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What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:11 am

Please continue this discussion here.

What's Going On In CLE - Part 7 (by American 767 Sep 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:19 am

Another reason that Cleveland civic parties should "buy" a TATL route: Datatrack, a growing local software company, just announced a big lease of office space in Chicago, where future growth doubling the company's size is planned to take place (and the headquarters will move?) because of "ease of global access".
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:06 pm

^"ease of global access' is a likely criterion of many big firms, and the civic parties in Cleveland likely know this, but unfortunately they seem unwilling or otherwise unable to do this. Instead they rallied together to say businesspeople should pay $300 more for a flight to fly UA than on another carrier, rather than pool such money (by asking companies for a contribution) to put together some kind of route subsidy. (To boot, they asked people to pay more while companies were struggling during the recession---so that's the kind of wisdom we're faced with unfortunately...)
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 2):
ease of global access' is a likely criterion of many big firms, and the civic parties in Cleveland likely know this, but unfortunately they seem unwilling or otherwise unable to do this. Instead they rallied together to say businesspeople should pay $300 more for a flight to fly UA than on another carrier, rather than pool such money (by asking companies for a contribution) to put together some kind of route subsidy.

True and those days are over I hope for throwing money at UA. So other than some F9 on/off stuff for the most part, coming soon NK adds, and a less than handful of additions collectively by other carriers, that can all be publicized as coming to the rescue after severe reductions, and were simply bound to happen anyway, like in PIT after US, what up "Development Team"?
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:54 pm

Last night there was a very early AM CLE-HOU Delta A319. I didn't catch the inbound flight. I'm assuming it had to do with tomorrow's football game; but a 319? Or was that just the equipment plane? Anybody know?
 
chrisjake
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
Last night there was a very early AM CLE-HOU Delta A319. I didn't catch the inbound flight. I'm assuming it had to do with tomorrow's football game; but a 319? Or was that just the equipment plane? Anybody know?

The inbound flight was DAL8924 from BOS carrying the Cavs back home. It arrived at 0122 and I'm only assuming it left an hour later to HOU for a reposition. The Texans are on a UAL 753 coming to CLE.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:40 pm

CLE has a new issue of their magazine available at:

http://www.glpublishing.com/digitale...ons/goingplacesfall2014/index.html

Ricky Smith, talking about a marketing campaign, said, "We're going after our battleground markets in places like Akron, Pittsburgh, and Manchester."

Ok, I get the first two cities, but Manchester??? There is no Manchester (OH, MI, IN, or PA) anywhere near CLE's marketing area. Does he mean Massillon? Mansfield?

[Edited 2014-11-19 08:51:42]
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
Ok, I get the first two cities, but Manchester??? There is no Manchester (OH, MI, IN, or PA) anywhere near CLE's marketing area. Does he mean Massillon? Mansfield?

Perhaps?

Manchester Local School District
6075 Manchester Rd.
Akron, OH 44319
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:18 am

http://www.clevelandairport.com/geta...s-Management-Services-RFP.pdf.aspx

CLE is soliciting a new operator for the common use facilities, with final bids due by December 19th. The RFP covers gates A-2, A-5, A-9, A-11, A-14, B3, and B7. This schedule might support having someone in place by the time Spirit ramps up to its initially announced size (six dailies) in April.

Spirit gets the B gates and Frontier a couple of the A's?
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:48 pm

JetBlue ... almost good news. At yesterday's investor's day conference, JetBlue announced they are "looking into" CLE-BOS, as well as MSP and CMH-BOS.



Note: I listened to a webcast of the conference and didn't hear this said, but an attendee at the conference assured me the report is correct.


[Edited 2014-11-20 07:54:01]
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:11 pm

Didnt jetBlue already fly and drop CMH-BOS?
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:33 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):
Didnt jetBlue already fly and drop CMH-BOS?

Yes, so who knows....but great that MasseyBrown has shown evidence that CLE seems to be on their radar
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:39 pm

Regarding that RFP (above) for the common use gates, how are these gates operated now? By whomever is using them?

Re B6 and CLE-BOS, is it worth it to open a station (CLE) with only one destination (BOS)? Does B6 have other stations with only one destination? Would it be more likely that if JetBlue entered CLE, they'd do BOS and FLL instead of only BOS?
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):
Didnt jetBlue already fly and drop CMH-BOS?

If they are reconsidering CMH, it may be a result of improved performance from their E190 fleet. There was a lengthy discussion during the call about the E190, which JetBlue had previously been unhappy with. They have improved its reliability and found that it performs best on 400-700 mile routes. (CLE-BOS is 489nm.) It sounds as if the 190 will be coming off longer routes as A321s are delivered in the first half of 2015 and will become available for more regional flying out of BOS. So if CLE is approved, service could begin with the spring or summer schedules.

PIT began with only E190s to BOS. This winter PIT is getting an A320 to FLL. So there's precedent for starting slowly

[Edited 2014-11-20 09:50:54]
 
lakeeffect
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:16 pm

I believe that JetBlue flies to only BOS from DTW, which is a relatively new market add for them. So the precedent is definitely there to start with only one destination.

I'm really surprised that with all the new LCC, ULCC, and legacy routes added since the de-hub, that BOS hasn't been added yet. At this point, I think one of CLE's best shots at getting more service to New England would be if F9 adds a new station out there.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):
Didnt jetBlue already fly and drop CMH-BOS?

I thought they only flew JFK....calling FlyCMH!
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:30 pm

Suddenly, a new contract for operating all the common use gates makes a lot of sense if both Spirit and JetBlue will be starting up service. It would be much more efficient for a contractor to man up to handle 20 daily flights (all three new airlines) instead of separate contracts with each airline.

Edit: It would also make it cheaper and less disruptive for the individual airlines to add or drop a flight without putting the contractor through the frantic manpower perturbations if he was working on a smaller base.

[Edited 2014-11-20 13:41:20]
 
steeler83
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:52 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 12):
Re B6 and CLE-BOS, is it worth it to open a station (CLE) with only one destination (BOS)? Does B6 have other stations with only one destination? Would it be more likely that if JetBlue entered CLE, they'd do BOS and FLL instead of only BOS?
Quoting greenair727 (Reply 12):
Re B6 and CLE-BOS, is it worth it to open a station (CLE) with only one destination (BOS)? Does B6 have other stations with only one destination? Would it be more likely that if JetBlue entered CLE, they'd do BOS and FLL instead of only BOS?
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
If they are reconsidering CMH, it may be a result of improved performance from their E190 fleet. There was a lengthy discussion during the call about the E190, which JetBlue had previously been unhappy with. They have improved its reliability and found that it performs best on 400-700 mile routes. (CLE-BOS is 489nm.) It sounds as if the 190 will be coming off longer routes as A321s are delivered in the first half of 2015 and will become available for more regional flying out of BOS. So if CLE is approved, service could begin with the spring or summer schedules.

PIT began with only E190s to BOS. This winter PIT is getting an A320 to FLL. So there's precedent for starting slowly

Actually, PIT began with JFK and BOS service back in June 2006, and I believe JFK was dropped within the last couple of years or so. It was initiated with I believe 3x or 4x daily, which was eventually dropped to twice daily before being axed due to poor performance. JFK wasn't a very high O&D airport for PIT-NYC travelers, and it made for lousy connections as well. B6 serves PIT-BOS twice daily I believe.

Regarding B6 launching new cities with only one destination, I believe their PHL service fits this; they serve only BOS from there. I wonder how they're doing on that route. I'm sure US/AA isn't exactly making things easy for them!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
rtalk25
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:03 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 17):
B6 serves PIT-BOS twice daily I believe.

B6 has three daily flights on PIT-BOS.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 17):
Regarding B6 launching new cities with only one destination, I believe their PHL service fits this; they serve only BOS from there. I wonder how they're doing on that route. I'm sure US/AA isn't exactly making things easy for them!

Yes, PHL and BWI also. However, B6 offers some connections via BOS from PHL. I'd think from CLE it'd be more out of the way making a connection via BOS to go West. e.g. PHL-BOS-SEA is probably more acceptable than CLE-BOS-SEA.
 
rtalk25
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:57 pm

I noticed that WN BWI-CLE WGAs are being discounted many days to just $53 one-way in January and first two weeks of February. There is no discounting on BWI-PIT, BWI-BUF or other short haul BWI flights on those days.

I know loads are weaker during that time for all business routes, but is this an advertised sale currently? I'd get em as this might be a short promotion.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:45 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 18):
. I'd think from CLE it'd be more out of the way making a connection via BOS to go West.

More likely JetBlue is counting CLE-BOS-Europe/MiddleEast connections via partner airlines in their calculations.
 
lakeeffect
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:43 pm

Just heard a blurb that F9 is going to go daily from CLE to SEA, RDU, and DFW beginning on April 30th. Any confirmation to this?
 
lakeeffect
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:04 pm

Here's what the latest schedule extension from F9 looks like at CLE in May. Yes, SEA does indeed go daily at the end of April. These are weekly departures. F9 seems to have peaked at about 70 weekly departures from CLE, is this due to gate availability? CUN and PUJ are likely in conjunction with Apple, so that leaves just TPA with a less than daily schedule for the summer season. PHX goes seasonal and is replaced by SEA. IAD, ORD, and TTN do not reappear. If the past 6 months have told us anything, come May, the list below will be completely different:

8x DEN
7x ATL
7x DFW
7x FLL
7x LAS
7x MCO
7x RDU
7x SEA
6x RSW
4x TPA
2x CUN
1x PUJ
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 22):
Here's what the latest schedule extension from F9 looks like at CLE in May.

I'd like to see them operate flights like RDU-CLE-SEA, but, as the load factor data from knope2001 point out in the F9 thread, there really isn't any room on most of the CLE flights for the additional through traffic.
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:20 pm

Any chance that F9 will take a big leap and cross the Atlantic? Image CLE-FRA, -LHR, and -CDG. With CUN and PUJ there is precedence for int'l routes.
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 24):
Any chance that F9 will take a big leap and cross the Atlantic? Image CLE-FRA, -LHR, and -CDG.

LOL seriously, let's get them to keep a route for more than 2 months first before we even think about entertaining that fantasy.

It always amazes me to see the level of far-reaching imagination that comes across in the CLE threads. The airport just lost a massive number of flights, can't even seem to support the likes of CLE-STL, and yet someone's always dreaming of some airline going WAY outside their business model and using *Cleveland* as the springboard. If F9 were EVER to get into long-haul transcontinental service, something that is entirely unlikely, they certainly wouldn't start with Cleveland. CUN, a major low-cost leisure destination, is NOT a "precedent for int'l routes," as it has nothing whatsoever in common with FRA/LHR/CDG apart from technically being in another country.
 
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mariner
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:35 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 22):
F9 seems to have peaked at about 70 weekly departures from CLE, is this due to gate availability?

I think it's aircraft availability as much as anything. The fleet is still constrained and is working hard, reaching 13 hours a day by Christmas.

CLE presently has 4 aircraft (schedule) assigned to it. The booking extension does not allow for any un-announced routes and given the remarkable strength of CLE-SEA, I wouldn't fall over in shock to see CLE-PDX, for example, if only for the summer. But any new route would require a 5th aircraft at CLE and I don't know if they have enough metal for that, at least in the short term.

There is another A320 arriving in March, but that may be already pencilled in for elsewhere - or maybe CLE.

mariner
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
CLE presently has 4 aircraft (schedule) assigned to it.

It looks as if Frontier wasn't too happy with the results of their eastern-US short-haul flying. Even with full planes they may not be able to charge enough to make it worthwhile; although I think they probably underpriced their product. Maybe they'll try it again in the future as they add equipment.

The preponderance of dailies in the new schedule is positive.
 
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mariner
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 27):
It looks as if Frontier wasn't too happy with the results of their eastern-US short-haul flying. Even with full planes they may not be able to charge enough to make it worthwhile; although I think they probably underpriced their product. Maybe they'll try it again in the future as they add equipment.

Maybe, although I see CLE-RDU is coming back as daily and it isn't a "long"route.

I'm very, very reluctant to come to any conclusions about anything just based on the booking extension. I know that people tend to see it as definitive, but that isn't always the case. As above, the fleet situation is still in flexible, for example.

The booking extension is just the first indication of the summer schedule - it is usually a long way from being the last.

mariner
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lakeeffect
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:27 pm

The F9 schedule extension really hurts connections in Denver, perhaps by design. It looks like many frequencies were dropped and many destinations aren't returning in Denver. The daily CLE-DEN flight arrives at 8:30pm and the return is at 10:50am. That really only allows for 2 viable connections in DEN, SAN and SNA. So while last summer, you could count on F9 keeping fares down to many west coast cities with a connection, F9 won't be much of a player outside of the DEN, SEA, and LAS nonstops from CLE. It looks like F9 is going for strictly O&D from CLE, which makes sense from the new ULCC model.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:56 pm

UPS has recently begun operating a 752 CLE-RFD. It's probably a Christmas seasonal bump, although total CLE freight is up 4% for the twelve months ending August, a rate that has been creeping upward all year.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
Maybe, although I see CLE-RDU is coming back as daily and it isn't a "long"route.

One route, but ORD, LGA, IAD, and TTN are presumably gone.

Personal opinion: Frontier underprices their short-haul flying - they can and should charge more for it.

A former CO employee told me CLE-LGA costs about 35 cents a seat mile to operate using a 50-seater. Doesn't make much sense to sell the ticket for 40, even if Frontier's costs are lower than UA's. (F9 fare $142/364nm= about 40 cents)
 
rtalk25
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:16 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 31):
Personal opinion: Frontier underprices their short-haul flying - they can and should charge more for it.

Southwest is also low pricing CAK-LGA during the Winter with WGA fares starting at $67. I noted that CLE-BWI fares are in the $50-60 range in January. Mostly, Southwest charges $80-90 for short-hauls in the East (majority out of BWI) so a couple of short-haul CLE/CAK routes are being discounted relative to other routes even on Southwest. Perhaps Frontier sees that as not positive and it was the reason for the reallocation of the LGA slot pair.

UA does weekend specials, and many weeks on CLE-EWR for $168 r/t. That's a good value at ULCC like fares, so that might grab pax that might otherwise fly F9 on a short-haul.

This week because of the holidays, fewer routes are offered and not CLE-EWR, but EWR-CMH is offered:
https://www.united.com/WEB/en-US/apps/booking/specials/default.aspx

In F9's network, I think UST is underused and think CLE and ORD would be logical seasonal additions to UST.

IAD-UST didn't pan as well, but there is a lot of competition on WAS-JAX from Southwest and JetBlue already. Chicago fares to Florida tend to be higher, and CLE has no direct JAX area flight and St. Augustine should have the destinational appeal around the Spring/Summer for both CLE and ORD focuses.
 
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mariner
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 31):
Personal opinion: Frontier underprices their short-haul flying - they can and should charge more for it.

Well, maybe, but even at your suggested too low fares they had some trouble filling TTN-CLE - in August, say, which should be a very strong month.

As in the Knope2001 stats that you posted in the other thread, TTN-CLE only reached 76.8% load factor in August, while CLE-ATL and CLE-RDU were both over 90%.

mariner

[Edited 2014-11-25 11:43:33]
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flyCMH
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:07 am

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 15):
Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):Didnt jetBlue already fly and drop CMH-BOS?

I thought they only flew JFK....calling FlyCMH!

That's an affirm, B6 flew CMH-BOS 1x daily alongside CMH-JFK 3x daily. It was an oddly-timed departure; something like 1100-1130.

I flew in/out of CLE over the weekend. First time ever renting a car from the airport. I have to say, the consolidated rental car facility is silly. There was really no available land anywhere closer to the terminal? And there are no gas stations anywhere nearby. On the plus side, I guess it encourages people to take the Rapid.

I can't recall if it was posted earlier, but the Saul Bass-inspired Frontier signage is up at the counters and gates. Overall, the terminal was hopping this afternoon. Great to see all the mainline activity as well; only 50-seaters were UAX to LGA, DCA, and BOS. Panini's and Great Lakes are still awesome.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:19 pm

AA (not counting the US half of their schedule) is adding a nice bit of capacity in the latest version of their April schedule. CLE-ORD goes to 7 flights, all CR7/E75s and DFW is 4 MD-83s, a significant boost over last summer's 3 319s/1 CR7.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 34):
I flew in/out of CLE over the weekend. First time ever renting a car from the airport. I have to say, the consolidated rental car facility is silly. There was really no available land anywhere closer to the terminal? And there are no gas stations anywhere nearby.

The off-site car rental facility is compliments of CO/UA in the form of their abandoned concourse D. Like you, my issues with the facility include the lack of nearby gas stations as well as small/poor signage.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:16 pm

If the online schedule is right, UA is discontinuing all CLE-STL service from Dec 20 to Jan 6 - the only non-stop service in the market. This is is the downside of deregulation.

There is no sense of public utility left whatsoever in the airline industry. I know many people feel that's as it should be; but it's serving the public interest that supposedly 'earns' federal support for airlines. With service like UA's, no wonder the FAA has a hard time mustering consistent congressional support for NextGen, etc.

Ok, sorry for the rant.

[Edited 2014-11-29 10:19:49]
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:24 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 37):
If the online schedule is right, UA is discontinuing all CLE-STL service from Dec 20 to Jan 6 - the only non-stop service in the market. This is is the downside of deregulation. There is no sense of public utility left whatsoever in the airline industry. I know many people feel that's as it should be; but it's serving the public interest that supposedly 'earns' federal support for airlines. With service like UA's, no wonder the FAA has a hard time mustering consistent congressional support for NextGen, etc. Ok, sorry for the rant.

Totally agree and the only people that probably think it is as it should be are in locations that are overserved in the form of megahubs and those in smaller markets that have at least sustained steady service or flight levels similar to what they had 40-50 years ago, even if the destinations have changed to hubs only.
 
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atypical
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:27 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
Another reason that Cleveland civic parties should "buy" a TATL route: Datatrack, a growing local software company, just announced a big lease of office space in Chicago, where future growth doubling the company's size is planned to take place (and the headquarters will move?) because of "ease of global access".

I think you mean Datatrak out of Mayfield Heights, OH. If so it is a company that in 2013 had 68 employees, lost $130,000, and has a market cap of $10.7 Mil. This is not a company that you want to use as an example TATL. There are far larger and more important companies that do that for Cleveland. I think BA could make a case for daily service with at least a ETOPS 757 and possibly a 767.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:58 pm

Quoting atypical (Reply 39):
This is not a company that you want to use as an example

I think Datatrak got new financing and plan to grow, but NOT in Cleveland - whether they're successful is irrelevant to their comment that the growth will be in Chicago because of the "ease of global access".

The availability of international service, while not the sole decision driver on location, is an important factor and in CLE's case a negative one for now.
 
ncflyer
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:32 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 37):
the online schedule is right, UA is discontinuing all CLE-STL service from Dec 20 to Jan 6 - the only non-stop service in the market. This is is the downside of deregulation.

I've just been assuming CLE is living on borrowed time as far as no hub UA flying is concerned anyway, stl, dfw, MKE, maybe even florida, I'd be willing to bet a decent chunk of change these flights will be memphised over the coming year or two. One day UA will find a place to put those flying assets that they will deem to be more profitable. My only debate is whether uA cedes BOS to JetBlue one day and LGA to DL. dca to AA.
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:26 am

^I agree that UA has made some poor decisions lately, including their CLE ones, but I think they have a limit. CLE is the 20th or so largest market in the US--it would make no sense for UA to drop additional routes, only to feed them to their competition.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 41):
My only debate is whether uA cedes.... dca to AA.

Im hoping UA cedes LAX to AA.      
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:05 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 41):
I've just been assuming CLE is living on borrowed time as far as no hub UA flying is concerned anyway,

You are probably right over time - I just feel UA has a public responsibility to provide a reasonable level of service on their remaining monopoly routes. DFW, for example, is also being cut, but two other airlines also fly that route. MKE is being reduced to one flight a day and that's ok, too. In the case of STL, they are simply stiffing about 132 pax a day for over two weeks.
 
flight152
Posts: 3413
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 44):
DFW, for example, is also being cut,

For whatever reason DFW and STL both return mid January and MKE is still 3 daily flights M-F.
 
LifetimeGS
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:29 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:51 am

UA dropping DFW, RSW, TPA, and FLL.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5384
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:15 am

Quoting flight152 (Reply 45):
For whatever reason DFW and STL both return mid January and MKE is still 3 daily flights M-F.

From UA's .pdf weekly timetable:
MILWAUKEE, WI (MKE) 327 mi
6:48A 7:18A 4140 ERJ 0 1h30m ----WTF|--MTWTF|--MTW--|-------
6:48A 7:18A 4735 ERJ 0 1h30m SSMT---|-------|-------|-------
12:25P 12:52P 4631 ERJ 0 1h27m -------|-------|-------|-S-----
2:50P 3:17P 4143 ERJ 0 1h27m ----WTF|-SMTWTF|-SMTW--|-------
2:55P 3:22P 4143 ERJ 0 1h27m -------|-------|-----TF|--MT-TF
2:56P 3:23P 4143 ERJ 0 1h27m -SMT---|-------|-------|-------
6:40P 7:07P 4631 ERJ 0 1h27m ----WTF|-SMTWTF|-SMTW--|-------
6:50P 7:17P 4306 ERJ 0 1h27m -SMT---|-------|-------|-------
6:50P 7:17P 4143 ERJ 0 1h27m S------|-------|-------|-------

It's hard to read with a.net's formatting, but it says that only the 2:55PM CLE-MKE flight operates after December 20. This single operation goes most days until the schedule is restored around January 8th.

My complaint is only with UA's STL flights, where they end *all* flying for 16 straight days and there is no competitor in the market. Their high fares have already reduced traffic to a business-only trickle and even the business flyers get stiffed over the holidays.
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:03 pm

According to cleveland.com, UA will drop DFW from March 5 and TPA, FLL and RSW from April 7.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...nited_airlines_dropping_dalla.html
 
N766UA
Posts: 8228
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 8

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:01 pm

So that leaves UAL with only 7 or 8 non-hub destinations left; I'm sure those will go soon too.

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