PlanesNTrains
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:13 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 142):
I pretty much gave you a clue with Spirit.

Well, I didn't need a clue as it seemed like it was likely coming, and I really didn't care (personally) one way or the other because I have no connection to any of it.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 142):
I also know there are a few F9 employees on here, and I don't think it was fair for me to share it before the company did.

This was my point. Why even bring it up and hint at "big changes" in a negative way, which creates drama and anxiety, if you are concerned about people hearing about it?

Again, I don't personally care but it seems odd to "go there" if you don't want to "go there".

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
F9Animal
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 150):
This was my point. Why even bring it up and hint at "big changes" in a negative way, which creates drama and anxiety, if you are concerned about people hearing about it?

Again, I don't personally care but it seems odd to "go there" if you don't want to "go there".

-Dave

I went there..... It is a Frontier thread. I was giving a heads up of that something was happening the next day, and it was not good. I am not the first, nor am I the last to do such a thing. I was being cautious not to potentially hurt anyone.

I don't have to justify myself.
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antoniemey
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:26 am

Quoting c152driver (Reply 141):
What exactly do airlines consider their core competency these days?

Moving money from consumers to corporate suppliers.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
freakyrat
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:32 am

They are going to risk alienating more of their passengers especially if they have any luggage meltdowns like United did. The employees at Denver are some of the best. Last month while waiting for my flight back to DFW, I observed a group of special ones who were working an Orlando flight from my gate. A daughter and her elderly mother missed their flight to Orlando and F9 did not have two seats available till the next morning. These employees got them an electric cart back to the terminal also got them a hotel for the night and rebooked on the next mornings flight. Outstanding.

On another front reference Denver, I really wonder what F9's costs are for doing business in Denver. I mean if you dismantle the hub because you can't make money with connecting passengers on full flights something is terribly wrong.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:57 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 153):
I mean if you dismantle the hub because you can't make money with connecting passengers on full flights something is terribly wrong.

Frontier still has connections, and not just at DEN. They allow connections at CLE, CVG, IAD, ORD, PHX, SLC and - presumably, when the new routes start - PHL. You can book PHL-ORD-LAS now. And TTN-ORD-LAS, although the return is a four hour layover.

Flying ORD-LAS? You can do it as a non stop or through DEN. Same-same CVG-PHX. SFO-IAH? Non-stop or through PHX.

They cancelled a bunch of cities that were connection heavy, and without being able to charge a corresponding fare.

mariner

[Edited 2015-01-16 23:12:42]
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:19 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 151):
I went there..... It is a Frontier thread. I was giving a heads up of that something was happening the next day, and it was not good. I am not the first, nor am I the last to do such a thing. I was being cautious not to potentially hurt anyone.

I don't have to justify myself.

Of course you don't. If telling people that bad news is coming but they can wait to find out what it is is somehow a good thing, then fine. I'm not involved so I'll leave it at that.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
F9Animal
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 155):
Of course you don't. If telling people that bad news is coming but they can wait to find out what it is is somehow a good thing, then fine. I'm not involved so I'll leave it at that.

Let's just say I had come out, and spilled it.... And let's say F9 decided to postpone the announcement, or I had gotten the information wrong from trusted sources... It would have been irresponsible, and "could" have put stress on people working there. However, my sources were correct, so technically, I did nothing wrong... If anything, I simply stated that bad news was coming. Whatever the case may be, it is tragic. Some very good friends and dedicated workers were crushed today.

I also never said any of this was a good thing. Here I am, defending myself again. Yawn......
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 156):
Let's just say I had come out, and spilled it.... And let's say F9 decided to postpone the announcement, or I had gotten the information wrong from trusted sources... It would have been irresponsible, and "could" have put stress on people working there.

I absolutely understand what you are saying. I respect your concern and compassion for the folks at Frontier. I appreciate your thoughtfulness to the situation. Those are all sincere statements.

I just questioned why even bring it up then - that's all.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
F9Animal
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:43 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 157):
I absolutely understand what you are saying. I respect your concern and compassion for the folks at Frontier. I appreciate your thoughtfulness to the situation. Those are all sincere statements.

I just questioned why even bring it up then - that's all.

I brought it up because I know many follow F9 here, and more or less wanted to let people know something was likely coming, and it didn't sound good. I have obviously lost respect for F9, I won't deny that. My heart hurt really bad when I saw so many great people get hurt. And, it happened again. Yes, we all knew this was likely to happen. I still have many friends in the skies, and if anything, I really do have hopes that F9 is successful. Yes, I despise Siegel..... It is also personal, because he took things away from me at US Airways.

So, yes, I was just trying to relay it for us airline nerds. I was also being cautious as well.  
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:19 pm

Did I miss something?

The website and the Facebook Frontier websites are saying "new service" - ATL to AUS, IND and MIA, IAD-AUS and IND-MIA:

http://www.facebook.com/flyfrontier?fref=ts

I haven't seen a press release. Are they a thing of the past?

mariner
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sunking737
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 159):
Did I miss something?

The website and the Facebook Frontier websites are saying "new service" - ATL to AUS, IND and MIA, IAD-AUS and IND-MIA:

http://www.facebook.com/flyfrontier?fref=ts

I haven't seen a press release. Are they a thing of the past?

mariner

looks like just today. 1 hr ago my time
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rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:39 pm

Of the routes:
ATL-AUS
ATL-IND
ATL-MIA
IAD-AUS
IND-MIA

ATL-AUS seems like it could be a bloodbath with WN. While F9 might be feeling WN will reduce ATL, ATL-AUS doesn't seem like a route WN will cease but instead valiantly defend.

ATL-MIA makes the most sense in the mix, and I can see long term not just seasonal.

Why is F9 going with ATL-AUS and ATL-IND from ATL say over ATL-LAS?

From IAD, IAD-AUS seems like it has better potential in the summer, but it might struggle in the low season.

IND-MIA is interesting. Wouldn't it make more sense for a launch in the cold months?

[Edited 2015-01-21 10:53:14]
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 161):
ATL-AUS seems like it could be a bloodbath with WN. While F9 might be feeling WN will reduce ATL, ATL-AUS doesn't seem like a route WN will cease.

Based on what the CEO has said recently, I'm not sure they regard Southwest as their strongest competitor these days.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 161):
From IAD, IAD-AUS seems like it has better potential in the summer, but it might struggle in the low season.

IND-MIA is interesting. Wouldn't it make more sense for a launch in the cold months?

I guess IAD-AUS could be seasonal, or they could make it so. They're all starting on March 6, and so maybe IND-MIA gets a bit of a kick start, and it's showing as a one-stop through ATL - interesting move. Same-same IAD-(ATL)-AUS, at least on the booking engine. At what point does ATL become a focus city, I wonder?

mariner

[Edited 2015-01-21 11:24:23]
aeternum nauta
 
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Frontier14
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:45 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 159):
The website and the Facebook Frontier websites are saying "new service" - ATL to AUS, IND and MIA, IAD-AUS and IND-MIA:

http://www.facebook.com/flyfrontier?fref=ts

I haven't seen a press release. Are they a thing of the past?

It would appear that Frontier is now focusing their information distribution via social media networks. Who knows for sure, F9 is still changing. They have changed their employee email distributions as well.

Frontier 14
 
crazytoaster
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:16 pm

The IAD - AUS and IND - MIA are both one stops in ATL. Looks like a 50 minute turn. All pretty interesting adds, perhaps more buildup in ATL in the future?
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 164):
The IAD - AUS and IND - MIA are both one stops in ATL. Looks like a 50 minute turn.

I figured these were nonstops. My bad. The way the sales were made it look like these were. Rarely does Frontier advertise sales for 1-stops.

Quoting mariner (Reply 159):
I haven't seen a press release. Are they a thing of the past?

Maybe Frontier is also doing away with route addition press releases to not make route additions a big deal formally, and likewise when it cuts the route, it doesn't want it to be on people's mind too long. Of course in a small town like TTN, the newspaper will pick up the story of a route cancellation or addition. When it opens a new station altogether, like MIA, it does get more attention and maybe more press release worthy.

I'm still wondering if it has intentions to open more stations. A lot of stations were cut like MDT. I'd think it could open in PIT and maybe BOS (or PVD). It'd be interesting if it opened BOS with ATL-BOS before JetBlue. Likewise, I think ATL-PIT might have potential with WN weakening it's position there with only 2x daily frequencies. I'd think an opening of new market would probably go with 5 routes (atleast 2 pure leisure) to each station to create some buzz in the local market.

[Edited 2015-01-21 17:22:06]
 
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:20 am

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 161):

IMHO the AUS routes won't work, but AUS often surprises.

It looks like F9 is attempting to displace WN from ATL a little faster. It may work and the former AirTran route planner just left for AS giving ATL even fewer friends in DAL.

WN will fight for AUS-ATL.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 165):
I figured these were nonstops. My bad. The way the sales were made it look like these were. Rarely does Frontier advertise sales for 1-stops.

They haven't had a lot of one-steps to sell.

Most of the one-stops presently in the schedule are alternatives to non-stops, but is a different airline now. The past is another country - they did things differently there.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 165):
I'm still wondering if it has intentions to open more stations. A lot of stations were cut like MDT. I'd think it could open in PIT and maybe BOS (or PVD).

No idea. I've puzzled about BOS for a long time - here. I think they still have to come to terms with the whole New England thing (including NYC) but they may not see any urgency.

I'm happy to wait till they tell me.

Quoting enilria (Reply 166):
IMHO the AUS routes won't work, but AUS often surprises.

You mean - all one of it?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 166):
WN will fight for AUS-ATL.

I looked at the Southwest WGA calendar in June and the WN fares were set at $139, and WN offers 2 r/ts. I think the fare is high enough that Frontier can set a downward effect on fares and more stimulation. Southwest might not have enough nonstop frequencies to scare Frontier away, but if Southwest fare matched on all connection and nonstop itineries and Delta joined in, the combined frequencies all at low fares might outshine the Frontier flight to scare off Frontier from continuing to keep the flight..

And on second thought, I'm not sure if F9 will have a major impact on low faring with the 1-stop routing. If more people are on that second leg but are originating from Dulles, I don't think F9 would be too content since it prefer O&D and not connection (even though these are really through pax). But F9 wouldn't be discounting the ATL-AUS sector too much at that point to fill up the plane, and likely not really perturbing Southwest.

The F9 ATL focus is shaping up with DEN, ORD and MIA now, two flights to the Philly - NJ region, and Dulles, IND, CLE and AUS. MCO is removed (and it's no surprise since many GA residents traveling on leisure (theme parks) drive to the Orlando region.

The IND-ATL flight seems most out of place out of ATL since F9 is directly competing against DL and WN, and I don't think the markets are large enough for a third carrier, and don't foresee WN dropping the route. It relies on IND-ATL for connections (e.g. IND-ATL-LGA) since it dropped IND-MDW.

I'm curious on If F9 added ATL-PHL to get a leg up over NK from adding it, why isn't it interested in ATL-LAS for the purpose of adding it before NK? That'd offer more excitement to ATL based locals that are becoming famiilar with F9, than an IND flight.

[Edited 2015-01-21 19:21:50]
 
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 167):

IAD/ATL-AUS seems like two routes to me.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:20 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 169):
IAD/ATL-AUS seems like two routes to me.

It's just one flight a day ATL-AUS that - happily - draws on both ATL and IAD.

If you prefer to see it as two flights to AUS, go for it. Like Blackadder, I think it is a cunning plan.  

mariner

[Edited 2015-01-21 21:13:20]
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enilria
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:59 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 170):

I guess I placed too much Mr. Bean-like confidence in the earlier posters.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:47 pm

Ben M of USA Today travel posted a picture of Bennie on N951FR being deiced at LGA in nor'easter Juno.

Unfortunately I can't find the picture to post it. Bennie made it to many syndicated newspapers owned by Gannet and USA Today. If anybody else want to search for the article it is titled "Airlines cancel thousands of flights ahead of storm"
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:34 pm

N228FR at BOH:

http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/n228fr/Interesting

No tail yet. I assume that will happen when it gets to GYR.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 173):
No tail yet. I assume that will happen when it gets to GYR.

according to the description in this photo. Larry the Lynx will be the tail and it will get painted in the US (so probably GYR).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16214216800
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jeepyjeep
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 174):
according to the description in this photo. Larry the Lynx will be the tail and it will get painted in the US (so probably GYR).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16214216800

Interesting! I wonder if it's just not finished yet, is a mistake, or if there was an intentional but slight change in livery.
The arrow under the word "Frontier" is blue in this photo. It's green on N227FR.
 
BravoEchoNov
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:10 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 173):
N228FR at BOH:

Slight livery change. The green arrow on N227FR is blue on N228FR.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting jeepyjeep (Reply 175):
I wonder if it's just not finished yet, is a mistake, or if there was an intentional but slight change in livery.

The tail isn't a mistake. They haven't put the animal tails on in Europe on the last couple of aircraft (to come from Europe) because of exactly this - the eagle-eyed spotters in Europe who seem to get photos the moment the aircraft comes out of the point shop.

They know they can't keep a complete lid on it - there are eagle-eyed spotters at GYR too - but they would prefer to have some control over when it is revealed, or nearer the date of the official reveal.

The Europeans are already keeping an eye open for any hint of N229FR - and a couple have already mentioned it - even though it wont happen for another few weeks.

mariner
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jeepyjeep
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 177):
The tail isn't a mistake. They haven't put the animal tails on in Europe on the last couple of aircraft (to come from Europe) because of exactly this - the eagle-eyed spotters in Europe who seem to get photos the moment the aircraft comes out of the point shop.

I was referring to the blue arrow on N228FR vs. the green arrow on N227FR.  
 
rampart
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting BravoEchoNov (Reply 176):
Slight livery change. The green arrow on N227FR is blue on N228FR.

Is it actually teal-blue, like the cheatline in the pre-1970s color scheme?

-Rampart
 
smoot4208
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:09 am

In another sign that IAD is struggling, IAD-TPA ends of Mrach 4th. That's right before the high spring break season.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:02 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 179):
Is it actually teal-blue, like the cheatline in the pre-1970s color scheme?

The teal of the 70s appears to be a lot darker than the new livery
http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac...ines%20737-200%20Orig%20Colors.jpg
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rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 180):
In another sign that IAD is struggling, IAD-TPA ends of Mrach 4th. That's right before the high spring break season.

Surprised but not too surprised, I guess. I did see IAD always having more Florida market $19-79 fare specials than TTN and PHL but most of the specials are for days within 2-3 weeks out, not in March yet. The more discounting it needs to promote the route, the less the local market is naturally attracted to the general pricing that Frontier is offering.

For comparison, even Southwest load factors on it's new DCA-TPA isn't gangbusters, so maybe F9 didn't see a bright future for the route even for just March.

For the other Florida routes, I'd think F9 might stick on IAD-FLL just because UA doesn't fly it, and maybe IAD-MCO.

[Edited 2015-02-02 20:34:18]
 
smoot4208
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:56 am

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 182):
For the other Florida routes, I'd think F9 might stick on IAD-FLL just because UA doesn't fly it, and maybe IAD-MCO.

I would think the remaining markets (FLL/PBI/RSW) stand a better chance as UA is not on them. MCO is probably safe as well.

On a separate note, ILG doesn't appear to be doing very well either. TPA fares are going for $59 on a good amount of days throughout March and MCO is going for $39 or $59 on most days.

Last September, F9 said ILG-DEN/DTW/ATL/MDW were going seasonal but that they'd come back next spring/summer only to cancel the services for good a month later. I believe F9 has no intention of seasonally resuming ILG after their flights end in April.
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 183):
On a separate note, ILG doesn't appear to be doing very well either.
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 183):
I believe F9 has no intention of seasonally resuming ILG after their flights end in April.

I agree. It's too bad because I figured ILG was originally set up to complement TTN (atleast with some different routes: IAH and DEN) and be a reliever in a way as TTN filled up with flights. However, scheduling was more redundant but weaker scheduling, and the last remaining markets (MCO, TPA) are now sold from both PHL and TTN.

The main benefit of ILG just remains free parking now, but TTN is supposedly filled and PHL runs into issues that US might fare match down the road.

I'd love to see an ILG-PIT-ORD with a flight going out in the morning, and returning mid to late afternoon, and thought it could capture some traffic that won't pay US's high fares.

If I was taking a family of four on a once in a year vacation, I'd be wary to book a Florida bound flight in March out of ILG, if there is likelihood that F9 will drop it like it just did with IAD-TPA.

I do notice that kayak includes TTN with PHL search, but doesn't include ILG (which is actually closer), so that might have hurt ILG bookings.

As far as IAD goes, I'm unsure if IAD Florida is so hot. Atleast at the last $19 fare special, PHL-MIA had a $19 special that disappeared within 4 hours as it likely sold out, but IAD had 4 Florida routes with $19-39 all day. IAD also has a history of United, JetBlue and Southwest not able to keep IAD-South Florida and IAD being a less favored airport over DCA.

Probably also south of BWI, Florida air demand tapers off but is steady in Philly, much more stronger in NJ NY, and points north and colder from the Mid-Atlantic.

[Edited 2015-02-03 07:28:12]
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 184):
If I was taking a family of four on a once in a year vacation, I'd be wary to book a Florida bound flight in March out of ILG, if there is likelihood that F9 will drop it like it just did with IAD-TPA.

Sadly this is the last thing a family vacation should have to be worried about.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
lpdal
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:27 pm

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/16424872865_b1584e8a0a_c.jpg
After stepping back into FLL's Concourse C from the ramp (Silver Airways Saab 340B+), I noticed this. A very interesting route, FLL-STL-FLL! I'd love to fly it! How long has F9 been running this route? Do they still have Stretch seating and Live TV?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7311/15803125923_8403e90474_c.jpg
Old and new Frontier logos at the ticketing counter in FLL's Terminal 1.

Thanks,

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:01 pm

I don't think TTN-ORD that replaces MDW will be a year round route.

Some reasons:
a. Frontier might be struggling to profitably fill seats between TTN and Chicago in the Winter. Atleast there have been a lot of discounting. Granted Chicago weather is harsh, but TTN-MDW has has been flown from F9 for awhile. Fares at $52, for fare on a Monday morning flight to Chicago isn't a sign of strength, in my opinion.
b. Limited at TTN, it can probably focus on TTN to Florida, where it can increase a market like TTN-RSW to daily service next year. The more Florida TTN gets the more TTN looks like NK's ACY.
c. Frontier already launching PHL-ORD. Of the two, I'd think F9 would duke it out to keep PHL-ORD year round.
d. From the Mercer to EWR area where TTN also pulls from, Southwest offers advance WGA EWR-MDW for $118 WGA, and United has weekend specials for EWR-ORD for $228 r/t.

Lost out of TTN-MDW this season is a Sunday flight. TTN-MDW operates 3x weekly but with a lesser desirable Saturday flight. PHL-ORD which starts daily has almost a two month lead in over TTN-ORD as a daily flight.

[Edited 2015-02-03 11:04:25]
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 187):
I don't think TTN-ORD that replaces MDW will be a year round route.

Maybe, maybe not.

In deep winter, I'm not seeing $52 fares for the next couple of weeks, indeed the "less desirable" Saturday flights seem to be pulling the highest fares - $172 (ow) this Saturday and $290 (ow) on 2./14 with neither date being offered on Orbitz, or not to me.

But sure, Frontier's concept of seasonality does seem to confuse some, especially on the OAG threads, and both TTN-MDW and TTN-ORD go against the grain of cold weather to warm weather, as IAD-ORD does, and ORD-SLC, so anything's possible.

However, the fleet will be in better shape next winter, as in more aircraft and no seat installation issues, so I guess we'll know more than. I'm uncertain about the future of MDW anyway, so I'll wait and see what happens.

mariner

[Edited 2015-02-03 11:44:06]
aeternum nauta
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 188):
In deep winter, I'm not seeing $52 fares for the next couple of weeks,

It's being sold that low in March. Saturday fares are higher than Wednesday and Monday, but Sunday travel demand in general tend to be higher than Saturday.

2/14 fares might be higher than normal with the uptick of leisure travel because of President's Day. In March, PHL-ORD goes online possibly siphoning off some potential customers that would have used TTN-MDW.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 189):
It's being sold that low in March.

I'm sure, and even lower on 2/25 - before PHL-ORD starts. There are a lot of places on sale today for $39, and I don't really see the point of selling themselves as low-fare airline unless they offer low fares.

Even so, TTN is a notorious "late booker" to the non-Florida routes (and even some of the Florida routes), as has been discussed before.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 189):
2/14 fares might be higher than normal with the uptick of leisure travel because of President's Day. In March, PHL-ORD goes online possibly siphoning off some potential customers that would have used TTN-MDW.

In a perfect world that may be true, and President's Day may be affecting 2./14 - hope so - but that doesn't explain 2/7.

And sure, PHL-ORD may affect TTN-ORD - or may complement it. You may be quite right about the seasonality, but since it hasn't happened yet, I don't know.

I don't know why IAD-CUN, originally announced as 1 x weekly, reaches peak frequency last week in February (4 x weekly) but then drops to 2 x weekly for March, supposedly strong Spring Break, but I assume Apple is calling some of that.

mariner

[Edited 2015-02-03 12:23:10]
aeternum nauta
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 190):
In a perfect world that may be true, and President's Day may be affecting 2./14

Or Valentines Day in and of itself which is also on 2/14. I saw a Valentines Day fare sale announced on Facebook based on the complaints it appears to have been offered to only a few cities.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:13 pm

Just got an email, effective March 7th, miles expire after 6 MONTHS of inactivity. I know this will start the Frontier bashing race to the bottom comments, but if you don't fly 2 times a year are you really a frequent flyer?

[Edited 2015-02-04 14:14:04]
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 192):
but if you don't fly 2 times a year are you really a frequent flyer?

But if F9 keeps opening and closing markets (here today; gone tomorrow) at their current rate; flying twice a year might be a feat in and of itself. I now have one market that that F9 can take me that I haven't needed to fly to in a awful long time.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
masseybrown
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:15 pm

There was television report yesterday of a near riot requiring police intervention at a Frontier gate in CLE when people were kept waiting twelve hours for a delayed departure. No indication was given whether the flight eventually departed or not. Apparently the initial problem was an inbound plane down for mx in Tampa.

A contributing factor was the gate time for the 6:15AM departure was 4:15AM meaning the pax had gotten little/no sleep the night before and then were strung along all day waiting.
 
rtalk25
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 193):
But if F9 keeps opening and closing markets

I think if one has remaining miles left in a Frontier account and is intent on using them even after a market has been deleted, then one might have to be very flexible and consider driving to the next nearest F9 station or fly to one airport and then fly an F9 route as two separate trips.

e.g. Since it cut ILG-DEN and now offers no west trips from the TTN/ILG/PHL area, I'm looking to do a PHL-ATL with and ATL-DEN and return DEN-ATL with ATL-PHL (or TTN). The fares are low anyways and I have awards to make 4 legs work. Or, I could travel down to DCA/IAD area to fly to DEN/LAS/West, but prefer not dealing with that traffic.

Quoting mariner (Reply 190):
There are a lot of places on sale today for $39, and I don't really see the point of selling themselves as low-fare airline unless they offer low fares.

True, but routes are getting cut in short notice, and these are routes that supposedly had high load factors. It might be a concern for customers if discounted fares are offered every day in a month (using March as an example which is not too far off), even during a sale special.

I also noticed the one of the most stable routes, DCA-DEN at 3x daily, never has discounted fare specials. IAD-TPA was frequently being discounted as a contrast and it got the sudden cut.

[Edited 2015-02-05 07:52:07]
 
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 195):
I also noticed the one of the most stable routes, DCA-DEN at 3x daily, never has discounted fare specials. IAD-TPA was frequently being discounted as a contrast and it got the sudden cut.
DEN-DCA has always been a well performing route. A long time ago Jeff Potter said that all he wanted for Christmas was more DCA slots.

But did IAD-TPA have high load factors? I don't know and I'd be mildly surprised if it did.

IAD was always going to be problematic, it has a history for failure for airlines other than United and even United couldn't keep IAD-FLL going.

Many - here - decided from the git-go that IAD would never work - there is a tendency for some to look for failure on a.net - and jumped on some of the cuts as proof of that.

They may yet be right, I don't know.

What is infinitely more interesting, to me, is that several IAD routes do seem to working and that MSP, CVG and MEM are slated to come back for summer. I'm a bit surprised about MEM, but not about STL. STL was a dog from day one of booking to both IAD and TTN. Yet STL seems to do well on other routes.

IAD-MSP doesn't surprise me (nor TTN-MSP) because it was obvious that MSP was a good booker for both from the start - I singled out IAD-MSP here, before it actually flew. And here's that other anomaly - again - peak frequency on IAD-FLL appears to be late February/early March, rather than the more obvious late March and spring break.

I think - only think - I know why IAD-UST didn't work, but given the apparent strength of TTN-UST, (some $500 round-trips and more) I'm not surprised they gave IAD-UST a shot.

It seems to me - and I'm only a distant observer - that some routes react well to the ULCC concept, or Frontier's version of it, and some don't.

I don't know why this is and it's only a theory, I can't prove it. I don't know why folk are surprised when obviously seasonal routes go seasonal, except perhaps in the timing. I don't know what the full summer schedule will bring when it is announced. I don't know what will happen when the fleet is sorted out (and the new seats). I don't know how the reworking of the Apple contract will pan out.

I don't have any answers, or not many.

So anyone can tell me they do know why, and all I can say is that they may be right. I don't know and it isn't in my nature to seek out failure. In my much more ephemeral - and ruthless - business, optimism is our bread and butter, sometimes literally, as it is for me now.

mariner

[Edited 2015-02-05 10:52:24]
aeternum nauta
 
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 192):
Just got an email, effective March 7th, miles expire after 6 MONTHS of inactivity. I know this will start the Frontier bashing race to the bottom comments, but if you don't fly 2 times a year are you really a frequent flyer?

It could be worse: Spirit miles expire after 3 months of inactivity. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see this happen with EarlyReturns at some point soon. It doesn't really matter though: I doubt either Spirit or Frontier honestly cares all that much about retaining frequent fliers because they compete on price, price, price. Even if they did care, in the case of F9, the never-ending route roulette makes it difficult to rely on them having the service that you might need.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 195):
one might have to be very flexible and consider driving to the next nearest F9 station or fly to one airport and then fly an F9 route as two separate trips.

As I I spend more time in Tennessee these days and less in Alaska. My closest F9 station is BNA; fifty five miles away. With a considerable drive TYS 225-ish miles from me would get me to DEN seasonally; F9 at BNA still gets me there daily if I want to go. MEM which is four hour drive from me would get me to IAD seasonally. In the other direction there is STL a 265 drive which gives me a few more opportunities including MCO, DEN and LAS non-stop; and a handful of other connections (some seasonal) in Florida and Mexico. God forbid If I had to to F9 at SEA. From Juneau that's about 900 miles as a crow flies. They've axed SEA down from five if not six daily to twice daily. SEA-CLE is also offered.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
masseybrown
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RE: New Frontier Part 49

Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:39 am

According to DoT reports for the first nine months of 2014 Frontier had revenue of $1,170 billion (1,012 in 2013) and net income of $103.5 million (9.1 in 2013).

Looks like the changes are working.

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