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qf2220
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:15 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 87):
Qantas really likes the Boeing 717 and praises the characteristics but do you think that the Boeing 717 will be part of their strategy (via Cobham and as part of "QantasLink" beyond 2020? The current agreement will end in 2018 IIRC.

I (and others on Aust Av threads) don't have clarity on what QF will do with the 717s longer term. There is consensus that they are good for the rougher airstrips used in the FIFO and outback operations that QF serves. The Fokker 100s are similar. You would think that harmonisation on one fleet (which also could conceivably take on some of the Q400 and 738 flying) but what that is, we don't really have a view on yet. We suspect neither does QF!
 
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MD80
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:28 am

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 99):

Thank you!

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 100):

Thank you very much for keeping us updated about the fact that there is no definite decision regarding the "long term"-future of the Boeing 717 of QantasLink.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 86):
If the CS-100 comes out to be as good as it looks on paper I would bet that's the one to replace the B717.

I could also imagine that this aircraft (and it´s longer sister) could be candidates for Boeing 717-replacements at several current operators.
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
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nikeson13
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:06 am

QF2220 made me think... Do you think we can see HA ordering around 10 ATR72's to compliment the ATR42 operated by EM and take up about 8 of their 9 options for the A321neo and deploy a mixed fleet on inter-island ops? Then you can rotate the A321neos from mainland flights to inter-island and vice-versa when demand is needed and that can keep cycles lower? The seat numbers will be about the same compared to the fleet of 717's and with a mixed fleet you can keep the frequency the same. To handle the cargo problem, maybe make the ATR flights at lower yields and more commuter times while the A321 could be for more tourist flight times set up for connection.
its just an idea, no clue if it could be practical.
Nikolas
 
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qf2220
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:47 am

Quoting MD80 (Reply 101):

No problems!! Happy to help.
 
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MD80
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting nikeson13 (Reply 102):
Do you think we can see HA ordering around 10 ATR72's to compliment the ATR42 operated by EM and take up about 8 of their 9 options for the A321neo and deploy a mixed fleet on inter-island ops?

This scenario (or idea) appears to be a much more complex one compared to a single Boeing 717-ops. IMO it´s far easier to operate a streamlined Boeing 717-fleet with additional capacities supplied by the bigger aircraft if needed.

The ordinary inter-island schedule would be much more complicated again with a mix of different aircraft. Hawaiian Air claimed many years ago that even the homogeneous DC-9-50-fleet brought more advantages compared to be nevertheless more flexible but differently-sized DC-9s ranging from theDC-9 -10 to the MD-81. I can also imagine that different aircraft (in our example the Boeing 717, ATR72 + Airbus A321neo) also require different ways of servicing these aircraft, different turnaround times. It´s probably also not the most suitable way to schedule A321neo-aircraft on very short flights, even as a tag-on of a normal duration to the mainland.

IMO the only suitable (capacity-wise) flexibility would have been a Boeing 717-family with the shorter Boeing 717-100 and stretched 717-300 to allow adjustments within the 717-schedules.
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
Airnerd
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 51):
Quoting Airnerd (Reply 50):

I'd think given the extremely short flights, the larger turboprops on the market like the Q400 and ATR and their respective stretch versions ought to be considered

Read the thread... especially the part where it's mentioned that t-props are NOT a logical replacement. HAL needs the capacity that a mainline aircraft provides. If HAL went t-prop they'd likely need a massive fleet that flies an impossible amount of flights. Just as an example, HAL flights roughly 21,500 seats a DAY between the islands. Do the math, it would be a logistical nightmare.

Yeah, I read the thread, thanks for the 'friendly' suggestion. I still think a prop could be a viable solution for them in the future, particularly if Bombardier and or ATR look at further stretches. The 717s seat 123. A q 400 seats 76. The stretch version that's been talked about would seat 90. Sure, they'd need a few more planes to keep moving the same number of seats, but there's nothing impossible about that math. At the end of the day, it doesn't seem like there are too many good options for them out there. The 717 may have been just about the perfect plane for that job really.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 66):
Well DL is leasing their 717's from WN . What is the lease term ? Will DL keep them at lease end ?

From what I have heard, Delta has an option to purchase the 717s when the leases expire.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 74):
Quoting United_fan (Reply 66):
Well DL is leasing their 717's from WN . What is the lease term ? Will DL keep them at lease end ?

Are they leasing from WN or from Boeing Capital? As I recall, most of FL's planes were leased from Boeing.

You are correct about he leases if I have heard correct. I have no specifics about the exact lease's language.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 48):
Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 10):
I think if Delta would buy HA's 717s, they would buy them for parts. They are starting to pick up corrosion, especially in the the wings of two aircraft already mentioned in other threads.

Interesting. Do you have a link?
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 84):
FWIW, I doubt the frames past 60k cycles will have much resale value. Not that the 717 market is liquid anyway.

No, I do not have a link as to why the corrosion developed on the Hawaiian 717s other than it was brought up on Anet earlier and that the aircraft operate in a salt water environment. Like I said before Hawaiian and Delta will fly their 717s until they are uneconomical to operate and repair, which will put them well above 60,000 cycles, making their residual value very low or nil. Northwest flew several of their DC-9-30s over 100,000 cycles or to their next required Heavy maintenance check after 100,00 cycles which the FAA required them to be retired or have an aft pressure bulkhead mod accomplished. I am sure that aft pressure bulkhead mod was taken into consideration when the 717 was produced.
Why retire a perfectly serviceable aircraft when it's residual value is nil. That is one reason Northwest flew their DC9s so long and Delta having acquired Northwest has adopted some of Northwest's strategies and policies.   

[Edited 2014-12-09 11:31:59]
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
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airportugal310
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:31 am

.......irrelrphant

...................

[Edited 2014-12-10 01:37:15]
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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hilram
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:42 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 8):
HAL has mentioned time and time again, that currently, there is nothing on the market that could come close to what the 717 can do. I personally think the Cseries is the one to watch however, for what could be a 717 replacement. HAL will need a small mainline type jet with the people and baggage capacity that meet the needs of the market.

And what about the Comac ARJ21? Is that ruled out?
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
azjubilee
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:38 am

Quoting hilram (Reply 108):
And what about the Comac ARJ21? Is that ruled out?

Not sure. But they have said that there isn't anything on the market today, that is a sufficient replacement.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:34 pm

Quoting MD80 (Reply 87):
Regarding the HA 717s: Is is correct that each aircraft has only one lavatory (RH-side in the aft) and a rather small galley (I would call it "R1")? What the purpose of the stowage space opposite to the single lavatory?

The galleys are small, but more than adequate for the service provided. They contain coffee maker, storage cabinets for napkins & hot cups, a half cart used as storage for juice & water cups, and a trash cart. The forward galley has all of the above plus a half cart with ice, sodas and alcohol for the first class service.

The complimentary neighbor island maps handed out inflight are stored in one of the rear overhead bins...not in a galley and are replenished by the cleaners overnight.

During stops in HNL the caterers service the galley from the R1 door. The crew just tells them what they need (i.e. 2 juice, 1 water, 1 bag ice), the goods are exchanged and the door is closed...its very fast. Boxes of juice cups are available on the neighbor islands as needed on a limited basis. I only needed them at OGG a few times when the plane went HNL-KOA-OGG-KOA-OGG-KOA-HNL

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
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Spacepope
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 108):
And what about the Comac ARJ21? Is that ruled out?

I don't even think that model is certified yet.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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BubbleFrog
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 80):
My interisland record up there is 3 glasses of wine. Not that I wasn't egged on or anything  
Quoting hawkxp (Reply 83):
yea got you matched 3- 175 bottles Koa-Hnl. Did have a hard time finding DL club for connecting flight. (been there at least 50 times)

I admit to being amazed that not only is there any service on such short legs (thanks for the explanation, aloha73g), but THREE?? Did you just inhale them?  

I had trouble finishing two on an EDI-LHR flight recently... And I was strategically placed in two 2.
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hilram
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 111):

I don't even think that model is certified yet.

True, it is in the middle of its certification period now.
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
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airportugal310
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RE: HA 717s, After The A321

Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:05 am

Quoting BubbleFrog (Reply 112):

Haha I didn't say it was easy! And this was on an 18min HNL-OGG segment...so you're right on the "inhalation" method  

I always like to say "if it's free, take three"
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”

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