK-US routes they will need to re-furb those skanky 757's ASAP

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 34):
This isn't exactly an international product.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shamroc...0262/

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:07 pm
by mugler
I don't understand how AA will compete against LH and the A380 on the MIA-FRA route, nonetheless it's great to see them expand at MIA 

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:19 pm
by reifel
Great news for FRA.

That said, I would be wondering how big is the O&D market between MIA and FRA.
We should look at the bigger picture. Of course there is a market just between MIA and FRA, and AA with the product they have now is probably not competitive to LH (although some people do not care about a PTV) and LH will always have the advantage of "locals" preferring to fly the national carrier.

But, there is also probably a significant part of transfer passengers on those flights, and on quite a few routes LH and AA will not directly compete. AA has almost no european (or even longhaul) feed in FRA, while it has quite a feeder network in MIA, and with LH it'S exactly the other way round.
If we look i.e. at a DEL-MIA passenger or a FRA-SXM passenger i.e., there is basically no competition for them, as the DEL-MIA can't just not fly on the AA jet on that route due to a missing feeder...I would be interested to know however how big the percentage of such transfer passengers is. I guess with LH quite significantly (LH flight attendant tend to adress you in English rather than German), while I am not sure how big the market is for AA let's say between Frankfurt an Central America/Caribbean).

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:21 pm
by by738
Quoting Mugler (Reply 36):
I don't understand how AA will compete against LH and the A380 on the MIA-FRA route

Those who use OW carriers may potentially "jump ship", the lure of FF miles is very powerful, and Im sure theyve looked at the figures, plus if AB are withdrawing there will be additional German capacity needed

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:32 pm
by Miami
Quoting Mugler (Reply 36):
I don't understand how AA will compete against LH and the A380 on the MIA-FRA route

Agreed. The 767 for AA doesn't even come close to LH and their A380.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:38 pm
by Coalways
Quoting S75752 (Reply 22):
UA and DL TATL 752's have IFE, Power every seat.

UA 757 are tricked out, they have flat bed seats in the front cabin.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:48 pm
by 777STL
Quoting COalways (Reply 40):

UA 757 are tricked out, they have flat bed seats in the front cabin.

So does AA, at least the PMAA TATL 757s do.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:54 pm
by frostyj
Quoting 777stl (Reply 41):

It's not the same at all.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:01 pm
by 777STL
Quoting Frostyj (Reply 42):
It's not the same at all.

Care to expand on that? It's a flat bed product similar to UA's, so yes, what I said was correct.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:22 pm
by flyguy1
Wonder what other routes AA might shift from PHL, to JFK? Perhaps ATH and VCE? I would also assume, A330s will show up some point at JFK, esp. in the summer (FCO MAD, etc.)

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:23 pm
by Thomaas
Quoting 777stl (Reply 43):

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 42):
It's not the same at all.

Care to expand on that? It's a flat bed product similar to UA's, so yes, what I said was correct.


PHX based

I think he means in Y. AA's don't have PTVs in Y which makes it a dreadful flight.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:32 pm
by frostyj

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:33 pm
by flyforever
I wonder how profitable a destination like Birmingham can be since no one world flights are present so I assume it's a final destination

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:43 pm
by continental004
Quoting flyforever (Reply 47):

It's the connections on the JFK end that matter. LAX, SFO, MCO, DCA, SEA, etc. There aren't many but they have the high O&D. Also the AA/BA JV will benefit BA fliers on the BHX end.

RE: Official: AA MIA-FRA, JFK-BHX, JFK-EDI

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:00 pm
by StuGLA
With UA, US and now AA flying into EDI with 757s, I wonder what type they'll use if the routes are still operated when the 757s are retired (assuming an upguage isn't required).