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American 767
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Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:59 am

Part 72 getting too long with over 200 replies, I archived it and made a new thread to continue the discussion:

Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 72 (by American 767 Oct 27 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:02 am

The latest ATSB Search Update shows 6800 km2 of sea floor have been searched so far. They also have a new video that describes the undertaking.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:12 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 193):
Human beings who commit mass murder are not known to be particularly fond of leaving behind notes. I have no idea where you are getting 'suicide' from.

This is the same mentality used by lynch mobs. It requires no real effort or desire to know the truth of what happened. Just go buy a rope and join the mob.

The shout against the dead (and quite possibly innocent) captain has progressed from suicide to a mass murder where he dies with his victims. I don't even see this as a possibility. Please give me one example of an incident where an airline captain has purposely killed or injured his passengers without it being a suicide attempt. And I might add to this that the possibility of even a captain suicide is extremely rare.

If they are reading this thread, my deepest apologies to the family of the captain

What is your agenda, really?
Life is too short for cheap coffee.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:22 am

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 2):
The shout against the dead (and quite possibly innocent) captain has progressed from suicide to a mass murder

Has it? Please expound on this notion, enlighten me. How would this not be mass murder, IF Zaharie committed the act?

What a nonsensical statement you have made here. My condolences to the 238 victim's loved ones, who according to you, don't qualify as being the victims of murder, even if Zahrie was responsible.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:23 am

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 2):
The shout against the dead (and quite possibly innocent) captain has progressed from suicide to a mass murder where he dies with his victims. I don't even see this as a possibility. Please give me one example of an incident where an airline captain has purposely killed or injured his passengers without it being a suicide attempt. And I might add to this that the possibility of even a captain suicide is extremely rare.

Well, suicide committed by flying an aircraft full of passengers into the ground / ocean is always also a mass murder, isn't it?
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
LovesCoffee
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:58 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 3):
Has it? Please expound on this notion, enlighten me. How would this not be mass murder, IF Zaharie committed the act?
Quoting pvjin (Reply 4):
Well, suicide committed by flying an aircraft full of passengers into the ground / ocean is always also a mass murder, isn't it?

I am simply making a differentiation between mass murder for the sake of murder and a suicide where a person is more focused on their own death and loses all perspective of the collateral damage it may cause.

And oxymorph has twisted words, as usual. I repeat - what is your agenda? Who are you working for?

And I also repeat, your logic is based on flimsy circumstantial evidence and, because of the certainty with which you scream it, at this time is nothing but lynch mob mentality.

Some day we will know if the captain did this
or maybe the first officer
or maybe hijackers
or maybe mechanical failure
or maybe a T7 design defect
or maybe fire/smoke.
And maybe how accurate the pings really are.

Everything right now is just guesswork - some of which is much more educated than the rest.

Oh, and oxymorph, I still wait for you sophisticated 'maths' and such with which you will prove without a doubt what happened. Having not seen this, I am starting to worry that you are just trolling.   
Life is too short for cheap coffee.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:59 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 4):
Well, suicide committed by flying an aircraft full of passengers into the ground / ocean is always also a mass murder, isn't it?

I believe you are correct, my Finnish friend. I'm sincerely unsure as to whether LovesCoffee is compos mentis. Are you okay, Lovescoffee? Perhaps you would care to amend your statement, or change your words.

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 2):
What is your agenda, really?

The truth...the victims loved ones deserve at least this. Now, as to your agenda, well, that's another matter entirely.   
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:00 am

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 5):
I am simply making a differentiation between mass murder for the sake of murder and a suicide where a person is more focused on their own death and loses all perspective of the collateral damage it may cause.

Just for you I'll repeat my post from part 72:

Quoting tailskid:
I don't see Zaharie's actions as suicide in the normal sense anymore than I would see a soldier's actions involving certain death as suicidal. Suicide is an inward looking event, a warrior's death results from exterior events; Zaharie fits the warrior model.

Then I'll cap this with the poem written by Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah:

The soldier fought his battle silently.

Not his the strife that stays for set of sun;
It seemed this warfare never might be done;
Through glaring day and blinding night fought he.
There came no hand to help, no eye to see;
No herald’s voice proclaimed the fight begun;
No trumpet, when the bitter field was won,
Sounded abroad the soldier’s victory.
As if the struggle had been light, he went,
Gladly, life’s common road a little space;
Nor any knew how his heart’s blood was spent;
Yet there were some who after testified
They saw a glory grow upon his face;
And all men praised the soldier when he died.


I hpoe you know a little more about Captain Z after reading that.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:17 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 7):
The soldier fought his battle silently.

Not his the strife that stays for set of sun;
It seemed this warfare never might be done;
Through glaring day and blinding night fought he.
There came no hand to help, no eye to see;
No herald’s voice proclaimed the fight begun;
No trumpet, when the bitter field was won,
Sounded abroad the soldier’s victory.
As if the struggle had been light, he went,
Gladly, life’s common road a little space;
Nor any knew how his heart’s blood was spent;
Yet there were some who after testified
They saw a glory grow upon his face;
And all men praised the soldier when he died.

I hpoe you know a little more about Captain Z after reading that.

I wonder what grade that intriguing piece of work received...???

I would still like to know a little more before I reorganise the various possible scenarios in my mind into a list of most probable to least probable in regards to why MH370 did not land in PEK and leave skidmarks on the runway as scheduled way back in March...
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EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:21 am

We are now discussing in Part 73 without any solution so it's time to think beyond borders. I was following this discussion since the early beginning and I am pretty sure we won't solve the mystery by going on this way. The first published article ever since the disappearence of MH370 that fully reflects my own thoughts is the interview given by Emirates head Sir Tim Clark to the German Magazine Der Spiegel, you can read the full interview here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-about-investigation-a-996212.html
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:29 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
I wonder what grade that intriguing piece of work received...???

This isn't school; it's real life.
But how could I expect those who have so much trouble understanding prose to understand poetry?

If you don't understand it, please try to accept that it meant something to Zaharie.
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:39 am

Point No.1) The exact time the disappearence started.

If we assume that "probably control was taken of that airplane" like Sir Clarke told the magazine, what would have been the - let's say best moment - to take over control? There is only ONE moment in the entire flight to take over control and in exactly THAT moment the disapperance began. I think we can most likely lighten up a lot of things just by doing mathematics, in this case by doing "calculus of probability". How likely does a row of mechanical failures occur at exact the time of handover from Malaysian to Vietname air control? What is more likely? To take over control using the opportunity of the gap right between after saying "good night" to Malaysia air traffic control and not getting in contact with Vietname air traffic or that a fatal row of e.g. mechanical failures starts at EXACTLY that moment?
 
LovesCoffee
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:47 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 6):
The truth...the victims loved ones deserve at least this. Now, as to your agenda, well, that's another matter entirely.

Thanks for answering the first part of my post. Now please answer the last part.

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 5):
Oh, and oxymorph, I still wait for you sophisticated 'maths' and such with which you will prove without a doubt what happened. Having not seen this, I am starting to worry that you are just trolling.
Life is too short for cheap coffee.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:51 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
I would still like to know a little more before I reorganise the various possible scenarios in my mind into a list of most probable to least probable in regards to why MH370 did not land in PEK and leave skidmarks on the runway as scheduled way back in March...

777Jet, you strike me as a measured and thoughtful human being, intent on remaining open to all manner of possibilities (even positive lightning strikes LOL). You have readily dismissed those theories put forth that have no basis in fact ( or fiction, for that matter). These include, and do correct me if I'm misrepresenting your viewpoint: Aliens, meteor, Godzilla, crash at or around IGARI (for whatever reason), coronal mass ejection and probably some other quite ludicrous scenarios.

Now, i would submit to you (and you WILL disagree, as i of course expect, based on your proclivity to remaining open) that the other scenarios, aside from Zaharie, are just as implausible as Godzilla. The FO? This is simply MOST unlikely, for a plethora of quite obvious reasons. Terrorists? Again, I think not. This would be to enter into the theatre of the absurd. IF this was carried out by terrorists, they were exceptional by ANY standard. Just extraordinary chaps, snagging a plane for no good reason (unless you allow for your imagination to literally run WILD entertaining such garbage). Fire? No, just no. Pihero's pedestal debacle (a valiant attempt, I will give him that much)? I went back into the thread and discovered this scenario he put forth. WELL DONE BUT REEKS OF DESPERATION. The esteemed pilot is just grasping at straws. Those few reeds of hollow no longer exist at all, hence the deafening silence.

Again, I respect your stance on allowing for your mind to remain accepting to other possibilities. But only ONE train of events took place that morning. It was Zaharie's show all the way.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:59 am

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 12):
Oh, and oxymorph, I still wait for you sophisticated 'maths' and such with which you will prove without a doubt what happened. Having not seen this, I am starting to worry that you are just trolling.

Certainly. as WingedMigrator deftly pointed out (apparently you missed his observation), my 'lightning strike' scenario was indeed a rhetorical device. If the irony passed you by, you have my apologies. The absurdity of any other scenario (unless you care to blame the FO, which I believe is absurd as well), was my ultimate intention. If I failed, so be it. If I rubbed some the wrong way in an ill conceived attempt to make a point, my apologies.

One of Zaharies friends, Alex Siew, is putting forth a 'lightning strike' in an effort to protect his buddy. It's quite disgusting.
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:00 am

Point No. 2) The failure of all transmission systems including ACARS

Let's do some "calculus of probability" again. Disabling of ACARS is not a simple thing and most pilots are not trained to do so, so how likely is it, that ALL communication systems fail at nearly the same time in a row of events? Sometimes we had discussed that maybe a fire broke out and lead to the failure of all those transponding systems. Instead of speculating if a fire could lead to all those errors we now have to ask: How likely does a fire occur at exactly that time of the flight, right after saying "goodbye" to Malaysia and not having said "good morning" to Vietnam? I am pretty sure a lot of answers to the MH370 mystery can be given just by questioning the right questions and doing calculus of probability !
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:14 am

Point No. 3) The Investigation

Let's come back to the interview of Emirates CEO Sir Clark when he gets asked why the aircraft flew 5 hours to Antarctica: "If they did! I am saying that all the "facts" of this particular incident must be challenged and examined with full transparency. We are nowhere near that. There is plenty of information out there, which we need to be far more forthright, transparent and candid about. Every single second of that flight needs to be examined up until it, theoretically, ended up in the Indian Ocean -- for which they still haven't found a trace, not even a seat cushion."

We have the biggest aviation mystery ever since, so the entire world should be HIGHLY interested in what happened to this flight? So the REAL big mystery is not the disappearence of MH370, the big mystery is: Why is the disappearence of MH370 not "examined with full transparency"? Let's ask the right question and do some calculus of probability afterwards: If we have the biggest aviation mystery in history, how likely is it, that it is not examined with full transparency?

[Edited 2014-11-19 01:33:00]
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:29 am

I will never say to know what has happened to MH370, all I do is questioning the right questions and doing some calculus of probability afterwards. This way clearly leads towards the scenario, that someone from outside (remote controlled) or from inside the aircraft took over control. According to the result of the mathematics (calculus of probability) there was no fire on board, no machanical failure, it was clearly human foul play!
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:30 am

Correction: Zaharie didn't write that poem. He posted it on his facebook account.
It was written circa 1896 by Sophie Jewett and titled "the Soldier."

http://www.sonnets.org/jewett.htm
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:33 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 11):
what would have been the - let's say best moment - to take over control? There is only ONE moment in the entire flight to take over control and in exactly THAT moment the disapperance began.

I, and many others, have always said that the timing of everything is the key.

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 13):
Now, i would submit to you (and you WILL disagree, as i of course expect, based on your proclivity to remaining open) that the other scenarios, aside from Zaharie, are just as implausible as Godzilla.

Some scenarios are more plausible / implausible than others - common sense.

Zaharie remains the most plausible scenario on my list. I'm not going to repeat why in every thread. But... no way is the Zaharie scenario beyond reasonable doubt. It's not even close. Having said that, I still think that a dozen or so scenarios could be possible - but that doesn't mean that I am saying they are as plausible as the Zaharie scenario - I'm just saying other scenarios are possible. Such scenarios have been discussed - such as the plane being somehow taken, or an electrical problem, or a smoke / small fire problem, or possibly a small explosion damaging electrics and eventually causing hypoxia (QF 30 is an example of a small explosion in which the plane was able to fly on. MH 370 could have had a small explosion with different results. It would explain the lack of debris near IGARI, possible hypoxia setting in, and also allow the plane to continue on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_30 )... Just because I might think that the Zaharie scenario is the most plausible does not mean that there are not any other plausible scenarios to me - there are plenty of less plausible scenarios... But there are also plenty of implausible scenarios too - like the Godzilla one you mention as well as the alien scenario or Pan Am 103 / TWA 800 massive explosion scenario or any scenario that brings MH370 down near IGARI...

If the plane is never found, will you still think that Zaharie did it? In years or decades from now? Will you still think that Zaharie made the plane vanish if not a shred of it is ever found? Or, will you have some doubt? Perhaps Zaharie should have been a Magician if he did it and it is never found...

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 13):
But only ONE train of events took place that morning.

Agreed!

There was only one chain of events. One truth...

Quoting EC135 (Reply 16):
ended up in the Indian Ocean -- for which they still haven't found a trace, not even a seat cushion

This is another important point that needs to be considered.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 17):
I will never say to know what has happened to MH370, all I do is questioning the right questions and doing some calculus of probability afterwards. This way clearly leads towards the scenario, that someone from outside (remote controlled) or from inside the aircraft took over control.

I still think that such a scenario is possible. After all, not a shred of the plane has been found, 8 months later...

Quoting tailskid (Reply 18):
Correction: Zaharie didn't write that poem. He posted it on his facebook account.
It was written circa 1896 by Sophie Jewett and titled "the Soldier."

No surprise there!

[Edited 2014-11-19 03:37:09]
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EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:46 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 19):
I, and many others, have always said that the timing of everything is the key.

I fully agree. We have to ask why the line of events started directly after saying "good bye" to Malaysian air control, not 3 minutes, not 5 minutes, not 10 minutes, not 15 minutes earlier or later. This is the key. A mechnical failure or a small bomb explosion or a fire wouldn't occur in this specific moment. If you do calculus of probability it is not fully impossible, but the probability is going that closely to zero, that you can rule it out.

[Edited 2014-11-19 05:34:41]
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:46 pm

Quoting tailskid (Reply 18):
Correction: Zaharie didn't write that poem. He posted it on his facebook account.
It was written circa 1896 by Sophie Jewett and titled "the Soldier."

Which obviously proves that all late 19th century female American poets were mass murderers.

You may wish to consult a dictionary for the meaning of "allegory".
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:14 pm

In case of the "taking over scenario" in which I have no doubt, another important key is the following. Has MH370 been taken over by

1) pilot and/or copilot / crew
2) Pax on board, e.g. intelligence agency special operation with false ID used at check-in
3) Remote controlled

I again refer to the interview published in German magazine Der Spiegel with Emirates CEO Sir Tim Clark:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-about-investigation-a-996212.html
"SPIEGEL ONLINE: [...] why would the pilots spend five hours heading straight towards Antarctica?
Clark: If they did!"

This is an important issue for cases 2+3, not for case 1. Why?
If pilot and/or copilot / crew took over control for whatever reason, the final destination must have been the South Indian Ocean as in this case we have no reason to doubt the INMARSAT data.

If case 2 or 3 are the possible take-over scenarios and like Mr. Clark said "If they did" [ended up in the Indian Ocean] which implies he is not sure about this, we strongly have to doubt the INMARSAT data to be correct as in both cases people with extremely good knowledge of programming would have taken over the plane in a time-gap where it would have easily been possible to hack and modify the INMARSAT data prior to anyone would have been notified of the MH370 disappearence at all.

[Edited 2014-11-19 05:37:29]
 
BG777300ER
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 20):
fully agree. We have to ask why the line of events started directly after saying "good bye" to Malaysian air control, not 3 minutes, not 5 minutes, not 10 minutes, not 15 minutes earlier or later. This is the key. A mechnical failure or a small bomb explosion or a fire wouldn't occur in this specific moment. If you do calculus of probability it is not fully impossible, but the probability is going that closely to zero, that you can rule it out.

While I respect your point, I completely disagree. How can you ignore something when you know there is a chance it happened? It is absolutely possible that it was coincidence something failed just after they said good night...

In addition, if someone was smart enough to hijack a plane like this and want to hide it, I'm pretty sure they would've have thought to themselves "hey wait a minute, it might be too obvious if we leave things off with 'good night' "

just my opinion.
 
YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 22):

In case of the "taking over scenario" in which I have no doubt, another important key is the following. Has MH370 been taken over by

1) pilot and/or copilot / crew
2) Pax on board, e.g. intelligence agency special operation with false ID used at check-in
3) Remote controlled

If your item 3) were the case, would it still require someone (hijackers) to be on board to disable the communication systems or prevent them from being used? Or would that then also be remotely controlled?

Let's say an airliner can be remotely flown, against the will of the flight deck crew, as is patented, would that include all communications equipment? If no, that equipment would have had to be manually disabled, from on board, and rather quickly, at the right moment as you correctly pointed out. Or else the crew would still have had the means to send a MAYDAY or at least let the world know that something is happening.
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:13 am

How about Captain Zaharie did it?

That would explain everything.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:51 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 22):
3) Remote controlled

It's amazing how many things are patented that never see the light of day either because they're not profitable or they just don't work. There are remote controlled airplanes out there but none of them are capable of carrying passengers, yet. When we get to single pilot operations it will be possible but will also have cockpit overrides. 1) is reasonable, 2) is not impossible, 3) in this case is absurd.
 
gzm
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:20 am

I still do not understand why the captain had to choose that specific moment.You think that just because it happened, it is incriminating? Why incriminate himself? To give us clues,bread crumbs? It can't be that simple, tailskid, don't you see?
If you insist that the decision came from the cockpit,then why not assume that a passenger with a weapon (any kind of weapon) forced the captain to change course.Why this insistence on blaming the captain? It is like playing your joker first in a game of cards...

[Edited 2014-11-19 21:22:45]
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:15 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 20):
We have to ask why the line of events started directly after saying "good bye" to Malaysian air control

You are assuming that it started after. It could have started before, without rising to a level of concern that would cause the crew to have anything but routine communications with controllers. We don't know!
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting gzm (Reply 27):
I still do not understand why the captain had to choose that specific moment.

Because at that moment (and only at that moment) he wasn't under the control of any ATC. This gave him two hours before an emergency was declared, and two hours after the turnaround he has scheduled himself to be out of range, to the west of Radar Unit 234 at Sibolga, North Sumatera which was the last radar to have had any possibility of seeing him. This plan all but guaranteed a successful disappearance.

There are some details missing about what he knew and how he knew, but he was completely accurate in his assumption that Malaysian radar would have an ineffectual response. Interestingly enough the Malaysians have thrown a dense cloak of obfuscation and secrecy over the westward leg of his flight. I would love to see this secrecy rolled back. If enough people demand it, it may happen some day.


Reasons why it couldn't be a passenger

All the passengers have been thoroughly vetted by now, nothing about the cabin crew has raised any eyebrows. If it was anybody from outside the flight deck, they weren't on the flight manifest, they would have to have have been hidden when the flight took off. We all know that is an impossibility.

If someone did attempt to force entry into the flight deck either the PF or the PM was tasked with sending a one word message to ATC. No such thing happened.

There would have been no way for anyone outside the flight deck to have been able to get the timing exactly right to have engineered a takeover at the exact time Zaharie had been signed off KLATCC but before he switched one switch and keyed the mike to log into HCMATCC.

Post 9-11 forced entry into a flight deck is very difficult as a result of airline procedures and the enhanced physical barrier



Remember Zaharie's plan is a failed plan, he didn't know about Inmarsat keeping their com link alive with hourly transactions. Were it not for Inmarsat, this would be a case of a plane and passengers just disappearing into thin air which would have a far greater psychological impact than the way things have developed.

I believe that there is a shoe which hasn't dropped yet. There is probably something else to Zaharie's plan that didn't work out as he had planned and I believe it may be linked to his certainty that the Malaysian radar response would be ineffectual. The continuing Malaysian secrecy regarding the first hour of time after the turnaround supports this premise. Hishammuddin is hiding something that Zaharie didn't think he would be able to hide. IMO
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:51 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
Hishammuddin is hiding something that Zaharie didn't think he would be able to hide. IMO

                 
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:10 am

Quoting bg777300er (Reply 23):
While I respect your point, I completely disagree. How can you ignore something when you know there is a chance it happened? It is absolutely possible that it was coincidence something failed just after they said good night...

I don't ignore other aspects or scenarios. The opposite is correct, I went through all scenarios, not only for one time, but in conclusion the possibility that other scenarios happened is that unlikely that you can rule them out. Just by doing mathematics. I explain it by doing an example: If you have a flight of let's say 8 hours or 480 minutes, how many minutes do you have to disappear or to steal the plane without leaving a trace? 10 minutes after take-off? Impossible! 5 minutes before landing? Impossible! Close to China? Impossible! Over Vietnam? Impossible! There is only a very very small gap in the entire flight and this is right after saying good bye to Malaysia, you have only this single one moment. Now we have to do some mathematics: Using the example, how likely is it, that a row of events starts at exactly that moment of the flight. 1:480 - And now, how often in history did the same failure-chain occur (ACARS off, Transponder off, still flying for hours...), just to get a number: 40000 planes with TT 20000 f/h or 1200000 f/m = 1:48000000000 that this failure occurs in that minute. So in conclusion, it must be a VERY VERY rare machanical failure as he occured for the first time in aviation history. How likely is it, that a failure THAT RARE occurs in exactly that one moment of the flight where you have the chance to disappear... So this is why I rule other things out. Just mathematics.
Quoting bg777300er (Reply 23):
In addition, if someone was smart enough to hijack a plane like this and want to hide it, I'm pretty sure they would've have thought to themselves "hey wait a minute, it might be too obvious if we leave things off with 'good night' "

I don't say it was the pilot, I just say someone took over control after switching off from Malaysian ATC, it was a very very well planned action, not a quick idea. Saying "good night" is a normal phrase and not suspicious in any way.

[Edited 2014-11-20 01:12:14]
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 24):
If your item 3) were the case, would it still require someone (hijackers) to be on board to disable the communication systems or prevent them from being used? Or would that then also be remotely controlled?
Let's say an airliner can be remotely flown, against the will of the flight deck crew, as is patented, would that include all communications equipment? If no, that equipment would have had to be manually disabled, from on board, and rather quickly, at the right moment as you correctly pointed out. Or else the crew would still have had the means to send a MAYDAY or at least let the world know that something is happening.

The communications equipment must have been disabled in this specific moment, too, if remote controlled from outside against the will of the crew. But this is a very unlikely scenario, or like 7BOEING7 replied, absurd. I don't think this happened.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 25):
How about Captain Zaharie did it?
That would explain everything.

If Zaharie did it, what happened to the co-pilot? Why didn't he sent a MAYDAY or interact? Has the voice of the person saying "all right, good night" been identified in the meantime? Couldn't be that difficult by asking relatives or using voice identification software. The voice identification is a key issue. BTW, the crew was nominated for this flight short before departure, wasn't it? We have to put a focus on the people on board and especially on the freight. The freight in another key issue, anything on board the shouldn't reach China?

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 26):
It's amazing how many things are patented that never see the light of day either because they're not profitable or they just don't work. There are remote controlled airplanes out there but none of them are capable of carrying passengers, yet. When we get to single pilot operations it will be possible but will also have cockpit overrides. 1) is reasonable, 2) is not impossible, 3) in this case is absurd.

Nothing to add, I fully agree.

Quoting gzm (Reply 27):
I still do not understand why the captain had to choose that specific moment.You think that just because it happened, it is incriminating? Why incriminate himself? To give us clues,bread crumbs? It can't be that simple, tailskid, don't you see?
If you insist that the decision came from the cockpit,then why not assume that a passenger with a weapon (any kind of weapon) forced the captain to change course.Why this insistence on blaming the captain? It is like playing your joker first in a game of cards...

Already answered by tailskid in Reply 29

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 28):
You are assuming that it started after. It could have started before, without rising to a level of concern that would cause the crew to have anything but routine communications with controllers. We don't know!

The planning must have started months before, the chain of reaction started right after switching off Malaysian ATC with turning off ACARS and so on... An interesting question would be to compare the exact time and geographical location of saying "all right good night" and switching off in the fatal MH370 to earlier MH370 routings, are there any abnormalities? Did they switch off some minutes earlier or later than usual?

[Edited 2014-11-20 00:59:05]
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:22 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
what happened to the co-pilot?

It would have been very easy for Zaharie to have sent Fariq into the cabin on some chore and then lock the door.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
Has the voice of the person saying "all right, good night" been identified in the meantime

Yes, that has been looked into, a group of four pilots who all knew Zaharie agreed that the voice saying "good night" was Zaharie's. That has been covered in this thread.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
The freight in another key issue, anything on board the shouldn't reach China?

The freight manifesto is another detail that the Malaysian government has chosen to keep secret.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
Did they switch off some minutes earlier or later than usual?

The release from Malaysian ATC was initiated by ATC, not the aircraft.
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:29 am

The most likely scenario: A very sensitive freight was loaded on MH370 that should never reach China but due to a leak some intelligence agencies became aware of that freight in beforehand. The only time the freight isn't guarded is during the flight. A special operation team with flying skills boarded MH370 under false ID and overwhelmed the crew shortly after reaching flying altitude. The two hijackers are now already in the cockpit waiting for that one moment to disappear. They then started the row of events to not be tracked that easily, incapacitated the pax, programmed the flight to the middle of nowhere and jumped off over Malaysia with the freight from a low altitude (therefore the decent) and leaving the plane on it's route to nowhere. Sounds a bit like out of a movie, but I guess this is not far from what might has happened on MH370.

[Edited 2014-11-20 02:25:32]
 
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pvjin
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:40 am

Quoting EC135 (Reply 34):

No, the most likely scenario is a mentally ill pilot who decided to exit this planet in a way that will be remembered. To make this case special he flew the aircraft to the Indian Ocean where it won't be found easily.

Some kind of a weird mechanical failure is another possibility.

Fancy conspiracies are always never what actually happened, real world is mostly boring.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 34):
. A special operation team with flying skills boarded MH370 under false ID and overwhelmed the crew shortly after reaching flying altitude.

And all that without anyone having time to inform the ATC or put the aircraft's transponder to "hijack" code? Not realistic at all.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 35):
No, the most likely scenario is a mentally ill pilot who decided to exit this planet in a way that will be remembered. To make this case special he flew the aircraft to the Indian Ocean where it won't be found easily.

And he decided to exit this planet on a flight he was only hours before informed to be on that flight. Hmmm.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 35):
Some kind of a weird mechanical failure is another possibility.

No, this can be ruled out as described in Reply 31

Quoting pvjin (Reply 35):
Fancy conspiracies are always never what actually happened, real world is mostly boring.

Yes, real world is that boring, that Mr. Litwinenko was killed by using Plutonium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

Quoting pvjin (Reply 35):
And all that without anyone having time to inform the ATC or put the aircraft's transponder to "hijack" code? Not realistic at all.

By using the right type of weapon no problem at all...

[Edited 2014-11-20 01:59:11]
 
mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:58 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 200):
you resent any recognition of the obvious fact that he hijacked his own airliner and murdered 238 innocent people, now want all the evidence in the public domain raked through here once again pointing out what a nutcase the actual man was.

Where is the evidence beyond reasonable doubt? How does the satcom going on and off be explained? I know nutcases who would have made easier targets to blame than Zaharie, talks crazier than him, but place him at the moment of truth, they all try to save the plane... If Zaharie was unlike them, then you as the person who accuse him of such crime, must be able to provide evidence beyond reasonable doubt, otherwise, you have no place to criticize those who do not think he did it!

Same with putting the FO... without evidence beyond reasonable doubt, there is no basis other than pure and simple discussion to say that Zaharie did it or the FO did it. If you want to go beyond "discussions" (ie: putting it as fact) that Zaharie did it, again, where's the evidence.

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 205):
I looked back into the thread and aside from what Mandala499 said (something about his mother forbidding him to marry his pilot lover), his only other 'demons' and 'skeletons' I was able to uncover were his smoking on the flight deck and affection for western appearing women.

What I said is that the FO's reasons could be "as simple as that"... especially if you know the girl and the malay bureaucrat family... wouldn't be surprised if it had been true...

Quoting tailskid (Reply 7):
I hpoe you know a little more about Captain Z after reading that.

I've recited stuff that are a lot worse... Hey, I didn't go and hack the pilot to death on my last flight when I was sitting next to an axe and a blunt object capable of incapacitating him... (oh, yes, flew next to some "nice buildings" that would have made spectacular crashes too!)...

Geez...

Quoting tailskid (Reply 25):
How about Captain Zaharie did it?

That would explain everything.

I would have loved to be minister of propaganda had you lived in a country with one...   

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
Because at that moment (and only at that moment) he wasn't under the control of any ATC. This gave him two hours before an emergency was declared, and two hours after the turnaround he has scheduled himself to be out of range, to the west of Radar Unit 234 at Sibolga, North Sumatera which was the last radar to have had any possibility of seeing him. This plan all but guaranteed a successful disappearance.

The military radar in Sibolga was not the north western most military radar. Sorry. Try another unit.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
All the passengers have been thoroughly vetted by now, nothing about the cabin crew has raised any eyebrows. If it was anybody from outside the flight deck, they weren't on the flight manifest, they would have to have have been hidden when the flight took off. We all know that is an impossibility.

Which makes it "extremely unlikely", but not absolutely definite that it couldn't have been a passenger.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
If someone did attempt to force entry into the flight deck either the PF or the PM was tasked with sending a one word message to ATC. No such thing happened.

How about rogue passengers gaining control of the cabin and then going into the avionics bay and pulling the right CBs from there... ever thought of that?

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
Remember Zaharie's plan is a failed plan, he didn't know about Inmarsat keeping their com link alive with hourly transactions. Were it not for Inmarsat, this would be a case of a plane and passengers just disappearing into thin air which would have a far greater psychological impact than the way things have developed.

If he didn't know about the inmarsat comlink, then please, again, explain why there was a re-logon at 1825UTC?
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
liquidair
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:35 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 14):

Wow. Just wow.

First you come along offering detailed analysis to provide proof of fashion of MH370's demise.

Then you return with some overly contrived teenage angsty sarcastic posts about the captain, throwing in an obvious dose of Star Trek style Shakespeare quoting.

Then you accuse posters and contributors of implied idiocy by not crucifying the captain immediately, with no proof whatsoever of anything.

Sir/madam,

I tip my hat to thee. For a troll extraordinaire of this magnitude has yet to be seen here on ANet (even nav 20/30 seems logical in comparison).

Frankly, said posts are like ill placed jokes without a punch line.... Just a bit tragic.

Anyway, let me go fish out my Picard double face palm meme...
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:46 am

Quoting bg777300er (Reply 23):
How can you ignore something when you know there is a chance it happened? It is absolutely possible that it was coincidence something failed just after they said good night...

This point is very valid - anything that is possible based on what is known cannot be ruled out.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 25):
How about Captain Zaharie did it?

Where are the debris? Anything? Unless he ditched it well and the plane mostly stayed in large pieces that sank... If so, assume he ditched just before fuel ran out to have the most control - with engines running. Would that mean that the final ping would have been sent at the moment it hit the water (and at the exact location of impact) when in a sense everything would just stop working all of a sudden? If so, the final ping could indiacte the time of impact - not the time a long glide from altitude commenced after the engines ran out of fuel and shut down... Perhaps the final ping was not when the engines stopped running at whatever altitude it was at and hence there was no long glide in who knows what direction (you know - the educated guess the number crunchers are basing the search area on). If it was ditched with engines running would that be the time of the final ping?

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 28):
Quoting EC135 (Reply 20):
We have to ask why the line of events started directly after saying "good bye" to Malaysian air control

You are assuming that it started after. It could have started before, without rising to a level of concern that would cause the crew to have anything but routine communications with controllers. We don't know!

It could have started before. Correct.

Somebody could have been in the cockpit telling the pilots what to do / say (if it was intentional).

This is why I would have liked it if Zaharie's voice was compared to his voice from recorded ATC hand-offs from other past flights. To see if his voice seemed stressed or different in any way to how it usually sounds during a normal hand-off... If only there were CCTV cameras in cockpits that downloaded footage in real time as well as the CVR / FDR data - we would pretty much know what happened...

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
Reasons why it couldn't be a passenger

All the passengers have been thoroughly vetted by now, nothing about the cabin crew has raised any eyebrows.

That's doesn't mean much at all.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 29):
I believe that there is a shoe which hasn't dropped yet. There is probably something else to Zaharie's plan that didn't work out as he had planned and I believe it may be linked to his certainty that the Malaysian radar response would be ineffectual. The continuing Malaysian secrecy regarding the first hour of time after the turnaround supports this premise. Hishammuddin is hiding something that Zaharie didn't think he would be able to hide. IMO

If Zaharie did it, perhaps part of his plan was to get shot down by Malaysian fighter jets? If this happened, that would have made the government look much worse than they look now. They would have shot down one of their own planes. But, if that is what he wanted, he most likely would have flown a different route - a more threatening route - like towards KL.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
The voice identification is a key issue.
Quoting tailskid (Reply 33):
Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
Has the voice of the person saying "all right, good night" been identified in the meantime

Yes, that has been looked into, a group of four pilots who all knew Zaharie agreed that the voice saying "good night" was Zaharie's. That has been covered in this thread.

The voice was also confirmed as being that of Zaharies by his wife.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 33):
Quoting EC135 (Reply 32):
The freight in another key issue, anything on board the shouldn't reach China?

The freight manifesto is another detail that the Malaysian government has chosen to keep secret.

It sure is, which is why the plane being taken scenarios remain a possibility to me.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 34):
The most likely scenario: A very sensitive freight was loaded on MH370 that should never reach China but due to a leak some intelligence agencies became aware of that freight in beforehand. The only time the freight isn't guarded is during the flight. A special operation team with flying skills boarded MH370 under false ID and overwhelmed the crew shortly after reaching flying altitude. The two hijackers are now already in the cockpit waiting for that one moment to disappear. They then started the row of events to not be tracked that easily, incapacitated the pax, programmed the flight to the middle of nowhere and jumped off over Malaysia with the freight from a low altitude (therefore the decent) and leaving the plane on it's route to nowhere. Sounds a bit like out of a movie, but I guess this is not far from what might has happened on MH370.

Finally a new scenario! Yay!

Perhaps the person who called Zaharie to come to work that night was in on it? They were told to put him (someone with a background) there as they knew about him and that he would attract a lot of heat with his background as well as the Anwar verdict.

[Edited 2014-11-20 03:53:20]

[Edited 2014-11-20 03:56:44]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:12 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 39):
This is why I would have liked it if Zaharie's voice was compared to his voice from recorded ATC hand-offs from other past flights. To see if his voice seemed stressed or different in any way to how it usually sounds during a normal hand-off...

Exactly.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 39):
Has the voice of the person saying "all right, good night" been identified in the meantimeYes, that has been looked into, a group of four pilots who all knew Zaharie agreed that the voice saying "good night" was Zaharie's. That has been covered in this thread.The voice was also confirmed as being that of Zaharies by his wife.

And in case of an operation done a task force, remember that these last words "allright, good night" could also have been recorded earlier and sent from tape... What is the usual phrase used by Mr. Zaharie on handover? When and from what destination was Mr. Zaharie's last known flight before MH370? Who was responsible that Mr. Zaharie was chosen for that flight? Was he the only MH777 captain available in KL for this flight?

[Edited 2014-11-20 04:21:49]
 
YoungMans
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:21 pm

There is something I meant to ask for while now but I'm not sure this is the right thread.
Here goes anyway ...

9M-MRO - As flight MH370 this aircraft disappeared mysteriously
9M-MRD - As flight MH17 this aircraft was shot down in suspect circumstances
9M-MRI - This aircraft was parked up in Israel, prior to MH370
9M-MRC - This aircraft looks much like the others

Why does 9M-MRD have xx-xRC written on the front wheel doors?
Were the planes swapped but they forgot to change the front stickers?

The question (comment) has come up before in these threads whether planes (9M-MRO and MRD) were swapped for some inexplicable reason. (Not that I could think of any...)

What happened to 9M-MRC? Is it still flying?
Maybe they took the front wheel doors from this aircraft and put them onto MRD? Would they do that?
Maybe it was a last minute repair and they forgot about the stickers?

Or was the RC (in the last photo of 9M-MRD) photo-shopped? If so, it would seem a good job; but why?

What happened to 9M-MRI?
Has it in any way anything to do with the combined saga of two lost aircraft?

Below are relevant URL's.


9M-MRD
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=063a301846b4dc0fbc221054b296d930
Note the full and correct registration near the tail but xx-xRC on the front wheel door ..!!! Why??

9M-MRO
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=16b87fd1f3eb7e7556d238c63d66451f

9M-MRI
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=7770cc69ea88c28d7a67bf4570d44a86

9M-MRC
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Malay...d=897693bf0a9348574e09789c3189d9d9

[Edited 2014-11-20 04:25:12]

[Edited 2014-11-20 04:25:44]
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 41):
Or was the RC (in the last photo of 9M-MRD) photo-shopped? If so, it would seem a good job; but why?
What happened to 9M-MRI?

Nothing suspicious so far with 9M-MRD, the letter that definetely looks like a "C" is only a faded "D", everythings o.k.

[Edited 2014-11-20 04:54:35]
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:55 pm

Quoting YoungMans (Reply 41):
What happened to 9M-MRC? Is it still flying?

MRC is still flying.

According to flightaware it is being used as one would normally expect:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/9MMRC

I have been looking at various pics of MRD and it seems that the middle right hand side of the 'D' has faded to make it look like a 'C'.

There are some interesting comments on that most recent pic of MRD though...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting EC135 (Reply 34):
The most likely scenario: A very sensitive freight was loaded on MH370 that should never reach China but due to a leak some intelligence agencies became aware of that freight in beforehand........

Only in the movies. Was the freight in the passenger cabin? If not how did they get to it, cut through the floor with the "jaws of life" they had in their carry-on baggage? Since the airplane couldn't fly as far as the present search area at low altitude how did they get it to climb back up? How did they get the door closed, somebody volunteer to stay behind? Way to many holes -- theory disregarded.
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:17 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 46):
Only in the movies. Was the freight in the passenger cabin? If not how did they get to it, cut through the floor with the "jaws of life" they had in their carry-on baggage?

Maybe the sensitive freight was left on board... The hijackers flew the plane to a remote and difficult to reach area where the sensitive freight was taken out by military divers until the ditched 777 sank. I wouldn't wonder if the 777 ditched and sank near the deepest point of the Indian Ocean... Floating pieces could have been taken onboard a ship to make it difficult to find its final position. And btw the Malaysians do hide something, why have they put all search efforts to the South China Sea for almost 1 week even they knew the plane turned around !?

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 46):
Since the airplane couldn't fly as far as the present search area at low altitude how did they get it to climb back up? How did they get the door closed, somebody volunteer to stay behind? Way to many holes -- theory disregarded.

Programming the flight computer prior getting off the plane, shouldn't be that difficult. But it is more likely they stayed on board until reaching the final destination in the South Indian Ocean.

[Edited 2014-11-20 08:57:37]
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting EC135 (Reply 47):
Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 46):Only in the movies. Was the freight in the passenger cabin? If not how did they get to it, cut through the floor with the "jaws of life" they had in their carry-on baggage?
Maybe the sensitive freight was left on board...

And maybe there were special forces ready to go at a minutes notice in Malaysia. And maybe, and maybe. Maybe we ought to start another topic "Most Imaginative MH370 Disappearance Movie Idea".

Quoting EC135 (Reply 47):
Programming the flight computer prior getting off the plane, shouldn't be that difficult.

You'd have to start the climb before you jumped out -- that's workable. But, I still have a problem with how you get out of the airplane. You can depressurize and slow down but you still may not be able to get a door open far enough to bail out. Even when the Norwegian Special Forces jumped out of the Busy Bee 737 the door was removed before flight if I remember correctly.
 
EC135
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 46):
Most Imaginative MH370 Disappearance Movie Idea

Let's put the movies beside. What do you think happened to MH370?

By the way, we have a missing 777 for now 9 month that has been taken over by someone and an airline that doesn't reveal the cargo manifest and sends all search efforts to a wrong destination for one week even they knew the plane turned around, so how big is the distance between reality and the "most imaginative MH370 disappearance movie idea"?

[Edited 2014-11-20 10:24:22]
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:37 pm

Quoting EC135 (Reply 47):
Let's put the movies beside. What do you think happened to MH370?

Some person (captain, copilot, terrorist) flew the airplane to where he expected it not to be found. If somebody has another realistic and specific scenario that explains what we think we know I'm willing to listen.

Quoting EC135 (Reply 47):
By the way, we have a missing 777 for now 9 month that has been taken over by someone and an airline that doesn't reveal the cargo manifest and sends all search efforts to a wrong destination for one week even they knew the plane turned around, so how big is the distance between reality and the "most imaginative MH370 disappearance movie idea"?

I think you and others are reading too much into these issues. The Malaysians were not prepared for this nor were they ready to have people sticking cameras and microphones in their face and asking questions.
 
YoungMans
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:31 am

RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 Missing KUL-PEK Part 73

Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 46):
And maybe, and maybe. Maybe we ought to start another topic "Most Imaginative MH370 Disappearance Movie Idea".
Quoting EC135 (Reply 47):
Let's put the movies beside. What do you think happened to MH370?

Many assumptions have been made on these threads and many scenarios have been thought through, properly; much of that was done by the professionals on these threads from the aviation industry. All to no avail; in the sense that no single chain of events can be worked out with certainty.

There seem to be two fundamental possibilities. Either 9M-MRO ..:
1) Has crashed in the Indian Ocean, as it is widely theorised. Or ....
2) The aircraft was flown undetected to an unknown destination for specific reasons.

Someone who puts 1) into question, in his recent interview, is Tim Clark.
A statement to that effect from a person like him does carry substantial weight.

Item 2) is generally frowned upon, here on A.net, especially amongst the aviation professionals.
That is understandable, because, if it were the case, it would show up two different problems, truths:
a) The disappearance would turn out much worse than the mysterious loss it already is.
b) It would show that the authorities have been far from truthful and may be deliberately lying and hiding facts.

So the question, at this stage, is not the exact details of how things happened but should be a search for indicators that will tell us with a level of confidence whether it is either 1) or 2).

As it was established here already:
There can have been only one chain of events!

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