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mcdu
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:26 am

First, I am very surprised to see this type of union axe being ground in public with WN. They have done a great job of deflecting any type of negativity over the years. I suspect WN has a team of lawyers looking at any and all methods to stop any future ads being publish and to attack the Union with any type of legal action it can dream up. It doesn't have to be valid legal action, just something to occupy the union leaderships time and cost them money defending.

Secondly what I find interesting is the argument from WN supporters that the lost bag number is higher due to the "bags fly free" program. That is not justification for poor performance. Do you expect your order at McDonalds to be incorrect because they sell the most burgers? Or would you accept an iPhone that breaks daily because Apple builds so many of them? When WN accepts a passenger bag for transport, it has a duty and responsibility to have it arrive at the same time as the customer. Failure to do so should be analyzed and corrections should be made to improve the bag performance. It is not acceptable to use volume as an excuse. I am absolutely sure the affected passengers that didn't have their bags would not have given WN a pass if told it was "volume" as to why you don't have your bags.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:20 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 50):
Secondly what I find interesting is the argument from WN supporters that the lost bag number is higher due to the "bags fly free" program. That is not justification for poor performance.

I'd agree, though I'm not sure that WN's performance is "poor" given that the numbers we see for UA, AA and DL are mainline only, and like most with metrics, the regionals perform much worse than the mother ship. For instance, in September, 2014, MQ's mishandled baggage rate was over twice as high as AA's.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
neutronstar73
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):

Exactly. Southwest flies more passengers, and those passengers see "2x bags fly free" and Southwest's fares are STILL competitive or beat the competition. So it would only figure that they would mishandle more bags since the other airlines aren't probably in the same ballpark when it comes to the number of bags they carry, since those customers are trying their best to stuff a coffin full of clothes in the overheads of competitors' aircraft.

Given the chance, I try to fly Southwest whenever I can. Best fares, best frequency, and my hometown (LAS) is kind of a hub for them, so I can fly back home pretty much from anywhere the military sends me stateside. And they wont screw me on miles or some such other nonsense where I have to basically accumulate 1 million miles to even qualify for a free commuter ticket from SAN to LAX on the "major" carriers.
 
CO777DAL
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:19 pm

Flew into DAL yesterday on United from Hong Kong and was surprised to see WN empoyees protesting outside Love Field. I thought it was all Love over at WN. I took a couple photos because I was shocked to see this.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1385139_842099085842657_6122028146110903479_n.jpg?oh=5fb70d167b55cff12f0b73fede6837f4&oe=551DA930&__gda__=1423468971_035f489835b7508ec3005bc11061b033
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/535934_842099112509321_5789509460334917261_n.jpg?oh=03d63781e8fa9b5e052a0a549594241d&oe=551E0A5A
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:37 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 51):
I'd agree, though I'm not sure that WN's performance is "poor" given that the numbers we see for UA, AA and DL are mainline only

WN's operational performance is definitely poor no matter how you slice it. UA/DL/AA/US mainline are all consistently outperforming them, and that's not saying much considering AA/US/UA's performance either. The express carriers are a mixed bag--Expressjet and Envoy are usually pretty dreadful. Skywest usually pretty good.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
I don't see the need for bag fees when they already charge higher fares. That's why they can get away with no bag fees. There are many other places for them to charge ancillary fees without undermining their entire marketing foundation. If they start charging bag fees they'll have to lower their fares. It's one of the other. Also, there will always be people checking bags so rampers will always be needed. Do you schedule number of rampers per plane or per bags?

WN has a fare premium in shorter, shuttle like markets, where I honestly don't think bags even matter. WN is getting great fares intra TX and CA for example, and i just don't see things like DALHOU and SMFLAX as being big bag markets. Staffing is based not on bags but the minimum infrastructure you need to run a reliable operation, which WN currently is not. One of the complaints was not enough ramp staff to turn a 738 for example. Bag fees would mean fewer bags total being loaded and unloaded and would speed up turns, and you may not need to add that incremental ramper, which if it hasn't been resolved already is probably one of the issues in this ad.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
phillyramp270
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:04 pm

Wow... Didn't like some of the ramp comments, I'm sorry but my BACK is more important than your bag is. You can put 250 bags in a 738 plus 5000 pounds of mail! And we need 6 persons over at AA/US... Oh management doesn't want to call in over overtime?... It's cool that plane will sit there and hum at the gate till we get some walkers.. And we will put bags on the belt for at a time when.. Took us hours to offload a fully loaded 757 one time.. Done it before, do it again

Point of the matter is... WN needs to hire more people! Yes they pretty much got the best wages on the ramp, we at LUS joke about all the time... But best believe they work a lot lot harder than we do!
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesu
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54):
WN's operational performance is definitely poor no matter how you slice it.

You're living in the past a bit. In September, 2014, WN was comparable to UA in on-time performance (0.3 percent behind across all airports). Both were behind DL and AA mainline but well ahead of XE and MQ (OO was similar to UA and WN). Completion percentage is a similar story, though there, OO is more similar to the other regionals.

Moreover, my comment specifically concerned checked bag performance, where WN has been below the other (mainline) legacies but well above all of the big regionals most months. WN has also been improving its performance year over year, while the other legacies are getting worse.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
commavia
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 56):
You're living in the past a bit. In September, 2014, WN was comparable to UA in on-time performance (0.3 percent behind across all airports). Both were behind DL and AA mainline but well ahead of XE and MQ (OO was similar to UA and WN). Completion percentage is a similar story, though there, OO is more similar to the other regionals.

Moreover, my comment specifically concerned checked bag performance, where WN has been below the other (mainline) legacies but well above all of the big regionals most months. WN has also been improving its performance year over year, while the other legacies are getting worse.

In a way, though, it seems to me - at it may just be my perception, honestly - that compared to Southwest once was, or at least liked to claim it was, being "comparable to United" and "well ahead" of a bunch of regional operators is still quite a fall. This, like in so many ways, is just another reminder that the Southwest of the past is - now in the past. The days of 20-minute turns, small and uncongested airports, cheap labor costs, etc. are O-V-E-R.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 491
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 30):
There could be a number of reasons why a bag gets lost...

There are many factors in why a bag gets lost. It is not a simple as it looks. That's why airlines have bag tracking tools.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 32):
I love the employees of WN, I am friends with many of them. But they are spoiled and they need to be willing to give in a little. WN may be making profits now, but their costs are sky rocketing and their unions have them locked down with all of the frivolous restrictions in the contacts. Newsflash, every other major airline has gone through bankruptcy and lowered their costs, WN employees are lucky to have what they have now, yet alone more.

And that is the crux of the matter. The rest of us has been through with bankruptcy; wage cuts; downsizing; and outsourcing. They haven't had that since they have people in all of their cities they fly. (Flying mainline aircraft helps). Working short does not help either. Now they have 738's (probably without Telairs) which is very labor intensive, especially turning one in a short period. With the volume of bags, that task is very difficult. But the rest of us have a variety of aircraft to work with, and probably have to work with less manpower than an average WN crew. Try doing a 800 - or better yet - a 752 with a lead and two. And run your own inbound bags. And get your own outbound bags. No fun at all.

They will have to deal with cost like the rest of us. They have great management. Now is how they will succeed? I know Management will ask for "productivity gains" = working with less. And "being competitive" = Outsourcing. TWU 555 will have to get creative in how they will proceed, not to degrade any previous gains. What the "Association" (TWU/IAM) will do in the upcoming AA/US negotiations may or may not be a factor in any WN talks. If they get a good deal for them, that may work out for those guys or vice versa.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
copter808
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 23):
The funny thing is in the comments of the article: Airlines don't lose bags. Airline employees lose bags....UNION airline employees. The irony is awesome, the Rampers handle the bags, do a poor job at handling the bags, put add in paper stating that the bags are handled poorly, and want more money to continue poorly handling the bags…gotcha…
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 38):
Agreed, sometimes issues are out of our hands for the most part..

Wow, it took 21 previous replies before this was mentioned!!!!

Quoting 737-990 (Reply 39):
Southwest hasn't really gotten worse, the rest of the Industry just got better especially since 2009. I think that's when most of the Airlines changed to charging for bags. I think the correlation between bag fees and lower mishandling rate is indisputable.

Possibly because more carriers are using scanners to track bags now.

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 55):
Wow... Didn't like some of the ramp comments, I'm sorry but my BACK is more important than your bag is. You can put 250 bags in a 738 plus 5000 pounds of mail! And we need 6 persons over at AA/US... Oh management doesn't want to call in over overtime?... It's cool that plane will sit there and hum at the gate till we get some walkers.. And we will put bags on the belt for at a time when.. Took us hours to offload a fully loaded 757 one time.. Done it before, do it again

Point of the matter is... WN needs to hire more people! Yes they pretty much got the best wages on the ramp, we at LUS joke about all the time... But best believe they work a lot lot harder than we do!

Regardless of the underlying cause, the ad says to me "We aren't doing out job, so pay us more money!" If thy are seeking higher wages and/or more employees (more union members?), I think this is a poor way to bring it up.
 
737-990
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 57):
that compared to Southwest once was, or at least liked to claim it was, being "comparable to United" and "well ahead" of a bunch of regional operators is still quite a fall. This, like in so many ways, is just another reminder that the Southwest of the past is - now in the past. The days of 20-minute turns, small and uncongested airports, cheap labor costs, etc. are O-V-E-R.

Remember when Southwest touted it's self proclaimed "Triple Crown" award? Seven years in a row best ontime performance, best baggage handling and fewest passenger complaints? How far it's fallen if all that can be claimed now is it's comparable to United.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting 737-990 (Reply 60):
Quoting commavia (Reply 57):Remember when Southwest touted it's self proclaimed "Triple Crown" award? Seven years in a row best ontime performance, best baggage handling and fewest passenger complaints? How far it's fallen if all that can be claimed now is it's comparable to United.

How much of that relates to moving into congested airports? In 2000, WN wasn't flying to the likes of SFO, PHL and LGA.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mcdu
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:08 pm

Ramp agents don't necessarily lose bags. The airline may decide to push a flight without some connecting bags for many reasons. Something new for WN would be the needed re-screen of international bags. This additional step, delays connecting bags. If the flight has crew time issue, ATC slot issue or gate constraint issue, a decision to push without connecting bags would not be the fault of the ramp. I suspect no ramp agent intentionally mishandles a bag. It's all down to workload for the staffing level and the infrastructure around them to support the operation. WN has gone from mostly point to point to a more hub and spoke with more connecting bags and pax than ever before. It looks like from the outside looking in that WN is struggling in how to run hubs. There was an article last year that said WN was seeking help from legacy carriers due to the operational collapse at MDW.
 
swacle
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 50):
Secondly what I find interesting is the argument from WN supporters that the lost bag number is higher due to the "bags fly free" program. That is not justification for poor performance

You misunderstand. Until 2009, when the rush to charge for bags began, WN was routinely in the top 3 for bag handling. Now, WN is the only airline that does not charge for bags. Our bag numbers have as such remained pretty steady. Fuller flights and larger planes = more bags, but at least in CLE, the bags per customer has remained pretty stable. Our mishandled bag ratio (4.1ish at last check) is also within a narrow range of +/-1 for the last 15+ years. What has changed is the industry average number of bags checked per passenger. I think it was mentioned above, but the industry metric is mishandled bags per 1,000 CUSTOMERS. This stat leaves WN at a distinct disadvantage. It should be mishandled bags per 1,000 BAGS. If everyone else all of a sudden checks, say, 35 bags per 100 customers and WN checks 70 bags per 100 customers, the others have a significant statistical advantage (I don't know real numbers, those are just for an example.)

With that in mind, the bag performance is NOT poor by any means, it just lags behind the competition based on a flawed statistic.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
Silver1SWA
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:42 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 62):


   I can't believe I am saying this to you, but you are 100% spot on.

 
Quoting swacle (Reply 63):
but at least in CLE, the bags per customer has remained pretty stable.

You are lucky. Our numbers have shot through the roof. An average flight today is as heavy as the heaviest flight during the holidays ten years ago when I started. It's nuts.

[Edited 2014-11-26 13:50:50]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
dlramp4life
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:23 pm

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 62):

But according to the world of a.net it is always the ramp agents fault, no matter what the issue is.

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 55):

Wow... Didn't like some of the ramp comments, I'm sorry but my BACK is more important than your bag is. You can put 250 bags in a 738 plus 5000 pounds of mail! And we need 6 persons over at AA/US... Oh management doesn't want to call in over overtime?... It's cool that plane will sit there and hum at the gate till we get some walkers.. And we will put bags on the belt for at a time when.. Took us hours to offload a fully loaded 757 one time.. Done it before, do it again

They always say safety is more important then being on time, so your doing it right.

[Edited 2014-11-26 14:21:07]
 
T5towbar
Posts: 491
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:17 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 62):
Ramp agents don't necessarily lose bags. The airline may decide to push a flight without some connecting bags for many reasons. Something new for WN would be the needed re-screen of international bags. This additional step, delays connecting bags. If the flight has crew time issue, ATC slot issue or gate constraint issue, a decision to push without connecting bags would not be the fault of the ramp. I suspect no ramp agent intentionally mishandles a bag. It's all down to workload for the staffing level and the infrastructure around them to support the operation. WN has gone from mostly point to point to a more hub and spoke with more connecting bags and pax than ever before. It looks like from the outside looking in that WN is struggling in how to run hubs. There was an article last year that said WN was seeking help from legacy carriers due to the operational collapse at MDW.

That's another factor on mishandled bags: the re-checking of bags from International to Domestic. Pre-Clear bags often miss during tight connections, because the connectors have to be screened by TSA, making the connectors Domestic Bags. You just cannot take a Pre-Cleared connecting bag and bring it to another gate, even if the connecting flight is on the next gate. It's gotta go get screened by TSA. And the screening area is maybe in another zone. So that bag will miss and has to be rushed on another flight. There are major fines if this process is not followed to the letter.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 65):
They always say safety is more important then being on time, so your doing it right

AMEN.
Safety First. Can't get written up or fired due to following procedure and working safely. Let the flight take a hit.....
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 65):
They always say safety is more important then being on time, so your doing it right.

Putting bags on the belt four at a time to spite passengers (who pay rampers' salaries) and management isn't doing it right. Sorry.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyBigDeltaJets
Posts: 122
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:07 am

Quoting andrew50 (Reply 21):
I fly between IAH-LAX quite often. A few weeks ago my wife and I flew this route on United. $325 for both of us round trip. Southwest was $350 for one fare. I rarely even look at them anymore because they are so expensive.

Please don't think I'm singling you out, but this seems to be the exact problem with most of the flying public these days. Assuming there's not a typo in your post, you just flew halfway across the country and back for $163 per person. You can't drive for cheaper than that, to say nothing of the fact that by flying, you're there in 3 hours instead of 22.

[Edited 2014-11-27 17:16:55]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:52 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 8):
But you bought it, so what are you complaining about???  

   One would think as a rational consumer he purchased what made the most sense at the time of purchase. Considering that planes are full and this was purchased during a crazy time of year to fly.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 10):
Please tell me where else I'm supposed to buy FL tickets. And no, I don't have to accept this merger--WN should have left FL alone.

And let FL fail? FL had a wake up call and the only 'value added' option was to merge with another airline. Since regulators would have blocked merging with DL, whom would you suggest they have merged with?

I don't like that B6 will now charge for bags and decrease pitch... But I'll live with it and I'll fly them out of LGB for convenience and service. I'll just have to pay more and actually fork out money for the Y+ seat. Cest la vie... mission to separate me from more of my money is practically certain. The merger of WN and FL was to 'increase value' and thus separate you from more of your money. If you don't like it, there are other options (perhaps with connections or less ideal times, but there are options).

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. But of course union leaders probably aren't smart enough to do basic math.

What are they going to say when RFID tags go through and reduce the needed headcount?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
"Through September, the 2014 rate is 4.27 bag complaints per 1,000 passengers,"
That measurement is no longer valid in this era of checked bag fees. I'd like to see number of complaints per 1,000 bags checked rather than per 1,000 passengers.

Agreed. But WN is too slow adopting 'technology.' Seriously, WN lacks certain IT processes that anyone below age 30 just takes for granted being everywhere. WN has been hurt the last few years trying to avoid technology, time to stop avoiding and embrace.

And the tactics of a union bad mouthing their employer just aren't as tolerated today. The union members should realize that it is time to apply 'more inclusive tactics.' The 'us vs. them' mentality belongs in a prior decade.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
glbltrvlr
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
I even had a DEN flight in October where my bags beat me to the carousel

I can recall that happening for me at PHX as a matter of course in the past, but it's been years since it's been a regular occurrence.
 
ODwyerPW
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 7):
EDIT: Yup. DL is charging around $790 for P (quasi flexible / refundable

And then you paid for your bags on top of that..... $25 a piece, per leg...

Southwest same ticket was $760 and your bags flew free.....

If you flew with just one checked bag..... both ways... that's $50.... So your cost was $840.... compared to $760 for Southwest... That's a near 10% savings ($80)

What's your complaint again about Southwest??
learning never stops.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1966
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:37 pm

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 72):

And then you paid for your bags on top of that..... $25 a piece, per leg...

You don't pay checked luggage fees for the first few bags if you're in revenue first class on Delta...Or United....Or US Airways...Or AA, especially if you're on full fare premium tickets    P class on Delta is flexible domestic first class. Even if you're in nonrefundable first class, none of the legacies charge for bags. It's one of the reasons that some people prefer sitting up front. But alas, none of that has to do with WN or their union groups...

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 72):


Southwest same ticket was $760 and your bags flew free.....

If you flew with just one checked bag..... both ways... that's $50.... So your cost was $840.... compared to $760 for Southwest... That's a near 10% savings ($80)

Uh, I haven't taken my AirTran trip yet. It's 30 days from now, on the 28th of December. And I don't typically check bags on daytrips in which I'm flying to the destination, staying for a thrice of hours, and then skedaddling back home.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
ODwyerPW
Posts: 1624
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:26 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 73):
if you're in revenue first class on Delta

My bad. I completely missed the first class part... and the Dec 28th... Wow!! My reading comprehension needs work...
$30 adder for first class compared to cattle class is a no brainer.
learning never stops.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:23 am

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 69):
So what... Don't like it, Google the nearest Bus terminal!

I have bought based on baggage delivery time in the past. Some airlines are consistently better than others. (I've also bought based on which employees are getting along with their respective carriers at the moment.)

[Edited 2014-11-28 20:31:29]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ozark1
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 16):
Overrated.

My feelings about them exactly. But can someone please tell me why, after their dismal on-time performance, last place in baggage handling, and union problems, do they still have the lowest complaint rate? Can anyone shed light on that for me?
Thanks! I am guess their front line employees are the reason?
 
swacle
Posts: 534
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 80):

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 16):
Overrated.

My feelings about them exactly. But can someone please tell me why, after their dismal on-time performance, last place in baggage handling, and union problems, do they still have the lowest complaint rate? Can anyone shed light on that for me?
Thanks! I am guess their front line employees are the reason?

-On-Time performance is fixed. Between the harsh winter and a summer schedule that was just too tight, the first 8 months of 2014 were bad, but since September, on time performance is over 80%.

-Mishandled bag ratio is a flawed statistic. As explained above, WN transports upwards of twice as many bags as the competition. If the MBR is bags per 1,000 customers, the carrier that checks in 350 bags for those 1,000 customers will have a distinct statistical advantage over the carrier that checks 700 bags for the same number of customers. To compare with other airlines, you should really half WN's MBR.
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:10 pm

Gary, your stock share price saw the single biggest one day increase of $2.54 per share on Friday that I remember as a stock holder. Sir get off your wallet and show a little LUV and take care of the team.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:29 am

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 75):
But can someone please tell me why, after their dismal on-time performance, last place in baggage handling, and union problems, do they still have the lowest complaint rate?

How do you figure that WN is--or has ever been--last place in baggage handling?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
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RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 75):
My feelings about them exactly. But can someone please tell me why, after their dismal on-time performance, last place in baggage handling, and union problems, do they still have the lowest complaint rate? Can anyone shed light on that for me?

It sounds like a lot of these are being addressed currently.

Anecdotally, between friends and family, there is this visceral emotional attachment to Southwest.
Many family and friends "swear" by them being the best and cheapest everywhere.
It's very similar to the visceral attachment and blind following of Toyota cars in the late 2000s when their statistical numbers were falling below their peers, but their reputation still soared high in the hearts and minds of consumers, despite new statistics.
I think it's like that.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting swacle (Reply 76):



-Mishandled bag ratio is a flawed statistic. As explained above, WN transports upwards of twice as many bags as the competition. If the MBR is bags per 1,000 customers, the carrier that checks in 350 bags for those 1,000 customers will have a distinct statistical advantage over the carrier that checks 700 bags for the same number of customers. To compare with other airlines, you should really half WN's MBR.

You only think the number isn't fair because it paints WN in very negative manner. Bag fees have been around for many years. It wasn't until WN shifted their business model to more of a hub and spoke in addition to a merger that the numbers moved so dramatically bad for WN.

The other airlines carry large number of bags also and I suspect the difference in passengers checking bags is not nearly as large as you want to make people think. With the loyalty programs most passengers receive a free first bag if they hold the airlines credit card or are a FF. The other carriers are also flying much more international passengers that travel with more bags and bags that must be checked versus cabin luggage. Also, most of the legacy carriers start automatically tagging gate bags with the higher boarding group numbers due to the cabin bins filling up.

I don't blame the ramp agents at WN for their poor numbers. I blame WN management and their lack of implementation of steps to prevent misahandled bags. Technology could help and from my what I can read WN is behind the curve in applying modern technology to their bag system.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 67):
Putting bags on the belt four at a time to spite passengers (who pay rampers' salaries) and management isn't doing it right. Sorry.

Doing to spite passengers is not right.

Doing it to spite management isn't right in most cases.

Doing it because it's the safe way when given limited resources is absolutely right.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14736
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 81):
Doing it because it's the safe way when given limited resources is absolutely right.

What exactly is unsafe about putting bags on the belt more than four at a time?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mcdu
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 82):
What exactly is unsafe about putting bags on the belt more than four at a time?

I am not a ramp person but I am going to say it probably is all the person in the pit can handle on the outbound to stack and load in the limited room of a B737 cargo pit at any one time. Too many more and you get an "I Love Lucy" episode at the candy factory. On the inbound download I suspect it may be all the person can do in sorting destination and transfer bags. Since the number of transfer bags would probably be much greater now than the past a concerted effort needs to be made to sort those local and transfer bags. Also, getting bags from the inbound gate to the connecting gate requires skill to manage. Having a plan to get the bags to proper gate and getting them there in the connecting time isn't as easy as it sounds.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 83):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 82):
What exactly is unsafe about putting bags on the belt more than four at a time?

I am not a ramp person but I am going to say it probably is all the person in the pit can handle on the outbound to stack and load in the limited room of a B737 cargo pit at any one time. Too many more and you get an "I Love Lucy" episode at the candy factory. On the inbound download I suspect it may be all the person can do in sorting destination and transfer bags. Since the number of transfer bags would probably be much greater now than the past a concerted effort needs to be made to sort those local and transfer bags. Also, getting bags from the inbound gate to the connecting gate requires skill to manage. Having a plan to get the bags to proper gate and getting them there in the connecting time isn't as easy as it sounds.

   THIS.

Having bags spill over on you at the bottom of the belt or being rushed while stacking 50+ pound bags in the cargo bin on your knees is a recipe for injury. Also increases the chances of bags getting mixed up or damaged.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14736
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:04 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 84):
Having bags spill over on you at the bottom of the belt or being rushed while stacking 50+ pound bags in the cargo bin on your knees is a recipe for injury.

Agreed, but I've never seen WN rampers unload in anything but a fairly steady stream of bags down the belt, nor have I ever seen WN bags spill over.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:21 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 85):
Agreed, but I've never seen WN rampers unload in anything but a fairly steady stream of bags down the belt, nor have I ever seen WN bags spill over.

I bet you've never seen seen someone get thrown off a bag tug either.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14736
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: USA Today 1/2 Page Ad...Slams Southwest

Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 86):
I bet you've never seen seen someone get thrown off a bag tug either.

Not seen, but a good chunk of my professional time is taken up by various workplace injuries, and I don't find the ramp to be an exceptional workplace in that regard. The vast majority of ramp accidents are caused by employee stupidity or carelessness (although the stupid/careless employee isn't always the one who winds up getting injured).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more

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