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chicago757
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United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:25 pm

United Airlines has announced it will reduce the number of flights out of Chicago O'Hare. The airline will now be creating "multiple rush-hours" throughout the day. However, they now will be servicing larger aircraft in place of frequent smaller aircraft. (Sounds like it used to be back in the day). Does anyone know if this is in reference to less regional jets upgraded to standard narrow-bodied aircraft (737, A319/ 320), or are they planning on throwing some wide-bodies on more domestic routes like the good 'ol days of flying had. If so, which routes and aircraft would serve (or probably serve) those routes. Any thoughts and feedback much appreciated. Take care!

Kevin
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LAXintl
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:34 pm

Its simply part of UA's announcement of rebanking hubs at Chicago, Denver, and Houston along with the long planned draw down of smaller regional aircraft. UA will end 2015 with 130 fewer RJs.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jetblue1965
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):


Its simply part of UA's announcement of rebanking hubs at Chicago, Denver, and Houston along with the long planned draw down of smaller regional aircraft. UA will end 2015 with 130 fewer RJs.

So how big is the frequency reduction ? I recall UA/ORD in the summer is like 650-670 departures ... would they fall to the low 600s or into the 500s ?
 
joeljack
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting chicago757 (Thread starter):
United Airlines has announced it will reduce the number of flights out of Chicago O'Hare. The airline will now be creating "multiple rush-hours" throughout the day. However, they now will be servicing larger aircraft in place of frequent smaller aircraft. (Sounds like it used to be back in the day). Does anyone know if this is in reference to less regional jets upgraded to standard narrow-bodied aircraft (737, A319/ 320), or are they planning on throwing some wide-bodies on more domestic routes like the good 'ol days of flying had. If so, which routes and aircraft would serve (or probably serve) those routes. Any thoughts and feedback much appreciated. Take care!

Kevin

Do you have a link to a press release on this? I just haven't seen it.

In March, OMA-ORD goes to 5x daily when it has been 7x daily for probably 10 years. No changes in gauge yet as the March schedule isn't finalized but I was wondering if this was going to happen. Currently, it sits at 1x or 2x daily mainline and the rest about a 50-50 mix of 50 seat vs 70 seat RJ's. Assuming with a reduction in frequency, it would stay at 1x or 2x mainline and the rest switch to the 76 seat E175's? Just a guess.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:46 pm

The Chicago Tribune carried this story a couple of days ago with more details:

United to use fewer but larger planes from O'Hare
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IAHWorldflyer
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:49 pm

Here's a link the OP might have seen in Tuesday's Chicago Tribune:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...112-biz-20141111-story.html#page=1
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:50 pm

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago

"1950 3,620,962 6.6%
1960 3,550,404 −1.9%
1970 3,366,957 −5.2%
1980 3,005,072 −10.7%
1990 2,783,726 −7.4%
2000 2,896,016 4.0%
2010 2,695,598 −6.9%"


That is not a good sign.

And while it is NOT talked about it on here often, Chicago has lost 200,000 people over the last decade and a million people since 1950.

While the Metro area that includes WI and IN has grown, the city itself is losing an alarming number of people.

This is the opposite trend of other large cities around the country where young people are returning to the cities after a generation of "White Flight."

Chicago is not the next Detroit, but Chicago has some issues. And O'Hare will reflect that. It is insulated because it is a GREAT location for connections. But I would expect to see more of this as population moves out of the city proper and closer to airports with other options or leaves the area altogether.


AA is also significantly smaller then their peak at ORD.
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):

Bummer, So I guess IAH will eventually become the Largest hub in UA's network again, if this is happening, maybe Houston could even nab HQ.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
UA will end 2015 with 130 fewer RJs.

It's inevitable that almost every station, except EWR, is going to see fewer flights with this stat. The rumor of possibly slowing the retirement of some 767s and sUA ETOP 757s will help somewhat but losing 130 planes is huge. The E175s will only make up for a small percentage of that loss.

On the positive side....with fewer flights, 2 additional gates at ORD and the new parallel runways at ORD, the on-time performance should spike as well as much faster recovery during thunderstorm/irrops at ORD during the summer months. AA doesn't seem to be putting much emphasis on ORD in the short-term either so it's not like this is any sign of retreat at ORD on UA's part.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:08 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):

And while it is NOT talked about it on here often, Chicago has lost 200,000 people over the last decade and a million people since 1950.

While the Metro area that includes WI and IN has grown, the city itself is losing an alarming number of people.

That's largely a case of the "white flight" phenomenon, but I don't see how that's relevant here.

ORD is still the 2nd largest airport by volume (and I think matches ATL by movements). It's also the single most crucial economic engine of the entire midwest region.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):

So how big is the frequency reduction ? I recall UA/ORD in the summer is like 650-670 departures ... would they fall to the low 600s or into the 500s ?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...112-biz-20141111-story.html#page=1

"While the number of United departures at O'Hare will drop up to 8 percent next year, larger planes will carry up to 10 percent more seats during some months, according to Jim Compton, United's chief revenue officer."
 
iowaman
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago

"1950 3,620,962 6.6%
1960 3,550,404 −1.9%
1970 3,366,957 −5.2%
1980 3,005,072 −10.7%
1990 2,783,726 −7.4%
2000 2,896,016 4.0%
2010 2,695,598 −6.9%"


That is not a good sign.

And while it is NOT talked about it on here often, Chicago has lost 200,000 people over the last decade and a million people since 1950.

The Chicago CSA went from 5.49 million in 1950 to 9.46 million in 2010 which is much more relevant than city of Chicago population. Those people will use airports like ORD and MDW to fly out, regardless of whether it is a good sign that city of Chicago is losing population.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_metropolitan_area
 
777ord
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:15 pm

UAL is going to continue to cut frequencies @ ORD. makes sense to not run unprofitable routes. Unfortunately, it will cause job losses and that's never good. Personally, throwing a few 777's ORD-SFO vs countless 320's is way more appealing to me.

AA will expand ORD.. just wait  . They already overtook UA @ LAX as the largest carrier.. and they are NOT stopping. Expect new routes from LAX announced soon.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:16 pm

Denver was rebanked in September, with Chicago changes being fully in place by March 2015.

The January 2015 schedule will see ORD have 8% less departures versus 2014, but gauge rises with average seats per departure up 10%.

Overall 2015 network plan has 3% less system departures, but 5% rise in seats per departure.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:18 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 7):
if this is happening, maybe Houston could even nab HQ.

As much as I would love to see that happen, I'd rather the Willis Tower be renamed to the United Tower. I believe UA is its largest tenant.
When wasn't America great?


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stlgph
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:20 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 7):
Bummer, So I guess IAH will eventually become the Largest hub in UA's network again, if this is happening, maybe Houston could even nab HQ.

Hardly.
For one, the office operation at the Willis (aka Sears Tower) is huge and after all the orchestration and dance of putting it together and make it work, why screw it up? The airline has bigger things to worry about right now.

For two, UAL got one hell of a sweetheart deal to come in there.

For three, the lease is there until 2028 and if they move out before hand, that's a hell of a sweetheart penalty on that sweetheart deal.
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777ord
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 15):
Hardly.
For one, the office operation at the Willis (aka Sears Tower) is huge and after all the orchestration and dance of putting it together and make it work, why screw it up? The airline has bigger things to worry about right now.

For two, UAL got one hell of a sweetheart deal to come in there.

For three, the lease is there until 2028 and if they move out before hand, that's a hell of a sweetheart penalty on that sweetheart deal.

Yup... a HQ in IAH would have been way less costly, but UA couldnt say no to almost free floor space in WHQ, next to nothing rent for 10 years and some tax cuts...

Smith street looks abandoned now in IAH  .
 
commavia
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 12):
AA will expand ORD.. just wait . They already overtook UA @ LAX as the largest carrier.. and they are NOT stopping. Expect new routes from LAX announced soon.

I agree - in general - that the rumors of the death of AA at ORD have been greatly exaggerated, but unlike LAX, I do not believe there is even the slightest realistic prospect that AA would ever grow larger than United at ORD by any measure. For as long as United exists, it will always be the market leader at ORD and in CHI metro.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:27 pm

UA is not moving its HQ to Houston.
Matter of fact UA might be uprooting the CO training center out of IAH as well soon.
Announcement of consolidated training facility is due this winter with competition down to 3 finalist cities.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

Interesting, who are the finalist cities, If IAH is one, they might still win it.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
ORDFlyer99
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:56 pm

Hi everyone!
This is my first post and I am excited to finally be a part of Airliners.net.
Something that I have read time and time again on this site is that Chicago is falling, and is becoming less important to the aviation industry, so UA and AA are beginning to cut to focus their resources elsewhere. This just isn't true. As a resident of Chicago, since 2013 the Chicago economy has really began to move again. The amount of construction is unbelievable. Particularly dowtown. Since September, a dozen construction crains have gone up. I recently saw a billboard that said more people have moved to Chicagoland in 2014 than any other metro area! How does this relate? Well, now that the economy and population are gaining momentum, ORD/MDW are beginning to feel the effects. ORD passengers are up 5% YTD, and MDW is growing at around 3% YTD. Not to mention the flood of international carriers. According to a thread a few weeks back about hub carriers and capacity, UA was up 4%, which is decent. What UA is doing this year is simply replacing 50 passenger RJs with 76 passenger E-175s, similar to AA's move in the past year. in terms of UA mainline, I don't expect any growth since their stubbornly keeping their mainline fleet flat, save for a few new 787s and used 737s. I'm sure it will begin to meaningfully trend upwards, but they haven't been significantly profitable until this year. I think that the rebanking is a smart move to increase connectivity, and hopefully volume, to build more attractive schedules for the growing O and D.
Unfortunately, domestic widebodies are probably not going to reappear in the same numbers as they used to. I think it would be smarter strategy than UA's 15 NBs to SFO each day, or AA's hourly flights to DFW, but I guess its better for them to be deployed towards long haul.
In terms of AA, I have no clue what they're up to. I recently flew them and T3 was crowded, with dozens of mainline jets on the tarmac. I don't know why they haven't competed here over the last decade, but hopefully DP will change that! (Hoping for mainline)
I was surprised that the UA HQ was moved here, but who wouldn't want to live here!   
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:11 pm

Would be great to see some widebodies on ORD-SFO/LAX. I fly those routes quite a bit and some WBs would be nice.

Everyone pokes fun at ORD for being full of RJs, but as soon as UA decides to move away from RJs, the peanut gallery starts exaggerating the demise of one of the busiest airports in the world. ORD will still be either the largest or second largest hub for UA, just less flights and more passengers in the terminal.

AA at ORD shows no signs whatsoever of growing. Just further retreat, especially internationally.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
While the Metro area that includes WI and IN has grown, the city itself is losing an alarming number of people.

This is the opposite trend of other large cities around the country where young people are returning to the cities after a generation of "White Flight."

Chicago is not the next Detroit, but Chicago has some issues. And O'Hare will reflect that. It is insulated because it is a GREAT location for connections. But I would expect to see more of this as population moves out of the city proper and closer to airports with other options or leaves the area altogether.

As previously said, the Chicago metro (ORD's catchment area) continues to grow, and will probably approach or pass 10 million sometime in the next 10 years. Chicago's economy has shifted from being a blue collar manufacturing/distribution center to a major global business hub. The population that is growing in Chicago is white collar workers, who often have to travel for work and their companies choose to be in Chicago because of ORD's locations and hubs. Chicago's downtown area has added more individuals in total population than any other city downtown during 2000-2010, including Midtown Manhattan.

The population in Chicago that is declining is mainly low skilled, blue collar individuals on the South Side and far West Sides. They have been moving to cheaper suburbs west and south of the city with better schools, or leave the metro entirely. I think this has a negligible effect on overall flying demand in Chicago.
 
jayunited
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:56 pm

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people on a.netters who over react to a simple plan that was announced months ago.

This is old news it was announced some time ago. ORD will be rebanked sometime in March according to Flying Together, the number of 50 seater aircraft being flown out of ORD will continue to be reduced in favor of more E175's and mainline aircraft. A lot of smaller stations that were previously served exclusively by RJ's will now see a mixture of RJ's and mainline service as a result of the return of mainline service to certain cities there will be an 8% reduction in overall departures from ORD but capacity will increase because of the larger mainline aircraft replacing the 50 seaters.

For years people have complained on this website (and rightly so) over UA prolific use of 50 seater RJ's and now that UA is starting to reduce the number of 50 seaters in it fleet some of those same people are still dissatisfied and claim that UA is just continuing to retreat which is not true.

You can not do an RJ - mainline one for one replacement while holding steadfast on your commitment to capacity discipline. The only way to keep from having to much capacity is by reducing frequency. So some cities that are now served 6x daily exclusively by RJ's will be cut to 4x daily and will have 2 RJ's and 2 mainline aircraft on the route. Although there will be a slight increase in capacity your not flooding the market with so much capacity that yields are now taking a hit, a one for one replacement was never going to happen it was never the plane.

This is what passengers and people here on a.netters have been asking for, for years and now that it is starting to happen the price for mainline service is a reduction in frequency in order to control capacity. This isn't the 1990's you simply can't have it both ways.
 
codc10
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:14 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
UA is not moving its HQ to Houston.
Matter of fact UA might be uprooting the CO training center out of IAH as well soon.
Announcement of consolidated training facility is due this winter with competition down to 3 finalist cities.

The existing training centers in IAH (both flight ops and inflight) are hopelessly outdated and enitrely too small for the present demands. I'd like to see it consolidate at DENTK (so much history there) but a lot of the signs point to an all-new facility elsewhere and unloading the TK real estate.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 12):
AA will expand ORD.. just wait  . They already overtook UA @ LAX as the largest carrier.. and they are NOT stopping. Expect new routes from LAX announced soon.

AA has spoken loud and clear re: ORD--every other hub has new products and destinations and ORD has gotten an RJ to BIS, essentially. Not even a 77W trip to LHR... HEL is gone and DUS is down to seasonal and probably not far behind HEL.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
jetskipper
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:04 pm

With the change will any cities be returning to mainline service to ORD?
 
UALFAson
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 12):
AA will expand ORD.. just wait . They already overtook UA @ LAX as the largest carrier.. and they are NOT stopping. Expect new routes from LAX announced soon.

AA is growing LAX because they need an Asian gateway on the West Coast. UA already has that in spades up in SFO and DL is trying to establish one in SEA.

I would even argue UA "let" AA overtake them because having a huge hub at LAX is not a priority for them with SFO just up the coast. Limited resources can be allocated elsewhere in markets where UA has a more dominant share and earn more profits.

None of that has anything to do with AA's size or plans at ORD.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:19 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 12):
AA will expand ORD.. just wait

Gate space at ORD is the biggest obstacle to growth and AA just lost two gates....to UA. Additionally, the layout of AA's terminals at ORD makes terminal congestion a bigger issue as each alley is a "box canyon" and very inefficient when running a bank.

Expansion at ORD will be very difficult for AA...not impossible but much harder than the competition over in T1.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:40 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 27):

I would even argue UA "let" AA overtake them because having a huge hub at LAX is not a priority for them with SFO just up the coast. Limited resources can be allocated elsewhere in markets where UA has a more dominant share and earn more profits.

With LAX being the hub for AA, UA, DL, WN, VX, and to a certain degree, AS, I don't see how any single airline would be able to command any meaningful fare premium.

Unless the largest airline reaches 2x the size of its nearest competitor, I'd say chasing LAX market share at diminishing returns is kinda like fool's gold.
 
chicawgo
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
This is the opposite trend of other large cities around the country where young people are returning to the cities after a generation of "White Flight."

I'll only focus on this one part of your post since I can see that other members are adequately and properly writing off pretty much everything you said as completely wrong.

The situation is the complete opposite as you claim. Young educated people are moving to Chicago in record numbers due to strong job opportunities in a world-class city yet 1/3 to 1/2 the living costs of NY. A few pieces of scientific data...

The rental market is at astronomically high records and there are dozens of highrises being built near downtown to accommodate the demand. I can see 5 of them from my apartment. Average rental prices at these buildings is around $3.25 per sq ft which is unheard of for Chicago outside of a few select buildlngs. That's young professionals paying $2000/month for 600 sqft studios and $3000 for 1 bedrooms. And I can assure you... they're virtually ALL YOUNG. I live in one of them.

Here's another piece of data from Crains: The Census Bureau reported in 2012 that Chicago gained more people within two miles of City Hall—48,288, or 36.2 percent—than any other American city, including New York, in the previous decade, in both absolute and percentage terms. An outsize share of these newcomers are young, ages 25 to 34.

Here's another: “In the year 2020, no matter how many condos are built or sold, Chicago is likely to be a nest of center-city affluence unequaled in size—or even approached—by anyplace in America,” journalist Alan Ehrenhalt writes in “The Great Inversion and the Future of the American City.”

This is because of the balance that Chicago maintains. It is a 24/7 city with immense cultural and entertainment institutions, but you can actually afford to live close to the city center.

For the record, I love NY. There is no other place like it. I'm only responding to your incorrect claims. You even say yourself that the metro area continues to increase... well where do you think those people fly out of? RFD?

Additionally, ORD traffic and movements are increasing more than many other major airports around the world. It is now the clear #1 busiest by movements again. If you don't believe me... ask the Airports Council

Movements: http://www.aci.aero/Data-Centre/Mont...ic-Data/Aircraft-Movements/Monthly
Pax: http://www.aci.aero/Data-Centre/Mont...fic-Data/Passenger-Summary/Monthly

Finally, as others have noted, the capacity is actually INCREASING through upgauging. This is exactly what we've wanted for many years!

I could give you anecdotal evidence as well including dozens of high end trendy restaurants and bars opening every month, record urban transit usage, etc...
 
LHUSA
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:31 pm

In 2015 ORD will actually see the highest growth in ASMs compared to all other hubs - thanks to slimline seats, some new routes and upgauged aircraft which will counteract the reduced departures.
 
birdbrainz
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:40 pm

I hope this means less need for UA to use Terminal 2. I hate that decrepit terminal with a passion.

On the other hand, maybe it would be better to not see UA reduce anything at ORD so that they could justify a new Terminal 2. That would make my day.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:52 pm

My factual claims about Chicago losing 200,000 people over the last decade are wrong huh?

Dont tell the census people that...or look at their numbers.

We can spin numbers and facts a lot of ways.

But please dont tell me that I am factually wrong when I say Chicago has lost population...a lot of it in recent years or over the past 50 years.

I wish Chicago many young hipsters and a much lower murder rate...its a great city.
 
UALFAson
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:57 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29):
With LAX being the hub for AA, UA, DL, WN, VX, and to a certain degree, AS, I don't see how any single airline would be able to command any meaningful fare premium.

Unless the largest airline reaches 2x the size of its nearest competitor, I'd say chasing LAX market share at diminishing returns is kinda like fool's gold.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not, but this is exactly my point. It's not in UA's best interest to duke it out at LAX with AA and DL and WN over rock-bottom fares on competing nonstops to CMH or BNA or wherever. Better to use those planes out of SFO or IAH where they dominate and can obtain a revenue premium.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:10 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
A has spoken loud and clear re: ORD--every other hub has new products and destinations and ORD has gotten an RJ to BIS,

While compared to other hubs yes it does seem like ORD gets on the short end of the stick, however, the E75's have been brought into ORD in droves, which is a significant upgrade over the ERJ's and CR7's. This has hallowed some CR7's to move into some previously all ERJ markets, my home market, CID is one of those we now have 2 CR7's into ORD which is the first time AA has had a first class cabin to ORD in probably over 20 years. Other markets that were all 50 seat to ORD have gaines either CR7's or E75's like OMA, DSM, etc. So there is some upgrading of products and aircraft going on, just not on a grand scale like we see at DFW, MIA etc.
 
freakyrat
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:07 am

SBN goes from 6 ERJ/CRJ flights to ORD to 4 ERJ/CRJ flights, but gets back one at the beginning of next summer.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 37):

I AM agreeing with you. Just pointing out what some believe will create a dominant carrier at lax , which won't happen for a very very long Time
 
29erUSA187
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:54 am

I hope that with the new deliveries of the 787's, there will be more 767's available. Do I smell a UA 767 from ORD to IAH, LAX, EWR, and IAD?

Quoting 777ord (Reply 12):
AA will expand ORD.. just wait  . They already overtook UA @ LAX as the largest carrier.. and they are NOT stopping. Expect new routes from LAX announced soon.

I would honestly not be surprised if they pick up the slack. I assume they want to seal it up to reduce the chances of a re-expansion from UA or an infiltration from DL. ORD is a great connecting point from the West Coast to almost anywhere in the eastern US, as well as a not-out-of-the-way hub for stopover flights to Europe.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2109
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:23 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 19):
Interesting, who are the finalist cities, If IAH is one, they might still win it.

As I understand it, IAH, DEN and Chicago are still in the running. Let's see if the decision is actually finalized this winter (I believe the original plan was to decide by the end of 2014).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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STT757
Posts: 14171
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:41 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 38):

UA is already flying 763s between EWR and ORD.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
B777fan
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:44 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:02 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
My factual claims about Chicago losing 200,000 people over the last decade are wrong huh?

Not wrong, just completely off point regarding the effects on ORD - or for that matter - MDW.
 
Beardown91737
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:39 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
This is the opposite trend of other large cities around the country where young people are returning to the cities after a generation of "White Flight."

Chicago is not the next Detroit, but Chicago has some issues. And O'Hare will reflect that. It is insulated because it is a GREAT location for connections. But I would expect to see more of this as population moves out of the city proper and closer to airports with other options or leaves the area altogether.
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 9):
That's largely a case of the "white flight" phenomenon, but I don't see how that's relevant here.

No, there is the same influx of young types in Chicago. In the meantime the suburbs become a lot more integrated, because it's not just the whites leaving Chicago anymore. Newer southern cities gain population from square miles that were annexed and built up, while LA's gains are mostly immigration related.

In any case, growth in Chicago suburbs does not translate into traffic for outlying airports. There is no ONT/ISP/AZA type of established facility in the area. Only GYY awaits, and most of the growth is in other areas. Besides, ORD is really centrally located to the North Side, and the north and west suburbs. I have said before on other threads, may look close on Google maps but it is about 50 miles from the established edge of suburbia. It isn't convenient at any time of year, and it isn't even wise or safe to think you can get to a plane on a snowy winter day.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 7):
Houston could even nab HQ.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Matter of fact UA might be uprooting the CO training center out of IAH as well soon.

Take that Texas. Now you cry.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
My factual claims about Chicago losing 200,000 people over the last decade are wrong huh?

What chicawgo wrote in post 30 is 99% accurate and has no conflict with the continuing population loss in the City of Chicago. The center city is gaining, along with some neighborhoods on the north side. However 10,000 yuppies a year moving to lofts near downtown only partially offsets 30,000 leaving to the suburbs and other states. You also don't account for a huge population rooted in the suburbs which will stay there for generations, and those people will travel from ORD and MDW.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 39):
As I understand it, IAH, DEN and Chicago are still in the running.

The reason to pretend to keep IAH in the running is to keep the people there (and the entire Continental was the Greatest Ever contingent) concentrating on their jobs.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:01 am

ORD-IND is a good example adding 2 A319 and dumping 2 RJ turns so will be 8 flights in stead of 10 Rjs kinda makes sense
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:28 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 43):
ORD-IND is a good example adding 2 A319 and dumping 2 RJ turns so will be 8 flights in stead of 10 Rjs kinda makes sense

In this type of an example, what does this mean for UA staffing at the outstation.
The contracts prior to the merger required UA to staff any station that had full-time mainline operations with mainline above and below the wing. I know that mandating UA doing some, well, shady things to not break that rule but not drop the station completely (thinking of Alaska here when they cut down to seasonal, etc).
Will these changes require mainline employees? or has the contract been changed to allow for mainline to be managed by contractors when it is a year-round service?
 
jcwr56
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:03 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned DUB-ORD or FCO-ORD yet for S15.
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4421
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 42):
Newer southern cities gain population from square miles that were annexed and built up, while LA's gains are mostly immigration related.

Factually wrong. There is a lot more at play than just annexation.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 42):
The reason to pretend to keep IAH in the running is to keep the people there (and the entire Continental was the Greatest Ever contingent) concentrating on their jobs.

Correct. The ironic thing is in lieu of United's shoddy service and reputation. ..Houston has had the largest growth in air travel ever; particularly from other carriers. Houstonians no longer are as faithful to CO/UA.
I get the Chicago pride, great town 'clap-clap pat on the back' but let's be real here...Chiraq is not the utopia you guys are trying to spin it as.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:45 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 45):
I'm surprised no one has mentioned DUB-ORD or FCO-ORD yet for S15

Very shrewd   
At least DUB will be a nonstop / codeshare with Aer Lingus, but no FCO?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14724
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 46):
Factually wrong. There is a lot more at play than just annexation.

  

Drerx, you may be able to speak to Houston. I can speak to some (rapidly growing) cities in my part of the world. Nashville has gained no land since the 1960s. Charlotte has gained some, but very, very little.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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AVENSAB727
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:02 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 46):

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 42):
Newer southern cities gain population from square miles that were annexed and built up, while LA's gains are mostly immigration related.

Factually wrong. There is a lot more at play than just annexation.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 42):
The reason to pretend to keep IAH in the running is to keep the people there (and the entire Continental was the Greatest Ever contingent) concentrating on their jobs.

Correct. The ironic thing is in lieu of United's shoddy service and reputation. ..Houston has had the largest growth in air travel ever; particularly from other carriers. Houstonians no longer are as faithful to CO/UA.
I get the Chicago pride, great town 'clap-clap pat on the back' but let's be real here...Chiraq is not the utopia you guys are trying to spin it as.

UA service as far as I heard, seems to be improving, let's just hope they can keep it up. I agree, more choices are better for Houstonians. I even heard Chicago could be the next Detroit here and elsewhere, but that is a rumor. The only thing I known is that Chicago has a crime problem.
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