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Rdh3e
Posts: 3634
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:25 pm

Quoting ordbosewr (Reply 44):
or has the contract been changed to allow for mainline to be managed by contractors when it is a year-round service?

That was the s-UA contract. The new contract covering all ground employees has a list of "Protected Stations" that are required to be mainline. There is no requirement based on the schedule for a station to be mainline employees, and there are currently some (not a lot) airports staffed by mainline that are not on the Protected Stations list.
 
Eirules
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 45):

Has this been confirmed? If so where?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
jayunited
Posts: 3229
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:35 pm

Quoting birdbrainz (Reply 32):
I hope this means less need for UA to use Terminal 2. I hate that decrepit terminal with a passion.

On the other hand, maybe it would be better to not see UA reduce anything at ORD so that they could justify a new Terminal 2. That would make my day.

No it does not mean that in fact UA will be later this year UA will be eliminating the second letter (ABCD) from all the F gates in T2 instead renumbering them from F1 to F27. UA is not giving up anything in T2 as they move to less 50 seaters.
 
jetblue1965
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 49):

UA service as far as I heard, seems to be improving, let's just hope they can keep it up. I agree, more choices are better for Houstonians. I even heard Chicago could be the next Detroit here and elsewhere, but that is a rumor. The only thing I known is that Chicago has a crime problem.

Certain parts of Chicago city has a crime problem, but those areas are closer to MDW than ORD anyway
 
spudsmac
Posts: 300
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):
UA is already flying 763s between EWR and ORD.

That's probably just a repo flight. Just like the IAH-DEN flight every day on the 787. It's just getting the plane in position for DEN-NRT.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:10 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 42):
However 10,000 yuppies a year moving to lofts near downtown only partially offsets 30,000 leaving to the suburbs and other states.

The cold hard truth is that that those 10,000 yuppies end up spending 5 times more than the 30,000 that are leaving.

Better jobs, more business, more flights..

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 49):
The only thing I known is that Chicago has a crime problem

Chicago is not in the Top 10 Murder rates

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...rate-us-cities-2013_n_6145404.html

[Edited 2014-11-14 07:17:20]
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LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 45):
I'm surprised no one has mentioned DUB-ORD or FCO-ORD yet for S15.

Because none are official.
There will also be new things like EWR-VCE, but company has not formally announced the routes yet.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 56):

There will also be new things like EWR-VCE, but company has not formally announced the routes yet.

Welcome to the EWR Dartboard. First CGN, IST, STR, and now VCE.
 
AA333PHL
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:58 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:25 pm

Are these going to be the new bank times?

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kgaiflyer
Posts: 2741
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 7):
maybe Houston could even nab HQ.

Moving headquarters for a large international and domestic carrier is quite a big deal.

City of Houston will need to put quite a large subsidy on the table to pull it off.
 
CHI787ORD
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:27 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 46):
I get the Chicago pride, great town 'clap-clap pat on the back' but let's be real here...Chiraq is not the utopia you guys are trying to spin it as.
Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 49):
I even heard Chicago could be the next Detroit here and elsewhere, but that is a rumor. The only thing I known is that Chicago has a crime problem.

Chicago is a big city with big issues. Particularly in crime and education. But to call it the next Detroit is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, the manufacturing base has been deteriorating, greatly affecting the quality of life for people on the South and far West Sides which is causing population loss in those areas. People are moving to the suburbs in search of a better life. At the same time there is a large influx of people from all over the Midwest who are young and educated. There are areas in Chicago that are very wealthy and educated and are continuing to expand. Detroit does not have the same economic base of Chicago, nor the economic diversification of Chicago.

There are parts of the South Side of Chicago which are very dangerous and crime rates as high as New Orleans. There are parts of the North Side of Chicago and downtown that are very safe and have crime rates as low as Toronto.

It seems really hard for people to grasp on here that maybe there are multiple forces at work in a city of 2.7 million, and a metro area of 9.5 million.
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4427
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 60):
It seems really hard for people to grasp on here that maybe there are multiple forces at work in a city of 2.7 million, and a metro area of 9.5 million.

Not hard to grasp at all...just not really that impressive to be perfectly honest. Chicago is a great town and I love visiting it...but as you've said it has some real issues. My opinion is just that it's not really that more impressive than any other global city.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14861
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RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 61):
My opinion is just that it's not really that more impressive than any other global city.

As a former Chicagoan, that's not really the point, I don't think. The point is that Chicago is a global city and not (like Saint Louis 50 or 60 years ago) a global city in danger of losing its global stature. It's not Louisville or Des Moines.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:58 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
My factual claims about Chicago losing 200,000 people over the last decade are wrong huh?

Dont tell the census people that...or look at their numbers.

We can spin numbers and facts a lot of ways.

But please dont tell me that I am factually wrong when I say Chicago has lost population...a lot of it in recent years or over the past 50 years.

I wish Chicago many young hipsters and a much lower murder rate...its a great city.

You are right. And another poster is right too, about the large influx of newer, younger people to the city. There is a new, vibrant tech and start-up culture forming in Chicago.
And while the net population shift is a bit of a loss, the people entering are much higher spenders, which helps the local economy.
I think it'll balance out over time. Especially when/if the crime laden areas are rectified.

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 60):
It seems really hard for people to grasp on here that maybe there are multiple forces at work in a city of 2.7 million, and a metro area of 9.5 million.

Yup Yup! Lots of stuff going on from entertainment, movie bizz, tech, start-ups, even some new small scale manufacturing! Things are looking bright for 2014. Which DID have an immigration boom to the city and metro area.
It'll be interesting to see how the final numbers shake out.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3634
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 61):
My opinion is just that it's not really that more impressive than any other global city.

It's not supposed to be "impressive". The best part about Chicago is that it is a very livable city. Cost of living is relatively low for a global city, crime in the good northside neighborhoods is almost non-existent, the schools in said neighborhoods are very good (the suburbs have some of the best in the country though). The public transit, though antiquated is more than adequate to get around the city. We have extensive parks all throughout the city that are amazing. World class dining etc etc..
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:19 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 24):
The existing training centers in IAH (both flight ops and inflight) are hopelessly outdated and enitrely too small for the present demands. I'd like to see it consolidate at DENTK (so much history there) but a lot of the signs point to an all-new facility elsewhere and unloading the TK real estate.

It'll be IAH or DEN.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 27):

I would even argue UA "let" AA overtake them because having a huge hub at LAX is not a priority for them with SFO just up the coast. Limited resources can be allocated elsewhere in markets where UA has a more dominant share and earn more profits.

UA wants to make LAX a 'large focus city'. AA is taking full advantage of it!

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 50):
Quoting ordbosewr (Reply 44):
or has the contract been changed to allow for mainline to be managed by contractors when it is a year-round service?

That was the s-UA contract. The new contract covering all ground employees has a list of "Protected Stations" that are required to be mainline. There is no requirement based on the schedule for a station to be mainline employees, and there are currently some (not a lot) airports staffed by mainline that are not on the Protected Stations list.

perhaps I am misunderstanding you RDH3E. I apologize if I am. But, the IAM contract actually states the agents are ONLY covered if they operate mainline flights. NOT skywest, we are actually vendoring ourselves to run skywest flights for us. The company only agreed to cover them in good faith. BOI for example has no supervisors because they are a purely OO run operation. They went to some hub positions to protect themselves. I wish no harm on any employee of any company based purely on saving a $, but the agents agreed to the repercussions of the contract.

The protected cities will see changes in 2016. look to the increase in RJ flying to those affected/protected cities. 170's are not mainline aircraft and therefore will not protect them.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:38 pm

From the Tribune article:
With rebanking, it has taken those flights and consolidated them into 11 banks that are directional, with morning flights arriving from the east, reloading at O'Hare and heading to a destination farther west.

I suspect that given the directional banking. I don't see the 6am bank for directional but rather purely O&D, but maybe that is just a semantic aspect.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25106
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting ordbosewr (Reply 66):
I don't see the 6am bank for directional but rather purely O&D, but maybe that is just a semantic aspect.

6AM is a directional bank. Primarily East.

You have wave of Western red-eyes arriving at 5am with transfer flow.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 636
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:30 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 67):
You have wave of Western red-eyes arriving at 5am with transfer flow.

I always forget about those because of how much I hate redeyes!
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 65):

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 27):

I would even argue UA "let" AA overtake them because having a huge hub at LAX is not a priority for them with SFO just up the coast. Limited resources can be allocated elsewhere in markets where UA has a more dominant share and earn more profits.

UA wants to make LAX a 'large focus city'. AA is taking full advantage of it!

4 of the largest O&D markets out of LAX (SFO ORD NYC HNL), UA has more seats and more frequencies.

AA has 2 TPAC flights/destinations from LAX, UA has 4.

I don't know what exactly are they taking advantage of.
 
chicawgo
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
My factual claims about Chicago losing 200,000 people over the last decade are wrong huh?

When did I say your factual claims are wrong? I am completely aware that Chicago has lost population. The entire point of my post was to refute your takeaway that it's in serious trouble. As I hope I made clear, the loss of absolute numbers from the city doesn't tell the true story. Especially considering, as you agree, the metro area continues to grow!! It's almost as if you believe that only residents within the Chicago city limits are allowed to use ORD and suburbanites are forbidden.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
We can spin numbers and facts a lot of ways.

I did not spin numbers and facts. I gave you numbers and facts.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
But please dont tell me that I am factually wrong when I say Chicago has lost population...a lot of it in recent years or over the past 50 years.

Again, you are right. I agree with factual data.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 46):
Factually wrong. There is a lot more at play than just annexation.

Factually wrong?? Your next sentence indicates you agree that annexation is at least a part of it!

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 46):
Chiraq is not the utopia you guys are trying to spin it as.

Ugh. No one is saying it's a utopia. Chicago has serious problems... just like every other big city. We are just disproving the claim that Chicago is falling apart because the city has lost population.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 61):
Not hard to grasp at all...just not really that impressive to be perfectly honest. Chicago is a great town and I love visiting it...but as you've said it has some real issues. My opinion is just that it's not really that more impressive than any other global city.

Impressive? I don't understand... No one is trying to say Chicago is more impressive. Obviously I am biased since I have chosen to live here... but impressive is subjective. Again, just trying to show that Chicago is growing economically and a top draw for young talent... regardless of the strictly murder crap Anderson Cooper spews on CNN.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3634
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 65):
The protected cities will see changes in 2016. look to the increase in RJ flying to those affected/protected cities. 170's are not mainline aircraft and therefore will not protect them.

The contract states that certain stations will be mainline employees, regardless of fleeting. There is no more relationship between staffing and the airplanes that are flown to the station. This allows much more flexible and economic decision making from a fleeting standpoint without the potential "repercussions" of driving staffing changes at airports due to fleeting decisions.
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4427
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 70):
Your next sentence indicates you agree that annexation is at least a part of it!

Yea, annexation that occurred 30 years ago, not the case today. You are still factually incorrect. People are moving to the south and southwest in record numbers. Has absolutely nothing to do with annexation.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
T5towbar
Posts: 492
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:27 am

Quoting 777ord (Reply 65):
The protected cities will see changes in 2016. look to the increase in RJ flying to those affected/protected cities. 170's are not mainline aircraft and therefore will not protect them.

Most of the line stations that are protected by contract are supposed to be insourced thru LOA#6. Those are the largest of the line stations that still handle a majority of mainline flights. Mainline will still be flying there along with the 170/175 or CR7. (IAH; ORD: and EWR will still handle Express thru the contract) Those will be what's left after the hubs. Everything else will probably be gone soon (27 up for review and probably on the hit list)
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
rj777
Posts: 1812
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 1:47 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:26 am

What about cities (like MKE) that are RJ only?
 
Beardown91737
Posts: 896
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:17 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 46):
Chiraq is not the utopia you guys are trying to spin it as.

Never said it was, and I haven't lived there since 1970, and I left Cook County for California in 1990.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 55):
The cold hard truth is that that those 10,000 yuppies end up spending 5 times more than the 30,000 that are leaving.

Better jobs, more business, more flights..

That's right but I wish you hadn't replied to my quote. I was telling the pizza folder that Chicawgo was correct about the yuppies moving in, but that he was also right about Chicago losing 20,000 a year. You seem to agree with that.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 55):
Chicago is not in the Top 10 Murder rates

Don't worry about that. It all depends on what part of town you are in. The part of Chicago I was from is super safe. My wife's old neighborhood isn't.I worked in San Bernardino for 17 years and wasn't worried, it was in the Hospitality district. Maybe also because I worked in East LA prior to that.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 62):
The point is that Chicago is a global city and not (like Saint Louis 50 or 60 years ago) a global city in danger of losing its global stature. It's not Louisville or Des Moines.

or Houston
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1841
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:02 pm

IND is mainline stafed ;b ut Who knows in 2015. CMH was closed in October and UA has been racking up thousands in customs fines mishandling International flights from YYZ and not many want to work for $8 an hour so they quit I think when they add it all up. Outsourcing does not save money; "you get what you pay for  "
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:06 pm

Very slightly off-topic but does anyone know (for sure) if the 788 and/or 789 can fit in the C-odd gates or all of the B gates from B3 thru B16?
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 57):

Welcome to the EWR Dartboard. First CGN, IST, STR, and now VCE.

Let's not forget ATH and CPH, either....
 
codc10
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:43 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 77):
Very slightly off-topic but does anyone know (for sure) if the 788 and/or 789 can fit in the C-odd gates or all of the B gates from B3 thru B16?

The 787 has roughly the same wingspan as a 777-200ER, so any gates which presently handle 777s are capable of handling 787s.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:56 pm

Quoting freshside3 (Reply 78):

CPH lasted for a long time before the cancellation so while it's failure I wouldn't lump it under the dartboard
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:16 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 79):
so any gates which presently handle 777s are capable of handling 787s.

Not so much concerned about wingspan as the adjacent gate could be either left open or accommodate a plane small enough to use the gates simultaneously. I was looking more for information on aircraft length and what would physically fit in the gates without infringing on the taxi-lanes between B and C.

DC-10s used to park between B and C. The 788, @186', is 16' longer than the DC10-30. The -9, @206', is 36' longer than the -10. Both 787s wingspans are 32' wider than the DC10.

Reason I ask; 5-10 years down the road, when the 767s start retiring and are being replaced by 788s and -9s, are these replacement aircraft going to be able to use the gates the 767s currently use. If not, it's going to be a battle for gate space at ORD if all of a sudden a bunch of gates are not able to accommodate even the current number of widebody flights.

[Edited 2014-11-15 10:30:34]
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5929
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:48 pm

RDU goes from:

4x CR7, 1x 738 (Nov) to 3x CR7, 1x 73G (Jan) to 2x E70, 1x E45, 1x 319 (Apr)

Good or not good?
Aiming High and going far..
 
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antoniemey
Posts: 1419
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 48):
Nashville has gained no land since the 1960s.

Hard to add land when your city limit is the county line.  
Quoting rj777 (Reply 74):
What about cities (like MKE) that are RJ only?

Contract employees. UA primarily looks at the dollar signs on the ledger, not the effect it can or will have on their customer service numbers (and the carryon effect that will have on the ledger in the future). I don't much like it, but, it's likely to keep me gainfully employed for awhile. And there are some cases where contract employees are providing better service than mainline. It's not the majority, but it happens.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 82):
4x CR7, 1x 738 (Nov) to 3x CR7, 1x 73G (Jan) to 2x E70, 1x E45, 1x 319 (Apr)

Looks mostly like a wash. Slight decrease in seats over the 5 month span, but that could be planned to increase again come summer. Or not. Hard to tell, really.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1841
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: United Changes At ORD

Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:21 am

Cargo used to make money for CO now it's outsourced and down 20% once you hand they keys Over to others to drive your car it won't last long   They even outsourced the management at those stations so the vendors are just racking up bills and sticking it to UA with no one to sign off on them.. They should have left at least one UA employee to review the bills and sign them . But sooner or later HQ will add it up and see the real costs

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