Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Deltabravo1123
Topic Author
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am

American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:48 am

Crosswind landings happen all the time but this one just blew my mind! Happened at ORD last Thursday 11/6/14. Must've been quite the bump when they finally touched down.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97UnW-A4FRM

[Edited 2014-11-10 19:56:22]
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: American 737 Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:55 am

That isn't a 737. Think Embraer.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Deltabravo1123
Topic Author
Posts: 265
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:57 am

Thanks for the correction! Just changed the thread title. I should've looked a little more closely at the winglets.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13232
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:59 am

Gotta love how short this angle/lens makes the runway look!
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
as739x
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:22 am

Just looks like a damn good landing by the crew. Check out the other links on Youtube. Specially some good ones out of Germany.

Thanks for catching this Vid
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4811
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:27 am

Can someone explain why you would ever have to shoot a cross wind landing at an airport like O'Hare? There seems to be runways in every direction.
 
steex
Posts: 1438
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:37 am

CNN had this clip on its homepage earlier with the headline "Pilot Forced to Land Plane Sideways" and, after the jump, the video title is "Why plane had to land like THIS" with the url (as you can see below) "plane makes scary sideways landing." Robin Meade added some not-so-witty banter to complete the idiocy.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...es-scary-sideways-landing.hln.html

[Edited 2014-11-10 22:38:37]
 
tailskid
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:27 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:50 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 4):
Just looks like a damn good landing by the crew. Check out the other links on Youtube.
There used to be a spectacular 747 xwind landing at the old Hong Kong airport on YouTube, but I haven't been able to find it in a long time. Does anybody know the one I'm talking about?


BTW
The reason Chicago is called "the windy city" is because they used to have a mayor (Big Bill Thompson) who talked too much.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3948
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:40 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 7):
Does anybody know the one I'm talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIVjKoUewc
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
airbuster
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:43 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:18 am

Good landing, kept a little crab in. I believe the Emb. engines are quite low to the ground and therefore you shouldn't use too much wing down during strong x-wind, at least that's the method on the 737's. Maybe a E-jet-jockey can tell us?

Thanks for posting.
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:13 pm

Quoting airbuster (Reply 9):
Good landing, kept a little crab in. I believe the Emb. engines are quite low to the ground and therefore you shouldn't use too much wing down during strong x-wind, at least that's the method on the 737's. Maybe a E-jet-jockey can tell us?

Not an E jet jockey but I do recall from our manuals that a wingtip or engine pod strike occurs in the region of 15 degree bank.

Similar to most types, wing down or flare de-crab techniques are the preferred x wind methods.
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:53 pm

This is an excellent example of lens compression. This is not, as CNN stated, the plane landing sideways. The Z axis is compressed so strongly that this 8000' runway (I'm guessing it's 9R/27L) is compressed to fit on the screen all at one time. You'll also note that it appears the plane is sliding down the runway sideways as well -- that's another feature of the lens compression. If you know about airplanes (and everyone here does), you know the plane is actually pointed more or less down the runway once the nosewheel is down.

I'd go so far as to say this landing was a lot more exciting for the anchors on CNN than it was for anyone actually on the plane.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:01 pm

that looks like a pretty good landing to me.

I mean i was in an 8-seater going from BOS to JFK (before 9/11) and they had the 'door' to the cockpit open so I could see the whole landing. The pilot's head was parallel to the runway but the plane was about 30 degrees off.
Just at the last minute did the pilot lineup for the runway to make the landing. Wasn't bumpy or anything to me.
 
User avatar
tjwgrr
Posts: 2489
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:09 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:33 pm

Was that filmed from a building or a helicopter?
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1668
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:22 pm

I flew into O'hare on Thurs on a DL MD-90. Very strong winds out of the northwest which made our landing look a lot like this... For a pilot, this is no big deal at all and they land like this in O'hare because they have far more capacity landing east to west (more parallel runways). As long as the crosswind isn't higher than allowed by the airframe, these pilots can crosswind land all day long in conditions like this.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:32 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 7):
BTW
The reason Chicago is called "the windy city" is because they used to have a mayor (Big Bill Thompson) who talked too much.

No, sorry. The "windy" nickname goes back before Mr. Thompson.
It goes all the way back to the World's Fair (maybe earlier) of 1893 where Chicago and Cincinnati were jockeying for it.
Chicago's press and politicians just couldn't shut up about how "awesome" Chicago was. (Even though it was kind of a swampy backwater back in the day.)
So the CIN press jeered about the "windy city" and it's erroneous claims to have a fair.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8316
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:04 pm

Looked a little side-loady, but otherwise perfectly normal. I don't understand the "blows my mind" part? Looks entirely routine.
 
C767P
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:11 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:14 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 5):

Can someone explain why you would ever have to shoot a cross wind landing at an airport like O'Hare? There seems to be runways in every direction.

It is all about arrival rates. Landing to the west ORD can accept 114 airplanes an hour, switch it around and land to the east and it’s down to 88. To use 32R for departures and 4R for arrivals would cause significant delays…They did this on 10/31 because they were forced to (winds were 360 29G45)…
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:39 pm

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 13):
Was that filmed from a building or a helicopter?

I think it was shot on the roof of a parking garage in Rosemont, but am not for sure. Can anyone venture a better opinion?
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
lostsound
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:00 pm

Wow that's a lot of the wing flex on an Ejet! Thanks for sharing
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2517
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:04 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 6):
CNN had this clip on its homepage earlier with the headline "Pilot Forced to Land Plane Sideways" and, after the jump, the video title is "Why plane had to land like THIS" with the url (as you can see below) "plane makes scary sideways landing." Robin Meade added some not-so-witty banter to complete the idiocy.

CNN has several aviation consultants on staff, it would have been smart to ask them a question before airing the story.
 
B737900
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:44 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 16):
Looked a little side-loady, but otherwise perfectly normal. I don't understand the "blows my mind" part? Looks entirely routine.

The interesting aspect of this landing is not the crosswind component but the fact that it appears that the airplane is flying backward until just above the runway. Then travels forward to land. It's all about the POV. I viewed it a few times and damn it does look like a great feat of parallel parking.
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:40 pm

Quoting C767P (Reply 17):
It is all about arrival rates. Landing to the west ORD can accept 114 airplanes an hour, switch it around and land to the east and it’s down to 88. To use 32R for departures and 4R for arrivals would cause significant delays…They did this on 10/31 because they were forced to (winds were 360 29G45)…

Landing just 4R or 32R is an arrival rate of 36, they try not to goto a one arrival configuration unless they have to, like on 10/31.
 
LazialeMKD
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:47 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:53 pm

I have some doubts from passenger point of view. When a plane is landing with a crosswind, can the passengers actually feel the crosswind landing, I mean, can I see the runway ahead if I'm on the side of the plane which is facing the runway or everything happens too fast and the passengers are not really noticing the crosswind landing? I'm not sure that I remember seeing the runway straight ahead when I had some of the landings as a passenger.
 
N415XJ
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:04 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:17 pm

As a side note, those new Embraer winglets are darn nifty!  
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4811
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting LazialeMKD (Reply 23):

I have some doubts from passenger point of view. When a plane is landing with a crosswind, can the passengers actually feel the crosswind landing, I mean, can I see the runway ahead if I'm on the side of the plane which is facing the runway or everything happens too fast and the passengers are not really noticing the crosswind landing? I'm not sure that I remember seeing the runway straight ahead when I had some of the landings as a passenger.

Well in a large crosswind, half the passengers can see the runway better than during a normal landing!
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21816
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting LazialeMKD (Reply 23):
I have some doubts from passenger point of view. When a plane is landing with a crosswind, can the passengers actually feel the crosswind landing, I mean, can I see the runway ahead if I'm on the side of the plane which is facing the runway or everything happens too fast and the passengers are not really noticing the crosswind landing? I'm not sure that I remember seeing the runway straight ahead when I had some of the landings as a passenger.

I've only been in a strong crosswind landing that I noticed once, but yes, I saw the runway out the side window. Of course, it might have happened to me before then, but I might not have known about crosswind approaches at that time.

Pilots in this case did it right. Upwind gear touched down first. Of course, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing and any landing where they can use the plane again is a GREAT landing!  
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:14 pm

Am I the only one here that thinks this is an example of how not to do it? This would have been a fine landing in an Ercoupe, not an airliner.

For starters, the pilot drifted most of the way through the touchdown zone. Then there was little or no de-crabbing of the airplane. Furthermore, there is little evidence the pilot input the ailerons into the wind after the landing. For the passengers the sideload would have been very unsettling, not to mention the wear on the gear assembly and tires. For all of those that think this was a good landing, I disagree. I'm not highly experienced, but with 7K+ hrs of jet time it stands for something. Are there any pilots here that disagree?

Cheers!

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
lhrnue
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:42 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 4):

Just looks like a damn good landing by the crew. Check out the other links on Youtube. Specially some good ones out of Germany.

mmmh ... the video recommendation I get from youtube is "Pretty Women Playing Sports 1080 HD" ... wonder why
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1386
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):

I'm with you. I'll refrain from further comment but I this is a poor example of stick and rudder (or lack thereof) skills and a prime example of how not to do it.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting LazialeMKD (Reply 23):
I have some doubts from passenger point of view. When a plane is landing with a crosswind, can the passengers actually feel the crosswind landing, I mean, can I see the runway ahead if I'm on the side of the plane which is facing the runway or everything happens too fast and the passengers are not really noticing the crosswind landing? I'm not sure that I remember seeing the runway straight ahead when I had some of the landings as a passenger.

OH, I've noticed. The runway certainly looks off to an angle. And we've come down on one wheel a couple times. Those awake know something is up.
There was also a lot of swaying in my two instances.
Pretty scary, but fun!
WELCOME TO CHICAGO!
 
User avatar
csturdiv
Posts: 1991
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:48 pm

Quoting planespotting (Reply 18):
Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 13):
Was that filmed from a building or a helicopter?

I think it was shot on the roof of a parking garage in Rosemont, but am not for sure. Can anyone venture a better opinion?

I believe it was shot from ABC 7's traffic/news helicopter.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:57 pm

Quoting LazialeMKD (Reply 23):
When a plane is landing with a crosswind, can the passengers actually feel the crosswind landing, I mean, can I see the runway ahead if I'm on the side of the plane which is facing the runway or everything happens too fast and the passengers are not really noticing the crosswind landing?

In some instances, you may be able to see the runway.

Also, you may feel the yaw with pilots kicking the rudder.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Pilots in this case did it right. Upwind gear touched down first.

If a different technique used, the MLGs may well touch down simultaneously. Particularly if the pilot decides to use a partial decrab or the skid technique and decrab post touchdown. Of course, depending on aircraft type and crab angle, the gear side loads could be an issue.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8316
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):
Are there any pilots here that disagree?

I'd agree. I was waiting for the right wing to dip into the wind and the nose to straighten out, and it just never did. You can get away with that in a jet, but smaller airplanes are liable to get very unsettled doing that. That said, it wasn't horrendous... it's a nice long runway and they got it down on the centerline. Par for the course I guess.

Go to Logan and watch the Cape Air guys do crosswind landings. They show up the heavy jets over and over and over again.
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:40 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 20):
CNN has several aviation consultants on staff, it would have been smart to ask them a question before airing the story.

And miss out on all the extra clicks they can get by scaring the public with "IT LANDED SIDEWAYS?!?!?!"

Why would they do that?

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):

Are you sure that's not just the lens compression? For instance, he touched down with about 6000 feet to spare on a 7800 foot runway. Remember, lens compression exaggerates the lateral distances by shortening the depth dimension. (In English, it squashes everything so that it appears to be sideways.)
 
wing
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:17 am

Does anybody has the actual weather information of the time that video shot?
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):

For starters, the pilot drifted most of the way through the touchdown zone.

It's not easy to tell but it does look like it landed within the tdz.

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):
Then there was little or no de-crabbing of the airplane.

As I mentioned, landing with a crab angle could well be one of the prescribed x wind procedures in the E jet AFM. It may be a tad crude and lack finesse but it gets the job done.

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):
the sideload would have been very unsettling, not to mention the wear on the gear assembly and tires.

It's difficult to know what the surface conditions are, but some aircraft types can make use of the skid technique and decrab post flare when the runway is wet.

I'll have a gander at the manuals later and get back to you.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1386
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

RE: American Embraer Crosswind Landing At O'Hare

Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:46 pm

I don't know what the exact conditions were at the time of that particular landing, but that day the prevailing conditions at O'Hare were mostly winds out of the north around 25 knots gusting to over 40 knots for most of the day. I assume they were landing on the 27s or 28s (though could have been 4R if they're still using that for arrivals) so it would have been a pretty stiff crosswind if that was the case.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos