DeltaRules
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The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:29 pm

CVG and CLE have their own threads. Let's have one which covers news for the rest of the Buckeye State (CMH, LCK, DAY, TOL, CAK, YNG, even PKB if you want since it covers Marietta)!

Looks like Vacation Express did alright with their CUN Summer charters, as they'll be back in March, this time operated by InterJet. Swift Air will also be running CMH's first ever charters to PUJ. Any idea how they did on the FPO service run this summer?
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FlyPeoria
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:53 pm

Strange that there have been no responses to this thread.

I've visited DAY once a year, most years since 1984. It is where I had my first plane ride. I remember watching PI (and later US) hub operations during the annual air show there. Unfortunately, DAY's airline service levels are so far below what they had 10, or even 5 years ago.

Service for Friday, November 14 looks about like this:

AA - 4-ORD, 3-DFW, 2-LGA = 9
DL - 4-ATL, 3-DTW, 4-MSP, 1-LGA = 12
WN - 3-BWI, 1-DEN, 1-MCO = 5
UA - 8-ORD, 1-DEN, 3-EWR, 2-IAD = 14
US - 6-CLT, 1-LGA, 5-PHL, 4-DCA = 16

Total = 56 weekday arrivals/56 weekday departures

Fortunately, AA (MD80 to DFW), DL (MD90 to ATL) and WN are using mainline jets, and it appears US has increased its use of CR7s to CLT. Hopefully, DAY will see larger aircraft (AA and UA E75s) on ORD flights within a year or two.

I'd hoped WN would have build up DAY service more with year-round flights to MCO (now seasonal) and TPA, and new flights to MDW.

Does DAY have any potential? Until recently, the central city has been in decline for over half a century, dropping from 262,332 in 1960 to 141,527 in 2010. The 2013 estimate shows a slight increase to 143,355. Its official metro population is 841,502, though in combination with Springfield, Ohio, you have 1,080,044. DAY can draw from affluent Cincinnati suburbs north of I-275. Logistics businesses are booming in the DAY area, with Caterpillar (2011) and Proctor & Gamble (2015) coming on. Fuyao North America is converting a large portion of the former General Motors Moraine assembly plant to auto glass bending (creating 1000 jobs). So perhaps the city and metro area will grow a bit in coming years.

Personally, I'd like to see G4 start DAY-LAS/AZA/SFB/PGD/PIE and UA resume DAY-IAH. Perhaps WN will someday expand service, adding MCO year-round and twice-daily DAY-MDW.
 
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YNGguins
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:13 pm

I look forward to posting in this thread in the weeks and months ahead. Hopefully the growth of YNG from 30k pax 10 years ago to a projected 120k pax this year will transpire into additional service in the near future. I know the hope is that FLL is next with Allegiant.
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DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 1):
Fortunately, AA (MD80 to DFW), DL (MD90 to ATL) and WN are using mainline jets, and it appears US has increased its use of CR7s to CLT. Hopefully, DAY will see larger aircraft (AA and UA E75s) on ORD flights within a year or two.

UA used A319s and/or A320s to ORD within the last few years. It'd be nice to see that brought back.

I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before US/AA start using CR9s to somewhere given PSA's maintenance base there.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 1):
Personally, I'd like to see G4 start DAY-LAS/AZA/SFB/PGD/PIE and UA resume DAY-IAH. Perhaps WN will someday expand service, adding MCO year-round and twice-daily DAY-MDW.

I wonder if G4 would look into DAY given its relative proximity to LCK and CVG. And I didn't realize DAY had no link to IAH, which is somewhat surprising.
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TW870
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 1):
US - 6-CLT, 1-LGA, 5-PHL, 4-DCA = 16

LGA is a bizarre market out of DAY. US uses Air Wisconsin to offer it once a day to balance out the Envoy operating as AA schedule - which has already been reduced by 1. Delta, meanwhile, has reduced to once a day from twice last year. DAY was one of the new AA destinations after the DCA/LGA divestment ordeal. I commute for work on MSP to DAY and live part time in both. You can imagine my dismay when all competition between MSP and DCA/LGA disappeared (AA dropped LGA and US dropped DCA). DAY got new competition on LGA - even when Delta didn't seem to be doing particularly well to begin with on DAY-LGA. I wonder if DL and AA will go at it long term on DAY-LGA, or if someone will blink. AA has a better schedule now, but I would guess the DL has a significantly larger FF base locally - and certainly has more connectivity at LGA.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:43 am

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 1):
I'd hoped WN would have build up DAY service more with year-round flights to MCO (now seasonal) and TPA, and new flights to MDW.

I'd be surprised if it added DAY-MDW since it could of but hasn't for a time now. I think it prefers addng flights that are longer than 5 hours of drive time.

DSM-MDW is just over 5 hours. If the drive was any shorter, it might not have been added.

GRR wasn't linked to MDW, but DTW and CLE still have high frequency MDW flights. Both are primary airports of top 20 metropolitan areas, however, and rather longstanding routes.

[Edited 2014-11-03 20:44:52]
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:48 am

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 1):
Personally, I'd like to see G4 start DAY-LAS/AZA/SFB/PGD/PIE and UA resume DAY-IAH.

Another route Smisek dropped; it's one that a CR7 or an E170 would be suitable for.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:51 am

I fly to DAY about every five weeks. Wife works in Huber Heights. I just want to say what a pain it is to fly to DAY from SFO and vice versa. I am a UA flier and either connect through DEN or ORD. Either way, with connection time, it is a 6-7 hour flight. ORD is a pain to connect through with delays and UAX cancellations.

On the other hand, I can go from our home in Huber to the airport gate in about 25 minutes.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 6):
Another route Smisek dropped; it's one that a CR7 or an E170 would be suitable for.

I'm pretty sure at one point it was 2x ERJ. I'm pretty surprised they aren't running it, then again, not a lot surprises me from UA.

What are the international capabilities of DAY? I would think they could handle charters to places like CUN and PUJ. I think the next logical domestic addition to DAY would be MIA though. With a large combined US/AA presence would think there's enough Int'l connections and O/D to MIA.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:16 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 5):
I'd be surprised if it added DAY-MDW since it could of but hasn't for a time now. I think it prefers addng flights that are longer than 5 hours of drive time.

Unfortunately I think this is right. With airline costs where they are, and with their ability to use aircraft more profitably on longer trips, the short routes are disappearing. Getting to Chicago from DAY is a nightmare. The drive is terrible unless you go very late at night, as the truck traffic on I-70 and 65 is very heavy, and Chicagoland traffic is choked coming in from Northwest Indiana. Flying is expensive and even less reliable than driving, as you are on an AA or UA 50-seater that is always gummed up in flow issues at ORD. I would use WN MDW service all the time….
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:19 pm

DAY intrigues me from it's former hub days as PI/US. Does anyone know why PI picked DAY as a hub? Was its population bigger at the time? Or was it just part of the fad that every airline seemed to have a midwest hub at that time and DAY was available? How big was the hub at its peak?
 
TW870
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:07 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 10):
DAY intrigues me from it's former hub days as PI/US. Does anyone know why PI picked DAY as a hub? Was its population bigger at the time?

In this source, I count 55 peak day departures:

http://www.departedflights.com/DAY85intro.html

This is from 1985. With the intensifying loss of the U.S. industrial base, Dayton has been declining economically since the 1960s, and that decline got worse and worse as the year 2000 approached. Things seemed to have leveled off, but with the region on much harder times than 40 years ago. I think PI picked the DAY hub because it helped build east-west flows across the middle of the country, and since its small size would protect PI from the threat of a larger, stronger carrier setting up a hub there. Ultimately, before the LCCs initiated a drastic reduction in fares across the whole country, mid-sized hubs in mid-sized cities could be profitable for legacy carriers. As fares have fallen, larger scale and a larger regional economic base have been necessary to maintain profitability. I fly out of Dayton every couple of weeks, and if only I could have that PI schedule - or a drink in the TW Ambassador club!
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 3):
UA used A319s and/or A320s to ORD within the last few years. It'd be nice to see that brought back.

I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before US/AA start using CR9s to somewhere given PSA's maintenance base there.

I'd like to see UA mainline again, but have doubts. DAY held onto 1 or 2 UA flights through the bankruptcy a decade ago up until recently. I'd be happy if they got 76-seat RJ's and retained 5-6 ORD frequencies.

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 3):
I wonder if G4 would look into DAY given its relative proximity to LCK and CVG. And I didn't realize DAY had no link to IAH, which is somewhat surprising.

Well...G4 flies to BMI, MLI, PIA and SPI. I figured DAY's catchment area would easily generate sufficient traffic to major G4 focus cities. The lack of service from DAY to PHX or LAS might be an opportunity for them, and a decline in Florida nonstops would as well.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 10):
DAY intrigues me from it's former hub days as PI/US. Does anyone know why PI picked DAY as a hub? Was its population bigger at the time? Or was it just part of the fad that every airline seemed to have a midwest hub at that time and DAY was available? How big was the hub at its peak?

In addition to what TW870 wrote, PI's DAY hub began on July 1, 1982. The airline built it up fairly quickly from 16 departures (instead of a planned 20 due to PATCO strike restrictions) to 38 within a year. It was probably at its peak just prior to its merger into US. The March 1989 OAG shows 77 weekday departures, plus 58 weekday PI Commuter departures. My April 1990 OAG shows US with 80 weekday mainline and 60 weekday US Express departures. The hub declined slightly until phased out on January 7, 1992.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:30 am

DAY's layout has always interested me. It's been several years since I've been to C (now A) concourse, but wasn't there an entire lower level under the existing concourse which could've been used as one big gate area for regional flights? I arrived at C2 on a US Dornier 328 from PHL in 2002 and seem to remember something like that.
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:44 am

Great idea for a thread, I'm always interested in hearing news about the other Ohio airports besides CLE. I'll admit I'm biased, but might we also include CVG/LUK? It wasn't mentioned in the OP that it has its own thread, but that's unfortunately not so. I've tried on a couple occasions to start up a running thread, however CVG alone does not appear to have the fan base/user interest of CLE and PIT to sustain such a thread.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 12):
Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 3):
UA used A319s and/or A320s to ORD within the last few years. It'd be nice to see that brought back.

I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before US/AA start using CR9s to somewhere given PSA's maintenance base there.

I'd like to see UA mainline again, but have doubts. DAY held onto 1 or 2 UA flights through the bankruptcy a decade ago up until recently. I'd be happy if they got 76-seat RJ's and retained 5-6 ORD frequencies.

Mainline short-haul from Chicago unfortunately appears to be a dying breed.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 13):

Thanks for the info. I've always been curious about PI mini-hub at DAY. Hard to believe there were daily nonstops to LAX and SFO! I've also always been curious about the abandoned PI concourse at DAY (concourse D I believe), does anyone have pics?
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:17 am

to think I used to take the TWA Tristars
from LAX-Day in the early 80s Nonstop
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FlyPeoria
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 15):
Thanks for the info. I've always been curious about PI mini-hub at DAY. Hard to believe there were daily nonstops to LAX and SFO! I've also always been curious about the abandoned PI concourse at DAY (concourse D I believe), does anyone have pics?
DAY's website has a history section which include historic photos of the 1961 terminal. There are also birdseye views of the PI concourse (all 10 of its gates filled), and a 1970s view showing the three concourse before installation of the second level and jetways (1977, according to John Stroud's Airports of the World).

http://www.flydayton.com/index.php?page=history

That "abandoned PI concourse" was used by DL for many years. I know it was in 1987, but that carrier had moved to the B (South) concourse by the time of my next visit in 1990. It was in use by US then, and I believe it closed when the hub ended in early 1992, and was torn down in the last few years.

[Edited 2014-11-05 07:33:40]
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting flynlr (Reply 16):
to think I used to take the TWA Tristars
from LAX-Day in the early 80s Nonstop

It seems DAY had more widebody service than was typical for a city its size. I believe TW started DAY-IND-LAX-DAY Tristar service in late 1973 to support the heavy defense contractor-related traffic traveling to and from Southern California. DL even used Tristars for a time in the early 1980s (DAY-CVG-LAX, IIRC).

For a time in 1986, TW used a 767 on a DAY-STL-LAX roundtrip (competition for PI nonstops?) and a Tristar during the Christmas travel season of late 1986 and early 1987.

Seeing Delta DC-8-73s at DAY was pretty cool too, same for 757s. The Emery daysort in 1998-2001 used mostly DC-8s!

[Edited 2014-11-05 07:49:41]
 
TW870
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 17):
That "abandoned PI concourse" was used by DL for many years. I know it was in 1987, but that carrier had moved to the B (South) concourse by the time of my next visit in 1990.

So PI used both the abandoned concourse and the current A, correct? It appears that way from the photos in the link above. So in the 1980s TW would have been the large operator in the current B, right? Where was the Ambassador Club?
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:41 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 10):
DAY intrigues me from it's former hub days as PI/US. Does anyone know why PI picked DAY as a hub? Was its population bigger at the time? Or was it just part of the fad that every airline seemed to have a midwest hub at that time and DAY was available? How big was the hub at its peak?

Piedmont built three hubs in the early 1980’s at airports they believed were significantly underserved and where incumbents were scaling back – Charlotte, Dayton and Baltimore. DAY was not a Piedmont city, BWI was a tiny station before hubbing and even Charlotte was just a minor point with perhaps 15 or so daily departures before Piedmont built a hub. Both Dayton and Charlotte were built heavily to serve connecting traffic from regional cities as well. In Charlotte’s case many of these were cities with long Piedmont affiliation like Roanoke, Wilmington, Greensboro, etc. Piedmont had for years carried a lot of traffic from VA/NC/WV cities to Atlanta, DC and Chicago where they connected to the flights of trunk airlines. Charlotte was about funneling those same passengers through their own new hub to their final destination. Dayton, on the other hand, was all new ground for Piedmont. It wasn’t only about Dayton but about several smaller counterparts who had seen their air service slashed. Dayton was chosen as the hub because of the relative size and strength of the local market, but also “chosen” were places like Toledo, Grand Rapids, Champaign, South Bend, Fort Wayne, Flint, etc. All of these had seen serious cuts in part because of deregulation changes and because of the serious recession gripping them. Several (though not Dayton) had in particular seen serious cuts by United. It could just as easily been a Toledo hub, a Grand Rapids hub, an Akron hub, etc. except that Dayton was the biggest prize and in a workable geographic configuration.



The Dayton hub was highly banked and focused exclusively on connections between key destinations and feeder flights. It was designed to quickly and efficiently serve connecting markets like GRR-DCA, CAK-DFW, FWA-MCO, etc. with 3 or 4 mainline options per day. They did not focus on connections like MCO-DEN, DFW-BOS, etc. The banks were not timed to do that. it’s worth noting that Piedmont did promote “hopscotch” fares throughout their system where you might find a Denver-Newark fare on Piedmont cheaper than a United nonstop but Piedmont’s routing would stop in Louisville and Richmond on the way. But that was not what Dayton was built to do, and if you did have a LGA-MCO routing through Dayton you probably had a three-hour connection. The Dayton network was something of an island at first – it was a few years before even Dayton was linked nonstop to the Baltimore and Charlotte hubs.

Over time and with the arrival of PI* things began to mature a bit – DAY flights into the CLT and BWI hubs, some point-to-point prop flying like Chicago and Detroit, etc. Over time places like South Bend, Grand Rapids, etc. became less “underserved” as hubs matured in Cincinnati, Chicago Midway, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. When Piedmont came into Fort Wayne, for example, there was no Republic to Detroit, no USAir to Pittsburgh, no US/CO hub in Cleveland, and minimal linkage to limited Delta hub in CVG. FWA did have prop flights to some of these cities but it was changeable, not major-airline branded, and often 19-seat aircraft. Within a few years, however, places like Fort Wayne had more links to more hubs with larger aircraft than ever before. One of those hubs was the US Air hub in Pittsburgh. When USAir bought Piedmont and folded them in, the role which Dayton served for cities like South Bend was redundant when Pittsburgh offered so much more. Without the feed coming in from Fort Wayne, Grand Rapids, etc., Dayton could not support nearly the level of service the hub had provided it, and so when the feeder routes ended most of the outbound flying.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:10 am

Thanks for the informative post knope2001. Now that I look at the schedule I see exactly what you mean. In 1985, they had arrivals from places like FWA, TOL, EVV, GRR, etc., all in about 5 minutes of each other at 7:40am, 11:10am, 3:40pm, and 7:15pm. Not all cities got service on all banks. But clearly they could funnel people on to places like SFO, DEN, DFW, DCA, etc. Now I understand much better how they were able to sustain so much mainline service to small towns. Those rust belt cities really got hit in the 1979-1983 period as the legacies moved airplanes into larger markets to jockey for position in the post-deregulation shakeout. I now see that PI was trying to fill the void.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:10 am

I can't remember where I read it online, but I saw at one point that DL was considering DAY for their Midwest hub which eventually became CVG.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 18):
Seeing Delta DC-8-73s at DAY was pretty cool too, same for 757s. The Emery daysort in 1998-2001 used mostly DC-8s!

Delta used 757s into DAY for a year or two in the early 2000s. I remember seeing the morning originator being listed in the timetable as one.
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:48 am

With all the talk about PI in and out of DAY, here are some pics collected from their time in TOL (via the FlyTOL facebook page)...

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/485235_10150674896168563_2017715155_n.jpg?oh=e95a071b5870ae88486a84f31b77305d&oe=54E90E5F

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/484895_10150674896128563_369788603_n.jpg?oh=ee11e9806884d8812d9d5e1ab0599e2c&oe=54EEB536

Flight of course operated to DAY and eventually replaced by USAir Express operated by Jetstream Int'l (today's PSA) before finally being pulled in favor of flights to the IND hub - or whatever people want to call it.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting TW870 (Reply 19):
So PI used both the abandoned concourse and the current A, correct? It appears that way from the photos in the link above. So in the 1980s TW would have been the large operator in the current B, right? Where was the Ambassador Club?

Not sure, but I'd say with PI's continuing expansion, it needed more than 10 gates on Concourse B, so DL moved to Concourse C. When exactly they did this, I don't know but was anytime from 1987 to 1989.

TWA once had as many as 28 departures from DAY in the late 1970s, so it dominated one side of Concourse B. I believe its gates were always on the south side. I've never flown out of DAY, so I'm not sure where TWA's Ambassador Club was located, however; the existing "Dayton Marketplace" is a good bet.

http://www.flydayton.com/index.php?page=concourse-b

[Edited 2014-11-06 07:48:17]
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:47 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 22):
I can't remember where I read it online, but I saw at one point that DL was considering DAY for their Midwest hub which eventually became CVG.

I remember seeing that too so I Googled and found it at http://www.blogsouthwest.com/flashback-fridays-dayton-airtran/

Quote:
During the 1960s and 1970s, Delta had a large operation that even included the L-1011 TriStar. In fact, Delta had looked at making DAY their Mid West hub, but its lack of freeway access at the time caused the hub to go to the Cincinnati Airport in Northern Kentucky.


DL opened a CVG mini-hub in 1981, so I assume that's about when it considered DAY. I remember a news item in Aviation Week & Space Technology from about 1986 mentioning PeoplExpress planning mini-hubs at St. Louis, Chicago (MDW?) and DAY! Obviously, nothing happened.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 25):
I remember a news item in Aviation Week & Space Technology from about 1986 mentioning PeoplExpress planning mini-hubs at St. Louis, Chicago (MDW?) and DAY! Obviously, nothing happened.

The PeoplExpress minihub for Chicago was planned for ORD, as PEX had bought Britt, which had a ton of ORD slots.

After Texas Air bought PEX, Lorenzo sold the ORD Britt slots to AA, who leased some of them out to Eagle carriers.
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:33 pm

I'm not sure exactly what Delta has changed at CMH, but they've started using gate 49 for some Atlanta flights. They had not used these gates for most of the summer.
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DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:26 pm

Something worth pointing out at CMH: AA has moved for the most part to B20 on the North side of the concourse and the newly created B19 and B21 on the South side. The jetway and seating area for B21 sticks out of what was apparently built over the switchback ramps which accessed the lower-level gates for Skybus. The live flight info page on the airport's site shows they still use B34 at times.

Quoting tlecam (Reply 27):
I'm not sure exactly what Delta has changed at CMH, but they've started using gate 49 for some Atlanta flights. They had not used these gates for most of the summer.

I know during the renovations to C that they used C47-C53 for a time and still seem to have monitors and podiums at all the gates on C. I've noticed they RON planes at C50, but didn't know about C49. Is there an extra RON?
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:22 am

WN announces CMH-DCA beginning April 8, 2015.

Never would've seen that coming in a million years!
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cxb744
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 29):
WN announces CMH-DCA beginning April 8, 2015.

Never would've seen that coming in a million years!

WN has a good history of going after US routes and with WN now really going after busness travelers, this seems a pefect fit.
What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
 
rtalk25
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:13 am

Quoting cxb744 (Reply 30):
WN has a good history of going after US routes and with WN now really going after busness travelers, this seems a pefect fit.

It's only 1x daily via WN. Does WN expect some pax to fly in via DCA maybe return via BWI or vice-versa? Or maybe it'll slowly build it up to 2-3x daily (but at the loss of something else).
 
as739x
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:28 am

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 6):
Another route Smisek dropped; it's one that a CR7 or an E170 would be suitable for.

You really don't think the CEO had much to do with this, right?

These routes are decided by Management at a lower level then the CEO.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
flyinryan99
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 31):
It's only 1x daily via WN. Does WN expect some pax to fly in via DCA maybe return via BWI or vice-versa? Or maybe it'll slowly build it up to 2-3x daily (but at the loss of something else).

And like CAK, it's a midday flight. It seems as WN has a few slots they really don't know what to do with and picked CAK and CMH to run midday flights which is unsuitable for an out and back day trip.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 33):
It seems as WN has a few slots they really don't know what to do with and picked CAK and CMH to run midday flights which is unsuitable for an out and back day trip.

DL briefly restarted CMH-DCA on ERJs in 2011 or 2012 after dropping it when the focus city went away. I can't remember why, but I feel like I remember seeing on here it had something to do with being a placeholder before the US/DL slot swap.

I flew it on a Saturday morning and there were 9 people on the flight.
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flyinryan99
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 34):
I flew it on a Saturday morning and there were 9 people on the flight.

The CAK-DCA flight?
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 35):
The CAK-DCA flight?

No, CMH-DCA on an ERJ. I get that it was a Saturday, but 9/50 filled.
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brooklynchris13
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:12 am

Thanks for starting the thread, always good to see my hometown (CMH) talked about on Airliners.net. Even better the discussions about the PI operation at DAY. I have vivid memories of flying CMH-DAY-MCO on PI. The CMH to DAY leg was on a J31 flight that made up for its short duration with the turbulence.

As far as more recent events, its interesting to see some recent aircraft changes at CMH, particularly the increased presence of MD90s; 738s; and what looks to be mainline restoration on US to CLT in the form of 319s.. not huge but an improvement.

I'm curious what anyone's thoughts are on potential new routes or increased capacity from CMH may be. It seems as though CMH has stabilized and started to rebound somewhat from '08 and '09. The recent LAX flights on AA are a good sign, even with the reduction from daily to (4) days a week. Maybe a 319 will be better for than route than a 738? Further, are there any obvious point to point business routes that might be introduced or restored? The only hub connectivity that seems to be missing is UA to SFO and DL to SLC (which has come, gone, and come again, and gone again). Thoughts?

Thanks again,

Chris
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:01 pm

G4 announces LCK-FLL to go along with SFB, PIE, PGD, and MYR.

Allegiant at Rickenbacker has done remarkably well given nobody else lasted more than a year (though, granted, most of those who tried it before disappeared themselves not long after leaving).
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 33):
Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 31):It's only 1x daily via WN. Does WN expect some pax to fly in via DCA maybe return via BWI or vice-versa? Or maybe it'll slowly build it up to 2-3x daily (but at the loss of something else).

And like CAK, it's a midday flight. It seems as WN has a few slots they really don't know what to do with and picked CAK and CMH to run midday flights which is unsuitable for an out and back day trip.

It will be interesting to see if either/both of these stick around long term (and are expanded as WN gains or reshuffles slots), or if they are indeed just squatting on these for now until they figure out another use. CMH at least (can't speak for CAK myself) is a decent WN operation with fairly good local market loyalty and visibility, so it's not an unreasonable choice for them.

Almost seems a bit like US adding DCA-CVG to compete with existing DL service, bringing competition to the route (good for all), but more importantly each airline is coming from opposite ends of the route, so it plays favorably for both (granted DL failed here previously). WN is effectively drawing CMH-originating traffic, while US/AA will be the DC-originating and connecting pax. So they compete, but there also may be enough room for both to carve out some space without it being a zero-sum bloodbath.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 37):
I'm curious what anyone's thoughts are on potential new routes or increased capacity from CMH may be. It seems as though CMH has stabilized and started to rebound somewhat from '08 and '09. The recent LAX flights on AA are a good sign, even with the reduction from daily to (4) days a week. Maybe a 319 will be better for than route than a 738? Further, are there any obvious point to point business routes that might be introduced or restored? The only hub connectivity that seems to be missing is UA to SFO and DL to SLC (which has come, gone, and come again, and gone again). Thoughts?

Meant to add this to previous post, but just realized I had left it off.

I think you're spot on, maybe throw SEA in there too, with SFO and SEA both offering onward Asia connectivity in addition to West Coast/HI/AK. The counterpoint is that you can still easily get to Asia/HI/AK via ORD/LAX/DTW/MSP already, so the added benefit probably is minimal for UA to offer SFO, for example. SLC for DL offers Mountain West connectivity, but UA can do pretty much the same via DEN. To take UA as an example, there are only a handful of Asia routes unique to SFO vs. ORD, so even if CMH-Asia were a largeish market, there just isn't sufficient need to offer n/a SFO service when you can cover CMH-Asia via ORD.

I can't say there's anything else major out there, CMH seems pretty well served. CVG still seems to have more randoms like AUS/SAT/MSY, but that's probably due to DL's local traffic being able to support it, whereas those routes would be too diluted at a competitive place like CMH. CMH is great because it's fairly competitive, but that also means there aren't as many niche routes that a more concentrated presence with one carrier can bring. But again those aren't "obvious p2p business routes" either.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:45 pm

What about new players in the CMH market? With less-than-daily service to FLL (which I didn't know was the case), does NK throw their hat into the ring with daily service? How about a return by B6? Lest we forget CRAA courting BA for some sort of non-stop to LHR.
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flyinryan99
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 41):


What about new players in the CMH market? With less-than-daily service to FLL (which I didn't know was the case), does NK throw their hat into the ring with daily service? How about a return by B6? Lest we forget CRAA courting BA for some sort of non-stop to LHR.

I think CMH is well positioned for potential growth. It looks like DL flies CMH-BOS 3x ER4. I don't have the passenger statistics in front of me but I would think B6 could make a return to CMH with 2x E190. I think they could easily couple that with FLL flights. I'm really surprised there aren't daily or even double daily to FLL.

I also think CMH could get away with 4x Weekly BA 787 to LHR. I'm pretty sure that would be a good spot to start with them. I still think CMH could handle a 1x daily UA 319 to SFO
 
cxb744
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:10 pm

First class on both the American and Delta LAX flights is full 95% of the time; a mixture of paying and elite members. The airbus' are configured for less 1st class seats on both Delta and American than the 738, so a change in aircraft type is unlikely.

Also Delta is doing 2x daily CMH-LAX over Christmas.
What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
 
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:22 pm

DL ran the A320 on CMH-LAX briefly before going back to the 738.

I thought CRAA's newsletter said the double-daily DL CMH-LAX ran November 20th-January 4th, but I only find it a handful of days around Christmas.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 37):
As far as more recent events, its interesting to see some recent aircraft changes at CMH, particularly the increased presence of MD90s; 738s; and what looks to be mainline restoration on US to CLT in the form of 319s.. not huge but an improvement.

DL mainline has fortunately been common since FL came to town. CMH-ATL/CVG were often multiple 757s/M88s/738s into the mid-2000s. Then DL started throwing all kinds of RJs on the route in 2006 before AirTran scared them right back up to a 757 and 5 M88s a day. Fortunately, it seems like mainline DL to ATL isn't going anywhere, as it's often some combination of 73G/738/M88/M90 all day. MSP's had 1-2 A319s a day in recent months as well. I have to wonder if we'll see 717 action to DTW at some point.

I'm surprised UA mainline has been whittled down quite a bit. It wasn't that long ago there was a 757 DEN-CMH-ORD turn. Now it's a 738/739/A319/A320 or two a day to ORD.

I remember when A319s were the rule rather than the exception to PHL and CLT on US. It all went downhill in 2005, especially when the last CLT-CMH ERJ of the night originated at LGA and was inevitably delayed at least an hour (had it happen twice). At least the E175 is a nice ride and the next best thing to mainline. Hopefully US/AA keeps mainline to the hubs.
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miaami
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:04 am

I think the CMH-LAX flight on AA is being axed in Jan or Feb 2015
 
flyCMH
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:15 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 45):
I think the CMH-LAX flight on AA is being axed in Jan or Feb 2015

That's unfortunate. I was hoping the shift to a pmUS A319 and the less-than-daily schedule during the slow season would keep the route going. I wouldn't be surprised if DL reverted back to 3x weekly schedule they ran before AA entered the market.

Is there a glimmer of hope that this could just be a tweak in the schedule?
 
cxb744
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 45):

I think the CMH-LAX flight on AA is being axed in Jan or Feb 2015

According to the OAG thread, it will be US metal; we'll see.
What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
 
krod031
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting cxb744 (Reply 47):

Quoting miaami (Reply 45):

I think the CMH-LAX flight on AA is being axed in Jan or Feb 2015

According to the OAG thread, it will be US metal; we'll see.

It will indeed be US Metal, converting from AA to US on 1/8/15
 
miaami
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RE: The Rest Of Ohio (CMH/DAY/TOL/CAK/YNG) Thread

Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting krod031 (Reply 48):
Quoting cxb744 (Reply 47):Quoting miaami (Reply 45):I think the CMH-LAX flight on AA is being axed in Jan or Feb 2015According to the OAG thread, it will be US metal; we'll see. It will indeed be US Metal, converting from AA to US on 1/8/15

That is correct. However, it is not scheduled after 09FEB15. Not sure if this is an error as suggested in another thread or if the flight has been canceled after that date. I hope its just a schedule update error.

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