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SLCSFOPDX
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Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:49 pm

Simple question, why doesn't EK fly to Tel Aviv, Berlin, and Atlanta? I would think those three destinations would be very successful for EK.
 
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GE9X
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
why doesn't EK fly to Tel Aviv

Are you serious? Pigs will fly before the Arabs ever fly to Israel willingly. The only exceptions are Egypt and Jordan, which happen to be the only two Arab countries who even recognize the Jewish state as a legitimate sovereign nation. Good luck entering Saudi Arabia, Qatar, even the UAE, with an Israeli stamp on your passport.

[Edited 2014-11-12 14:01:22]
 
David_itl
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
Berlin,

Can't operate there without dropping another German city
 
32andBelow
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
Simple question, why doesn't EK fly to Tel Aviv,

Because they hate Israel
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:01 pm

TLV: If you know the state of Arab-Israeli relations, you'll know why it's not on the EK route map.

TXL: What LH wants is what LH gets in Germany - in this case, extremely restrictive bilaterals that strongly favor German airlines.

ATL: This one I can see in the near future. DL flies ATL-DXB with huge feed on the ATL end, while EK could coexist because of the inverse.
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kaitak
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:02 pm

Tel Aviv? Can you imagine it ... the check in deadline would be about eighteen hours and you can just imagine how welcoming Israeli security guards would be to 400+ passengers bound for an Arab country.

And in practical terms, how would they get there? Which of the neighbouring countries would allow overflight rights to a TLV bound flight?!

As for the others ... Berlin is out for the moment, because poor, defenceless little Lufty went crying to Mama Merkel, to protect them against the evil crusaders from the east. Short sighted protectionism on Germany's part and Berlin loses; is LH going to fly TXL/BER-DXB? No sign of it.

ATL could happen, although DL is flying the route now. EK has indicated a wish to increase considerably its US revenue.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:03 pm

TLV will NOT happen for political reasons... TXL would be a great addition but with the current bilateral, another city would have to be dropped so I doubt that would happen...as for ATL, it will happen. As to when, that is the question. EK have stated ATL is a city under consideration as have TK and QR. I have never heard of EY mention ATL, although if DL were to get cozy with EY like AF/KL have, then maybe however AA is the US partner for EY.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:05 pm

Last time I had to fly to the UAE (for work), the immigration officer checked all pages of my passport if I had an Israeli stamp in it.
If you have been to Israel, there is no entering the UAE.

Jan
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Iloveboeing
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:06 pm

It is a valid question. Without turning this into an Israel vs. Palestine debate, I wish the UAE and the rest of the Islamic world would put their hatred towards Israel aside and allow EK to look at this from a business standpoint. Jerusalem is a holy site to three of the world's major religions. That alone would attract tourists like crazy. EK can and should operate into TLV and not allow religious and political prejudice to stand in the way.

Another example is Chick-Fil-A, long associated with the southeastern United States. They're now a multi billion dollar corporation and now operate in many areas where people don't necessarily agree with all of their values. But in the end, the chicken sandwich is still excellent.

EK should fly to TLV. They would make money. Trust me.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):


As for the others ... Berlin is out for the moment, because poor, defenceless little Lufty went crying to Mama Merkel, to protect them against the evil crusaders from the east. Short sighted protectionism on Germany's part and Berlin loses; is LH going to fly TXL/BER-DXB? No sign of it.

Who says an airline must be given unlimited rights ? UAE isn't "protectionist" because their home market is so tiny there's nothing to draw from for foreign carriers.

UAE has what to DE? 49 weekly frequencies? that's like 7 dailies ? and how many of those seats are true O&D? 5%? 10%?
 
boysteve
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 8):
It is a valid question. Without turning this into an Israel vs. Palestine debate, I wish the UAE and the rest of the Islamic world would put their hatred towards Israel aside and allow EK to look at this from a business standpoint. Jerusalem is a holy site to three of the world's major religions. That alone would attract tourists like crazy. EK can and should operate into TLV and not allow religious and political prejudice to stand in the way.

hmmm, is this the new definition of the word 'naive; in the Oxford English Dictionary!!!

OK, from a pure buisness case you may be correct, but it has to work in the 'real world' remember.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:19 pm

ATL:EK probably will operate to in the future but DL will get furious and DL will tell on EK to the FAA (Like what there doing to EK on JFK-MXP and what there doing to DY   )

TXL: Protected by german government and EK is also trying to use Stugratt but the same problem arises with it also being protected by the german government.EY is also not allowed to do much anymore so there using AB to do it for them and lets just wait and see about AZ (Probably not good   )

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Miami
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:23 pm

ATL isn't served by EK because of DL. But could coexist later on.
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:24 pm

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 8):
Another example is Chick-Fil-A, long associated with the southeastern United States. They're now a multi billion dollar corporation and now operate in many areas where people don't necessarily agree with all of their values. But in the end, the chicken sandwich is still excellent.

uh....since the mid 1860's parts of the US that dont necessarily agree with the other have been at least civil in not, you know, bombing each other, and other minuscule things of that nature.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
ATL could happen, although DL is flying the route now. EK has indicated a wish to increase considerably its US revenue.

another "why isn't Emirates in my town" post - but i will say this - when it does happen, wouldn't you all love to be in the room when Delta's top management finds out they're coming to town.
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Ab345
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:50 pm

Direct quote from wiki. As simple as can get:

Israel – United Arab Emirates relations do not currently exist. The United Arab Emirates does not recognize Israel as a state, and the two countries do not have diplomatic or economic relations.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:50 pm

DL would likely yank their ticketing and baggage agreement with EK (like they did to QR/TK) if the latter were to start flying DXB-ATL. That would deprive EK of feed to/from the ATL hub. Although it may look as though there is a lot of O&D demand out of ATL because of DL, the reality is that there is likely very little demand to/from the city itself, thereby making it undesirable as a destination. BA/LH are already serving the market along with DL/KL/AF/VS, so there are many, many ways to get to India and the Mid-East on an international flight out of ATL.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:51 pm

You can fly with an Israeli passport with the ME3. Some Israelis just drive to AMM and connect there. Qatar also allows Israeli visitors into their country.

Hundreds of thousands of passengers transit each week through AUH, DXB and SHJ, and just by pure statistics, a few dozens of them have been to Israel and a number had their passport stamped. How many times do you hear about passengers refused at DXB/AUH because of an Israeli stamp? So this thing of "Last time in DXB they checked my passport to see whether I had Israeli stamps"... what to say!

Emirates and Etihad have surely better things to do than refuse Western passengers to transit or enter the country because a Israeli stamp.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:57 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 15):
the reality is that there is likely very little demand to/from the city itself, thereby making it undesirable as a destination

I'd say that that's more your personal opinion than any assessment based in fact.

ATL is no JFK/MIA/etc, but it is a 6.1million person CSA that's also home to multiple Fortune500s.

The lack of secondary and tertiary carriers, in the face of the world's largest hub, does not in any way negate the fact that ATL has plenty of int'l demand.
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 16):

Emirates and Etihad have surely better things to do than refuse Western passengers to transit or enter the country because a Israeli stamp.

The UAE embassy website says that you can enter their country with a stamp from Israel. But since you cannot enter with an Israeli passport as that region refuses to recognise the state of Israel, flights between countries is a non starter.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:09 pm

Quoting GE9X (Reply 1):
Good luck entering Saudi Arabia, Qatar, even the UAE, with an Israeli stamp on your passport.

Saudi Arabia, yes. Qatar and UAE no. I have entered both with multiple Israeli stamps in my passport. The embassy of Qatar even advised me beforehand that this would not be a problem at all (and it wasn't). The UAE embassy website states that it is a non-issue.

Consensus seems to be that the Israeli stamp problem is really only applicable in Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iran anymore.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):

Last time I had to fly to the UAE (for work), the immigration officer checked all pages of my passport if I had an Israeli stamp in it.
If you have been to Israel, there is no entering the UAE.

This simply is not true anymore (at least in the last few years) and the UAE embassy website says as much. At this point it is internet rumor and nothing more.

  

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
ATL: This one I can see in the near future. DL flies ATL-DXB with huge feed on the ATL end, while EK could coexist because of the inverse.

ATL could happen although its covered well with DL's service to DXB (and heavy presence on AMS/CDG, which offer many of the same connections). ATL does not have a great variety of foreign carriers due to the DL presence, and it isn't exactly a tourism hub (nor does it have significant demand to the Middle East, India, or Africa to warrant further connecting options).
 
SCQ83
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):
The UAE embassy website says that you can enter their country with a stamp from Israel. But since you cannot enter with an Israeli passport as that region refuses to recognise the state of Israel, flights between countries is a non starter.

You can fly through DXB/AUH with an Israeli passport. Transiting is a different thing that entering a country. You can transit many countries (most of them) without any kind of visa since you are not technically entering the country.

In the case of Emirates there would be an additional issue (if they wouldn't allow Israeli-passport holders as you state) that would be the Qantas partnership. Imagine you buy a LHR-DXB-SYD fully operated by Qantas and you are not allowed to fly or even worse, you are advised in Qantas.com that you are not allowed to buy that ticket having an Israeli passport. For an Australian-based company, that would be a law-suit and blatant discrimination.

Business is business and politics is politics.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:31 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 15):
Although it may look as though there is a lot of O&D demand out of ATL because of DL, the reality is that there is likely very little demand to/from the city itself, thereby making it undesirable as a destination.

There's enough traffic to areas onward from ATL-DXB for it to work.

From 2007 (when ATL-DXB began) to 2011 DL stimulated the market to 40 PDEW so its not the smallest market in terms of O+D.
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lightsaber
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:41 pm

Wow people are being overly political on TLV. EK would love to fly to Israel (multiple destinations). However, they would then lose the right to fly in Saudi airspace (including to numerous Saudi destinations). So they have simply made an economic decision. (IIRC Saudi is #3 or #4 for O&D demand for EK.)

There would also need to be a bilateral.

Quoting GE9X (Reply 1):
Are you serious? Pigs will fly before the Arabs ever fly to Israel willingly.

EK is for profit. But Saudi would cut them off and that would cost EK *far* more than any profit to TLV.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 19):

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):

Last time I had to fly to the UAE (for work), the immigration officer checked all pages of my passport if I had an Israeli stamp in it.
If you have been to Israel, there is no entering the UAE.

This simply is not true anymore (at least in the last few years) and the UAE embassy website says as much. At this point it is internet rumor and nothing more.

  

   The Dubai diamond business would fall apart without the assistance of those who regularly fly to Israel. They're done pissing offing potential customers.


As to BER, it is as others noted. Which German city would be dropped to added TXL or BER? EK is at the bilateral air service agreement cap and Germany is unlikely (to say the least) to expand rights. Stuttgart is also on EK's wish list (ahead of TXL in my opinion), but isn't likely to happen.


Lightsaber

Quoting rwsea (Reply 19):
ATL could happen although its covered well with DL's service to DXB (and heavy presence on AMS/CDG, which offer many of the same connections). ATL does not have a great variety of foreign carriers due to the DL presence, and it isn't exactly a tourism hub (nor does it have significant demand to the Middle East, India, or Africa to warrant further connecting options).
Quoting rwsea (Reply 19):
ATL could happen although its covered well with DL's service to DXB (and heavy presence on AMS/CDG, which offer many of the same connections). ATL does not have a great variety of foreign carriers due to the DL presence, and it isn't exactly a tourism hub (nor does it have significant demand to the Middle East, India, or Africa to warrant further connecting options).

Well said.

But I would note that DL's Africa network eliminates some of the demand from ATL (even if it is connecting via JFK). Last I looked, ATL was at 30% O&D. So it punches 'above its weight.' I see DTW and MIA as the last EK destinations in the USA. From then on, I expect EK to focus on further South in the Americas (unless somehow Canada has a change in opinion... A change I would bet against.) Other than that, EK would need smaller (lower cost per flight) aircraft. But where? PHL is already served by QR. CLT will, IMHO, see QR's A359 (thanks to others for the correction that their 788s lack a crew rest for flights to the USA).

We should be discussing on GNP for a metropolitan area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP

So that leaves MIA, ATL, DTW, SAN, SJC, MSP, DEN, BWI, and PDX as the only possible contenders. The last two I think won't sustain the service. SAN would require new equipment be purchased due to runway limitations. Even then, it would take a *very* special 788 to do the mission IMHO (not worth it). SJC is best served with frequency via SFO. MSP... That would be tough. So that leaves MIA, ATL, DTW, and possibly (but unlikely) DEN for future growth. I put ATL and DEN far at the bottom of the list.

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ua900
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:49 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
Simple question, why doesn't EK fly to Tel Aviv, Berlin, and Atlanta? I would think those three destinations would be very successful for EK.

Why they don't fly to TLV should be obvious... TXL is already a EY hub  through EY Regional carrier AB and had there been another similar sized carrier for EK, they too could fly there... Perhaps LO if they come up for sale? Moreover, Berlin is poor compared to other target cities mentioned on this thread, STR for example would make more sense for connecting traffic...

ATL is the most likely future destination out of three places you mention.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 9):
Who says an airline must be given unlimited rights ? UAE isn't "protectionist" because their home market is so tiny there's nothing to draw from for foreign carriers.

UAE has what to DE? 49 weekly frequencies? that's like 7 dailies ? and how many of those seats are true O&D? 5%? 10%?

   More like 2% and dropping as frequencies increase.


Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
As for the others ... Berlin is out for the moment, because poor, defenceless little Lufty went crying to Mama Merkel, to protect them against the evil crusaders from the east. Short sighted protectionism on Germany's part and Berlin loses; is LH going to fly TXL/BER-DXB? No sign of it.

IMO Berlin is out because it is poor, not because of poor LH. And without BER going live and/or TXL expanding, there's no room to support LH starting long-haul operations from Berlin anyway. I could see 4U / Worldwings do a route like BER-AUH once BER has been completed around 2025...
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VC10er
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:51 pm

I don't think that I will ever forget the comparison of chi fil a ...and the Israel- Arab conflict!!!
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aklrno
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:56 pm

Quoting GE9X (Reply 1):
Are you serious? Pigs will fly before the Arabs ever fly to Israel willingly

You could also turn this around. The Arabs will fly to Tel Aviv before pigs fly on their airlines.
 
S75752
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:09 am

ATL: Low O&D, eaten up by DL anyways. EK wouldn't stand much of a chance without a partner there.
 
Thomaas
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:37 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
TXL: What LH wants is what LH gets in Germany - in this case, extremely restrictive bilaterals that strongly favor German airlines.

UAE airlines are allowed to fly unlimited frequencies from as much as 4 German airports, I don't see how that favours local airlines. The O&D between Germany and the UAE could maybe fill a single daily flight if not less, EK is very lucky with the rights they have.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:03 am

Quoting aklrno (Reply 25):
You could also turn this around. The Arabs will fly to Tel Aviv before pigs fly on their airlines

Actually this raises an interesting question I think. Do the Cargo divisions of Arabic carriers such as Saudia Cargo, Emirates SkyCargo, Etihad Cargo, etc carry Pigs as Cargo?
 
ChinaClipper40
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:11 am

Quoting GE9X (Reply 1):
Good luck entering Saudi Arabia, Qatar, even the UAE, with an Israeli stamp on your passport.
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
If you have been to Israel, there is no entering the UAE.
Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):
But since you cannot enter with an Israeli passport as that region refuses to recognise the state of Israel

Sorry. These are simply pernicious internet myths. How do I know? From personal experience. I've got multiple Israeli stamps in my passport, plus a full-page Israeli visa in my passport allowing multiple entries for two years. None of that has affected my ability to enter the UAE, nor delayed my passage through UAE immigration at Dubai by so much as a nanosecond. In fact, I've got UAE entry and exit stamps on the same page in my passport as Israeli entry and exit stamps. Furthermore, I have Israeli colleagues who routinely travel to Amman for the explicit purpose of flying Emirates to India, Thailand, southeast Asia, east Asia, and Australia. And the same thing holds for Etihad and Qatar Airways. There is enough enmity and distrust between Israel and the Muslim world without adding blatant falsehoods about the ME3 airlines into the bargain.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:18 am

Dos Israel even stamp? When I wnt they just give you a printed ticket.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 29):
There is enough enmity and distrust between Israel and the Muslim world without adding blatant falsehoods about the ME3 airlines into the bargain.

Thank you for details on your experience and I agree 100% with this statement.

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LAXtoATL
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:27 am

I could see EK operating to ATL.
However, There is not enough demand to sustain two carriers and DL would have the advantage because of their hub. Before anybody says yeah but EK has the same hub on the other end...
Remember DL is consolidating all US in/out to Dubai (and further via OAL connections).
EK would be consolidating all Asia/Africa/Middle East to Atlanta only. They would virtually no onward connections without DL. So, what I could see happening is DL & EK code-sharing this route with EK metal handling the TATL portion. Could work well for both carriers.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:17 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
If you have been to Israel, there is no entering the UAE.

It's on the UAE website, clearly they don't want to address but know they have to as it is a one word answer on the FAQ.

I would think EK would be ok with flying Israelis but it is not up to them. I don't know about entering the UAE. I would think that this is detrimental to the expo business.
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:26 am

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 32):
So, what I could see happening is DL & EK code-sharing this route with EK metal handling the TATL portion. Could work well for both carriers.

What reason would DL have to agree to that? They've been doing just fine primarily on their own.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:29 am

BA flies LHR-DEN, and I know DEN gets BA connections in DEN on that flight, and BA gets UA connections in LHR. So it could be similar to that with ATL-DXB on EK.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:02 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 28):

Actually this raises an interesting question I think. Do the Cargo divisions of Arabic carriers such as Saudia Cargo, Emirates SkyCargo, Etihad Cargo, etc carry Pigs as Cargo?

Good question. I checked my Memory and the result is that I cannot remember ever having handled or had knowledge about pigs that fly (as air cargo). We had discussions here about Service animals but I doubt that SArab countries would accept that as well.
The answer is a cautious NO.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
TXL: What LH wants is what LH gets in Germany - in this case, extremely restrictive bilaterals that strongly favor German airlines

EK has extremely generous traffic rights in Germany, with 4 cities that strategically cover all Areas of the Country, allowing unrestricted flights and seats per day.
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jasoncrh
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:51 am

Why on earth would they do that? DL fills up a plane on its own and keeps all the revenue.
The way code shares work usually is that the operating carrier keeps 90-95% of the revenue, and the codeshare partner only keeps maybe 10% of the revenue. Why would Delta want to give that up? Please advise.

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 32):
I could see EK operating to ATL.
However, There is not enough demand to sustain two carriers and DL would have the advantage because of their hub. Before anybody says yeah but EK has the same hub on the other end...
Remember DL is consolidating all US in/out to Dubai (and further via OAL connections).
EK would be consolidating all Asia/Africa/Middle East to Atlanta only. They would virtually no onward connections without DL. So, what I could see happening is DL & EK code-sharing this route with EK metal handling the TATL portion. Could work well for both carriers.
 
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:14 am

Quoting GE9X (Reply 1):
Good luck entering Saudi Arabia, Qatar, even the UAE, with an Israeli stamp on your passport.

No problems entering Qatar and the UAE with a stamp from Ben Gurion in your passport. Saudi can be a problem, depending on circumstances. If you, for instance, is operating as crew on a freighter carrying 35 tons of Saudi Riyals, the Saudi immigration officers will happily stamp your passport.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
If you have been to Israel, there is no entering the UAE.

Incorrect. I've entered the UAE via both Dubai and AD with several Israeli stamps in my passport on numerous occasions. Never been questioned or had any issues.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
TXL: What LH wants is what LH gets in Germany - in this case, extremely restrictive bilaterals that strongly favor German airlines.

Incorrect. The bilateral as originally drafted heavily favored the ME airlines of the day. It's just that back then GF was the big dog, and EK was just starting to take off. Now that EK and EY have grown, they want more. Well, tough sh1t sunshine, there's a bilateral in place, one which you were very happy about once. The German government is quite right in sticking with the deal they have, one that's fair to both parties. EK are free to operate to TXL, they just have to drop another city - the bilateral allows each country to send it's airlines off to 4 cities of the other. The UAE only has 4 destinations to offer, it's hardly the Germans fault they've got more than 4 cities with an airport!
Signature. You just read one.
 
UAEflyer
Posts: 1282
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:29 pm

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:32 am

EK would fly anywhere in the world if there is opportunity to do so, as for TLV I think the Israelis authority would never allow them to fly there, first of all protecting Israel airlines, second thing the tough regulations in TLV
As for Berlin, Tim Clark said more than once that he will fly the next day if got daily permission.
Atlanta is a scary place for EK, the largest airport + biggest airline in the world DL, EK strategy not to withdraw from any US airport but keep growing

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 28):

Yes EK transfer pigs to DXB, as the country have a lot of foreigners. I think Israeli airlines do not.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:41 am

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 39):

As for Berlin, Tim Clark said more than once that he will fly the next day if got daily permission.
Atlanta is a scary

He can, he just have to give up HAM and Switch to TXL.

So ATL is scary but Germany, home of the biggest Airline Group until DL merged with NW is not? Good one.
 
Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 39):
Yes EK transfer pigs to DXB, as the country have a lot of foreigners. I think Israeli airlines do not.

I doubt that pigs are flown as live animals. They are just not worth the Money, for breeding only special races like the Bentheimer qualify and for growing "Pata Negra" in the UAE has no oak woods.
.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
UA444
Posts: 3027
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RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:20 am

Doesn't DTW have a huge Arab population? I would think that makes more sense than ATL. Wasn't QR or Ethiad interested in serving it?
 
ChinaClipper40
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:23 am

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:39 am

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 30):
Dos Israel even stamp? When I wnt they just give you a printed ticket.

This is correct. If one requests it, Israeli immigration officers will place the entry and exit stamps on a separate piece of paper that can later be simply discarded, leaving no evidence of Israeli entry and exit in one's passport. Sometimes Israeli immigration officers will do this - almost reflexively - even if not requested. But, as noted above by myself and several others, this dodge is not necessary for entering the UAE or Qatar, or even staying for periods of time in those countries (e.g., for business, tourism, conference attendance, etc). The UAE's constitution and laws accord equal protection of the laws to people of all faiths (including Judaism) or no faith at all. All that is requested is that visitors not do or say things that are disrespectful of Islam. Which, after all, is only common courtesy and decency when visiting a country with a strong foundational Islamic basis.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 13757
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 41):
Doesn't DTW have a huge Arab population?

Yes, but they're mostly Lebanese and Jordanians (also Albanians, though obviously not Arabs)..... all of which involve a hefty backtrack if transiting via DXB, vs Europe.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:55 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 20):
In the case of Emirates there would be an additional issue (if they wouldn't allow Israeli-passport holders as you state) that would be the Qantas partnership. Imagine you buy a LHR-DXB-SYD fully operated by Qantas and you are not allowed to fly or even worse, you are advised in Qantas.com that you are not allowed to buy that ticket having an Israeli passport. For an Australian-based company, that would be a law-suit and blatant discrimination.

I doubt that there would be any lawsuit against QF, since QF will quite happily sell SYD-LHR tickets to Israeli citizens routed on to Oneworld partners at HKG or SIN but starting off on QF metal.
And discriminating against people with a particular passport isn't religious or racial discrimination, it is political discrimination, which isn't illegal. Not all the citizens of the state of Israel are Jewish, by any means, and not all the people in the world who are Jewish travel on Israeli passports or regard themselves as Israeli citizens.
Airlines are obliged to follow the rules laid down by the countries whose airports they use - "force majeure" covers it.
Other countries impose transit restrictions on particular nationalities and require transit visas even if they stay airside, and that's before you even get to the USA with no concept of international transit at all. These rules are enforced primarily by airlines denying boarding to anyone who doesn't have the correct immigration status for the countries they are flying to or connecting in.
 
LH422
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:21 pm

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:57 am

Quoting david_itl (Reply 2):
Can't operate there without dropping another German city

And that city would have to be HAM, since FRA, MUC and DUS are served by EY.
 
hohd
Posts: 990
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:11 pm

ATL: This would work for EK, there is demand for points beyond DXB (especially India), which is the traffic that EK is looking for. QR may start ATL too. EK does not care about traffic beyond ATL.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2799
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:17 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 28):
Actually this raises an interesting question I think. Do the Cargo divisions of Arabic carriers such as Saudia Cargo, Emirates SkyCargo, Etihad Cargo, etc carry Pigs as Cargo?

SV will not carry pig or pork products. Not sure about EK and EY, but QR holds the monopoly on import and distribution of pork in Qatar; you do the math.
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windshear
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:28 pm

The Arab States do not recognize Israel therefore there is no airspace agreement

Boaz
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
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STT757
Posts: 14284
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Why No Emirates To Tel Aviv, Berlin, & Atlanta?

Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:31 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
Simple question, why doesn't EK fly to Tel Aviv,

Same reason as there are no "scheduled" nonstops to Cuba from Miami (politics).
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