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What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:08 pm

With US hubs in ATL, JFK/LGA, DTW, MSP, SLC and SEA, what purpose does SLC play in Delta's network strategy?

Is it's purpose to route traffic from secondary western/southwest/mountain markets to/from each other? Or is it something else? If so, what is it?

Thanks!
 
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Polot
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:21 pm

Connect western/mountain markets to the rest of their network. Same role as DEN with UA. SEA is too far north, and is still a long way from being a large hub-there are a lot of gaps in DL's SEA network on their own metal. The other hubs are too far east.
 
OP3000
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:34 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):

Connect western/mountain markets to the rest of their network. Same role as DEN with UA. SEA is too far north, and is still a long way from being a large hub-there are a lot of gaps in DL's SEA network on their own metal. The other hubs are too far east.

Well said. Also, not being too far north or south it works well for passengers going from the Eastern/Midwestern regions to the Western part of the country when a non-stop does not exist on Delta (ex. PHL-PHX, WAS-LAS, SFO-IAH, SEA-MSY).
 
Legend757
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
what purpose does SLC play in Delta's network strategy?
Quoting questions (Thread starter):
Is it's purpose to route traffic from secondary western/southwest/mountain markets to/from each other? Or is it something else? If so, what is it?

SLC is DL's western domestic connection point. True LAX and SEA are nearby DL hubs, but the purpose for those hubs are more focused on international connectivity rather than domestic. LAX has a lot of Mexico, Central American and Hawaiian connection opportunities, and DL is obviously trying to build up their Asian/Pacific gateway in SEA. SLC is designed to get domestic passengers (both eastern and western) connected to/in the west.

Utah is also a great recreational state. SLC is not just a connection city, but a destination as well. Several popular national parks are in the state. Skiing is huge in the winter, etc.

Many people see the demise of SLC in the near future with DL's build up in LAX and SEA, but each hub serves a completely different purpose for DL. Additionally, DL just signed a new 10 year lease with SLC and is supporting the new $1.8 billion Terminal Redevelopment Project. See link. They clearly see the value of their hub in the city/state.

www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky...oute-from-salt-lake-city/13256583/

Hope that answers your question!
 
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OA412
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 3):
SLC is DL's western domestic connection point. True LAX and SEA are nearby DL hubs, but the purpose for those hubs are more focused on international connectivity rather than domestic. LAX has a lot of Mexico, Central American and Hawaiian connection opportunities, and DL is obviously trying to build up their Asian/Pacific gateway in SEA.

Correct. SLC can handle intra-West and East-West traffic flows that SEA and LAX realistically cannot.

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 3):
SLC is designed to get domestic passengers (both eastern and western) connected to/in the west.

  

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 3):
Many people see the demise of SLC in the near future with DL's build up in LAX and SEA, but each hub serves a completely different purpose for DL.

   Those people don't quite understand how SLC works, and that many of the flows that SLC handles can't be handled as efficiently through either LAX or SEA.
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enilria
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
SLC can handle intra-West

Very poorly. In terms of West Coast there is really nothing it uniquely covers that SEA/LAX can't cover.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
East-West traffic flows that SEA and LAX realistically cannot.

In terms of what it does that LAX/SEA/MSP can't, SLC enhances DL's product in ND/SD/NE/KS/OK/TX/MT/WY/CO/NM.

I think if they added flights to SEA and LAX, these are the only holes by closing the SLC hub.

ND/SD - Minor issue
I would argue that ND/SD are so poorly served that MSP can serve them backhaul which is already largely the case.

NE - Minor issue
MSP can adequately serve OMA/LNK West and the rest of the State is not really important in terms of air service.

KS - Requires a couple of new flights
MCI (which isn't even in KS) with service to SEA and LAX would effectively serve the key points to the West. The worst of it would be to places like MT and ABQ, but those are not important markets to serve perfectly.

OK - Requires a few new flights, medium issue
The product would be pretty poor in TUL/OKC to the West. They'd need to serve both to LAX. If there were important corporates there they might consider a point to point CRJ to DEN or SLC.

TX - Requires new flights, largest issue
I think for DFW/IAH/AUS/SAT you fly to both SEA/LAX and LAX from ELP. The big hole is really ABQ, DEN, and SLC. I'm not sure that is a show-stopper. Again, they might fly a few point to point CRJs and cover anything really important.

MT - Minor issue
With SEA one way and MSP the other way it's better covered than most airlines cover it. Texas is the biggest problem. It would have to be via MSP.

WY - Minor issue
Not a big deal in terms of population or key markets. They could do SEA/MSP.

CO - Requires new flights, substantial issue
CO to Texas the largest market unserved, but SLC is a crappy hub for this coverage anyway. As suggested i think if it is an important O&D they fly a few point to point RJs.

NM - Minor issue
NM to TX is the biggest hole, but it's pretty poorly served via SLC now.

Utah and the other Western States would be adequately served via LAX.

I think Texas and somewhat Colorado are the biggest problems with closing SLC, BUT that those problems are not insurmountable and IF SLC is losing money then I still think SLC/SEA/LAX are too many hubs for the region. SLC should close if SEA becomes a 200 departure operation and LAX continues to build. They could also leave a CVG style operation in SLC to mop up some of the holes mentioned above.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
I think Texas and somewhat Colorado are the biggest problems with closing SLC, BUT that those problems are not insurmountable and IF SLC is losing money then I still think SLC/SEA/LAX are too many hubs for the region. SLC should close if SEA becomes a 200 departure operation and LAX continues to build. They could also leave a CVG style operation in SLC to mop up some of the holes mentioned above.

SLC is not losing money and the long-term demographics are extremely favorable. Its existence complements the efforts in LAX and SEA, much the same way DTW complements NYC and ATL.

It isn't going anywhere. The speculation is pointless.
 
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william
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:59 pm

It took the place of closed DFW hub.
 
roseflyer
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):

In terms of what it does that LAX/SEA/MSP can't, SLC enhances DL's product in ND/SD/NE/KS/OK/TX/MT/WY/CO/NM.

Many of those states actually have quite good yields. MT and ND especially have fairly healthy yields and far more air traffic than you would expect based on the population. Both UA and DL are flying mainline jets into cities like Billings MT. Since those parts of the country are so remote from big population centers, there is enough high yielding economy demand to make hubs in SLC, DEN and MSP work. Yields on flights like SLC-BIL are 50% higher than SEA-LAX despite being half the distance.
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Legend757
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
SLC should close if SEA becomes a 200 departure operation and LAX continues to build. They could also leave a CVG style operation in SLC to mop up some of the holes mentioned above.

Why would DL be investing so much into SLC then? Not only for the Terminal Redevelopment Project, but destinations to AMS and MEX (which are no small markets). Surely, they already had big plans for LAX and SEA when they renewed their lease at SLC and announced their plan to increase capacity by 8% at SLC by 2017 (see link) on top of the AMS announcement. Seems pointless to show all this commitment SLC if they were/are just going to make another CVG out of SLC, or close the hub all together as you suggest.

www.ksl.com/?sid=28372944&nid=148&ti...airport&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

True, airlines are known for quickly changing their minds, especially today, but it seems like they've made it clear they are committed to SLC. As I mentioned before, DL's domestic feed into LAX and SEA is not primarily designed to connect passengers to the west (nor is it as convenient), although you've made good points that it is possible.

Also to be considered are eastern passengers (inbound and outbound) that have an easy intra-west connection point at SLC

[Edited 2014-11-21 09:35:49]
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:31 pm

SLC serves as an omni directional connector within and in and out of the mountain west. North-South traffic flows are fairly significant. As well as smaller western communities to East of the Mississippi.

Many people see LAX as a viable connector, but the secondary LA airports are decent markets to SLC and it serves as an intra-west, and east connection point.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
long-term demographics are extremely favorable.

Airlines don't make decisions on that basis. IAD has good long term demographics but airlines keep bailing. CVG didn't have bad long-term demographics.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
SLC is not losing money

Or maybe it's not making *enough* money. I can prove from industry data that in terms of RASM that SLC is the poorest remaining domestic Delta hub (even adjusted for stage length) and it's poorest by about 10% which is significant.

You must see a density of hubs in the West forming and the population is much sparser out there than in the East. I previously only thought SLC was in trouble if DL acquired AS and had to consider PDX vs. SLC, but 30 gates is a game changer.

For example, the new DEN-SEA is definitely going to cannibalize the DEN-SLC. It has to. There will be a lot more of that coming.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):
Many of those states actually have quite good yields.

That's the irony. The markets that LAX and SEA serve well that overlap with SLC are much lower yield and much more competitive. I'm not sure that really means anything, though. Wyoming will always be higher yield than LAX and airlines will always shutdown Wyoming if given the chance to trade it for more of LAX. Volume, volume, volume. It's not in Wyoming or Montana or Idaho.

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 9):
Why would DL be investing so much into SLC then?
Quoting Legend757 (Reply 9):
True, airlines are known for quickly changing their minds

We know the 30 gate commitment is a change of plans for Delta because they had previously stated a much smaller plan for SEA. It's definitely a game changer, but what we don't know is what are the downstream impacts. What we do know is that DL is under enormous pressure to cap domestic capacity growth and SLC is the logical place to steal capacity as it overlaps with LAX and SEA in terms of many connecting flows.

We will have to read the tea leaves going forward to see if commitment waivers to SLC.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:24 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't DL's hubs in ATL, CVG, DTW, and MSP all closer than SEA, LAX, and SLC? If so, why are people always saying that SLC is too close to LAX and SEA for it to be a reliable hub or simply a DL hub going forward? Doesn't make sense. You also have to consider that the western U.S. is more spread out than the east and Midwest.

It's funny how so many a.net posters want to see SLC become the next CVG, MEM, CLE, PIT, etc. Not going to happen. Even if DL did drop SLC as a hub, you would probably see either B6 or AS come in and make it a hub. SLC's role for DL is an east/west connecting point and also a connecting point for many secondary and smaller western cities to other larger cities and medium size cities. Examples...

SGU-SLC-SEA
LGB-SLC-MSP
ATL-SLC-FAT
BOS-SLC-BZN
EUG-SLC-ABQ
SAT-SLC-SMF
JAC-SLC-SAN
IDA-SLC-LAX
DCA-SLC-RNO

[Edited 2014-11-21 10:25:32]
 
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enilria
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 12):

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't DL's hubs in ATL, CVG, DTW, and MSP all closer than SEA, LAX, and SLC? If so, why are people always saying that SLC is too close to LAX and SEA

It's not a fair comparison because population density is vastly lower in the West and few people live outside the largest cities. in most Western states.

SGU-SLC-SEA 4 pax per day. Yawn.
LGB-SLC-MSP Served non-stop via LAX-MSP
ATL-SLC-FAT Easily served over LAX with FAT-LAX service
BOS-SLC-BZN Easily served over MSP and more on the way
EUG-SLC-ABQ 4 pax/day and could be served via an expanded SEA
SAT-SLC-SMF Could be served via LAX
JAC-SLC-SAN That one is hard, but they could fly JAC-LAX in peak
IDA-SLC-LAX It's 10 pax/day, but they could certainly fly it non-stop in season if the connects are sufficient to make it work.
DCA-SLC-RNO That one is valid because of the perimeter issue at DCA, although there is talk of new relaxation on that.

Point is, as I analyzed above, the big one that is hard to serve is Colorado to Texas, but DL's product is already awful for that now.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:16 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 12):
t's funny how so many a.net posters want to see SLC become the next CVG, MEM, CLE, PIT, etc. Not going to happen.

Its not "so many"; I can count the number on one hand. Just a few of them are very vocal about their opinions. They throw a lot of stuff out there, claim them as predictions. Sometimes they are right and/or lucky and/or stating the obvious. A few times they get lucky and are right. Many times they are far off-base. You only hear them brag when they are right, and never admit when they are wrong.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
SGU-SLC-SEA 4 pax per day. Yawn.
LGB-SLC-MSP Served non-stop via LAX-MSP
ATL-SLC-FAT Easily served over LAX with FAT-LAX service
BOS-SLC-BZN Easily served over MSP and more on the way
EUG-SLC-ABQ 4 pax/day and could be served via an expanded SEA
SAT-SLC-SMF Could be served via LAX
JAC-SLC-SAN That one is hard, but they could fly JAC-LAX in peak
IDA-SLC-LAX It's 10 pax/day, but they could certainly fly it non-stop in season if the connects are sufficient to make it work.
DCA-SLC-RNO That one is valid because of the perimeter issue at DCA, although there is talk of new relaxation on that.

First of all if they had no interest in serving LGB they would cut service, they don't so there is obviously a market for non-LAX-SLC and beyond.

Second, some of the markets you list are unique to SLC, EUG, for example may only have 4 pax to ABQ, but likely has PAX everywhere else.

Third, why would DL want to galvanize LAX O&D by running intra-west connections through a capacity limited airport. Similarly why would DL want to galvanize SEA's Pacific feed by running intra-west connections.

Fourth, SEA requires back tracking in most city pairs.

Furthermore, the same could be said for UA to de-hub DEN since they already have SFO, and LAX (to some extent) to serve the west, and ORD, IAH to serve East/West flow.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
BUT that those problems are not insurmountable

Except they are. Delta would be forfeiting most (95%+) to connections via PHX, DEN, DFW. Backhaul is a killer and passengers have a strong preference against it. With significantly better better options on other airlines, you bet they will take them.

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
Point is, as I analyzed above, the big one that is hard to serve is Colorado to Texas, but DL's product is already awful for that now.

The point I would make is this, about 20% of DL's connecting passengers over SLC are going to WA/OR. The biggest flows are SEA-PHX, SEA-MCO etc etc. Places DL will eventually go out of SEA. On top of that, another 10% of flow passengers are going to NV (RNO/LAS mostly), those are not passengers they're going to fight over.

Add to that the 20% of SLC flow passengers that are going to California that could fly generally via a beefed up LAX...and you get the picture.

So effectively we have a hub that has a useful, unique purpose, but in a world where DL invests in LAX and SEA, 40-50% of SLC's current flow would be in jeopardy. SLC is not a big local market by any means (1/3 the size of DEN, 1/2 of SEA, 60% of MSP), so when you cut off this flow it starves all the flights.

[Edited 2014-11-21 12:14:57]
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:14 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
Very poorly. In terms of West Coast there is really nothing it uniquely covers that SEA/LAX can't cover.

Which is precisely why I said Intra-West and not Intra-West Coast. There's more to the Western US than just the West Coast. Flows in the Mountain West cannot be handled as well through SEA and LAX as they can be through SLC.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
SLC is not losing money and the long-term demographics are extremely favorable. Its existence complements the efforts in LAX and SEA, much the same way DTW complements NYC and ATL.

  

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
In terms of what it does that LAX/SEA/MSP can't, SLC enhances DL's product in ND/SD/NE/KS/OK/TX/MT/WY/CO/NM.

Many of the markets you characterize as "minor issues" are actually quite high yielding with high average fares. They may be small, but that doesn't mean you can just write them off.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):
Many of those states actually have quite good yields.

  

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
Airlines don't make decisions on that basis. IAD has good long term demographics but airlines keep bailing. CVG didn't have bad long-term demographics.

You're comparing apples to oranges. IAD has good long-term demographics, but has issues related to accessing the airport and is in a region with 2 other airports that are often more convenient for a lot of the area's travelers. SLC is the only major airport in its state. And, the airlines that "keep bailing" are domestic LCC's. In terms of international, IAD has done, and continues to do, quite well. CVG never had much O/D demand, and always had less O/D than even SLC. CVG depended heavily on the CRJ, and when that became too uneconomical, the writing was on the wall.
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jetlanta
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
We will have to read the tea leaves going forward to see if commitment waivers to SLC.

Why wait? No one loves to jump the gun more than you!  
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:40 pm

They cut RDU-SLC. & IND-SLC.....the hub is DONE. It is rapidly becoming the next MEM.

There, I read the tea leaves.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):
Many of those states actually have quite good yields.

That's the irony. The markets that LAX and SEA serve well that overlap with SLC are much lower yield and much more competitive. I'm not sure that really means anything, though. Wyoming will always be higher yield than LAX and airlines will always shutdown Wyoming if given the chance to trade it for more of LAX. Volume, volume, volume. It's not in Wyoming or Montana or Idaho.

I think it is a big deal. The Great Plains and Mountain west support SLC, DEN, and MSP as hubs. Without the relative high yields, those hubs wouldn't exist. Airports like Fargo, Billings, Bozeman, Cheyenne, Lincoln, Sioux Falls, etc can't sustain significant service. However they are high yielding and passengers are used to transiting through hubs. When you add up those markets, you can sustain 3 hubs. The dead hubs in the eastern half of the country like STL, MEM, CVG, PIT don't have a core market of higher yielding cities to sustain them, so they all lost service in consolidation. Yields are what matters.

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
SGU-SLC-SEA 4 pax per day. Yawn.
LGB-SLC-MSP Served non-stop via LAX-MSP
ATL-SLC-FAT Easily served over LAX with FAT-LAX service
BOS-SLC-BZN Easily served over MSP and more on the way
EUG-SLC-ABQ 4 pax/day and could be served via an expanded SEA
SAT-SLC-SMF Could be served via LAX
JAC-SLC-SAN That one is hard, but they could fly JAC-LAX in peak
IDA-SLC-LAX It's 10 pax/day, but they could certainly fly it non-stop in season if the connects are sufficient to make it work.
DCA-SLC-RNO That one is valid because of the perimeter issue at DCA, although there is talk of new relaxation on that.

I think that list was a bit limited in scope. SLC and MSP thrive off of the markets that only have 2 or 3 airlines. For example, if you live in Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, etc, you connect in SEA, SLC, DEN or MSP. These cities are fairly high yielding since there is little competition. This baseline of high yielding traffic will not sustain the hub, but provides steady revenue where other routes can build off of. For a hub to work, it either has to have strong O/D from a big city, or it has to serve an large area with limited competition. SLC serves a large area without too much competition. Population density is low, but that results in a higher percentage of the population requiring air service.
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Legend757
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):
They cut RDU-SLC. & IND-SLC.....the hub is DONE. It is rapidly becoming the next MEM.

IND only went seasonal  
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:07 pm

Wow, a lot of you are so negative on here. Can't say I am surprised though. SLC will be fine as a DL hub. It has been making money for a long time. It serves an important role for DL. A role than neither SEA or LAX can take on or accomplish, regardless of what some of you say or think.

DL's SLC hub is very important for DL especially in the mountain states like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, S. Dakota, N. Dakota, and Utah. It is also vey important to California. Utah residents easily fill planes to all parts of California. So that O&D alone is a huge reason why DL is having success in SLC. Put that on top of connections to California and that plays a major role for DL's SLC hub.

Now when it comes to future DL expansion out of SLC, I don't think we'll see much more east of the Mississippi, but I think you will definitely see added frequencies or bigger planes replacing RJ's flying to airports in CA, OR, WA, MT, ID, and DL in SLC.

You also have to consider that AS is wanting to continue their expansion in SLC. The competition in SLC between AS and DL can only bee good for the economy and fares flying in/out of SLC. AS has bigger future plans for SLC, as does DL.

[Edited 2014-11-21 13:09:36]
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:14 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 20):
The dead hubs in the eastern half of the country like STL, MEM, CVG, PIT don't have a core market of higher yielding cities to sustain them, so they all lost service in consolidation. Yields are what matters.

Or said another way, STL, MEM and CVG existed due to the inherent inefficiencies of too many players in the market.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:47 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):
They cut RDU-SLC. & IND-SLC.....the hub is DONE. It is rapidly becoming the next MEM.

There, I read the tea leaves.

I was being sarcastic......I think the fact that DL is adding SLC-AMS is reaffirmation of their commitment to SLC.

Quoting Legend757 (Reply 21):
IND only went seasonal  

Not sure, unless its not restarting until June, since it isn't operating in May.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
Or said another way, STL, MEM and CVG existed due to the inherent inefficiencies of too many players in the market.

Well, those hubs all date back to decades prior in the era of deregulation, many more airlines, some much more regional-focused, in a different economic environment, and in an era where aircraft has different range/profiles. RJs didn't exist, turboprops were used extensively on short routes less than 500 miles, and most narrowbodies at the time were not capable of trans-con flights.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 24):
I was being sarcastic......I think the fact that DL is adding SLC-AMS is reaffirmation of their commitment to SLC.

And the commitment to the new terminal.

But hey, its not like they made those decisions after starting the SEA growth. Oh wait...
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:59 am

SLC also has good weather compared to other hubs and minimal delays, and room for growth, or room at all. There isn't that much gate space available in SEA or LAX and, as mentioned, the backtracking required at those. It provides great connections...such as to DCA. The coastal cities tend to be hubs more for international flights than a mix for the more interior hubs.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:30 am

My husband flies DL a lot. When he flies SFO to east coast on one stop flights he is more often than not routed through MSP, DTW or ATL. Rarely is he routed through SLC.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:28 am

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
Or said another way, STL, MEM and CVG existed due to the inherent inefficiencies of too many players in the market.

Throw CLE & PIT into that group as well.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 22):
Wow, a lot of you are so negative on here. Can't say I am surprised though. SLC will be fine as a DL hub. It has been making money for a long time. It serves an important role for DL. A role than neither SEA or LAX can take on or accomplish, regardless of what some of you say or think.

What amazes me is so many on here think SLC is only important as a connecting hub. Of the 20-22 million enplanements at SLC in any given year over the last 10, roughly half or over half have been O&D. SLC might not represent the sizes of DEN or PHX, but it is a bigger metro region than any others located in the Mountain Time Zone, or interior Pacific Time Zone metropolis.

DL has a pretty good gig in SLC that like DEN, PHX or even LAS is growing...

[Edited 2014-11-21 20:33:36]
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:42 am

You don't launch new routes to MEX and AMS and renew a lease on a hub you are about to close.........Makes no sense at all. Plus Delta knows if they leave SLC someone will move in, they would be giving someone a hub that has been consistently profitable for years, they are not going to help a competitor. CVG and MEM you can abandon with no real repercussions, Delta isn't going to give JetBlue that hub that LGB never was able to be in THE perfect geographical location. I bet you Frontier or JetBlue would be very happy to help Delta pack up, but it ain't happening.
 
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mayor
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:50 am

Quoting william (Reply 7):

It took the place of closed DFW hub.

Not really........SLC and DFW coexisted for several years as hubs and the time came when the company thought one of them had to go......SLC won out because it was cheaper to operate out of there, compared to DFW.
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brilondon
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:01 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 4):
Those people don't quite understand how SLC works, and that many of the flows that SLC handles can't be handled as efficiently through either LAX or SEA.

That was why the question was posed in the first place. I think that DL would be smart to capitalize on their hub at SLC and design their system with their new aircraft around having one hub in the NW and stop building up at SEA unless their business model shows that they could maximize their revenue by having a hub at both SLC and SEA.
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flaps30
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:05 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 28):
What amazes me is so many on here think SLC is only important as a connecting hub

Exactly. During the Spring/Summer months, many people from all over the world come to Utah to visit the numerous national parks. During the Winter/Spring, many people from all over the world come to the world class ski resorts that are not very far from the airport. Lets not forget the Sundace Film Festival and SLC is also a starting point for most visitors to Yellowstone Park as well. Much to see and do all year round in Utah. It is not just a connecting point.
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enilria
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 15):
First of all if they had no interest in serving LGB they would cut service, they don't so there is obviously a market for non-LAX-SLC and beyond.

Everyone that remains in LGB (who is left?) is there just to mess with B6. B6 clearly isn't even doing very well there from the DOT data.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 15):
EUG, for example may only have 4 pax to ABQ, but likely has PAX everywhere else.

Yes, and EUG-SEA is a back-haul but is the same backhaul that AS has used to be the #1 carrier in EUG.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 15):
Third, why would DL want to galvanize LAX O&D by running intra-west connections through a capacity limited airport.

Because that's how you build a hub and that is what they are doing there.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 15):
Fourth, SEA requires back tracking in most city pairs.

As I said above, SEA has owned the PacNW by back-tracking from SEA so it must work well enough.

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 16):
So effectively we have a hub that has a useful, unique purpose, but in a world where DL invests in LAX and SEA, 40-50% of SLC's current flow would be in jeopardy. SLC is not a big local market by any means (1/3 the size of DEN, 1/2 of SEA, 60% of MSP), so when you cut off this flow it starves all the flights.

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing.

Do you ever wonder if AS' move into SLC is not to run DL out of SEA, but is actually to position themselves for service cuts in SLC by DL as SEA builds up? Another words it is a counter-balance move? That would be a smarter strategy than doing it in hopes DL gives up on SEA.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 18):

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
We will have to read the tea leaves going forward to see if commitment waivers to SLC.

Why wait? No one loves to jump the gun more than you!

This is all speculation. The SLC hub is not done by any means, but the 30 gate move by Delta increases the likelihood to a substantial one. I'd give it 35-40% over the next 5 years.
 
brilondon
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:02 pm

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 32):

Exactly. During the Spring/Summer months, many people from all over the world come to Utah to visit the numerous national parks. During the Winter/Spring, many people from all over the world come to the world class ski resorts that are not very far from the airport. Lets not forget the Sundace Film Festival and SLC is also a starting point for most visitors to Yellowstone Park as well. Much to see and do all year round in Utah. It is not just a connecting point.

These are mainly vacationers and low margin fliers.
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jetlanta
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:04 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 33):
This is all speculation. The SLC hub is not done by any means, but the 30 gate move by Delta increases the likelihood to a substantial one. I'd give it 35-40% over the next 5 years.

I'd give it 0%. Lets check back in five years.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:01 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 16):
SLC is not a big local market by any means (1/3 the size of DEN,

So you're saying SLC is only the size of the likes of BOI, GEG, RNO, ABQ? If so you're way off the mark. SLC is roughly the size of MCI, SMF, CLT & PIT so far as consolidated metro-areas at @2.4 million. For comparisons sake DEN comes in at @3.2 million, PHX @4.2 million, and the kicker is LAS @2.2 million is smaller. The above Mountain Time zone+Interior Pacific Time Zone regions all chime in at not even half that size or less.

Quoting enilria (Reply 33):
Do you ever wonder if AS' move into SLC is not to run DL out of SEA, but is actually to position themselves for service cuts in SLC by DL as SEA builds up? Another words it is a counter-balance move? That would be a smarter strategy than doing it in hopes DL gives up on SEA.

More likely to try to convince the DOJ antitrust division there is too much overlap to allow for a hostile takeover.

Quoting enilria (Reply 33):
This is all speculation. The SLC hub is not done by any means, but the 30 gate move by Delta increases the likelihood to a substantial one. I'd give it 35-40% over the next 5 years.

There's a wise old owl that once said to never bet the farm on such speculation, you'll lose it. I highly doubt DL would walk away from a high growth metro-area with a significant amount of business flying.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 35):
I'd give it 0%. Lets check back in five years.

If the LDS Church moved their headquarters say to MCI, then there "might" be a chance...
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:12 pm

Quoting gaystudpilot (Reply 27):
My husband flies DL a lot. When he flies SFO to east coast on one stop flights he is more often than not routed through MSP, DTW or ATL. Rarely is he routed through SLC.

Interesting. It seems that SLC could handle a lot of east/west connecting traffic not served by nonstop flights out of SFO vs connecting at MSP, DTW or ATL. I know there are other factors involved but SLC appears to be geographically advantaged in the western states vs MSP, DTW and ATL.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 32):
During the Spring/Summer months, many people from all over the world come to Utah to visit the numerous national parks. During the Winter/Spring, many people from all over the world come to the world class ski resorts that are not very far from the airport. Lets not forget the Sundace Film Festival and SLC is also a starting point for most visitors to Yellowstone Park as well. Much to see and do all year round in Utah. It is not just a connecting point.

There is also a huge bio-tech and computer-tech industry not to mention the world headquarters of the LDS Church that play a huge impact on the O&D flying at SLC.
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 23):

Or said another way, STL, MEM and CVG existed due to the inherent inefficiencies of too many players in the market.

CVG existed, as a hub, as an overflow for ATL..........it eventually changed into a full fledged hub, international and domestic.
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enilria
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 36):
More likely to try to convince the DOJ antitrust division there is too much overlap to allow for a hostile takeover.

There's plenty of overlap. If the DOJ chooses to ignore it the overlap in SLC will make little difference.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 36):
There's a wise old owl that once said to never bet the farm on such speculation, you'll lose it.

35-40% likelihood is not betting the farm.
 
chrisp390
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:07 pm

I remember reading an article and Richard Anderson was saying he was very happy with SLC and would be looking to expand in the coming years there
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 41):

Yep, and you can see some of those expansion plans happening.

-new SLC terminal with DL's support and financial help is under construction
-new routes to MEX and AMS announced
-DL in SLC will become all two class flights
-added frequencies and larger planes to places in Montana, California, Washington, and Oregon
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 41):
I remember reading an article and Richard Anderson was saying he was very happy with SLC and would be looking to expand in the coming years there
Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 42):
-new SLC terminal with DL's support and financial help is under construction
-new routes to MEX and AMS announced
-DL in SLC will become all two class flights
-added frequencies and larger planes to places in Montana, California, Washington, and Oregon

More International flights are also on the horizon since DL has asked SLC for a larger FIS area that has more than the present 8 Passport Control Officer positions.
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SLCSFOPDX
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:22 pm

I could see a flight to LHR on DL in a couple years, but that's about it from DL. I think Y4 will eventually come into SLC with service to GDL. Also, I think there is a small chance you could see Icelandair offer flights to KEF or Condor to FRA.
 
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:30 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 43):
More International flights are also on the horizon since DL has asked SLC for a larger FIS area that has more than the present 8 Passport Control Officer positions.

Funny, but the current FIS area came very close to being torn down to make way for a new terminal, which, obviously, never came about. It was only about a year old at the time. This was previous to the 2002 Winter Olympics.
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AST1Driver
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:05 pm

SLC is ideally positioned to handle almost all connection traffic west of the Mississippi as well as a large O&D market. Many have said that the expansion of LAX and SEA will cause SLC to slowly loose its status in the Delta system. I think MSP and DTW are actually more at risk. Most of the new flights from those markets will be transpacific not east/west connections.
 
slcguy
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:52 pm

Interesting that for the second year in a row, Delta has added an extra late night bank to both coasts on the Sunday after Thanksgiving from SLC. While the hub's primary purpose is serving intermountain traffic, it is also a good connecting point for coast to coast traffic.

[Edited 2014-11-24 08:57:56]

[Edited 2014-11-24 09:21:22]
 
michman
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:23 pm

Quoting AST1driver (Reply 46):
SLC is ideally positioned to handle almost all connection traffic west of the Mississippi as well as a large O&D market. Many have said that the expansion of LAX and SEA will cause SLC to slowly loose its status in the Delta system. I think MSP and DTW are actually more at risk. Most of the new flights from those markets will be transpacific not east/west connections.

There's a lot more flows out there than east to west coast that need to be considered. All connection traffic west of the Mississippi? So you think someone who wants to go from MCI to ORD can be handled by SLC. There are many smaller eastern cities that are not going to get non-stop service to SLC. No way is SLC going to take the place of DTW and MSP.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: What Purpose Does SLC Play In DL's Network?

Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting michman (Reply 48):

Also the same can be said....there is no way LAX and SEA can take the place of SLC.

DL needs to be careful, because from what I am hearing F9 and AS have some big expansion plans for SLC in the near future.

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