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Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:40 pm
by Miami
Delta has updated planned Summer 2015 Long-haul changes, effective from March 28.

Changes:

ATL-AMS (S14 was 2 daily 767-300ER and 1 daily A330-300).
DL070/071 A330-300
DL072/073 747-400
DL074/075 767-400ER

ATL-DUB = A330-200 replaces 767-300ER in S14).

ATL-DUS = July 16 – September 7th, 767-400ER replaces -300ER.

ATL-CDG (S14 was 2 daily 767-400ER in peak season)
DL082/083 767-300ER (-400ER from 16JUL15 to 07SEP15)
DL084/085 777-200LR

DTW-AMS (S14 was 3 daily A330-300 and 1 daily 777-200ER)
DL132/133 A330-200
DL134/135 747-400
DL136/139 A330-300
DL138/137 767-400ER

DTW-AMS = 767-300ER replaces -400ER.

DTW-CDG = 747-400 replaces A330-300 in S14.

DTW-FCO = From July 16 - September 7th, A330-300 replaces 767-400ER.

JFK-AMS = 2nd daily service restored (2 daily 767-300ER in S15).

JFK-IST = Seasonal service in Summer 2015 with A330-300, replacing 767-300ER in S14.

JFKAGP = Seasonal service in Summer 2015, Daily 757-200 service.

SEA-CDG = A330-300 replaces -200 in S14.

SEA-NRT-TPE = From June 1st – August 30, 777-200ER replaces A330-300.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/22/dl-s15update1/

-Miami   

[Edited 2014-11-22 08:35:41]

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:00 pm
by panamair
Also, noticed some other changes:

SEA-AMS: 1x A333 and 1x 764; was 2x A333 last summer

BOS-AMS: 1x A333 and 1x 764; was 1x A333; 1x A332 or 763 last summer

BOS-CDG: 1x 764; was 1x 763 last summer

JFK-LHR: 3x 763 DL metal; was 2x 764 and 1x 763 DL metal last summer

JFK-CDG: 1x A333; was 1x A332 last summer

MSP-AMS: 2x A333 and 1x 764; was 2x A333 and 1x A332 last summer

SLC-CDG: 1x 763; was 1x A332 last summer

NRT-BKK: 1x 763; was 1x 744 last summer

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:05 pm
by Miami
Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
Also, noticed some other changes:

JFK-ATH = June 2–August 31, Increase from 7 to 11 weekly
PHL-LHR = April 7th, 1 daily 757 service.
SLCAMS = May 1, 5 weekly 767-300ER service, daily from May 18.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:09 pm
by AVENSAB727
I wonder when UA will release their changes.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:09 pm
by factsonly
Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
DTW-AMS (S14 was 3 daily A330-300 and 1 daily 777-200ER)
DL134/135 747-400
DL136/139 A330-300
DL138/137 767-400ER

DTW-AMS = 767-300ER replaces -400ER.

This should read 4x daily:

DL132/133 A330-200 daily
DL134/135 747-400 daily
DL136/139 A330-300 daily
DL138/137 767-400ER daily

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:49 pm
by BlatantEcho
This is quite the equipment shuffle.

Is this all finalized, or still some placeholders?

And I didn't know the 764ER had the range for west coast to Europe.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:07 pm
by SLCUT2777
Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
SLC-CDG: 1x 763; was 1x A332 last summer
Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
SLCAMS = May 1, 5 weekly 767-300ER service, daily from May 18.

Obviously no need for the larger A332 on CDG with AMS coming on line.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:15 pm
by panamair
I expect that there will be some more equipment changes as with the current schedule, the 75E/75S and A332s are over-scheduled, while there is still slack in the 763ER and in particular the A333 utilization.

Notable changes with this load are:

- introduction of multiple 764s to AMS
- using a 764 for West Coast-Europe (IIRC, first time ever for DL)
- JFK gets more A333s than it has ever had
- return of DL 744s to Europe
- return of the DL 777 to CDG

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:35 pm
by LAXSTEW
Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
NRT-BKK: 1x 763; was 1x 744 last summer

That's a pretty big reduction; makes me nervous for our BKK F/A base...

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:46 am
by ChiGB1973
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
And I didn't know the 764ER had the range for west coast to Europe.

According to the Boeing website, the 764 has a range of 5625 NM.

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/767family/pf/pf_400prod.page

SEA - AMS is 4886 according to great circle mapper.

M

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:12 am
by n27903
so where are all the a330-200's going? It doesn't look like hardly any maybe a few are taking a different a/c route over... they going to Asia more?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:47 am
by Miami
Quoting N27903 (Reply 10):
they going to Asia more?

That's still unsure. Doubt it though.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:06 am
by factsonly
It seems that DL's S15 service to BOM has not been loaded in the Delta systems, BOM flights are only loaded until 28 March 2015.

Is this route closed for S15 or is this an oversight.

There were some comments on A.net that DL would close the route, is this true?

Anyone?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:54 pm
by rockyracoon
Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
NRT-BKK: 1x 763; was 1x 744 last summer

Surprising. Is this reflective of the aircraft scheduling at NRT or route performance?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:08 pm
by enilria
Quoting factsonly (Reply 12):

It seems that DL's S15 service to BOM has not been loaded in the Delta systems, BOM flights are only loaded until 28 March 2015.

That's very interesting. I wonder if they are considering ATL-BOM?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:56 pm
by flyguy1
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
That's very interesting. I wonder if they are considering ATL-BOM?

Perhaps JFK would make more sense for this flight?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:17 pm
by JOYA380B747
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
I wonder if they are considering ATL-BOM?
Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 15):
Perhaps JFK would make more sense for this flight?

You mean to say they'll make it a JFK/ATL nonstop, instead of via AMS? Is that what you mean?
Last time I checked India was still CAT II and that such changes could be made only if India had CAT I restored, isnt it?
Also DL is just using the KLM partnership to ply on the AMS-BOM route, so removing this would mean KLM back. In any case I don't see a DL non stop to BOM as there aren't enough frames I suppose.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:26 pm
by factsonly
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
That's very interesting. I wonder if they are considering ATL-BOM?

The DL BOM flight is no longer listed on the DL or KL reservation systems. The last Joint Venture flight is 27 March 2015.

However for the time being the flight remains listed on Amadeus and Galileo.

As BOM is a Joint Venture destination, the JV may have worked out that a KL operated flight is cheaper to operate, as crews are less time away from home. It could be that this is not yet reflected in the systems.

If the JV were to decide to operate BOM non-stop from the USA (JFK or ATL), this would leave AMS-BOM unserved. Perhaps Jet Airway/EY would like to pick it up, as has been rumoured so often before.

Either this is an oversight or something interesting is brewing!

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:32 pm
by tlecam
The Bos to CDG upgauge is impressive. Went from 757 to 763 to 764 in two years.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:20 pm
by admluvs2fly
I noticed that DTW-NGO isn't loaded. Does that mean it is not flying or just not loaded.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:11 pm
by azjubilee
Quoting LAXSTEW (Reply 8):
That's a pretty big reduction; makes me nervous for our BKK F/A base...

The base didn't close when NRT-BKK went 757. I can't see the base closing until DL can figure out a way to connect BKK nonstop to the USA, and/or find enough Thai speaking FA's who can staff the flight, 7/wk in both directions.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
That's very interesting. I wonder if they are considering ATL-BOM?
Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 15):
Perhaps JFK would make more sense for this flight?

Both ATL and JFK-BOM have flown in the past, there would have to be major changes in the marketplace for them to return to an expensive long haul flight such as this. If DL isn't operating AMS-BOM, then KLM must be taking over. Any idea if the bilateral has changed between Netherlands and India? If so, that may answer the question as to why DL metal isn't scheduled to BOM. Either that, or DL's US-India traffic has dried up so much, they can funnel everyone through CDG.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:29 pm
by steex
Quoting factsonly (Reply 12):
It seems that DL's S15 service to BOM has not been loaded in the Delta systems, BOM flights are only loaded until 28 March 2015.

This is interesting because AMS-BOM does show up in the DL electronic timetable, which is generally what the online booking tool is updated to match, but isn't being sold on the website as either a DL or KL operated flight. I think it would be fairly safe to assume that one of them would be flying it.

Quoting admluvs2fly (Reply 19):
I noticed that DTW-NGO isn't loaded. Does that mean it is not flying or just not loaded.

I see this one loaded as usual - it's on the electronic timetable and available for sale on Delta's website. Keep in mind DTW-NGO is only 5x weekly (no Mon or Wed departure from DTW), so perhaps you happened to look at days it doesn't operate?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:22 pm
by PIEAvantiP180
In Sabre GDS AMS to BOM has been zeroed out past Mar 27.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:37 am
by OOer
Quoting steex (Reply 21):
Quoting factsonly (Reply 12):
It seems that DL's S15 service to BOM has not been loaded in the Delta systems, BOM flights are only loaded until 28 March 2015.

This is interesting because AMS-BOM does show up in the DL electronic timetable, which is generally what the online booking tool is updated to match, but isn't being sold on the website as either a DL or KL operated flight. I think it would be fairly safe to assume that one of them would be flying it.

DL is discontinuing AMS-BOM and the route is being taken over by KL. The Delta staff in BOM has been informed that the station is closing.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:47 am
by HeeseokKoo
Quoting steex (Reply 21):
Quoting admluvs2fly (Reply 19):
I noticed that DTW-NGO isn't loaded. Does that mean it is not flying or just not loaded.

I see this one loaded as usual - it's on the electronic timetable and available for sale on Delta's website. Keep in mind DTW-NGO is only 5x weekly (no Mon or Wed departure from DTW), so perhaps you happened to look at days it doesn't operate?

In fact, DL changed DTW-NGO as a quick turn pattern.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:14 am
by frigatebird
Quoting panamair (Reply 7):
Notable changes with this load are:

- introduction of multiple 764s to AMS

Noticed this too, some of them seem to come from LHR, I thought the 764 was more premium configured, therefore better suited to LHR than AMS?

Also surprised to see the 77L to CDG. The 77E seemed more logical, as AMS won't see the 77E any more next summer.

And with a couple of 744s to AMS again, one really wonders DL really doesn't need anything bigger than A339s for their future fleet... Don't think we'll see A359s going to AMS.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:43 am
by jumpjets
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 25):
Noticed this too, some of them seem to come from LHR,

I noticed this - I wondered if there is a link between this decision and the new relationship with VS. Maybe replace the two VS A330s with couple of 744s to make up the DL capacity drop.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:45 am
by factsonly
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 25):
Noticed this too, some of them seem to come from LHR, I thought the 764 was more premium configured, therefore better suited to LHR than AMS?

The Premium heaviness of the B764 is marginal compared to the A333 and A332, it is the B744 that will introduce a larger Business Class while adding economy seating as well.

Delta seating:

- A333 = 34C32Y+227Y
- A332 = 34C32Y+168Y
- B763 = 36C29Y+143Y
- B764 = 40C28Y+178Y
- B744 = 48C42Y+286Y

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:48 am
by kl911
Quoting OOer (Reply 23):
DL is discontinuing AMS-BOM and the route is being taken over by KL. The Delta staff in BOM has been informed that the station is closing.

Wow, any idea what equipment / times KLM will use?

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:32 pm
by commavia
Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
NRT-BKK: 1x 763; was 1x 744 last summer
Quoting rockyracoon (Reply 13):
Surprising. Is this reflective of the aircraft scheduling at NRT or route performance?

Makes sense considering how NRT (and thus feed over it) continues to shrink, and that BKK isn't exactly the highest-yielding market in the world.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:02 pm
by jetlanta
Quoting OOer (Reply 23):
DL is discontinuing AMS-BOM and the route is being taken over by KL. The Delta staff in BOM has been informed that the station is closing.

I've wondered when this was going to happen for quite a while. The explosive growth of the ME3 carriers has had a huge impact on the market to India from both the US and Europe. The logistical and cost challenges of operating a Fifth Freedom service to a destination halfway around the world were worth it when India was a higher-yield destination, but nowadays it just makes more sense to have the JV partners handle it. Its unfortunate that Delta metal will no longer be seen in India, but that aircraft can more effectively be utilized elsewhere.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:14 pm
by commavia
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 30):
I've wondered when this was going to happen for quite a while. The explosive growth of the ME3 carriers has had a huge impact on the market to India from both the US and Europe. The logistical and cost challenges of operating a Fifth Freedom service to a destination halfway around the world were worth it when India was a higher-yield destination, but nowadays it just makes more sense to have the JV partners handle it. Its unfortunate that Delta metal will no longer be seen in India, but that aircraft can more effectively be utilized elsewhere.

   India is a huge market - but it's one generally best left to others.

United may be able to continue sustaining nonstop EWR-DEL/BOM, but beyond that, it's difficult to imagine much U.S. carrier service to even India's two largest and most important cities, let alone any of the other large markets (BLR, MAA, HYD, CCU, etc.) in the country. Maybe it could work at some point in the future with a 787, but I think that's longer-term.

For now, Emirates, Etihad and Qatar have effectively turned the Gulf into a perfect nexus between North America and just about every major city of consequence in India, and the U.S. carriers can lean more on their European JV partners to reach the big markets.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:54 pm
by jetblue1965
Quoting factsonly (Reply 27):
Delta seating:

- A333 = 34C32Y+227Y
- A332 = 34C32Y+168Y
- B763 = 36C29Y+143Y
- B764 = 40C28Y+178Y
- B744 = 48C42Y+286Y

I'm curious why the smaller frames has higher % of premium seats

763 : 36 J out of 208, or 17.3%

333 : 34J out of 293, or 11.6%
772 : 37 J out of 291, or 12.7%
744 : 48 J out of 376, or 12.8%

UA, on the other hand, has lower J on their small birds but much larger F+J on their big birds :

763 (2-class) : 30 J out of 214, or 14.0%
788 (2-class) : 36 J out of 219, or 16.4%

772 (3-class) : 8F+40J out of 266, or 18.0%
772 (2-class) : 50 J out of 267, or 18.7%
744 (3-class) : 12F+52J out of 374, or 17.1%

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:16 pm
by tlecam
Delta operates two densities (is that a word?) of the 763.

One is 26J/29/171. My experience is that they fly this configuration to secondary cities. For example, I flew this configuration from PRG-JFK.


I've seen the 36/29/143 on premium routes, such as BOS-LHR.

RE: Delta S15 Long-Haul Operation Changes

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:27 pm
by Delta763
Quoting OOer (Reply 23):
DL is discontinuing AMS-BOM and the route is being taken over by KL. The Delta staff in BOM has been informed that the station is closing.

It had a good run. However, the point of a JV with AF/KL is to negate the need to service routes like that. I get that it filled a gap caused by limitations in the bilateral agreement, but I guess that's finally been remedied. I'm surprised it took this long.