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FARmd90
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FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:29 am

Hello, longtime follower first time poster here.

The recent thread on why there isn't any FAR-IAH service isn't offered inspired me to start this general topic thread on FAR and the Dakota's.
This past October FAR just celebrated its 22nd consecutive month of enplanement record breaking. http://fargoairport.com/news/Oct14Stats.html with that what might the future be looking for Fargo?
New service or just increasing existing service through up-gages and added frequencies? Also in October Fargo celebrated the 30th anniversary of UA service to the region. With that in mind what could we see from UA here?
FAR-IAH seems out of the question for now Why No IAH-FAR On UA Or UA Express? (by 1337Delta764 Nov 18 2014 in Civil Aviation) , but what about up-gages in aircraft? I find it hard to believe the second biggest player in the market here cant fill a crj-700 once a day to either DEN or ORD. But it also seems like
UA is also losing market share here while others are gaining.

What might be some other future routes Fargo could see or are "holes" in its network?

As for the western half of ND, how are things going out there? The airlines happy with what's being shown, new routes, more frequencies?

While I don't follow western ND or SD as closely as my hometown, I feel like this area is seeing great growth over all and was curious to see what the future holds for these regions!

Thanks again!!!
 
runningonempty
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:14 am

Although I've nothing much to contribute regarding Dakotas commercial ops, I must say this is a good idea for a thread. Welcome to the board!

I wonder if the population in the Dakotas are on the rise? Does population have anything to do with it, or could it be more tourism (not sure what's there)...

I'm just curious if we can add Idaho to the mix. I've always pondered why they can't do a Saturday BOI-JFK/LGA(NY market). Boise is a fairly decent sized populous and the once daily to a connectable airport such as LGA could do quite well. I would imagine if anyone tried it, it would be DL.
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:26 am

Sure we can Idaho!
And as far as what's here for tourism... honestly nothing. Its flat, windy and cold lol. Seriously though it seems like its mostly Canadians that come down and go shopping in GFK and FAR. Otherwise outside of the area there is a few national and state parks to visit and that's about it.
There is also other stuff further out but better served by other airports instead of driving forever.

And the population is growing like crazy in ND at least (not sure about other area's) the western half was just reported to have rent that costs more than NYC!!! and Fargo seems like they also cant keep building fast enough, but seems to be doing a good job at keeping up.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 1):

Assuming it would be on DL, it just makes sense to connect the passengers in SLC or MSP.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 1):
I've always pondered why they can't do a Saturday BOI-JFK/LGA(NY market). Boise is a fairly decent sized populous and the once daily to a connectable airport such as LGA could do quite well. I would imagine if anyone tried it, it would be DL.

A Saturday only flight would be the only way LGA would work, and by work I mean be able to operate. LGA has a perimeter restriction of 1,500 miles Sunday-Fridays. Denver and Salt Lake won expeditions in court. As such, I don't see the yield from Boise to LGA substantial enough to operate such a long stage flight for one day a week.

As for JFK, I can't see DL use a precious slot being devoted to BOI, even if not daily.

Possibly a seasonal BOI-EWR on UA, but even that is a long shot.
 
Bingo1
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 1):
I wonder if the population in the Dakotas are on the rise? Does population have anything to do with it, or could it be more tourism (not sure what's there)...

There's oil in the western part and oil brings business travelers. Lots of em..

I could maybe see the the AA DFW flight being upgraded from an EMB145 to a CR7 or adding another daily flight. I don't have any numbers to back this up.

I'm surprised at the success of the DL SLC flight. Will DL add SEA? I highly doubt it but if there is a market they have a lot of loyalty in FAR already and the only direct west coast flights are via Allegiant. On the other hand there is lots of other competition to the west coast with UA, DL, and F9 all making the west coast accessible through their respective western hubs.


Why is F9 quitting MOT? Poor load factors or better utilization of aircraft elsewhere? How long will FAR be able to keep F9?
Planecrzy
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:15 am

There was a great article in the last AOPA magazine about the oil boom in Williston and its effects on aviation there.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2014/November/Pilot/f_boom

The article mentions a new direct flight from ISN to IAH, although I don't seem to be finding it at the moment. The picture of the ramp there is unbelievable compared to what it used to be; just a sleepy little airport.

What will be interesting is if oil prices stay down for an extended period and crushes some of the oil boom.
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KLASM83
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:34 am

As a GFK based person, myself, I love this thread.

It's amazing to see the West part of the state spool up so quickly due to oil. While it leaves eastern ND quite comfy, too, we are getting unprecedented aviation opportunities. I would have never thought sleepy ISN and DIK would see a UA flight to IAH. However, that was 5 years ago, and here I am: wrong.

I think with the 64th State Legislative session looming on us, it would be wise for them to invest more on studies and giving the State Aeronautics Commission more resources to assist the airports in the state.

The ND State Pavement Condition Update indicates that, system wide, there is approximately $110 million needed (in 2013) to fix our state's airport infrastructure. The oil region alone makes almost $23 million of that need.

Luckily, most of the western airports are in good condition. However, GFK has a multitude of bad spots, along with FAR.

We shall see how things play out in the Flickertail state.
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azstar
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:55 pm

Here's some information from the Fargo Airport website.

Airline passenger traffic in October at Hector International Airport showed an increase as compared to the same month in 2013. In October 2014, the passenger enplanements were 36,633. This is an increase of 16.5% when compared to the October 2013 passenger enplanements of 31,445.This was the busiest October on record. The previous record was set in 2013. This is the 22nd consecutive month of an enplanement record being set.Total passenger count for the month was 72,049, which is up 16.5% over the same period last year.

Also, the airport has an 86% year-to-date load factor of all the scheduled airline flights.

Airline/ Market Share / Emplanement Change from Oct 2013

DL 47% 24%
UA 21% -1%
G4 13% 28%
AA 13% 16%
F9 6% 12%

My personal experience flying to FAR for work on UA has been horrible. I was commuting there about twice a month from my home in TUS and I can't count the number of times my DEN-FAR flight was delayed, by hours, due to "late arrival of aircraft", "late arriving crew", "maintenance". That may explain UA's drop in market share while all other airlines increased theirs.

[Edited 2014-11-19 07:00:10]
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting azstar (Reply 8):
My personal experience flying to FAR for work on UA has been horrible. I was commuting there about twice a month from my home in TUS and I can't count the number of times my DEN-FAR flight was delayed, by hours, due to "late arrival of aircraft", "late arriving crew", "maintenance". That may explain UA's drop in market share while all other airlines increased theirs.

I see that also on the flight stats for FAR that UA seems to be the problem child when it comes to on time performance into the airport, hopefully that will change.
And I will admit that while I only fly once a year or so from this airport I follow it very closely.

Quoting KLASM83 (Reply 7):
Luckily, most of the western airports are in good condition. However, GFK has a multitude of bad spots, along with FAR.

Interesting that you say that. I know FAR completed a runway re-furb in 2004 for the main runway (not sure how long a runway lasts), they recently expanded their terminal apron in 2013 and they are now building a new taxiway into the terminal area itself.

Quoting Bingo1 (Reply 5):
Why is F9 quitting MOT? Poor load factors or better utilization of aircraft elsewhere? How long will FAR be able to keep F9?

I don't know why F9 would be quitting MOT, maybe just to much pressure from the other airlines or not enough space. But as for FAR I feel like they are happy here, in the summer months we usually get 4 daily from DEN (used to be 3) and then back down to 3 in the winter. So I think they will stay as long as they are happy with what they are getting.

Does anyone know how AA is doing with the FAR-DFW flight? Looking at seat maps online (yes I know not the best indicator) the flight always seems to be full, would a second daily be in the future?

Quoting Bingo1 (Reply 5):
I'm surprised at the success of the DL SLC flight

Delta seems to be rocking in this market and I'm sure in other Dakota markets as well. This year DL has been pretty consistent with sending two mailine to FAR all year (which never happens) while still keeping the same schedule and frequencies as the previous years.
And regarding the FAR-ATL, does anyone know how that's doing? Its been Saturday only service from the beginning but went year round right away. Will anymore frequencies be added or does it look like it will be 1 daily for awhile?

[Edited 2014-11-19 11:19:11]
 
azstar
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 9):
However, GFK has a multitude of bad spots, along with FAR.

The FAR airport seems to be in better condition than many other airports I've visited, even those in more hospitable climates. From a passenger perspective it seems pretty good.
 
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treebeard787
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting azstar (Reply 10):
Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 9):
However, GFK has a multitude of bad spots, along with FAR.

The FAR airport seems to be in better condition than many other airports I've visited, even those in more hospitable climates. From a passenger perspective it seems pretty good.

I would agree with that. I fly in there 1-2 times a year, and I find it to be a very good facility, especially when you factor in the harsh winters up there.

My most recent trip there was in October, I flew on DL via MSP, and it was on a completely full A320. The growth in the Fargo region has been pretty impressive in my opinion.
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FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:20 pm

So what else could be in store for this region? More airlines entering the market? LCC/ULCC expansion?
 
chrisp390
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:17 pm

I am surprised WS or AC don't fly a regional aircraft to YYC, seems like there is enought traffic between the two due to the oil boom
 
runningonempty
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 12):

So what else could be in store for this region? More airlines entering the market? LCC/ULCC expansion?

Ehhh, it's not MCI or CLE or CVG level in the slightest. It's growing, but slowly, and mostly business oriented traffic. Not as much VFR and certainly not much tourist traffic. I would personally love to visit the Dakota's, and think that an F9/NK could maybe drive up some awareness of the city with some LTD service to major cities.

I mean, its a stretch, but I think that DL could support some Saturday only at least from FSD to JFK/LGA service on a CR7 or even better a E75. They see over 55 O&D pax each day on routings to NYC airports. More likely such a type on a FSD-LAX run. They see almost 80 pax O&D daily on the LAX routing.
 
RushmoreAir
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 14):
certainly not much tourist traffic.

Well maybe our northern neighbors don't see too many tourists . . .   

As for western SD, Mt. Rushmore and five other NPS sites draw in ~3 million tourists annually to the Black Hills, and we get ~400k bikers annually that come in for the Sturgis motorcycle rally. So we do attract fair bit of seasonal tourism/VFR traffic - RAP goes from ~15k monthly enplanements Jan-Feb to 30k+ monthly enplanements during Jun-Aug.

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 12):
So what else could be in store for this region? More airlines entering the market? LCC/ULCC expansion?

As far as RAP goes, we received a SCASD grant this year to expand the 1x weekly seasonal DL service to ATL (utilizing CR7s) to year round service with added frequency. So this will most likely be the next development in terms of new/added service.

There's also a possibility of G4 to SFB once more Airbii come online.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
Bingo1
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:12 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 13):
I am surprised WS or AC don't fly a regional aircraft to YYC, seems like there is enought traffic between the two due to the oil boom

If WS or AC fly a regional into ND it would be ISN or MOT. On the other hand MOT is only 4 hrs from YQR and ISN only 3.5 hrs.
Planecrzy
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:53 pm

Even if there was a market for ISN/MOT-Canada. Could those airports even take an international flight? Any customs/facilities for it?
I feel like FAR might be the only airport that can take international passengers due to a full service U.S. customs facility
 
azstar
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 17):
I feel like FAR might be the only airport that can take international passengers due to a full service U.S. customs facility

FAR was a stop on the YWG-MSP route for decades until jet aircraft made it impractical. I doubt there was much demand for YWG-FAR alone.
 
chrisp390
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 17):

If you left from YYC and had preclearance it shouldnt matter though?
 
Bingo1
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:52 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 13):
I am surprised WS or AC don't fly a regional aircraft to YYC, seems like there is enought traffic between the two due to the oil boom

In an earlier post I questioned the traffic volume on that route but if it was to start the plane that might make the most sense would be the ZX B1900. But YYC -ISN is an awful long flight (820 KM or 510 miles) in a B1900.
Planecrzy
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:09 am

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 2):
Fargo seems like they also cant keep building fast enough, but seems to be doing a good job at keeping up.

Similar to here in Grand Forks. They can't get apartment buildings up fast enough.

Quoting Bingo1 (Reply 5):
How long will FAR be able to keep F9?

I think it's tough to compare FAR and MOT. FAR can pull from Grand Forks, Jamestown, Northern Minnesota. MOT doesn't really have any big areas to pull from besides the oil fields. But even with the oil fields BIS can cover the area pretty well.

Quoting KLASM83 (Reply 7):
As a GFK based person, myself, I love this thread.

Ah a fellow Grand Forksian!

Quoting KLASM83 (Reply 7):
However, GFK has a multitude of bad spots, along with FAR.

The taxiways at GFK are all pretty good with the exception of Uniform(time to fix that darn drop abeam the hangar). But the bad spots seem to be either areas that are not used much/at all and charlie ramp. Charlie Ramp though in the grand scheme of things really isn't that bad.

Quoting azstar (Reply 10):
The FAR airport seems to be in better condition than many other airports I've visited, even those in more hospitable climates. From a passenger perspective it seems pretty good.

They do a really superb job of keeping the facility up. For sure one of my favorite spots to fly into as a pilot.

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 12):
So what else could be in store for this region? More airlines entering the market? LCC/ULCC expansion?

I think the region needs to worry more about getting sustained mainline, before LCC/ULCC enter. If you really look at the service across the state it's a mix of CRJ2, E135/145, and CRJ7s. FAR has some mainline. But not a whole lot. I could see WN at FAR down the road. But the market needs to continue to mature before that can happen.

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 14):
It's growing, but slowly, and mostly business oriented traffic.

It's growing at a pretty good clip actually. Especially when compared to most of the country. 10% YOY growth isn't small.

Quoting RushmoreAir (Reply 15):
As for western SD, Mt. Rushmore and five other NPS sites draw in ~3 million tourists annually to the Black Hills, and we get ~400k bikers annually that come in for the Sturgis motorcycle rally. So we do attract fair bit of seasonal tourism/VFR traffic - RAP goes from ~15k monthly enplanements Jan-Feb to 30k+ monthly enplanements during Jun-Aug.

Western SD pulls in a lot of tourism, but it isn't Florida like tourism. As in, people don't generally fly there. The black hills and MT Rushmore is one of those American family drive type of vacations. You don't get the same experience flying into RAP. Again with Sturgis, any motorcycle aficionado isn't going to fly. They're going to ride their hog. People do fly, as the numbers show. But they have a difference circumstance.

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 17):
Even if there was a market for ISN/MOT-Canada. Could those airports even take an international flight? Any customs/facilities for it?
I feel like FAR might be the only airport that can take international passengers due to a full service U.S. customs facility

GFK can process international passengers as well. But there is no formal facility like in MSP or other major international airports.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
azstar
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:02 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 21):
I think it's tough to compare FAR and MOT

Minot metro area= 69,959
Fargo metro area=223,490
 
Bingo1
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:28 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 21):
I think it's tough to compare FAR and MOT. FAR can pull from Grand Forks, Jamestown, Northern Minnesota. MOT doesn't really have any big areas to pull from besides the oil fields. But even with the oil fields BIS can cover the area pretty well.

Before the Bakken rush MOT shamelessly advertised itself as an airport for the Canadian population and Canadians used it. For virtually anyone in southeastern part of Saskatchewan and for sure the western half of Manitoba it was the best option for USA flights. A lot of folk in the western half of Manitoba were actually closer to MOT than YWG. When MOT finished their new airport around the late 90's early 2000's they put up a banner that summed it up very well. "Thanks Canadians".

Obviously BIS isn't covering the area good enough enough. According to my calculations BIS is on pace for about 235K passengers and MOT 220K. Considering that not that long ago MOT was a quarter the size of BIS, this is impressive.
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FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:28 pm

Well it looks like F9 is not only leaving MOT but also exiting FAR after April 29
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:44 pm

Looking at AA's desktop timetable, it looks like AA will be running a second daily on DFW-FAR from Dec. 18- Jan. 5. All on the ERJ-145.
The new flight will be;
DFW-FAR
20:15-22:53

FAR-DFW
6:15-9:15
Great to see AA expanding the market even if it is only for the holiday rush!!! (Great times also) Hopefully it will stick around in the future!

[Edited 2014-12-03 10:45:41]
 
bjorn14
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:29 pm

Did Wiliston ever get their new tarmac built?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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KLASM83
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:39 pm

Looks like the UND Apron at GFK is a priority for rehabilitation, at least per Governor Dalrymple's budget address to the joint House and Senate Session yesterday.

It's going to cost a whopping $16 million to get that baby built. Cement isn't cheap.

Now, for the big question-is the Legislature actually going to fund it all? This proposed budget is already $2.5 billion bigger than last time (now at $15 billion), and I can say some of this will be a tough sell to a group who has historically tended to not be of the spendy types.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 21):

GFK can process international passengers as well. But there is no formal facility like in MSP or other major international airports.

Most airplanes need to park by OPS and be cleared, so for the 2 guys there, it's not too bad if a Citation comes by, but if we get anything bigger, it's going to take a while.
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FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:55 pm

I was looking at flight aware's live map of BIS and saw the at American Eagle now has a flight to ORD. And sure enough it comes up on the AA website.
When did this start? Wasn't much talk of an announcement.

And there is also a BIS-DFW flight, again when did this one start? How are the flights doing?

[Edited 2014-12-05 11:57:47]
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:49 pm

BIS guy here  
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 21):
. Again with Sturgis, any motorcycle aficionado isn't going to fly. They're going to ride their hog. People do fly, as the numbers show. But they have a difference circumstance.

Actually what a lot of people do is ship their bike and fly themselves. There are companies specializing in shipping motorcycles and you pick it up at RAP. I worked for DL there during Sturgis a few years ago and it was crazy busy with every flight severely oversold. Also kinda funny to check ID and you'll have some professional looking businessman in the DL photo and biker guy in front of you  
Quoting Bingo1 (Reply 23):
When MOT finished their new airport around the late 90's early 2000's they put up a banner that summed it up very well. "Thanks Canadians".

They still have signs around town at various businesses about Canadians  https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/149440_10100172374747060_1037257798_n.jpg?oh=077bd371227926c942bd452be72be701&oe=5506BA4C&__gda__=1426756039_2236e55652ed6da0715dab3c5d1b76e9

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 28):

I was looking at flight aware's live map of BIS and saw the at American Eagle now has a flight to ORD. And sure enough it comes up on the AA website.
When did this start? Wasn't much talk of an announcement.

And there is also a BIS-DFW flight, again when did this one start? How are the flights doing?

They both started in October.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 29):

Awesome! Great to see BIS get some new air service and a new airline!!
 
Bingo1
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:57 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 29):
They still have signs around town at various businesses about Canadians

Back when it took about 1.30 CAD to make 1 USD one motel in Minot across from the airport charged the same rate in CAD or USD. Was always cheaper to pay in CAD, naturally.
Planecrzy
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:54 pm

Looks like FAR has done it again, and broke a November boarding record! http://fargoairport.com/news/Nov14Stats.html (Their 23rd consecutive month of record breaking)
Congratulations to them and hopefully we keep seeing boarding records broken, and also having a 86% load factor on all commercial flights!
 
azstar
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:01 pm

All airlines traffic up YOY except UA & G4. G4 seats change frequently with demand but UA seat inventory remains fairly constant so they are losing actual market share. Looks like F9 leaving in May next year but that may help DL more than UA.

[Edited 2014-12-12 15:02:50]
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:59 am

It is kind of sad to see UA loosing market share (or at least looks that way) while the other airlines are growing and posting some good numbers, hopefully UA can change that around before it is to late for them.
And with F9 leaving in May, I'm sure DL will be the big winner with that.
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:58 pm

On another note, it looks like GFK had a slight decrease in passanger numbers for the month of November. http://gfkairport.com/facts-statistics/ for emplaned passengers.

2013: 12,865
2014: 12,704
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:26 pm

Looks like there is a movement going to preserve Hangar 5 at BIS and possibly making it into an air museum.

Bismarck Air Foundation interested in preserving Hangar No. 5

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/kaigywer/IMG_8827_zps5f7d9a36.jpg
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 35):
On another note, it looks like GFK had a slight decrease in passanger numbers for the month of November. http://gfkairport.com/facts-statistics/ for emplaned passengers.

2013: 12,865
2014: 12,704

Not totally surprising now that UA is gone. Prices don't help. Try flying anywhere out of GFK for less than 800 bucks. GFK bleeds a lot of pax to FAR. Including myself next week.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
stburke
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:31 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 37):
Not totally surprising now that UA is gone. Prices don't help. Try flying anywhere out of GFK for less than 800 bucks. GFK bleeds a lot of pax to FAR. Including myself next week.
Pat
UA could have made it work but a 50% load factor for their time operating there smells like too high of fares. You really need to pull in the YWG traffic to make GFK - AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN service stick, but price sensitive leisure-traveling Canucks aren't really UA's audience.

I don't see anything in the future for GFK as far as additional service outside of a maybe 3x week to SLC assuming the airport can make a western connection lucrative AND the airline (DL) understands they need to price more for leisure travelers. If G4 can make FAR/GFK>LAS/AZA/LAX do well, there's no reason UA or DL can't add limited GFK>DEN/SLC service.

FAR; sucks they lost F9 so UA can go back to their $500 FAR-AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN fares. It was a decent summer route for them and I'm a bit surprised BIS would stay even after seasonally closing.

MOT; pull-down in seats incoming as oil continues to plummet.

DIK and ISN; much the same as MOT. Surge will continue to decline.

[Edited 2014-12-24 13:35:21]
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:24 am

Great to see BIS going for a air museum!

And a couple of things on UA in the ND market. I noticed in the latest OAG thread that UA is going down to 3/day on ORD-FAR from like April through June (idk about after that). And there was recently a article the local paper talking about the pilot shortage. And long story
short, the airport director talked mentioned due to the "shortage" on the regional side that FAR and other markets may see reduced service. Could UA going down to 3x/day from the typical 4x/day be a part of that? Or is UA just loosing that much market share here? (IF that is happening)
And also with F9 leaving, I'm not sure if fares will go up that much on the route, I never really noticed them drop when F9 came back, guess we will have to see.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:32 am

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 39):
And also with F9 leaving, I'm not sure if fares will go up that much on the route, I never really noticed them drop when F9 came back, guess we will have to see.

I hope we don't see a return to pre-F9 here in BIS. Our prices went down significantly after F9 showed up. FAR has always been cheaper than BIS and sometimes worth the drive, depending on how many people are travelling.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Now that we are in 2015, does anyone think we will see any expansion for airlines in North/ South Dakota or even in the surrounding area's?
Either through new city pairs, increased service or larger planes?
 
flight152
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:05 pm

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 41):
Either through new city pairs, increased service or larger planes?

There's no way you'll see larger equipment in DIK or ISN without extensive airport modifications. The current situation is barley adequate.
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:27 pm

Right but what about the other airports? We have GFK, FAR, BIS, MOT, RAP, and maybe others that could all take on bigger equipment with the drawdown of 50 seaters. With that in mind, will those airports mentioned or others just keep the current service or maybe even lose some
if 50 seaters are removed and not replaced? UA is going to go down to 3xD on ORD-FAR I saw, which has usually always been 4xD.
 
iowaman
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 43):
Right but what about the other airports? We have GFK, FAR, BIS, MOT, RAP, and maybe others that could all take on bigger equipment with the drawdown of 50 seaters

It will be interesting to see what happens with the price of oil tanking in the short term and medium term. MOT is opening a six gate terminal tentatively late this year, over tripling the size of the terminal. Here's an interesting tidbit:

Quote:
At peak periods, different lines in the Minot airport lobby intertwine. United's ticket-counter line goes to the door and Allegiant's runs past the car-rental area, which is also baggage claim. The security queue wraps around the elevator and blocks doors, impeding some of the other lines. When planes pull up and unload, passengers sometimes can't get through the mess to exit. And if too many people crowd the TSA checkpoint, the agency shuts down the sole screening line and waits until there is room for people to put their shoes back on.

Full story: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fast...rts-are-in-north-dakota-1406760558

ISN is talking to developers this month about interest in building a new airport. I am afraid by the time a groundbreaking is planned traffic may be down significantly. None the less, ISN is handling about 10x it's designed passenger traffic.
http://bakken.com/news/id/228503/wil...iston-weigh-interest-airport-site/

The EV IAH flights from ISN are having to stop somewhat frequently for fuel. Latest stops are in RAP and LNK. That turns the ISN-IAH flight into quite a long journey for passengers. A larger plane would help eliminate the fuel stops, but as others have said in the thread ISN is unable to take anything larger than a CRJ-200/ERJ-145.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...9/history/20150110/2011Z/KISN/KRAP

DIK Is looking at both widening and lengthening the runway to 7700x150. A parallel taxiway would also be added:
http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/new...airport-unsure-funding-master-plan

PIR (Pierre, SD) is at risk of losing $700,000 in funding due to passenger numbers under 10,000. Great Lakes is largely to blame for the 34% year over year decline http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/loc...9-246c-5c73-88f0-37b8483c8e83.html

FSD is looking into service to DCA/IAD, CLT, and IAH. The most feasible or likely is probably IAH in my opinion. UA downsizing aircraft from mainline to RJ's and less F9 flights are putting the squeeze on seat counts: http://www.argusleader.com/story/new...rline-seats-look-locally/21044141/
 
flight152
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 44):
The EV IAH flights from ISN are having to stop somewhat frequently for fuel.

I wouldn't say frequently. It happened 3 days in the past month and a half. That was the furthest I bothered to look. The problem is a full load of passengers and the use of runway 29. It's more restrictive due to obstacles. It makes more sense to stop for fuel then it does to kick off passengers.
 
FARmd90
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Some year end stats for GFK and FAR.

GFK: http://gfkairport.com/facts-statistics/
Grand Forks hand their enplanements decline for December but over all had growth for the year.

FAR: http://fargoairport.com/news/PaxStatsSummary_2015.html
http://fargoairport.com/news/Dec14Stats.html
Fargo had another record breaking year. December was the 24th month of consecutive record breaking for enplanements at FAR.
Fargo also had a 86% load factor for December.

Some more great facts and info in those links that I didn't mention.
Does anyone else have any information on any other airports? It looks like it will be an exciting year at FAR if the trend continues and I'm sure it will be an exciting year for all the airports in the Dakota's and surrounding areas.
 
azstar
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:47 pm

I would love to see additional nonstop service to Fargo. But F9 is leaving and UA's traffic is down 10% YOY, so I don't think it's going to happen. AA was the biggest gainer with 34% increase. Maybe they'll upguage their 50 seater equipment but that might be the extent of Fargo's expansion. UA discontinued BIS-ORD service and was picked up recently by AA, so with the decrease in oil region traffic I don't see much expansion there either. AA's BIS-DFW made stops in FAR three days in a row, according to flight aware, so was that due to light loads, maybe? FSD, close to FAR in population, seems to sustain a lot more air fraffic.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:23 am

Well a little bit of self-gloss here, but BIS has a new private pilot today  
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
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KLASM83
Posts: 490
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RE: FAR And Dakota Aviation Thread

Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 48):
Well a little bit of self-gloss here, but BIS has a new private pilot today

Welcome to the club! Today was actually kind of warm (up to 22degF) and nice for that.
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