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TWA772LR
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:57 am

I don't know about Asia-Europe flights, but all US-Australia flights are red eyes and (I assume) all US-Asia flights take off in the late morning-noon time frame and cross into night eventually.

But my main point is, why are there not red eye Europe-USA flights? You can arrive at the airport after work, get on the plane, and arrive early in the morning the next day to make an early connection to where ever. Also, it would enable more connections from other parts of Europe/Middle East/Africa to make their connection.

So, why isn't this practiced? If it is, why isn't it more widespread? Who does this? Is one of the reasons because Europe and the US are closer to each other than the US to other continents?

Just curious.  

Addition: I guess the same can be asked for US transcons like NYC-LAX, but I guess no one wants to arrive at 3 or 4am (going off a 6hr-ish flight from JFK-LAX departing at midnight).

[Edited 2014-11-15 20:01:24]
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HAL
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:14 am

The only westbound domestic redeye I know of is HA flight 17, a daily LAS-HNL flight currently scheduled out at 1:45am and arriving at 5:55am local time. I've worked that one many times, and it's almost always full.

HAL
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Longhornmaniac
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:29 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
US-Asia flights take off in the late morning-noon time frame and cross into night eventually

There tend to be two banks of departures for Asia-bound flights. Flights depart either around noon in the US, arriving into Asia in the evening on the next calendar day. The second are the westbound redeyes, that leave around midnight +/- 2 hours or so, and arrive in the predawn hours one or two calendar days later, depending on the time of departure.

A lot of the Kangaroo route options wind up being a westbound redeye, as well, leaving Australia in the afternoon, arriving late evening into (SIN, HKG, DXB, BKK, etc.), then departing close to or after midnight and getting into Europe in the early morning.

As far as Europe-Americas, there are quite a few westbound redeyes to South America, but it is very rare to see them on the US flights. I would hypothesize it's because the demand eastbound is for redeyes more so, and for utilization purposes that necessitates aircraft positioning to the US in the afternoon to prepare for the evening departures back to Europe. That said, you could theoretically pair up a westbound redeye with the few daytime eastbound flights that exist.

Cheers,
Cameron
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masseybrown
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
why are there not red eye Europe-USA flights?

If you leave Europe "after work", as you specified, the timing just doesn't work. If you left London at 7:00PM, you would arrive in NY around 10:30PM, and in LAX around 11:30PM, not the next morning.
 
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TWA772LR
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:06 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 2):

Thanks for the insight!

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
If you leave Europe "after work", as you specified, the timing just doesn't work. If you left London at 7:00PM, you would arrive in NY around 10:30PM, and in LAX around 11:30PM, not the next morning

You could leave work at 5pm, make the flight at 7pm, arrive at 10:30pm, be in your hotel within an hour and a half, and then make your meeting the next day, or schedule the flight for earlier and time it to make Latin America connections from gateways in the US.

That's my train of thought on this, but if it worked it would be going on.
When wasn't America great?


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opethfan
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:48 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
You could leave work at 5pm, make the flight at 7pm

I wouldn't risk getting from the office to the airport, plus security and boarding, in 2 hours. For a domestic leg with lots of frequencies in case I miss one, sure. But for a long haul? No dice.
 
pdx
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:49 am

The best westbound redeye is on Columbia 409!
 
BoeingGuy
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:14 am

Quoting pdx (Reply 6):
The best westbound redeye is on Columbia 409!

Yeah, but it was daylight when they approached SLC.

In seriousness an example of a westbound red-eye is the BR SEA-TPE flight. It leaves SEA around 1-3am, depending on season and arrives TPE at about 6am. So you arrive burnt out, possibly, and have the whole day ahead of you.

Personally, I wouldn't like arriving at 6am after a long flight. Taking NH or DL SEA-NRT-TPE gets you to TPE in the evening, in time for a few beers and then go to bed for a full night sleep.
 
goboeing
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:24 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
In seriousness an example of a westbound red-eye is the BR SEA-TPE flight. It leaves SEA around 1-3am, depending on season and arrives TPE at about 6am. So you arrive burnt out, possibly, and have the whole day ahead of you.

I guess I'm the opposite passenger preference as you then.

I'd prefer to leave North America late at night and land at dawn in Asia. I love jumpseating a particular cargo flight that leaves LAX late and gets into a very good connecting hub in the pre-dawn hours. You have an unlimited amount of time to sleep...literally, sleep as long as you can, because you will hit your home time zone awake period before landing. Significantly less burned out than the feeling off getting off a USA-Europe flight that lands at dawn, or some idiotic domestic redeye where you could get 3 hours of sleep.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
Personally, I wouldn't like arriving at 6am after a long flight. Taking NH or DL SEA-NRT-TPE gets you to TPE in the evening, in time for a few beers and then go to bed for a full night sleep.

Just to illustrate the difference in the way I do it to acclimate vs. your method, I stay awake all the way to NRT from the US. Then on the connecting flight, to wherever (BKK/SIN/etc.) I try to eat the meal fairly quickly and then sleep as much as possible right until descent. Why? Because the flight leaves NRT at almost 05:00 at home and there are only a couple hours left to get good quality sleep (and even fewer if not a 'night owl' or the person was on an early morning schedule at home in the preceding few days).

Then, when we land, I go straight to the hotel or whatever, and immediately go back to sleep for as long as I can. Usually I'll end up waking up at around 3-4AM...it's now afternoon at home, and I've slept in as much as feasible and my circadian rhythm is waking me up.
 
NickLAX
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:37 am

Isn't most of this just operating hours in most European airports; late night curfew (LHR, FRA, etc). To make a westbound red eye feasible to arrive into the US early AM would mean a 1 or 2AM departure ; giving you a 5AM-6AM arrival into the US. I think a few select routes would do OK (LHR-LAX, etc) but again big stopper here is curfews.

With most US airports doing red eye Asia flights departures go Midnight to 2AM for most flights (some exceptions); would any EU airport be able to legally operate scheduled departures this late?

[Edited 2014-11-15 22:38:27]
 
Hagic
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:47 am

Although it doesn't fall into the full 'red-eye' category, I don't see myself walking out of EWR's Terminal C at 11:00 pm on a January day after flying for 8 hours from ZRH (on a 7:00 pm flight), walking across the overpass and freeze to death waiting for the next PATH train to Manhattan (or spending $120 for a cab ride) or landing at JFK and also freezing to death waiting for the next LIRR at Jamaica. I love the PATH and the LIRR. They provide convenient, frequent and swift communing into Penn Station but I would rather do all this in the afternoon, not at midnight.

And in order for airlines to optimize operations, return flights would have to depart at 1:00 am or 2:00 am for an across-the-pond flight. Simply impossible.

[Edited 2014-11-15 23:01:59]
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Mir
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:22 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
You could leave work at 5pm, make the flight at 7pm, arrive at 10:30pm, be in your hotel within an hour and a half, and then make your meeting the next day, or schedule the flight for earlier and time it to make Latin America connections from gateways in the US.

That's my train of thought on this, but if it worked it would be going on.

It is going on. There are several late LHR-NYC flights that leave LHR at about 8pm and arrive at 1030 or 11pm. It's quite a nice flight jetlag-wise, as if you can stay awake the whole flight you're really ready to go to bed when you arrive.

BA and VS have the aircraft overnight in NYC and then operate the morning departures back to LHR the next day, which keeps ground time reasonably short.

-Mir
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hawaiian717
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:25 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
Personally, I wouldn't like arriving at 6am after a long flight. Taking NH or DL SEA-NRT-TPE gets you to TPE in the evening, in time for a few beers and then go to bed for a full night sleep.

All depends on how well you sleep on planes. And traditionally, I don't do it very well. All the times I've flown LAX-TPE have been on the mid-afternoon flights on BR or CI (BR11 or CI5). Most recent was a BR11 that departed LAX at 5:45pm and was scheduled to land at 10pm. Doze off a bit on the flight, then arrive and go straight to bed in Taipei.
 
Noise
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:25 am

Canada to Australia is also a westbound red eye. (YVR to SYD)

South Africa to USA (JNB to JFK) is a red eye as well.
 
masseybrown
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:05 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
You could leave work at 5pm, make the flight at 7pm, arrive at 10:30pm, be in your hotel within an hour and a half, and then make your meeting the next day, or schedule the flight for earlier and time it to make Latin America connections from gateways in the US.

You could do that - it's possible now; but it would be an "evening flight" not a red-eye, which implies an overnight flight arriving in the early AM.
 
HALFA
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:08 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):

I don't know about Asia-Europe flights, but all US-Australia flights are red eyes

Incorrect. Hawaiian's flights from the US (HNL) to both BNE and SYD depart HNL in the morning and arrive in Australia in the late afternoon/early evening. Daylight flying for most of the journey.

Aloha,
HALFA
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DocLightning
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:26 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
But my main point is, why are there not red eye Europe-USA flights? You can arrive at the airport after work, get on the plane, and arrive early in the morning the next day to make an early connection to where ever. Also, it would enable more connections from other parts of Europe/Middle East/Africa to make their connection.

Two things: First, you gain very few clock hours on a WB flight. I once left LHR at 10:30 AM and arrived at JFK at 1:30 PM. So even if you left LHR at 00:30, you'd arrive in New York at 03:30, which is an obnoxious hour to arrive anywhere. Second, then now the aircraft needs to depart by 07:30 to get any reasonable fleet utilization out of it. But that means arriving at like 8-9PM back in LHR. And who the heck wants to leave that early in the morning?

Red-eyes work on transpacific routes because of the comparatively longer travel time. But even then, West Coast -> Australia flights leave very late at night (around midnight) and arrive at around 7AM. Even the shorter Transpacs (like SFO-NRT) are daylight flights usually because you only arrive three hours after you left (albeit the next day).
-Doc Lightning-

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jamesontheroad
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:25 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
But my main point is, why are there not red eye Europe-USA flights? You can arrive at the airport after work, get on the plane, and arrive early in the morning the next day to make an early connection to where ever.

As a few have noted, BA and VS have some evening westbound departures from LHR. This is a typical weekday schedule with BA (including BA1xxx codeshares with AA) from LHR to JFK (including two to EWR) next week. The last two flights seems to fit into the category you're describing, but the you still arrive in the US on the same day. There is no overnight advantage. Remember also that flights can't be schedule to depart/arrive LHR from 23:00-06:00, so a really late night departure from LHR isn't possible.

08:20 - 11:00 BA0117
09:55 - 12:45 BA0175
10:35 - 13:35 BA1516
11:05 - 14:05 BA0185 (EWR)
11:30 - 14:25 BA0113
12:35 - 15:45 BA1506
13:15 - 16:15 BA0177
14:15 - 17:20 BA0173
15:10 - 18:05 BA0189 (EWR)
16:10 - 19:20 BA0115
17:05 - 20:20 BA1510
18:00 - 21:00 BA0179
20:00 - 22:55 BA0183
 
B747forever
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:21 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
If you left London at 7:00PM, you would arrive in NY around 10:30PM, and in LAX around 11:30PM, not the next morning.

One of the latest ex-Europe departures to the west coast is AF's 76 CDG-LAX departing at 7:10pm, arriving at 9:50pm.
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AeroWesty
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:22 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
But that means arriving at like 8-9PM back in LHR. And who the heck wants to leave that early in the morning?

Quite a lot of people, actually. Take a look at the number of daylight flights there are to LHR departing JFK, ORD, IAD, BOS, YYZ, etc. When I lived in L.A., a couple of times I flew the 10pm red-eye to JFK, then hopped onto the daylight flight to LHR, with virtually no jet lag the next morning.
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ei912
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:49 am

Quoting NickLAX (Reply 9):
Isn't most of this just operating hours in most European airports; late night curfew (LHR, FRA, etc). To make a westbound red eye feasible to arrive into the US early AM would mean a 1 or 2AM departure ; giving you a 5AM-6AM arrival into the US. I think a few select routes would do OK (LHR-LAX, etc) but again big stopper here is curfews.

I have always thought there was a market for these times. E.g. here in DUB, EI have quite a significant amount of flights arriving late evening (i.e. 2300-0000), a 0230 departurre to JFK would have you in after 0500 which is no worse than the current arrival offering eastbound. Also flight is usually around or over the 7 hour mark so better chance of decent sleep than eastbound.
In addition, a 0500-0530 arrival into JFK opens a lot more connection possibilties. The return could leave about 0800, arriving into DUB about 1900, which is even better than their planned daylight flight next summer as well as allowing late evening connections to the UK.
A similar pattern to SFO could work, depart DUB at 0200, arrive 0500 and a 1030 return would allow for an early 0500 in DUB also. Utilisation might not be as good, but many would appreciate the option of these times.
MIA, DFW, IAH would work even better for these type of timings.

Also, look at the ME3, they all have 0300ish departures to Europe for early morning arrivals as well. Having travelled on EK several times at this hour, flights are almost always full with these timings esp in J/F.

[Edited 2014-11-16 03:10:45]
 
frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:08 pm

Because it wouldn't actually work. There are more timezones to America than there are to places of longer distances, for example, Dubai is 4,000 miles and has a 3 hour time difference but Boston is under 3,000 miles and 5 hours.
if I got on a plane at say 10pm and went to NYC i'd arrive at about 11pm so it wouldn't really be a red eye lol.

[Edited 2014-11-16 05:15:36]
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frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:11 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):

No I like arriving in the morning, I do wish they'd have more transatlantic flights arriving here at night so I could sleep.

Like say leave NYC at 8am and then arrive here at 6pm then leave at 7pm to be back for 9. That could work.
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frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:12 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):

I honestly get ZERO jetlag when I go there..
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frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:16 pm

Quoting ei912 (Reply 20):

Why are you comparing Dubai with Dublin when its more than double the distance and less timezones? You also do realise that if it left at 2am it would more than likely arrive at 3 or 4am not 5am, its not 8 hours to NYC.

If you looked at flight aware you'd see that all departures westbound arrive within 2 hours of their departure times, sometimes less than an hour.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIN105/history/20140812/0950Z/EIDW/KJFK

[Edited 2014-11-16 05:24:46]
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jetblue1965
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:19 pm

I think we're mixing the terms red eye and overnight

Red eye should be reserved to describe the really short overnight flights (like 3-5hours) that don't allow decent sleep

14 hours of LAX-SYD is more than enough to get 2 decent naps, so it's simply "overnight"
 
airbazar
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:38 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
But my main point is, why are there not red eye Europe-USA flights? You can arrive at the airport after work, get on the plane, and arrive early in the morning the next day

That's physically impossible in most cases. From Western Europe to the U.S. the flights are not long enough to allow that and there is no dateline to cross. Take LHR-JFK as an example: Flight time is 7 hours. Time zone difference between the 2 cities is 5 hours. 7-5=2. So no matter what time you depart LHR, you will always arrive a mere 2 hours later than your departure time, in local time. LHR-LAX is 10 hours. Time zone difference is 8 hours. Again, you will arrive only 2 hours after your departure time.

You will find TATL westbound red-eyes on routes between the EU and S.America because the combination of longer flight and less timezone difference makes that possible.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
You could leave work at 5pm, make the flight at 7pm, arrive at 10:30pm, be in your hotel within an hour and a half, and then make your meeting the next day,

But that's not a red eye, and that already exists. There are quite a few TATL flights that depart Europe after 7pm (mostly LHR and CDG). There are even more that depart after 6pm.
 
frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:43 pm

I don't think it would work even if they reduced the time difference to 4 hours.
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh...3/history/20141029/1920Z/EGLL/KJFK
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Mir
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Second, then now the aircraft needs to depart by 07:30 to get any reasonable fleet utilization out of it. But that means arriving at like 8-9PM back in LHR. And who the heck wants to leave that early in the morning?

This guy, and a lot of others. If you can spare the day, then it's a great jetlag reducer - again, you stay up the whole flight, and then you get to London feeling tired and it's 9 in the evening. Have some dinner, go to bed, wake up the next morning, you're adjusted. And I find it very easy to spare the day, since the first day after arriving on an overnight transatlantic is pretty much wasted anyway thanks to jetlag.

-Mir
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tjwgrr
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:19 pm

Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:23 pm

1. Madrid is 7 hours ahead not 5.
2. The flight is 6 hours longer.
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ei912
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 21):
Because it wouldn't actually work. There are more timezones to America than there are to places of longer distances, for example, Dubai is 4,000 miles and has a 3 hour time difference but Boston is under 3,000 miles and 5 hours.
if I got on a plane at say 10pm and went to NYC i'd arrive at about 11pm so it wouldn't really be a red eye lol.
Quoting Frostyj (Reply 24):
Why are you comparing Dubai with Dublin when its more than double the distance and less timezones? You also do realise that if it left at 2am it would more than likely arrive at 3 or 4am not 5am, its not 8 hours to NYC.

I know its not really conventional as such but just putting the idea out there. But just to clarify my point.

DUB-JFK is just under 2800nm while Dubai is about 3200nm, not a huge difference really.
New York has 5 hours difference from Dublin, while Dubai has 4 hours change at the moment, again not a big difference.

An example of an actual EI schedule of DUB-JFK:
Dep DUB 1600 Arr JFK 1835 (2 hrs 35 mins time difference)

Therefore a night flight could work as follows:
Dep DUB 0230 Arr JFK 0505 (going by the same schedule as above.)

The only reason I reference Dubai, is that there are plenty of departures to Europe around 3am or so, and it not considered unusual to fly at that hour. Therefore, I am just putting it out there that maybe it might not be that unusual if tried here.

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 24):
If you looked at flight aware you'd see that all departures westbound arrive within 2 hours of their departure times, sometimes less than an hour.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIN105/history/20140812/0950Z/EIDW/KJFK

Using this link, the average time seems to be in or around the 7 hours mark, give or take 20 minutes.

Again, I'm only making some points, I'm not saying it would be a guaranteed success by any means, just that there is an argument that it might work if done properly.
 
B8887
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 25):
14 hours of LAX-SYD is more than enough to get 2 decent naps, so it's simply "overnight"

Actually, I have a question on this. I am reasonably well traveled but I have never taken a full transpacific flight. These flights often arrive two day later or, eastbound, before they depart.

And my question is, do the FA's make any mention of the local time AND date on arrival, and how these unusual schedules affect your onward journey? Do you feel particularly jetlagged by arriving two days later, or does it affect your business meetings for example?

Current QF schedule SYD-LAX

QF107 SYD1155 – 0630LAX 744 x57
QF107 SYD1155 – 0630LAX 388 57
QF011 SYD1500 – 0935LAX 388 D

QF012 LAX2220 – 0820+2SYD 388 D
QF108 LAX2355 – 0940+2SYD 744 x57
QF108 LAX2355 – 0955+2SYD 388 57


Thanks.

B8887
 
CPH-R
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:36 pm

DE still has a single westbound overnight flight, FRA-SDQ. 21.55 departure out of FRA, 03:15 arrival at SDQ (IIRC it used to be a 23.55 departure). Given that the flight caters mainly to charter tourists, I suppose they can get away with it. What makes it work is the fact that there's a tag-on round-trip to SJO, so the aircraft doesn't have to spend too long on the ground at SDQ.

And while you can argue their status, LY used to do westbound overnight flights TLV-MIA with B762 equipment. One of the longer routes for the type, if I'm not mistaken.
 
B747forever
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 32):
And my question is, do the FA's make any mention of the local time AND date on arrival, and how these unusual schedules affect your onward journey? Do you feel particularly jetlagged by arriving two days later, or does it affect your business meetings for example?

Flew this route the past summer, and upon landing the f/a mentioned the time/day of week and date, something along the lines of "local time is 6AM Friday, August the 8th". It was my first transpacific flight, so before leaving on the trip I thought I would suffer from jet-lag. However, the 15 hour journey went by surprisingly fast, and I did not suffer from any jet lag at all. Even the journey back to LA was not bad, and I was back on normal time within a day. Going LA-Europe messes more with my body clock than the trip to AUS did.
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frostyj
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Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:32 pm

Thats because theres only a 5 hour time difference.
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MAH4546
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:38 pm

Air Europa's Madrid-Miami flight operated as a redeye this past summer.
a.
 
steex
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:43 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 32):
Do you feel particularly jetlagged by arriving two days later, or does it affect your business meetings for example?

Your body doesn't know the date or day of week, just where your body's usual circadian rhythms are compared to the sun, so that part makes no difference. It would really only impact business meetings in the same way any other jetlag might, unless you didn't realize in advance that your Aug. 1 departure arrived on Aug. 3 and had scheduled a full day of meetings Aug. 2.
 
B747forever
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:48 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 35):
Thats because theres only a 5 hour time difference.

Correct, you are crossing fewer time zones when going to AUS compared to Europe. However, I thought the long journey, about 6hours longer than flying to Europe, would make it worse.
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frostyj
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:03 pm

No its the time difference for me. I really hate those flights that leave at midnight and arrive 5 hours later at 10am, that really really drains all my energy.

I would be in favour of daylight eastbound flights.
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alfa164
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting ei912 (Reply 20):
Also, look at the ME3, they all have 0300ish departures to Europe for early morning arrivals as well. Having travelled on EK several times at this hour, flights are almost always full with these timings esp in J/F.

Late night/early morning departures also offer also operational advantages in the Middle East. The extreme daytime heat limits loads; the somewhat cooler night temperatures allow for more lift.

The schedules of the ME3 are not only designed for passenger convenience, but also for these operational advantages.
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BoeingGuy
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 25):
I think we're mixing the terms red eye and overnight

You are correct. Like a lot of terms, they have expanded in meaning. But yes, the original definition of "red eye" is a short overnight flight not just any international flight that goes overnight.

I've taken the AA red-eye SEA-DFW several times for SEA-DFW-LFT. That is difficult. At best, maybe I can get two hours sleep.

I've also done the NW SEA-MSP red-eye. That's just as bad.

Slight off-topic, but the best example I can think of, of a word or phrase being expanded or distorted from it's original meaning is Sherpa. Sherpas are a indigenous culture of people in Nepal. Some of them are also excellent at carrying large loads of trekkers' gear. So many people think Sherpa means someone who carries luggage for you anywhere.
 
rdwootty
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:43 pm

I tried a different way , London to Toronto .. stay overnight.. flew then to Calgary arriving breakfast time and still had a night in bed!
 
SCQ83
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:50 pm

London (or Dublin)-Dubai in winter is indeed a bad example, since it is a 4 hour difference (GCC countries do not observe Daylight Save Timings).

But London-Dubai in summer is 3 hours. London-Doha in summer is 2 hours (Doha is one hour behind Dubai). AND... Madrid-Doha or Paris-Doha in summer is only 1 hour difference! DOH-MAD is a 7h30' flight. Comparable to MAD-JFK or MAD-BOS.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 40):
Late night/early morning departures also offer also operational advantages in the Middle East. The extreme daytime heat limits loads; the somewhat cooler night temperatures allow for more lift.

The schedules of the ME3 are not only designed for passenger convenience, but also for these operational advantages.

This not only about the ME3. In fact the "original" bank to Europe from the ME3 is usually the early morning departure from the Gulf.

But this schedule is used by European airlines (not always BA since LHR is a large local market for them) in the Gulf (and by Saudia that does not rely on connecting traffic) since you arrive early morning in Europe and can connect onwards to the rest of the continent and to the US.

I actually love flying those flights (if you are able to sleep) flying locally. I.e. DOH-CDG in summertime 01:25-07:25. It really allows you to do anything in terms of timing (you leave really late and you arrive really early) on both ends with no jet-lag.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting HALFA (Reply 15):
Hawaiian's flights from the US (HNL) to both BNE and SYD depart HNL in the morning and arrive in Australia in the late afternoon/early evening. Daylight flying for most of the journey.

For certainty and completeness, the same applies to QF on HNL-SYD and JQ to SYD, MEL, and BNE.

Quoting B8887 (Reply 32):
Do you feel particularly jetlagged by arriving two days later

No, because the "day" and "date" are merely human constructs, your body doesn't know they exist, but the time difference is less than going from LAX to Europe.
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HAWAIIAN932
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:13 pm

I'm flying out in 2 weeks on HA 17, the red-eye from LAS to HNL. I love this flight. It's normally completely full. I'll be arriving at 6.00am, pick up the rental car, drive to the hotel, which allows me to check-in whenever I get there, unpack and I'll be on the beach by 10.00am. No wasted day of traveling. Baggage arrives quickly. No lines at the rental car facility. No long check-in line at the hotel. I have taken this flight 7 or 8 times and it's perfect for my needs. I fall right to sleep after takeoff and arrive fairly refreshed and anxious to hit the beach.
 
b747400erf
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:33 pm

Many big airports in Europe have curfew, so tough to do redeyes.
 
airplanenut
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Westbound Red Eyes

Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:02 pm

There are a few flights from TLV-JFK that leave around 12:00-1:00am and then arrive somewhere in the 4:00-5:30am time frame. I've loved these flights when I take them, as I can get a full night's sleep (and then some--the flight is around 10-11 hours) and you land at a reasonable morning hour. Early, yes, but by the time you get out of the airport, it's not the middle of the night.

If a flight like this were done from Europe, the flight time would be maybe 2-3 hours shorter, so to land at the same time would mean leaving at 2:00-3:00am, which isn't so much a redeye anymore, but an annoying time to leave. Alternatively, if you left at midnight, you'd land so early that it would still be the middle of the night. Overall, I think the times from Europe just don't quite work out well enough.
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Ytraveller
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Westbound Red Eyes

Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:10 am

All India - US nonstops (DEL - EWR/JFK/ORD, BOM - EWR), depart around 1 am and arrive at 6 am.

- Ytraveller  
 
NYC-air
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 6:59 am

Westbound Red Eyes

Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting airplanenut (Reply 47):

There are a few flights from TLV-JFK that leave around 12:00-1:00am and then arrive somewhere in the 4:00-5:30am time frame. I've loved these flights when I take them, as I can get a full night's sleep (and then some--the flight is around 10-11 hours) and you land at a reasonable morning hour.

I wonder when TK will do this from IST. They keep adding frequencies and, you'd think, if a daylight flight can work from TLV it should work from IST as well. The IST-JFK flight is only about 40mins shorter than TLV-JFK.

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