User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6022
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:02 pm

Air France has announced flights to Vancouver, starting March 29, 2015.

This flight will be on a 3-class 777-200ER. Service operates 3 times a week and then increases to 5 weekly between May 4 and September 18. After September 18, service operates 4 weekly until October 23.

Schedule:
AF374 CDG1035 – 1150YVR 772 x24
AF379 YVR1400 – 0835+1CDG 772 x24

http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/03/af-yvr-s15/

Great to see Air France expanding it's network. Congrats to AF and YVR!

-Miami   
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Boeing744
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:27 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:12 pm

Nice! Will AF's Seattle service stay the same?

I am surprised AC (or Rouge) and TS hadn't jumped on this route earlier. I am sure there is plenty of o/d vacation traffic.
 
AF1565
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:05 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:15 pm

I think TS already operates a summer seasonal YVR-CDG with the A332.
 
User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6022
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 1):
Will AF's Seattle service stay the same?

As of right now. Nothing has changed.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6022
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:16 pm

Quoting AF1565 (Reply 2):
I think TS already operates a summer seasonal YVR-CDG with the A332.

Yes, you are correct.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
ipodguy7
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:44 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 1):
Will AF's Seattle service stay the same?

As of right now. Nothing has changed.

AF hasn't flown to SEA in a few years, its all DL now. DL flies SEA-CDG
AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/B6/AS/AC/FI/NY/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ/JL
 
ANA787
Posts: 826
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:00 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):

Air France no longer flies to Seattle.
Delta took over SEA-CDG a few years ago. This will probably hurt SEA-CDG a lot I've seen many traveling YVR-SEA-CDG in the past.
 
LY777
Posts: 2532
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:53 pm

That's good news!
That could be a nice 787 route in the future!
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
User avatar
Miami
Topic Author
Posts: 6022
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 5):
AF hasn't flown to SEA in a few years, its all DL now. DL flies SEA-CDG
Quoting ANA787 (Reply 6):
Air France no longer flies to Seattle.
Delta took over SEA-CDG a few years ago

Dang it! I knew I was confused. Good catch, guys. Thanks for the correction.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
nicode
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting AF1565 (Reply 2):
I think TS already operates a summer seasonal YVR-CDG with the A332

Not direct, but via YYC.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4965
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:51 pm

This schedule offers good connections to AF's entire Africa/GCC/Indian network via CDG in both directions.

Delhi will provide a fair amount of feed + in the summer season it will attract the usual cruise traffic from EU + other forms of tourists.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2845
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:20 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 10):
Delhi will provide a fair amount of feed + in the summer season it will attract the usual cruise traffic from EU + other forms of tourists.

Wish them luck. DEL is low yielding and YVR already has plenty of one stop services to DEL. All the Asian hubs that YVR serves are better connecting points for flights to DEL, since the travel distance involved is much shorter.

The O&D is what will carry this route. Hope AF has done it's homework. It clearly sees something that AC or TS doesn't.

As for SEA, i don't think this flight will impact DL's ops much. SEA can sustain what it already has to Europe, regardless of what YVR gets on top.

What will be interesting is what is going to happen to the KL flight at YVR. With AF launching YVR and KL launching YEG, AF/KL will now have an extensive network in western Canada, to not say Canada altogether. Overcapacity might be an issue.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1365
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:14 pm

^ I am not so sure about over capacity in Western Canada. Montreal has so much capacity to Europe (probably more than YEG, YVR and YYC all combined).

The population of Alberta and BC surpass that of Quebec. So if anything, it is the realization that major cities in Western Canada now have the population masses to support more direct service.
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 12):

I'm not sure about the specifics of YEG and YYC, but I know that YYC and YVR both have AC and BA serving LHR, and TS serving LGW, all with some frequency. Combine that with KL's AMS service, FI to KEF, and the AC LH JV to FRA (and MUC from YVR) and there is quite a bit of capacity considering what equivalent sized US cities see.
 
CPA62
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:13 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
What will be interesting is what is going to happen to the KL flight at YVR. With AF launching YVR and KL launching YEG, AF/KL will now have an extensive network in western Canada, to not say Canada altogether. Overcapacity might be an issue.

KLM will be moving to year round daily service beginning 2015 Summer sched
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2845
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 12):
The population of Alberta and BC surpass that of Quebec

By 100,000 or so. That's negligible. Besides, when you compare cities, YUL has a bigger population than YVR and YYC combined. You could also add half of YEG in there as well.

Add the fact that French Canadians are culturally closer to Europe than the rest of Canada, and you see why YUL has all the service that it does. We aren't even talking about catchment areas either, in which case you could add YOW and YQB in YUL's number as well....

We are straying off subject though......back on point.......when i said overcapacity, I was talking specifically about AF/KL in western Canada. They will almost double their presence there next summer season. That's pretty significant.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-11-03 11:59:52]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
AirStunt
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:53 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:23 pm

This is great news! I've believed all along that if YVR works for KL, then it definitely should work for AF. It isn't the prettiest of all airports in Europe, but CDG offers a lot more connection options than AMS.

It won't be a "heavy premium" route, but neither is any of the other YVR- European routes including BA's and LH's.

I wonder if there has been any aggressive courting by YVR authorities to get AF to come and how much of this (if any) played a role in the launch?

With regards to SEA-CDG, would this service also serve as an alternative for those in the Pacific Northwest to DL's service? Can someone doing PDX/SEA-YVR-CDG vv bypass Canadian Immigration in both directions during the transit procedure?
 
polaris
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:32 pm

Interesting for Air France and KLM in Vancouver and Edmonton, respectively. On the other side, Air Canada will provide four daily flights to Paris and is re-introducing service to Amsterdam. Looks like a little bit of Skyteam/Star territorial targetting!
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:03 pm

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 16):
With regards to SEA-CDG, would this service also serve as an alternative for those in the Pacific Northwest to DL's service? Can someone doing PDX/SEA-YVR-CDG vv bypass Canadian Immigration in both directions during the transit procedure?

Not sure about YYC, but YVR requires just a passport check when doing an international-international connection, no passing security. Not a problem for most US passport holders, as long as they don't have a felony conviction on record. On the way TO the US from an int'l location, they would avoid Canadian passport checks, go straight to security screening and US CBP officers in YVR, arriving as a domestic pax wherever their destination is.
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:01 am

Good news! I will definitely book this one.
One thing that's awkward is the flight numbers. Why are they not consecutive? EG AF 374/375 or 378/379?

Also what does 3 class mean? Y, Y+ and J or Y, J and F? Thanks
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:21 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Air France has announced flights to Vancouver,

This does not surprise me. I hope everything works out and I'm sure it will  
Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
Great to see Air France expanding it's network. Congrats to AF and YVR!

        

Yes, congrats to both!
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:53 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15):
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 12):
The population of Alberta and BC surpass that of Quebec

By 100,000 or so. That's negligible. Besides, when you compare cities, YUL has a bigger population than YVR and YYC combined. You could also add half of YEG in there as well.

Population isn't the only factor. Also have to consider the strength of the economies. A recent article said Alberta's economy alone (not including BC) should overtake Quebec's in the next few years, with only half the population.
 
RobertS975
Posts: 939
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:17 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:22 am

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 16):
This is great news! I've believed all along that if YVR works for KL, then it definitely should work for AF. It isn't the prettiest of all airports in Europe, but CDG offers a lot more connection options than AMS.

I don't know what European points that can be reached via CDG and not from AMS, but I would take a wild assed guess that 95% of the passengers making connections to European points can get there via AMS as well. And don't even try to compare the ease of connections between the two airports... in other words, if you ever have a choice between a one hour connection at AMS or a 2 hour CDG connection, the AMS connection is the far safer one.
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:46 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
I don't know what European points that can be reached via CDG and not from AMS, but I would take a wild assed guess that 95% of the passengers making connections to European points can get there via AMS as well. And don't even try to compare the ease of connections between the two airports... in other words, if you ever have a choice between a one hour connection at AMS or a 2 hour CDG connection, the AMS connection is the far safer one.

Yes, and there are many UK and Scandinavian destinations only flown from AMS, not CDG for example.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:12 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
I don't know what European points that can be reached via CDG and not from AMS, but I would take a wild assed guess that 95% of the passengers making connections to European points can get there via AMS as well. And don't even try to compare the ease of connections between the two airports... in other words, if you ever have a choice between a one hour connection at AMS or a 2 hour CDG connection, the AMS connection is the far safer one.

Totally wrong.

AirFrance offers much more connection possibilities at CDG than KLM at AMS. I don't know where you get your "95%" from but it is totally inaccurate.

Air France serves 183 destinations in 98 countries ... while KLM serves 131 destinations in 65 countries …

And the connection at CDG2E/F now is as easy as AMS or FRA and certainly much more convenient the LHR
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:35 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
Quoting AirStunt (Reply 16):
This is great news! I've believed all along that if YVR works for KL, then it definitely should work for AF. It isn't the prettiest of all airports in Europe, but CDG offers a lot more connection options than AMS.

I don't know what European points that can be reached via CDG and not from AMS, but I would take a wild assed guess that 95% of the passengers making connections to European points can get there via AMS as well. And don't even try to compare the ease of connections between the two airports... in other words, if you ever have a choice between a one hour connection at AMS or a 2 hour CDG connection, the AMS connection is the far safer one.


A lot of KLM flights to secondary destinations in Europe have been taken over by transavia or cityhopper, which has put people off - well at least me! Sure, AF will do the same with HOP!, but in the meantime they are still mainline.
 
lexer
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:21 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:54 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 24):
Air France serves 183 destinations in 98 countries ... while KLM serves 131 destinations in 65 countries …

The question is more which airline offers convenient connections to secondary destinations that are relevant for Vancouver. I have no numbers on this, but from that perspective the difference between KL and AF could be a lot smaller, if not reverse it.

kl911 rightly pointed out the strength of KLM in the UK and Scandinavia, and these regions should be important for a market like Vancouver. Also, more AF destinations in the regions like the Caribbean or LATAM are irrelevant in this context.
 
canadiantree
Posts: 137
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:29 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:56 am

Quoting nicode (Reply 9):

Not all TS flights stop in YYC, in fact most don't.
 
TYCOON
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:20 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:57 am

One needs just to look at this as maximizing the number of potential A to B points for the Groupe as a whole, not as being more via AMS than CDG or vice versa. More flexibility in the product offer, depending on timing, length of connection etc... You can even find it more convenient to fly YVR-AMS-FCO on the outbound, but FCO-CDG-YVR on the return... and this can easily be booked as one ticket.
AF is stronger in the Mediterranean region than KLM thus offering better coverage here... same for West Africa. KL stronger in East Africa. Obviously Caribbean and LATAM are irrelevant in this case (only A.Netters would enjoy such a convoluted routing!)
 
factsonly
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 24):
Air France serves 183 destinations in 98 countries ... while KLM serves 131 destinations in 65 countries …

In recent years AF/KL has opened a number of stations to operations by both airlines; SCL, BUE, GIG, PTY, BOG, CGK, KUL come to mind.

Whenever AF/KL decides to open a station to both airlines, it does so with a clear vision: the hubs AMS and CDG are complementary to each other to a certain extent. Yes, there is of course overlap to many primary destinations, but CDG also has a clear francophone signature: i.e. France, West Africa, Indian Ocean, Vietnam, while AMS has a clear UK & Northern Europe and Anglophone signature with strength in Canada, East Africa, Indonesia, Taiwan, etc..




Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 25):
A lot of KLM flights to secondary destinations in Europe have been taken over by transavia or cityhopper, which has put people off - well at least me!

Your statement may be somewhat black and white, as the facts do not support it.

There are no KL routes that KLM has dropped in favour of HV service. What has happened is that KL commenced codeshares to HV destinations to which KL does not operate itself: ALC, AGP, CMN, NAP, etc. While the opposite HV vacating routes in favour of KL does happen. KL is now operating to HV destination: TRN, and HV announced AMS-FCO in 2014 but never started the route. While many destinations are served by both airlines: BCN, VCE, LIS, NCE, etc.

What you may be referring to, is that KLM does not dedicate destinations to exclusively mainline aircraft or just Cityhopper service. KL mixes both main line and Cityhopper aircraft to many destinations in Europe in order to build frequency. As an example: AMS-LHR has a number of Fokker 70 and E190 services, where it used to be just main-line.

But a network is always in motion and in 2014 KLM announced main line (B737) service to traditional Cityhopper destinations: BOD, TLS and LYS. This just to prove that Cityhopper routes do upgrade to mainline aircraft when demand warrants.
 
AirStunt
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:53 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:56 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 24):
Air France serves 183 destinations in 98 countries ... while KLM serves 131 destinations in 65 countries …

In addition to the connection factors, Paris is also both a much bigger financial centre and more popular tourism destination than Amsterdam. Still too early to tell, but won't surprise me down the road if this service become daily at the expense of a reduced KL frequency @ YVR.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 24):
And the connection at CDG2E/F now is as easy as AMS or FRA and certainly much more convenient the LHR

I walked E to D a couple times, and it was quite a hike

but then again .... LHR 2A to 2B is already a half-marathon on its own
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 25):
A lot of KLM flights to secondary destinations in Europe have been taken over by transavia or cityhopper, which has put people off - well at least me! Sure, AF will do the same with HOP!, but in the meantime they are still mainline.

This really surprises me. I have no problem choosing KLM Cityhopper in an E190 over AF mainline for a short flight within Europe. The service is very good - better in my opinion.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:50 pm

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 30):
Still too early to tell, but won't surprise me down the road if this service become daily at the expense of a reduced KL frequency @ YVR.


On what basis do you make this statement.

Have you ever witnessed KLM reducing frequencies from AMS to LIM, PTY, KUL or CGK when AF opened CDG service to these traditional KLM destinations.

Neither has AF reduced frequencies from CDG to SCL, BUE, GIG, BOG when KLM opened service to these AF destinations.

So.....you better be ready to be surprised, as the answer is a resounding NO !
 
AirStunt
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:53 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 33):


On what basis do you make this statement.

Have you ever witnessed KLM reducing frequencies from AMS to LIM, PTY, KUL or CGK when AF opened CDG service to these traditional KLM destinations.

Neither has AF reduced frequencies from CDG to SCL, BUE, GIG, BOG when KLM opened service to these AF destinations.

So.....you better be ready to be surprised, as the answer is a resounding NO !

And on what basis are you coming to "to a resounding NO"? Are you assuming YVR is in the same boat as the other destinations you mentioned? If you bothered reading my context carefully, I never said "it will", unlike your defiant arm chair CEO "resounding NO" response.

[Edited 2014-11-04 10:32:58]
 
AirStunt
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:53 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 6):

Quoting Miami (Reply 3):

Air France no longer flies to Seattle.
Delta took over SEA-CDG a few years ago. This will probably hurt SEA-CDG a lot I've seen many traveling YVR-SEA-CDG in the past.


Maybe someone can help refresh the developments over the years. IIRC, someone mentioned a while back that AF wanted to serve YVR for quite some time. But prior to the EU-Canada open skies agreement, were restricted to YYZ & YUL. Their inability to break into YVR led them to explore other options. If I'm not mistaken, that option was SEA-CDG? So 2-3 years after handing over the route to DL, they are coming back to the Pacific NW for a destination they have always been exploring and keen to serve?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 24):
Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 22):
I don't know what European points that can be reached via CDG and not from AMS, but I would take a wild assed guess that 95% of the passengers making connections to European points can get there via AMS as well. And don't even try to compare the ease of connections between the two airports... in other words, if you ever have a choice between a one hour connection at AMS or a 2 hour CDG connection, the AMS connection is the far safer one.


Totally wrong.

AirFrance offers much more connection possibilities at CDG than KLM at AMS. I don't know where you get your "95%" from but it is totally inaccurate.

Air France serves 183 destinations in 98 countries ... while KLM serves 131 destinations in 65 countries …

But the reply you refer to was only talking about connections to/from points in Europe, not worldwide. And since this thread involves western Canada, I would guess that the 95% number via AMS could be very accurate when you look at the O&Ds of passengers to/from that part of Canada which is probably mainly to/from half a dozen countries in Europe which are certainly all served extensively via AMS.

And looking beyond Europe, many AF destinations from CDG not served via AMS are to points with little or no demand to/from western Canada (e.g. the many French-speaking countries in north and west Africa and domestic cities in France).

[Edited 2014-11-04 17:20:09]
 
User avatar
ankaraflyjet
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:16 am

I do YVR CDG at least twice a year First or Business Class and sometimes through LHR with BA or through YYZ with AC. The amount of pax between YVR and CDG is huge as I observe in the flights always and wrote about this a couple of years ago that this is much needed. Not a fan of AF for many years but congratulate them for doing this and I will use the service of course. I got so much negative comments when I wrote about it and see the same crowd still the same opinion, however, I disagree with most. YVR deserves a CDG direct service and I am sure will do good business
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2338
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:02 am

Glad to see this materialize, from a spotters perspective if nothing else    . AC did offer a one stop service via YUL, did not have to leave the aircrat, not sure if they still do.

Quoting lexer (Reply 26):
The question is more which airline offers convenient connections to secondary destinations that are relevant for Vancouver. I have no numbers on this, but from that perspective the difference between KL and AF could be a lot smaller, if not reverse it.

KL certainly serve a lot of Scandinavia and UK destinations which is important to the YVR market.

Quoting canadiantree (Reply 27):
Not all TS flights stop in YYC, in fact most don't.

Be interesting to see how TS react. They co-exist to LON OK competing with BA, AC and until this summer VS as fares are significantly cheaper for (IMO) not much lesser service compared to AC's hi-density 77W, but it is a far larger market.

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 30):
In addition to the connection factors, Paris is also both a much bigger financial centre and more popular tourism destination than Amsterdam. Still too early to tell, but won't surprise me down the road if this service become daily at the expense of a reduced KL frequency @ YVR.

It cant be good for KL IMO, bear in mind all the lucrative cargo (see below) used to get funneled through AMS to CDG. However, there is a significant Dutch expat community in YVR, moreso than French and with the Scandinavia, UK & CIS connections hopefully they will do OK, but would not be surprised to see year round 332, no seasonal 333 upgrade.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):
And looking beyond Europe, many AF destinations from CDG not served via AMS are to points with little or no demand to/from western Canada (e.g. the many French-speaking countries in north and west Africa and domestic cities in France).

This is true for pax. However, for cargo this is an absolute gold mine for KL currently and their only real significant revenue stream. They serve the oil destinations like PHC, LOS, DLA, LBV, FIH, SSG and so on no one else done, some even with freighters and they charge some crazy rates in excess of $6/kg + +. Thing is, great for AF, but KL currently get this revenue and truck it to CDG from AMS. Their only hope is that the largest origin of this cargo YYC & YEG will continue to support their AB flights and not RFS to YVR onto AF. As I said in the YVR traffic thread, there were serious concerns by AF-KL Group prior to launching this flight how it would affect KL.

Bring back the MD-11 and I will choose KLM every time    Oh wait, I tried that, and the fares were double than via LHR of almost triple TS direct....
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
AirStunt
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:53 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:43 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 38):
Glad to see this materialize, from a spotters perspective if nothing else

Will you be there for the arrival of the inaugural flight on Mar 29? If so please take photos and post them. The arrival/turnaround/departure will all take place during daytime which is an added bonus for spotters.

Safe to assume there will be a water cannon salute and some ceremony taking place inside the terminal?
 
SASMD82
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:44 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:05 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 7):
That's good news!
That could be a nice 787 route in the future!

787 will replace A330-200 and A340-300, the A350-900 replaces the 77E. So why downsizing a route already?
 
opethfan
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:05 am

Quoting canadiantree (Reply 27):
Not all TS flights stop in YYC, in fact most don't.

I believe the schedule is YVR-YYC-LGW in the off-season, but they become individual routes during the summer.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 38):
Be interesting to see how TS react. They co-exist to LON OK competing with BA, AC and until this summer VS as fares are significantly cheaper for (IMO) not much lesser service compared to AC's hi-density 77W, but it is a far larger market.

TS seem to hold their own serving AMS and FRA from YVR as well as LGW, so they may be able to handle it.

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 39):
Will you be there for the arrival of the inaugural flight on Mar 29? If so please take photos and post them. The arrival/turnaround/departure will all take place during daytime which is an added bonus for spotters.

It's a bit far in the future to know my schedule, but I'll do my best to make it there. I don't have access to the greatest camera gear though (a D3100 with a 55-200mm lens and a 2x teleconverter)
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2845
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 35):
someone mentioned a while back that AF wanted to serve YVR for quite some time. But prior to the EU-Canada open skies agreement, were restricted to YUL. Their inability to break into YVR led them to explore other options. If I'm not mistaken, that option was SEA-CDG? So 2-3 years after handing over the route to DL, they are coming back to the Pacific NW for a destination they have always been exploring and keen to serve?

Your point is not really valid. Canada-EU has been open skies since late 2009, so AF could have launched YVR 5 year ago if the market was that strong. It wasn't, and I have my doubt's that it still isnt. Like I said, I wish them luck, but KL will suffer from this startup.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 38):
AC did offer a one stop service via YUL, did not have to leave the aircrat, not sure if they still do.


That was in the summer of 2010 only. Didn't last long.

As for your cargo argument, you're assuming the cargo is trucked from AB to BC. Why would they cross the Rockies with heavy shipments of oil equipment when YYC has KL service already? AMS to CDG is easier by truck than AB to YVR, no?


[Edited 2014-11-04 23:48:59]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Air France To Start Vancouver

Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:07 am

Don't forget that Western Canada has a large number of residents from Dutch descent, where as France of course has the majority in Eastern Canada. I can see KL stay in YVR daily.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos