point2point
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:45 pm

DEN pax stats for November '14 were released a few days ago.

Overall, after about 10 or so months of overall monthly year-over-year total pax number increases at DEN, total pax numbers are very slightly down, going from 4,033,321 in November '13 to 4,029,659 in November '14 - a decrease of 3,662 in total pax numbers or a -0.1%.

http://www.flydenver.com/sites/defau...nagement%20Monthly%20Flydenver.pdf

However, what is curious is that F9 overall stated a 96,500 drop in pax numbers at DEN, or an 11.8% decrease. With such a drop, it would seem that it would put more of a dent in total numbers at DEN, but instead, both AA and DL stated modest gains, and WN stated pax increases of 95,471 (see page 2)....... So is it that with all of this trimming F9 is doing at DEN, WN seems to now have all of these F9 pax taking their flights?

Also to note from the other month to month numbers at DEN from the rest of 2014

http://www.flydenver.com/about/financials/passenger_traffic

F9 had been gaining in pax numbers at DEN up until August, increasing by150,414 total pax to that point, or a 2.3% increase. However, starting with September, F9 shows a 3,968 drop in pax, then October shows a dramatic 54,444 pax drop, or a 6.2% decrease, and now November with the biggest decrease as stated above.

Now.... I think that everyone can agree that F9 historically hasn't really gotten too much respect respect from DEN management et al, but this latest tit-for-tat recently between F9 and DEN airport management certainly has shown that the new owners of F9 aren't going to put up with any guff from the DEN et al, and if they get any.... they now have the ability to shift flights away from DEN, and good for them. However, are they maybe cutting off the nose to save their face here? Is the new F9 management annoying their own loyal base at DEN (who cares about DEN et al, when it's the pax that buy the tickets?) and losing pax to AA, DL, and especially WN? Is F9 taking in enough revenue at all of the other stations they shifted the DEN flights to, as historically when F9 shifted flights away from DEN, good things didn't happen?

Obviously the future quarterly reports will ultimately show if it was a wise decision or not for Indigo to become noisy with DEN management et el and to shift focus away from DEN as abruptly as they did. But also to be considered, luckily for F9 management that fuel prices have dropped as they did now.... since that could be their saving grace for now.

 
 
jeepyjeep
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:01 am

I live in DEN and while this is just anecdotal information, most of my friends and co-workers have left F9 for WN and UA because they don't like the ULCC concept. Personally, I don't mind the ULCC concept, but F9 is no longer flying to where I want to fly, so UA has been getting my business lately.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 96):
TTN has always had physical limitations - its runway length and its terminal size. Ultimately, Frontier could not expand there much more (any?) more, the terminal was almost literally bustin' at the seams last summer.

They had plans to expand the public space in the terminal by taking some of the backroom areas to add to the gate area but I think that has been put on hold until the BRRAM lawsuit is taken care of.just in case Mercer county is ordered to stop expansion.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 95):
You can't help but think about the noise lawsuit BRAAM filed against TTN and the FAA may have something to do with PHL. Most of these types of disagreements are not about who wins or looses but how to survive without the hate and discontent and not rip each other head off in the process.

As I said above, I think expansion plans may have been put on hold due to the lawsuit and that could have influenced PHL in some ways but as Mariner said this area has a big population so serving TTN and PHL are like serving EWR and LGA.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 95):
IMO TTN was beyond maxed out base on infrastructure.

I will agree with that, F9s plans were a bit overzealous as for capicity. That might have changed but the BRRAM lawsuit caused any expansion to be put on hold.

I do think that having overlapping service can help F9 with TTN. When weather delays cause cancelations, this will give them more options to accommodate people on PHL flights. If its due to a controllable delay they might even rent a bus to transport them to Philly
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Frontier14
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 93):
So, we don't know whether it is chicken or egg. Either TTN was stumbling and F9 launched PHL or launching PHL hurt TTN through the change in how US/AA treated them. Chicken or egg, but definitely linked.

There has been some "clucking aka: chirping" in regards to PHL that F9 was able to smoothly add flights there beyond their existing Apple routes. Tie that with the limitations their success at TTN had brought them and it was a no brainer to give PHL a shot.

As others have said, will all of them stick who knows. I would like to see a DEN - PHL reinstated at least for the summer. There should be no problems in filling the seats.

Frontier 14
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 98):
While ATL is a large market and good distance by drive, CLT might not be enough of either and PHL/TTN-CLT as both dailies might be overcapacity for two low fare flights. Many drive to North Carolina

North Carolina is a significant drive from the ATL. I'm not sure I would do it. F9 could easily capture the north ATL and eastern Alabama catchment area by opening CHA. The southern most gateway to the Smokies. To add insult to injury ATL is south of the city and the by-pass around the city stays congested most of the time.

Several years ago I drove from the Omni Hotel on Peachtree St. in what I would call north Atlanta to CHA in one hour and twenty five minutes on a Friday. It saved me $250.00 in airfare for the round trip. An added bonus F9 wouldn't have to worry about WN at CHA.
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rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 104):
North Carolina is a significant drive from the ATL. I'm not sure I would do it

I meant TTN/PHL to ATL, vs. TTN/PHL to CLT distance, not CLT to ATL distance. CLT to ATL distance is very short. RDU to ATL is longer but WN is competing on this route against DL.
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 99):
They've appeared on the pdf version of the route map. I assume a formal announcement, dates and times, is yet to come, as Frontier said.

mariner

PHL-ATL/CLT/ORD is now being sold. Frontier's plans held through; my speculation that it might not go with it was off.

There is sale today only for $19 fares on those routes, on certain days. I'm curious if the daily at both PHL and TTN will continue on these routes after the summer.

There hasn't been a winter yet with daily Chicago service for example, from TTN or ILG and TTN always was the preferred market airport between TTN and ILG atleast from the number of flights that were scheduled from Frontier. We will have to see how TTN and PHL will co-exist when these shorter same market routes are operated at PHL as well during the low travel time.

Also, I'm curious if US will respond on PHL-CLT. A lot of those PHL-CLT flights need seats saved for connection and not O&D, and US might not want to lower the fares and dilute the yields that it gets from business pax that are O&D. US/AA responded on IAD-CLT and CLE-DFW for example, but neither were hub-hub for US.

[Edited 2015-01-07 11:57:56]
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 106):
PHL-ATL/CLT/ORD is now being sold.

There's an interesting article about it in Philly.com which discusses TTN as well as PHL:

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines..._its_presence_in_Philadelphia.html

"Frontier increasing its presence in Philadelphia"

As to TTN - Shurz says:

"We've learned more about how the Trenton market performs," said Daniel Shurz, Frontier senior vice president. "More Florida in the winter when people want to escape the winter weather, and more non-Florida flying in the summer when the weather is better for those trips."

It's the pretty much standard at Frontier now - seasonality. It's also saying that ILG to at least one Florida destination (MCO, I assume) may return next winter, as Frontier has previously suggested.

mariner

[Edited 2015-01-07 11:59:03]
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rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:06 pm

In terms of scheduling, something nice is the PHL-ATL flight from Frontier is not a 6am scheduled flight like the TTN-ATL flight.

F9 might have figured not to overlap the schedules this time like it did with ILG, atleast between ATL and CLT service.

PHL will have early AM CLT and late afternoon/evening ATL, while TTN has the reverse with early AM ATL and late afternoon/evening CLT.

While I know ties between Philly and Raleigh are strong because of the similar pharma tech companies, and low airfares for years from Southwest, Philly and Charlotte might not have had such a developed connection especially with the absurdly high fares US hub hub. Frontier might stimulate new traffic between these markets, atleast during the summer. Will the visiting family forgo the cars for the two daily flights? I'm still a bit skeptical and if US fare matches that's not good, but summer is generally peak season.

[Edited 2015-01-07 12:16:30]
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:33 pm

Trenton flights to Detroit and Minneapolis will return in April, and Frontier will begin flying to Chicago O'Hare from Trenton in April, with the goal of building Chicago traffic and creating more connecting opportunities for customers, Shurz said.

Am I reading that right, connecting opportunties at ORD? I thought ULCC was focused on primarily O&D. If they could get flights to places like LAX or SFO from Trenton via ORD that would be great.
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point2point
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 109):
Am I reading that right, connecting opportunties at ORD? I thought ULCC was focused on primarily O&D. If they could get flights to places like LAX or SFO from Trenton via ORD that would be great.

Probably means connect to DEN........

 
 
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 106):
PHL-ATL/CLT/ORD is now being sold. Frontier's plans held through; my speculation that it might not go with it was off.

I question how long PHL-CLT will last. That one seems like a questionable choice. ATL and ORD have potential.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 110):
Probably means connect to DEN........

Don't think so. As of May, Frontier does offer a decent ORD connection to DEN from PHL, but the return is a bit unwieldy, with a five hour layover at either ATL or ORD. Although TTN-DEN is shown as a potential connection, it isn't coming up for me.

PHL-ORD-LAS is offered as a connection, with a 2 hour plus layover each way. They're offering TTN-LAS as well, thru' ORD, with about an hour layover outbound, but the return layover is four hours or so. I don't think they're banking on connecting traffic - simply not avoiding it.

So I think Shurz's statement was more about the potential future than present reality. Given the increase in aircraft assigned to ORD, I guess they may add other routes/connections for the summer?

By April, ORD will be Frontier's second largest station (in terms of aircraft assigned), and is growing into a fairly substantial crew base. I believe all the new captains will be assigned to ORD.

Quoting point2point (Reply 100):
However, are they maybe cutting off the nose to save their face here? Is the new F9 management annoying their own loyal base at DEN (who cares about DEN et al, when it's the pax that buy the tickets?) and losing pax to AA, DL, and especially WN?

There are certain realities about DEN - it is an over-saturated market, thus pricing pressure, and costs, at least for Frontier, have risen - I can't speak for other airlines.

By summer, I believe about 50% of the flying will be "non-DEN" - given that they're looking for growth, I imagine that percentage will increase.

This doesn't mean that DEN will "go away" - simply that the eggs will be spread over more baskets.

mariner

[Edited 2015-01-08 11:33:44]
aeternum nauta
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 111):
ATL and ORD have potential.

Even that one I'm unsure of viability of ORD-PHL with ORD-TTN as dailies flown in November. F9 has yet to offer daily Chicago from TTN/ILG year round, as seasonal demand drops when Chicago's weather becomes too cold for NJ and PA customers.

ATL has different circumstances with WN not flying EWR-ATL and WN maybe retreating on ATL routes, so maybe PHL-ATL has longer than seasonal viability while F9 also keeps TTN-ATL. I do think it was wise for them to ensure not overlapping scheduling times this time (unlike when ILG-ATL was operated). Maybe it could add UST to PHL's lineup if ORD/CLT disappears after Labor Day, as US would be unlikely to fare match PHL-JAX to F9's PHL-UST. I also think it might be able to apply for EWR's new service airport/new carrier slots (like how PEX did with PHF) and maybe offer EWR-UST, then it could offer something different at TTN where it won't be fare matched against US and UA.

[Edited 2015-01-09 07:19:50]
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:58 am

The Motley Fool is of the opinion that thwy are still in experimental mode.

Frontier Airlines Is Still in Experiment Mode
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...riment-mode.aspx#commentsBoxAnchor
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 112):
but the return layover is four hours or so. I don't think they're banking on connecting traffic - simply not avoiding it.

The perfect amount of time to exit ORD (the airport) and enjoy an authentic Chicago deep dish pizza and get back to the airport. Call ahead to have it waiting or I suppose have it delivered to the airport.
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 113):
Even that one I'm unsure of viability of ORD-PHL with ORD-TTN as dailies flown in November.

They are definitely in the process of killing TTN.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:17 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 115):
The perfect amount of time to exit ORD (the airport) and enjoy an authentic Chicago deep dish pizza and get back to the airport. Call ahead to have it waiting or I suppose have it delivered to the airport.

The only problem is those 4 hours are between 6am and 10am, I don't think you can get a deep dish susage and green pepper pizza at that time

Quoting enilria (Reply 116):
They are definitely in the process of killing TTN.

I dunno, if they are not happy with TTN, then why even stay? Their lease doesn't expire soon (expires in 2018) so its not like they can wait it out. They have 3 planes, pull them out as of the end of the schedule and use them for something more profitable. There are plenty of pax in this area to go around, they can have a presence at PHL without doing much to their pax at TTN. You have the area north of the airport between Trenton and EWR which is Middlesex county 800,000, Monmouth County 630,000, Mercer County 366,000. Thats 1.8 million people that aren't going to go to PHL. EWR isn't known for its cheap flights, WN has a token presence and they have slots preventing them from expansion if they wanted to. Then you have the people South of the airport Bucks county, PA 625,000, Burlington County 400,000 so another 1 million which are within 30 minutes of the airport and less traffic then going thru downtown Philly if they fly from PHL. And I haven't even picked up the fringe areas such as Northwestern Ocean County, Hunterdon County, parts of Mongtgomery County, PA which easily pickup another half million.

Certain cities like St. Louis, Nashville, etc didn't work out, they will try new ones or even if they don't try new ones, you still have Florida, Atlanta, Raleigh, Chicago, Charlotte all doing well. If the NIMBYs win their lawsuit perhaps F9 changes its mind but I believe them when they say they are still committed to TTN. They can do both.
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rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:23 pm

I'd assume F9 will keep PHL-MCO, PHL-MIA and potential exists to keep PHL-ATL year round and these will duplicate TTN (although it might be TTN-FLL for So. Florida).

I think F9 operating dailies on ORD, TPA and CLT might not be viable at both TTN and PHL as a year round.

TPA demand is slow in September and October, and I don't think Southwest has imminent plans to exit PHL-TPA. Meanwhile US, Southwest and Spirit (out of ACY) are a lot of flights and competition, and there are low fares out of BWI. Southwest WGAs as low as $59 one-way out of BWI.

Currently, F9's PHL-TPA has daily while TTN-TPA isn't this winter, but that might be because of aircraft usage. I wouldn't be surprised if F9 sees better viability on PHL-ATL as a year-round over PHL-TPA.

The looming question is if F9 rolls out any PHL-West flights this summer, but those might be seasonal also, and those flights would only be complementary to TTN's role rather potentially diluting it since F9 can't operate TTN-West anyways.

But outside of summer, I'd assume TTN still is the dominant F9 airport between TTN and PHL.

[Edited 2015-01-11 07:04:53]
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 117):
The only problem is those 4 hours are between 6am and 10am, I don't think you can get a deep dish susage and green pepper pizza at that time

They don't know me. Back in the day I ordered fifty hot wings from Hooters in Nashville to carry back to Alaska. Hooters opened up early so we could pick them up enroute on the drive to BNA. By the time my WN flight got over Rapid City sterring a course for SEA there was a nice aroma permeating from the overhead bins and later on my AS flight.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 116):
They are definitely in the process of killing TTN.

Excluding the outcome of the BRAAM lawusit; based on all the positive hidden jewel type comments Shurz has made to the media both long and short term I suspect TTN is here for the long run. Anything less from the senior leadership would constitute talking out of ones a$$.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:34 pm

Another reason F9 should IMO consider CHA. While many are drive-in visitor more and more fly-ins visiting the Great Smokey Mountains National Park. from International destinations . F9 of course offers LTD service between DEN and TYS. You have to wonder why TYS continues to thrive but other larger cities face chopping block. Frankly TYS doesn't have much to offer when compared to BNA or MEM. CHA would give F9 another gateway to capture the international crowd who would otherwise fly into ATL.
http://www.theleafchronicle.com/stor...es-sees-million-visitors/21627529/
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
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Frontier14
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 121):
You have to wonder why TYS continues to thrive but other larger cities face chopping block.

If you look at the average fare premium that F9 and UA are getting from DEN-TYS ($300+/-) there is your answer. It is practically double the BNA - DEN fare. Looks to be sufficient O&D to make it feasible "for the time being".

Frontier 14
 
n7371f
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:00 am

For all of you who talk about F9 but never seem to fly them, I flew a/c 212 last night DEN-LAS after the atrocious Broncos game. Anyway...very nice flight...nice inflight crew...seemed to be only one in vicinity to buy DirecTV (to watch NFL Network lament Broncos stinker).

Also had a captain flying back home after shift ended in DEN. Several flight attendants stopped and talked to him and overheard a few things along with interchanges with flight attendants.

No one thrilled with move to red-eye strong operations. Surprise!

Seat rows on 320's have been reset to prepare for additional rows and the new generation 320's with the interactive console at boarding door haven't been updated - so if someone rings a call button, the rows don't match up.

Flight attendants frustrated with "constant" change of in-flight prices, offerings and rules. Took f/a a few minutes to figure out latest offerings and "special" offerings and prices.

Crew still seemed to have the old Frontier spirit - pride about their company.

Also of note...signage at DIA has mostly been changed to the new logo and lettering. Ticket counters and gate counters have new colors and signage.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting n7371f (Reply 123):
so if someone rings a call button,


Do they still have those. How much is F9 going the charge passengers to answer a call button.   
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:14 pm

Regarding Carolina tourism and F9's role in it, with F9 at CLT and RDU and seasonally at GSO, would it be viable for F9 to consider AVL also perhaps for PHL and/or IAD? IAD-CLT didn't work because of US interfering and setting fares low on it's high frequency service.

Out of AVL, I noticed that US only has service into CLT, and not DCA and PHL and my guess is low likelihood US would respond by putting mainline service into DCA and PHL, just because of Frontier.

From the visitnc.com site, AVL seems to be marketed also. There are scenic mountains and recreational activities, which I'd think could be popular especially with the affluent types in Northern Virginia that live near Dulles. It is 457 miles by drive, so possibly long enough also by car to be viable for flight.

Would an ULCC like F9 do well in that type of market or it is too niche? NK is big in MYR, and F9 hasn't added a beach SC destination. A PHL-CHS would likely be fare matched against US since US already offers 3x daily and B6 already offers DCA-CHS.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 124):
Do they still have those. How much is F9 going the charge passengers to answer a call button.

No fees for that but they do have a fee for beating a dead horse. 
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:43 pm

Because the TTN thread 12 was locked and I didn't want to start a new thread I wanted to post the link below as it relates to loads and fares out of TTN. The data is not what I would call the official RITA data; it does appear to be ticket sale averages. TTN" target="_blank">http://www.faremeasure.com/View-Airport.cfm?AirportCode=TTN

Any airport can be searched.
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 127):
Because the TTN thread 12 was locked and I didn't want to start a new thread I wanted to post the link below as it relates to loads and fares out of TTN. The data is not what I would call the official RITA data; it does appear to be ticket sale averages. TTN" target="_blank">http://www.faremeasure.com/View-Airport.cfm?AirportCode=TTN

Any airport can be searched.

The fares seem to be higher than DOT which might be the inclusion of taxes?
The traffic is close but not exactly the same as DOT.

The data is domestic only and seems to be only available through 2Q2013. My guess is that it is old DOT data.
 
ryanrap1
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:27 pm

Any chance of F9 returning to SAT?
 
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Frontier14
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting ryanrap1 (Reply 129):
Any chance of F9 returning to SAT?

If they would, my guess most likely would be from ORD and probably seasonal.

Frontier 14
 
F9Animal
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:36 am

Dark news coming tomorrow. F9 is full speed ahead to reach the bottom. Siegel is a jerk. So is Indigo.  
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pdx
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:09 am

That's what happens when you offer $29 ow fares DENMIA. One day sale ends today so ya better hurry!
 
SunsetLimited
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 131):
Dark news coming tomorrow. F9 is full speed ahead to reach the bottom. Siegel is a jerk. So is Indigo.  

Outsourcing DEN? Sad, if true...but not surprising considering who's running the show. I'm glad I had the chance to work for the airline when the people in charge actually gave a damn about their employees. Frontier is Frontier in name only, I'm afraid.
Spread hope like fire.
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:07 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 131):

Dark news coming tomorrow. F9 is full speed ahead to reach the bottom. Siegel is a jerk. So is Indigo

What's going on??
 
pointer
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:06 am

Please do share? Very interested to find out what is going on?
 
F9Animal
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:31 am

I need to be cautious here guys. I also need to consider that there are a few on here that are deeply nervous right now, and saying it here would make the situation more tense than it already is. I can say that it won't come as a shock.

Speaking of..... Anyone hear that Spirit has announced they are outsourcing all stations except FLL?

Also, what system does Spirit use?

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/201...spirirt-airlines-to-outsource.html

[Edited 2015-01-16 00:35:41]

There are some other developments that will come out soon. I have a feeling big big changes are on the horizon.


[Edited 2015-01-16 00:40:36]
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 131):
Dark news coming tomorrow.
Quoting SunsetLimited (Reply 133):
Outsourcing DEN? Sad, if true...but not surprising considering who's running the show. I'm glad I had the chance to work for the airline when the people in charge actually gave a damn about their employees. Frontier is Frontier in name only, I'm afraid.

I've been predicting this for a while. The writing was on the wall when they started shrinking DEN dramatically.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2126
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:39 pm

For those of you interested, I started a new TTN thread on the news that it has been announced that Mercer County will start plans for replacing the terminal.

Frontier TTN Thread- Part 13 (by Jerseyguy Jan 16 2015 in Civil Aviation)

response should be made in that thread
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 136):

I need to be cautious here guys. I also need to consider that there are a few on here that are deeply nervous right now, and saying it here would make the situation more tense than it already is. I can say that it won't come as a shock.

Then why even say anything? It is (respectfully) like the Facebook posts where people say "OMG OMG OMG" and then after 20 people ask "Oh my gosh, what's up?" they never reply. What's the point?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 136):
I need to be cautious here guys. I also need to consider that there are a few on here that are deeply nervous right now, and saying it here would make the situation more tense than it already is. I can say that it won't come as a shock.

You opened the door. Bit late to try and shut it again.

Quoting SunsetLimited (Reply 133):
Outsourcing DEN?

Duh. I'll say it if no one else will - that's the present rumor.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 136):
There are some other developments that will come out soon. I have a feeling big big changes are on the horizon.

Duh, again. Indigo didn't buy Frontier for what it was - to go on doing the same thing and expect a different result?

Quoting enilria (Reply 137):
I've been predicting this for a while. The writing was on the wall when they started shrinking DEN dramatically.

And some have been saying it since they outsourced the out stations.

On a different note, it looks as if the next A320 (w/sharklets) is coming from Monarch:

http://www.jethros.org.uk/previous/previous_updates.htm

"WFU 11 Jan 15 Leeds - Birmingham 12 Jan 15 Onward to Frontier as N228FR"

mariner

[Edited 2015-01-16 10:59:06]
aeternum nauta
 
c152driver
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:33 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:46 pm

The news is out:

Frontier to outsource Denver airport ramp, reservations work

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...-reservations-work?source=infinite

It makes their feel-good "How great it is to work for Frontier" videos that featured reservations and ramp employees look silly now.

What exactly do airlines consider their core competency these days?
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4211
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 139):
Then why even say anything? It is (respectfully) like the Facebook posts where people say "OMG OMG OMG" and then after 20 people ask "Oh my gosh, what's up?" they never reply. What's the point?

I pretty much gave you a clue with Spirit. I also know there are a few F9 employees on here, and I don't think it was fair for me to share it before the company did.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 136):
Speaking of..... Anyone hear that Spirit has announced they are outsourcing all stations except FLL?
Quoting mariner (Reply 140):
Duh, again. Indigo didn't buy Frontier for what it was - to go on doing the same thing and expect a different result?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Duh? Really Mariner?

What was announced today is disgusting! Pathetic! It is all about the mighty dollar. Who the heck cares about the 1100 individuals who busted their butts during the absolute pathetic executions of terrible management? Those 1100 individuals have taken several slaps to the face, and got screwed without lube. Today is a tragedy in my eyes, and the official end of what made Frontier what it was. Siegel is an evil jerk, a pathetic excuse for life, and has a history of being cruel. Things have been so bad, they have an armed guard at the GO. In fact, Snake Siegel was told not to be at the GO today, as his security detail told him not to.

F9 could have still been profitable with its own employees. This is all about greed. Nothing less, and nothing more.
God bless those affected by this awful news.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 142):
It is all about the mighty dollar.

No argument from me. It's about the dollar at United, too:

http://www.binarytribune.com/2015/01...ce-jobs-as-a-cost-reducing-measure

"United Airlines share price up, to outsource jobs as a cost-reducing measure"

It's the world in which we live and I remember too well Frontier's continuing losses.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Airportguy1971
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:49 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:29 pm

I spent 11 years working along side these people. When I left in 2011 to persue my degree, it was the hardest thing I had ever done. The people who built Frontier into what it achieved at it's pinnacle are some of the finest, most competent people in the service industry. From the Scout Program taking special care of our passengers who needed special assistance, to the Ticket Counter and Gate agents to the folks in The Baggage Service Office, I'm proud to have worked with you. I am proud of what Frontier Airlines was. You people built a Reputation of Excellence. Don't let this diminish what you accomplished. What you are leaving behind is NOT truly Frontier Airlines. Bad management took that from you a long time ago...

[Edited 2015-01-16 12:32:35]
 
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mke717spotter
Posts: 2098
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 143):
No argument from me. It's about the dollar at United, too:

http://www.binarytribune.com/2015/01...ce-jobs-as-a-cost-reducing-measure

"United Airlines share price up, to outsource jobs as a cost-reducing measure"

It definitely appears to have its drawbacks though:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...-reservations-work?source=infinite

"United Airlines' similar outsourcing of United Express baggage handling to Simplicity Ground Services has produced thousands of delayed and lost bags for United passengers during the recent holiday travel season."
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 145):
It definitely appears to have its drawbacks though:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...-reservations-work?source=infinite

"United Airlines' similar outsourcing of United Express baggage handling to Simplicity Ground Services has produced thousands of delayed and lost bags for United passengers during the recent holiday travel season."

Sure, it does - or can. It depends on who gets the contract, the attitude and the training given, I guess.

From a long distance away, I hear little but praise for whoever does the Frontier ground handling at ORD, for example, but I'm sure there are some complaints. It goes with the territory.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5332
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting c152driver (Reply 141):
What exactly do airlines consider their core competency these days?

Branding and sales.
 
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knope2001
Posts: 2903
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:43 pm

This apparently affects Res as well as airport. These guys have plenty of airport experience--anyone know if the have a precidence for taking res? I wonder if they will take over the existing res facilities and hire their own people or will the run res elsewhere.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1766
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:06 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 147):
Branding and sales.

they still arent good at sales and still rely on 3rd party vendors quite abit!

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